JoeAman08

22 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

You make it sound like we weren’t trying to sign him?  As for position, a lot of OTIB said “he ain’t a LB he can’t defend” so with Pring our best LB where do you think he was being signed to play?  As a high earner he wasn’t coming to share minutes.  Was he?

Idk but not sure he better than Pring at LB. Don’t think he is a good enough attacking player to beat out Mehmeti and Bell either. So must have been to share minutes? I don’t think we were going to flat out drop Pring, Mehmeti and Bell. There were minutes to fill from Dasilva’s departure and that is about it. 
 

Have thought maybe we might drop the one behind the striker for maybe more tradition 3 in a 433. That would maybe open up minutes for him there too as a LCM. 
 

Take out the name and history. Would have been signing a 29 year old former standout at that this level but not quite good enough for the step up. One who has come off a rough season where fitness was an issue. I think many would find it odd we are looking to replace Pring with that profile. Also think most would want their left winger to not be a LB even if an attacking one. 
 

Also, don’t think earning has anything to do with minutes. He’d have had to beat someone out so fair enough if he did. As long as someone fits the wage structure I don’t think the number matters that much to Pearson. 

Unless Pring is leaving I never got the Bryan signing. All the talk of playing in midfield or on the wing seemed silly too. Yes the versatility is there but not sure signing basically a career left back for the left wing would be something anyone was interested in if it was any other player. Not saying wouldn’t have him back but he wouldn’t be first choice for me on either left side position as we currently stand. 
 

As someone else said, Roberts seems a much more sensible signing. Left side of the defence versatile and with Atkinson out covers us there and behind Pring which we don’t have an option currently. Still allows you to sign Currie if you really thought highly of him. 
 

We talk about pathways and all that but we sign most to 3 year deals. Naismith, Weimann and James we all need to look at as being replaced in the next year or two. Football moves fast and a signing today that looks strange may look like a miracle just 6-12 months down the line. What I like is we are being linked with good players. Players with experience in terms of games played and versatile but all in all proven.

Mcrorie ready to take the next step from Scottish League to English championship.  Dickie arguably took his step and regressed. Still a great age and ready to get back to that level. Roberts has good experience in L1. Was in a good setup at Brighton and ready to take the next step in his career. 
 

These feel like less clubs in the bags and punts that they used to be. More measured and sure. That is are target we go and get it done. You are a bit unsure then we move to the next. We definitely feel more professional than we have in a long time. Probably Steve Cotterill. Of course summers are a bit more boring not being linked with 30 players from 7 different leagues 

43 minutes ago, bcfcnick said:

I think the issue is that neither Pring or Vyner have signed new contracts.  With just one year to go on their contracts, I think the focus on defensive signings includes some forward planning in case they don't sign.

I hope they both sign but, just as QPR's hand was forced with Dickie, we are in a similar situation with both Pring and Vyner.  I'd be really disappointed to lose Pring so, fingers crossed, he will sign. I think he could play in the Premier League with his defensive and attacking attributes.  Vyner would also be a loss and they are both good athletes as well as excellent defenders. 

They are both probably waiting to weigh up options but I suspect they will either sign before the new season or move on. The Club won't want that uncertainty within the group or rely on bargain basement transfer fees in January.  

It is a great point and what I come to say. Both would probably be sensible signings for a team like Luton or possibly sides coming down. Pring especially can see bigger clubs liking him. Not super gifted technically but athletically you won’t find many better. Add in his work rate I think you’ll have suitors. 

29 minutes ago, Spike said:

I went to Fevs Football Analytics and looking at his analytics on him I think you could be right about the QPR fans, although the "only play in a back 3" concerns me as I was hoping we'd moved away from a back 3 so I'm hoping they are wrong. That aside the stats look good to me, he's tall, and has experience, I 'm really hoping it is just sour grapes from the QPR fans.


 

19 minutes ago, Dredd said:

Could we be moving back to a 3? Would also suit Joe Bryan? Tanner might need some adjusting to it but it also suits Wilson

I don’t think so. We said the same about Vyner. We probably said it about Pring. They both played very well in a two for large portions of the season. Still depends on whats in front of you and what you are being asked to do imo. 

3 hours ago, Tinmans Love Child said:

For me the more teams competing the better for us, cause that means more teams beating each other and the division is closer, the last thing you want is 4/5 teams running away with it cause we wouldn't be one of those 5, but 10 teams going for it then I can defo see us in that group and it's all to play for

I’d argue it is what it was this year. The top 12 all capable of beating anyone outside Burnley on their day. Think next season there may be a few Burnleys. We will see always say it and often doesn’t happen but can’t help but think the top 6 will be harder to crack next season for any non PP clubs. 

