NickJ

With respect, there isn't a subjective definition of vitriol. It means what the English language says it means. I say he is a blagger, that is my opinion, and again I would ask what word you suggest I use which conveys the same message which isn't (in your opinion) vitriolic. It seems to me that the LJ defenders have themselves descended to sledging of posters who have expressed perfectly reasonable non vitriolic criticisms.

As I pointed out to @Leveller a few posts up, there appears to be a misundertanding of the word vitriol. A few people seem to have taken criticism of any kind as vitriol. Your posts are not vitriolic, neither are mine, nor are the vast majority on here, as defined by the word vitriol. Saying he's a crap manager or was a crap player, is not vitriol. To suggest he benefitted at Bristol City from nepotism (player) and mysterious favourtism (manager) is not vitriol. There would need to be an element of gratuitous malice. Words such as blagger, fraud, charatan, inept, incompetent - for those who have tried to say otherwise, they are not malicious and therefore they are not vitriolic. What is obvious from this thread and others I have seen on Sunderland and Hibs (I do, as clearly do many others on this thread, take an unexplainably perverse interest in his career) is that the vast majority of commentators think he is a crap manager for all sorts of reasons, and he is widely ridiculed. I'd say that many on here defending him do so from a sense of perceived unjustice, which is very laudable, but I could list a page or more of examples why he is ridiculed, and I really do not understand how anyone who isn't really taken very seriously can hope to succeeed in management of any type.

Well, let's start with one I have used, blagger. It's my opinion. What word would you suggest that conveys the same message but isn't (in your opinion) vitriolic?

Vitriol would include abusive or malicious language. Words such as blagger, charlatan, inept, incompetent, aren’t vitriolic they are simple assessments and/or opinions.

Saw that inteview, Wilbs was careful what he said but plainly thought LJ was not someone he could take seriously. I've heard, and heard of, other players take the piss also. He's a blagger and doesn't in general command respect as a football manager, because he is is the reincarnation of David Brent. Blamed losing 3 league games at Hibernian to inferior opposition on "fixture congestion", caused by a "European run" which involved beating a team from Andorra and another from a small Swiss town. There are 2 teams in Scotland "bigger" than Hibs, and 2 others more less the same, and yet he managed to lose more games than he won during around 50 games in Scotland, despite being given, by their standards (where have we heard this before), a transfer budget which far exceeded previous managers. Measured by win ratio, his most successful period as a manager was at Sunderland - where with the resources of that club in division three Mike Bassett would have got them promotion. And yet Sunderland sacked him while they were in the play-off positions. Why? It came immediately after a 6-0 defeat, but there was more to it than that. Wherever he goes, he's an unusually divisive figure, but judging by what I've read, mainly disliked and/or ridiculed. How can somebody possibly be a successful manager under those circumstances? If Fleetwood are mad enough to gve him the job, they will probably be relegated, or he will be sacked before that happens. I'd like to say that will then be the end of it, but he will pop up again at somewhere like Newmarket having bamboozled some unfortunate non league chairman, still convinced he's a future England manager in waiting.

Well that’s not correct, I’ve all along been against the model and the structure implemented by Steve Lansdown. It’s ridiculous - you’re Steve Lansdown

With a 35% win percentage

They didn’t love him they just stopped posting stuff, waiting for the inevitable next bad run. Skimming through it, I’d say in the few days prior to your post and ever since, 80% want him out and over half of them are posts which are a mixture of hatred and ridicule. It’s a repeat of what happened here and at Sunderland, I don’t think I’ve ever seen such vitriolic comments aimed so consistently at a manager. To quote some of the Hibs comments, slaver (Scottish slang look it up), charlatan, fraud, David Brent, clown, imbecile, imposter, that’s just the one word comments then you get comments just as you did here and at Sunderland the players don’t like him. Fairly sure he once said the only thing his dad was good at was man management, the irony and the sheer stupidity. it’s really interesting seeing so many supposedly intelligent people fooled by the blather and then take so long to see it for what it really is.

But played him full back every game in the promo season wtf?

So we’ve overtaken Carlisle?

Who have we overtaken?

I understand that, but personally I'd rather support the local businesses many of which offer quality products but still - due to VAT, rates, cost of living crisis, etc - still struggle to make a decent profit. Money into the club just means paying very well paid footballers being paid even more. Just my perspective. Fair comment, dont know which entrance you use but the Clarks van outside Ashton Park is always an option and is cheaper, better (in my opinion) quality, and you rarely have to wait longer than a couple of minutes.

Don't understand why anyone would get so irate at crap products - anyone had one of those awful hot dog things, I did when desparate one game - being unavailable at Ashton Gate when there are literally dozens of quality pubs, bars, restaurants and takeaways within walking distance of the ground. Is it actually that difficult to go 2 hours without a drink or a snack?

