NickJ

Not saying SC is a good manager, not saying a crap manager, but IF he's a crap manager he's OUR crap manager, so get behind him and the players unless you WANT division 4 football. The Hall of Shame:

I was being generous to SOD as I included all games until SC took over but if you exclude the game where none of them were (Preston away) it's 31 conceded in 18 games at 1.72 per game, and so SOD record even worse. It wasn't intended to be a smug comment it was an observation that the poster was attempting to "prove" his point with "facts" which were not correct. Likewise, I wasn't trying to say which is the most appropriate basis of measurement - I simply responded to the poster's inaccurate reference as to how many places we are from the bottom.

Another with the "present something as fact and to hell with whether its correct or not" bug then. SOD's last 10 games also yielded 10 points. What is more, what is significant about 10? SC's last 12 have given us 16. You should have gone for last 2, that's only one point from 6, hell we are well and truly ******. Why not choose a random sequence of games to prove any point. We only picked up one point in January, we are down. Hang on forget that we just started February with two wins and a draw. No, its ok to rip into SC again now, a home draw and an away defeat. What is more an ABYSMAL away defeat - and the manager says he's a Winner! What a goon. I notice we haven't beaten a team with the letter "k" in its name all season, should the board be giving SC the dreaded vote of confidence? And what is this honeymoon period then, that's what all managers get given do they, like a signing on clause in their contract. So why don't we just change managers every 10 games, would we get the honeymoon effect 5 times a season? Why didn't Gary Johnson get it? Somebody should alert Lansdown to this, maybe an appeal to the FA and we can get those points we should have had then, now?

Correction. After several years studying the tide and the stars and the wind direction, and planting a forest in order to eventually build a ship - SOD would have sailed round and round the island.

Not "spinning statistics". Facts are facts. The facts are SC's record is better than SOD's. Anything else is opinion. I'm not expressing opinion, just facts. Not sure your desert island analogy is a fact, though judging by 20 passes strung along the back followed by a 50 yard punt from a centre half, I suspect he would indeed have studied the tide for several months and built a raft - and then swum straight into the sharks.

Once again misleading and/or inaccurate "facts" - When SC took over we were one from bottom and 4 points from bottom - we are now three from bottom and 7 points from bottom. - Of the 14 teams played, we are still to play 4, results against 9 have been the same, one better and NONE worse - Under SOD our solid defence conceded 32 goals in 19 games, an average of 1.68 per game, whereas its 23 goals in 14 under SC, an average of 1.64 per game In all seriousness, if you want to quote "facts", it would be helpful if you did as I have, do the maths first.

Full marks for perseverance but wrong again. SC has 17 points from 14 games which pro rata is 56 over a full season and comfortably enough to stay up. Unfortunately he is still clawing us away from the position he inherited, unless you think he is somehow to blame for SOD's record which incidentally was a pro rata equivalent of 36 points and relegation by a country mile. Or to put it another way, SC accumulates 55% more points per game than SOD. Other than the "we would have won a game eventually" argument, I fail to see how anyone can criticize SC yet defend SOD.

Not meant to be semantic. Depends on how you are defining coach. I see it as out on the training pitch, teaching, tactics maybe. Management on the other hand is people skills, leadership, inspirational qualities. If SOD was good at both we wouldn't have been headed for a second relegation.

Yes and after 3 games in 1976/77 we were second in the old First Division - what a lost opportunity. In fact weren't we top after 11 minutes of this season? Not in name but think you will find one of his roles was to manage. If not the board sacked the wrong man. Wouldn't agree or disagree with any of that none of it is any part of my point. It's just your opinion and at least you haven't resorted as many others have, of hammering OUR manager with counter productive personal insults.

No he wasn't.

No, he was asked which English coaches he admired. There is a difference, and SOD may well be a good coach, but demonstrated that for us he was not a good manager. It should also be said that earlier in the interview Rogers also mentioned Harry Redknapp as somebody he greatly admired as a manager.

But in terms of this thread all he has said is, he's a winner, and if he's a winner, that means we are too. I (a) don't see what SC has ever done to deserve such hostility and (b) believe it is in our interests to support him.

Why would you feel the need to say that?

When I expressed an opinion that O'Driscoll would not succeed, I expressed that opinion without personal insults, without wishing he was gone. I also said that I hoped he would prove me wrong. Big difference. Whether O'Driscol would have been successful given time we will never know for sure. Its easy to say he would have been successful eventually, because you can never be proved wrong. The fact is that in 40 games he was the least successful manager we have ever had, thus at the point of his departure vindicating my original opinion. I have never said Cotterill will be successful because he "stays late". What I have said is that I know he works extremely hard, so for that and the fact he is on OUR SIDE he should be given support. If people want to say in their opinion he will fail, I think that's fine, its just an opinion. But the constant personal insults form some from day one is out of order, embarrassing, and counter productive.