2 hours ago, spudski said:

That's how I see it as well. 

Imo...next season will be one of the strongest Championships in a long time. 

It's going to be harder to make the top 6 imo. 

We've been improving and playing some good football this season. We will undoubtedly improve again and become stronger...however...I think we will need to improve to even keep mid table. 

Hopefully we have a season where other teams under achieve. 

Imo...mid table on paper would be a respectable. 

Top 6 reliant on us over achieving and others under achieving. 

I just hope if the season does play out how I feel it might, that fans don't see us as not improving. 

Sadly the top 6 hope has been dangled again recently in NPs interview. 

As we've seen before in previous seasons...if it's mentioned that their is belief we have the ability for top 6, it's used against them if they don't achieve it. 

 

Read this after my first response and probably sums up what I think but better. We could finish on 60 points next season which is barely better but it would probably be a much greater achievement. 
 

Top 6 is always our ambition and probably 20 teams in the leagues ambition. That expectation always comes from the top though and idk why they keep saying it. No good comes from it imo. 
 

For us next season, McRorie and Bryan would be a hell of a start. However, can only see us being a real threat if Scott stays and takes another step in his development along with some additions. I’d probably take the 10m hit on his fee for another season. Should still be able to fetch 10-15m for him with a season left on his deal. I think he is level headed enough to still play at a high level not getting a move this summer. Of course not saying turn down 25m if we get the offer but I would be very firm in negotiations. He is good enough to carry a team to bigger things at this level imo if he takes that next step and adds the goal threat. 

19 minutes ago, RedM said:

I think I'm more worried about Boro and Sunderland being left in the Championship as well as the 3 coming down, they will be strong teams next year

Someone said can see all 3 coming straight back down and it was pointed out that it gets said every year and rarely happens. 
 

The championship being stronger next season also gets said every year. It is hard not to come to that conclusion for next season though isn’t it?
 

Southampton are full of young promising players already. They are gonna bring in 50m or more in sales most likely on top of that. So they will be able to retool. 

Leicester maybe less worried about but hard to look at them and think they will struggle. Will have plenty after sales to rebuild. Leeds and Everton also in this category. Forest have had a hell of an effort but if they come down I wouldn’t fear them per se. 
 

Wouldn’t sleep on Ipswich either being competitive. Ashton jokes aside they will acquire talent. Peterborough always an exciting attacking side too if they come up. 
 

Nice to know it can be done for sure but you also get seasons where the PP clubs dominate the top 6. I also don’t think we’ll get the same Norwich and Watford sides. Next season maybe only be 1-2 spaces for non PP clubs and I wouldn’t put us at the top of that list quite yet

20 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Is he a centre back or a defensive midfielder- or both.

Thinking if he is right footed and a CB could it be a sign that Kalas is definitely off.

I am hoping it is a view to midfield but think fee suggests CB? CBs tend to fetch higher fees imo than holding midfielders. 
 

Also, I like versatility but I hope we have a position in mind. We have seen it with Vyner I think. His versatility stagnated his growth a bit imo. He started off at rb for us in some games early on. Plymouth was stellar at CB. Rotherham back to RB. Then a year pretty much in midfield. Then right of a 3 and now settling in a pair. I mean you can argue all that has made him better too but I do think consistency in one spot has helped him an awful lot this season. So I keep that in mind with versatile players. Yes is nice but if a vital part of a team rather someone stay in their position and sort out the problem another way. 

What I don’t get was why Mitro gets an 8 match ban but nothing happened to Bruno when he did similar to lino when they got battered against Liverpool. It needs to be consistent for me that is all. If 8 match is appropriate just make that the minimum for first time offences. Double it each incident after too. Just be consistent

It is getting to the point now where I think just value him at 30m and let it play out. You get the sense we are getting much closer to being a playoff type side. If we can add 3 new starting players(imo cb cm and rw) we have a solid enough squad to be compete for playoffs with Scott continuing to improve and staying. 
 

As for a loan back, I can’t see it at the prices being quoted. Newcastle will be in Europe next season plus wanting to compete in domestic cups again. I don’t think they’ll be spending 25m to loan him out. Perhaps Anderson on loan to sweeten it which I’d be fine with but imo no chance Scott leaves his next club in the summer. 