Have tried very hard to stay away from his thread, had many a diasgreement about LJ in the past. Nevertheless, Robbored is getting slated, deservedly so for some things, but not deservedly for pointing out that somehow or another, Lee Johnson was constantly selected ahead of unarguably better players. When Johnson got injured towards the end of the 2007/08 season, Gary Johnson would have been desperate to start him in the final, but was sensible enough, after the Palace play off games, to realise that had he dropped Carle or Noble, or Elliott, and we'd lost, both Johnsons would have been hammered for it. The travesty was the Orr injury and Gary Johnson's desperation to get his son on the pitch. The obvious substitution was Vasko on and Carey to right back. Unfortunately bringing Johnson on and moving Elliott - who let's not forget had been named as the central midfielder in the divisions team of the season - to right back was ridiculous. It took away the very essence of what had made us so difficult to beat, something which to be fair to Johnson Senior he had achieved by recognizing and bringing out previously underrated qualities from Elliott. I'm fairly sure I'm right in saying that Gary's loyalty to his son is what was the catalyst for the incident at Plymough and ultimately cost him his job, which is a shame because after Cotterill, Johnson was the best manager we'd had since Alan Dicks. I will never forget turning up at Barnsley following a midweek win where Johnson had been left out, to see Johnson on the pitch and Hartley on the bench. Explained by Johnson Senior as due to our "rotation policy", a phrase not heard at Bristol City before or since. Yes he could play a short pass - usually sideways or bacwards - but thats about all he could do and you have to ask the question, when could you ever remember him making a significant cotribution. A goal, an assist, a killer pass, a goal saving tackle, a brillant cross, a mazy run, anything to make it difficult for the opposition. Being the "cog" that keeps the ball moving sideways and backwards is not that difficult and I had to laugh at one of the comments above "had exceptional vision, he was on a different wave length to a lot of our players." ? There's no way he would have played so many Championship games if his dad hadn't been manager, possibly none at all. As for management, the biggest skill Lee Johnson has is promoting the "Lee Johnson" brand, and that's about it. Have had a look at the Hibernian forums this week, and apart from the personal comments seen many times before - "David Brent", "slaverer" (apparently Scottish slang for someone who talks gibberish) - "coward" "smug" are just some of the politer ones - the talk is eaxtly as it used to be on here and indeed at Sunderland. Tactically inept. Throwing players under buses. Results not aligned with being given more money to spend that any other manager previously. Fraud. The thing is, David Brentisms aside, he is articulate and seems capable of talking intelligent people into believing that not only is he the man for the job, but also should be given almsot unlimited funds to spend in order to do that job. When LJ was a Bristol City player and manager it used to anger me, but now I just think, good luck to him, it's a free market economy and he's managed to achieve not only a well paid Championship playing career with extremely limited ability for that level, but now also a well paid managerial career with extremely limited credentials.

Must have been a child genius mate you weren’t even 2 years old for Brazil 1970??

Very late reply sorry but spudski is incorrect and KITR is correct. I have been very critical of Steve in the past but on this a very supportive post, and have noticed others similar. Anyway Scott is still with us, don't know whats going on behind the scenes but if he's still here start of the season SteveL will have done a good job of not encouraging a sale.

Correct whoever screwed up those deals was the real villain. It wasn't just the Maguire deal, Gray also. Both were agreed and so far as I am aware it isn't the case that those players didn't want to come. After some knobhead screwed up those deals, it was only then that we went after Gayle, but from memory he was the player that didn't want to come. Still pisses me off after all this time that Cotts, having saved us from relegation to L2 and then the amazing promotion season, was shafted and we appointed somebody with zero credentials to replace him.

Was very encouraged to hear that. The vast majority on here seem to think Scott leaving in the summer is inevitable and salivating over the thought that little Bristol City will be selling a player for £25M. Scott's got 2 years left on his contract, we don't have to sell, certainly not this summer. He will still be woth £25M in 2024. As Steve said, there are a group of young lads here, they're mates and having fun, why not stay and achieve something together. They could all be playing in the Premiership in 2024, with Bristol City. We have a situation here where Pearson is entering the final year of his current contract, has done a remarkable job of recognizing the talent of a crop of youngsters. Keep them all together, manager and the squad, for at least one more season, and see what happens.

Cotts doing pretty well too, 23rd when he took over at Shrewsbury, currently knocking on the play off door. Hadn't been able to make up my mind until recently about whether Pearson still had it in him, but I have now. Like Cotts he's turned us around on a relative shoe string, with very decisive management decisions, and like Cotts he deservedly commands respect from the players with his very straightforward no nonsense style. Paticularly like the way he's given so many young players their chance and stuck with the best ones.

Me too

??and there was me given previous repostes I remember you for thinking it was pure sarcasm

No problem it’s my view stalker what’s yours

A Norwegian playing for Man City. Really couldn’t give a **** what he’s going to be

Precisely.