On this site or ziderheads, can't remember which, I not only said O'Driscoll would not be a success, but explained my reasons. On ziderheads at the beginning of August when most were saying we'd either go up automatically or play offs or mid-table at worse, I said O'Driscoll would take us down again.

Luckily for us all, I am never wrong. I said from day one SOD would be a disaster and so it proved - even though like you I constantly said I hoped he'd prove me wrong, not that that was ever going to happen. Its a simple equation, workers look to leaders for leadership and inspiration. That doesn't mean being loud, some of the best leaders do so in a quietly effective way. But SOD is simply not a leader. I don't know what happened at Sheffield as I wasn't there however Sheffield were always going to improve after appointing Clough and I have seen enough to know that results will be better under this manager than the previous one. But then that's also not a very difficult prediction.

This 1 loss in 7 that you like to speak of included 3 draws, a home FA Cup game against Dagenham & Redbridge, and was preceded by 14 league games without a single victory. And that was just this season. I could put up a very strong mathematical case to demonstrate that things were not, in fact, being turned around but then, so could anybody that isn't selective with the facts. Plus, I have never been so bored watching football than under the SOD era.

Not sure I worded the original post that clearly, but to clarify. Looking at our home fixtures, most are against lower placed teams so yes I can see us only losing one or two and not impossible we could go unbeaten. Away, as I said, and like you I agree, Peterboro will stuff us unless they've regressed a lot since the home game and/or we've improved massively, but other than that we play a lot of teams who are not much different to us, from what I saw of them in the home games. So it would only take a small improvement in form and confidence to potentially see quite a big improvement in results. Yet this forum is full of threads that give the impression our fans don't want that to happen because its much more fun slagging off the manager and players.

Yes, but the difference is Cotterill has been hammered by a significant minority since the day he arrived, mainly if not exclusively by those who bought into SOD's rhetoric about long term player development. Those people have expressed disappointment at SOD being sacked, that's fair enough its their opinion, but they have gone further than that with insults of Cotterill which have been personal, unnecessary, and unfounded. In response, others have come to Cotterill's defence and in doing so have inevitably compared Cotterill's record here with SOD's. The out and out hostility from some towards Cotterill, who I have to repeat is on OUR SIDE, while he is here and trying to do a job for us, is IMO unforgivable and far less understandable than criticism of SOD who is no longer here.

Under Cotterill we have picked up 11 points from 7 home games, not brilliant but not a complete disaster either. Away from home, we have only lost at Wolves, Brentford and Sheffield, where most of us wouldn't have expected anything anyway. Of the 13 games left, I can see us going unbeaten or close to it at home and only one away - Peterboro - where I would be surprised if we picked up anything, based on the home game against them. I may be wrong, but if not this thread and some of the contributors will look a bit sad, and in any case the constant sniping from day one at a bloke who is on OUR SIDE is embarrassing.

Yes I stand corrected Harry, I'm a big fan of Pack, I had it in my mind you weren't. But google "otib Harry Pack" puts me right there! Its just I'm so used to us having different opinions - ie me right you wrong - I just naturally assumed you thought Pack was shite! Get yourself on that bus to Shropshire mate I'm holding a seat for you.

Thank goodness SC did what you thought he should have done Harry!

Ha yes similarly much as I didn't like SOD always said hoped he'd prove me wrong. Seriously considered going up tonight, only the tube strike put me off, credit to a certain young lad who I know is up there, especially as he rates Cotterill even less than you !! Yes there are a few spaces for Shropshire, sent out details by email so far and relied on others to forward so clearly you have it, don't have yours - PM it to me and I will send on further details.

Think you may have also said you don't rate Pack mate! Or Cotterill !! Lets see.

Any entertainment under O'Negative was in spite, not because of him. I'll see you with the games you mention and raise you with the home games against Shrewsbury, Colchester, Sheff Utd, Brentford, Crawley, all of which were dire. The home games against Oldham, Peterborough, Bradford and Wolves were entertaining purely because the opposition played decent football and we didn't. I personally don't want bollocks about how it will take 5 years to learn how to be a club playing the right way, I could be dead by then. O'Dozy was sending this club to sleep and I cannot fathom how anybody could defend him!! The ball is now being zipped around under Cotterill with purpose. Whether its bluff and purpose, at least the bloke is having a go.