7 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

Tanner did have Foden & silva to mark

Oh no doubt. Just thought in possession maybe he left the gap a bit big at times and didn’t give Vyner an option. Vyner compounded that a couple times by forcing it. Didn’t mean it to come off so harsh on Tanner. Everyone was up against someone who is 10-20x better paid to play the same game. So was always going to be tough. All in all we gave them a hell of an effort for 70 minutes imo. 3-0 looks a bit harsh on us in the end imo

7 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

Tanner did have Foden & silva to mark

Oh no doubt. Just thought in possession maybe he left the gap a bit big at times and didn’t give Vyner an option. Vyner compounded that a couple times by forcing it. Didn’t mean it to come off so harsh on Tanner. Everyone was up against someone who is 10-20x better paid to play the same game. So was always going to be tough. All in all we gave them a hell of an effort for 70 minutes imo. 3-0 looks a bit harsh on us in the end imo

I thought Tanner was poor and that contributed to Vyner not having his best game. He still made a few poor decisions but probably his first “bad” game this year? Considering who we were up against find it harsh to criticise

4 hours ago, steviestevieneville said:

You really don’t take into account what’s gone on behind the scenes do you . Even in our change of shape recently He’s done everything for a reason . Let him get on with what he’s good at which is managing our club . 

I don’t think I am stopping him from that. I mean I can’t be more complimentary about off the pitch. Say it every time. Fact still remains he is getting results and performances from players that were here last season and the start of this one. The team was always better than the performances that were being offered up. There was no secret formula. Playing players where they are most comfortable in a formation they are comfortable. Our availability has been good this season so there isn’t really an excuse for me. Some of you have this really odd obsession with NP too. Right or wrong he’d have been gone in 90% of efl clubs and probably this one if our finances would have allowed it. Great he has finally sorted it out and I am enjoying it. Opinion about the 18 months before is still the same tho

26 minutes ago, ExiledAjax said:

I don't think we're arguing about everything. Yes our fortunes (assume you mean results) could have improved earlier - because the signs and numbers were there to show that we had improved performances. We just needed the last bit of fine tuning, a bit of fortune, a good wind. We've had those things in 2023, and results have followed this time.

I don't think it's fair to compare the starting XI now to two years ago. Two years ago Vyner, O'Leary and Pring were 23, raw, error-prone, far less experienced. Two years ago Scott was 17. That's 4 of the starting XI who were nowhere near their current level. As they have improved, so has our team, and so have performances.

The healthier organisation you talk of - that's another one of the signs I refer to as showing that improvement was happening and was coming.

I just don't think it should take a run of 12 unbeaten games to convince people of improvement. It was there long before the run of results.

For me the performances weren’t close. Rarely seemed to put complete performances together now they are routine. 
 

The 2 year comment was to point out that the squad had more in it than was getting. Of course players are better because we have a young squad. NP gets credit but there is also natural progression. Plenty saying wait until he can spend bigger fees etc. Doing it largely with the tools he had last season is all I mean. Not saying the 4 at the back should have been this fluid all last season and into this. No, just mean he could have done this sooner this season and perhaps we’d have 5-6 more points on the board and more of a playoff contender.
 

Not everything needs to happen right away but football changes quickly and we maybe missed a small chance here to be a playoff side. I like to think next season could be real exciting but good chance of losing Scott. Money is great but then you have to get replacements and get them settled. We will see. I thought NP improved the club more than he did the team until recently. They probably go hand in hand but there will always be a bit of what if for me. 

1 minute ago, ExiledAjax said:

But the signs of improvement were there long before this run in 2023. Results were coming, improvements were measurable and clearly happening. We just needed a few fine tweaks, a couple of personnel changes, some patience, and as we've seen in these last two games, our luck regarding penalties to turn.

I don’t have it in me to argue it really anymore. I just do not agree that the signs were there. Always said it felt like his influence off the pitch was immeasurable. You can feel it from the outside looking in. He had made it a healthier organisation long before this run. The match day performances were lacking and until the switch to 4 at the back we were scraping points together instead of earning them.
 

Felt he could have used the WC break to implement the 4 at the back. Bar Mehmeti, the starting XI yesterday has been here for two years or longer. Feel like our fortunes could have improved much earlier. Even in this run of unbeaten it was a lot of draws until recently. 
 

I know I just ended up arguing anyway. Just it is still my opinion that we had more in the squad then NP was getting from them. Very pleased he is getting the most from them now. 

It isn’t his flair and ability to take players on that surprised me. It is when he has a chance to make a tackle how aggressive he is in those. Or when it is kicked long to him how he bumps the defender that is jumping. Just a few little things that make him more complete than I thought he’d be. 

I still think it took NP too long to get these performances from this set of players. Take into account it started before any new players got here. The form is great but it has probably come too late for a playoff push. Not that is was expected but everyone bar Burnley is truly beatable. 

However, I’ve come around now. The performances are borderline dominant for the most part. 2 months worth as well. We now can win sitting back and countering or even as the higher possession side. 

Him and Sykes offer different things so I don’t mind which one starts. However, if we kept everyone this summer that would be the area I’d like to see strengthened the most from the front 3 and 1 behind

3 hours ago, bpexile said:

I agree with a lot of what you say but I always think of what my dad used to tell me. He said having all the tools doesn't make you a tradesman & I think there's been a lot of learning on both sides (players & management) to get to where players with the "tools" now have the mentality to maintain the level NP requires. He now can play/trust them in positions to best utilise those skills, at the end of the day we/the club are the winners.

Credit must be given to all involved & I think a huge plus has been the hpc where the academy players can train with the team.

COYR's

 

My posts can seem very NP critical and I am. However it doesn’t mean he doesn’t deserve some credit. If you tell me we have a fitter squad I’d agree. Credit to NP. Tell me we have more squad harmony and healthy competition for places I’d agree. Credit to NP.
 

Imo he was getting it very wrong with his persistence in the 352 and some of his personnel decisions. On the pitch is where he should be judged harsher. A few wins and losses either way in this league can really change how you look at yourself but we were in danger of slipping down. The way we were playing there should have been hard questions being asked and there were for a bit. 
 

Again, maybe I am ultimately wrong about NP. Hell I hope so. As you said we/the club are winners. I am enjoying the run and hope it continues. I’d rather enjoy the football and say I was wrong than saying I was right and being in L1. 

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

For example - Performance last week at Preston was not better than several games this season where we’ve failed to get 3 points.

Even today was pretty scrappy for large chunks.  We had a good spell of control in the first half after we scored for 10-15 mins.  Norwich then opened the second half and put us under a lot of pressure.  We then had a spell where we knocked on the door once the subs got themselves into it.  There was a helluva lot of ball being turned over by both sides because spaces were condensed or passing lanes blocked by good structures, therefore teams trying to force it.

Too much emphasis on the result framing the argument of how well we played.

All the talk of fans saying they want the old cliched “free flowing, front foot football and a high press”, “I just want to see attacking football and be entertained”…it’s bollox in the main…the reality is they just want to win and they really like a gritty win.  Which is what today was.  I really enjoyed the game.  Not because we played great football (we did play some at times) but more because we worked our nuts off collectively, and we made it hard for Norwich, who are a decent side.

Today felt like for me the culmination of a lot of hard work in the development of the team…nor is that development over.  There may be several of the same players as earlier this season or last, but they are gradually performing better and better in technical, mental and physical areas.  

I really do disagree with the saying - insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.  In football surely you have to repeat things to get better?  Those stupid little drills with no defenders where someone crosses for our forwards to side foot past the exposed keeper from 8 yards look to benefit nobody, they’re so unlike a real game…yet count the number of goals we’ve scored since the World Cup from those types of cross?

As someone else said, you can look at the stats and perhaps make the case performances are the same. As someone who is at damn near every game, you can feel the change. The fullbacks higher up the pitch than the wingbacks ever were. The front 3 all pressing in unison. The intensity is much higher and generally everyone looks very comfortable in their roles. Every has a job, knows their job and executes it. 
 

You can feel the difference in the atmosphere. It isn’t a results thing. It started with Swansea in the cup. No we may not have possession or loads of shots. The intent and endeavour is now there and it wasn’t early in the season. There are no stats that can quantify it but I guarantee you ask 1000 city fans if it has been more enjoyable since Swansea in the cup, 1000 would say yes.

It isn’t results that get me going. It is intensity and intent. Today was scrappy at times but Norwich looked up for it. We made it scrappy by being aggressive. We didn’t let them get comfortable which has been a theme. Thats the difference I am on about and that came with a switch to 433. 

8 minutes ago, cidered abroad said:

JoeAman, I have always appreciated your comments as I come from an era when apart from what was in the newspapers, we could only discuss what we had seen live at matches. And without slow motion replays.

I suspect that you are like me in that I've gone during this season, from total appreciation to complete negativity and back again. I know not your age but I've seen eight promotions and seven relegations since 1950;and for a couple of months late last year, I seriously considered that we were destined for another drop.

Yet now, after some clearly superb work by Gould, Pearson and Tinnion and the coaches, in the last few months, the win today over a half tidy Norwich team, has given us all, hope for a good future. I go from optimist to pessimist and suspect you may be similar.

It's our club for life. One day we might click as other Third and lower Second Division sides like Bournemouth and Brighton have keep the faith.

Oh don’t get me wrong I am delighted we won and have seemed to turn a corner. I just have an opinion on NP and this run of form hasn’t convinced me this will be the norm going forward. Whether or not I am right or wrong doesn’t matter to me.  Said earlier it has been a lot of fun going to AG the last few weeks and long may it continue. 

2 minutes ago, glynriley said:

How about a manager who has 5 years, an open cheque book and more than unlimited patience..

Eh…?

Who was that? 

7 minutes ago, Percy Pig said:

Performances have not changed. Results have. 

You are interested in results. 

That's fine, but don't make out we haven't deserved more from a lot of games this season. 

We performed like this in the draws against Millwall and Cov. Playing 352. 

We dominated Watford playing 352. 

We had a bad day against WBA. Yeah. We'll have bad days playing 433. That's football. It will forever be so. 

If you don’t think performances are better post 352 I don’t think we can have a serious conversation

50 minutes ago, bpexile said:

I think it was more the case of getting "the tools" up to speed with how he wanted them to perform. 

After 18 months he has done that & we are reaping the rewards of his ideas & standards .

Maybe. I don’t really see it that way. Is Pring really that much better in January than he was in October? Atkinson had a great start to the season got dropped and come back at same level. Vyner has shown when he gets a good run in one position he can perform. Finally playing Wells has helped us massively too. 
 

I am not sitting here trying to be overly negative. Just that one month of results hasn’t swayed me that he is all of a sudden a genius. 

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

I think it’s naive to think that just because players were here that you can just slot them into positions and it works.  It seems clear (to me at least) that Nige has worked heavily on culture and the mental side, and that is a good part of why players like Vyner can now play as a RCB in a back four.  Come on, you only have to see the inconsistent performances and errors in him…even this season (early on).  He’s just one example.  Tanner, are you ignoring his two bad hamstring injuries last season?

I really think you are trying hard tonight to make it so black and white to avoid praising the role Nige has played in the improvement.  It’s like you think change can happen overnight.

I think your post is a poor take on the work he has done.  But that’s your prerogative, as it is to dislike my reply to your post.

He had players to play a back four is debatable…as above who saw Vyner being able to be a leader on a back two?  The first time I thought he’d shown the responsibility to play / lead there was Swansea (h).  Nobody seems to think about how he might’ve played the other six…especially when Wells and Conway were performing so well.  That necessitated a front two.  There are so many little things that may have caused the reason not to change, and then eventually change.

Certainly not alongside the introvert Atkinson (his words).  He said he couldn’t even play Rob in the middle of a three.  Don’t get me wrong he’s sometimes gonna say things with a bit of bullshit license too.

Slot players into positions they have played growing up and during their careers? I have always acknowledged the culture shift under NP. It has always been on a match day that I don’t rate him. I just don’t think there is a way to measure it and I don’t measure as high. Imo the tools have been here to be more consistent in performances. The culture change had been in place for months so why all of a sudden have performances changed? It is putting the right people in the right positions and them gaining confidence. Something that could have been done 15 games ago

22 minutes ago, Engvall’s Splinter said:

How many fixtures have that starting eleven been available for? During periods we’ve missed Atkinson, Tanner, Pring, Sykes & Williams for a variety of reasons. I didnt say injured. 

So does every side. All those players have been available the majority of not only this season but last. He has had the tools to do this for the last 18 months. It has taken him 17 months to figure it out.

I am not buying the he dropped them and now they are better either. Pring, Atkinson and Tanner were all good last season too when given chances. Sykes playing a more natural forward position is now coming into form. 
 

Imo he has complicated things all season. It takes him half the season to settle on who his best XI is. All I am saying is I am not shouting off the roof he is the best manager we ever had because we had a good month. I do however hope he keeps it going. Happy to be “wrong” about NP but who knows what any manager could have done with 24 months and unlimited patience from the owner. 

Just now, Engvall’s Splinter said:

Player availability?  

Who hasn’t been available? A few have missed some here and there but no one in the side today has missed long term with injury or anything