Fontaineofallknowledge

3 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

A worse set of injuries cost the bloke he replaced his job???

Well yes he shouldn't have been sacked either! 

6 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Undoubtedly a player that is missed.  I think we (all) agree on that.

However, yeah-yeah, there’s always a however with me!

What I think it also shows is that even when he does play under Manning, the results still aren’t good enough, ie there are bigger issues than just James’s absence!

Yes but if you add twines absence along with pring being unfit, Sykes being off form and wells not being able to finish his dinner then you can understand what's causing this run

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

I’ll provide the stats with no prejudice, you work your angle, that ok?

Matty James:

Under Pearson:

Played: 13 (1170 mins)

Pts earned whilst on the pitch: 18 (+5)*

Team Goals whilst on the pitch: 15

Team Goals conceded whilst on the pitch: 14

Goals / Assists: 2 / 0

Results without James: P 1 / L1 / Pts 0

Under Fleming:

Played: 1 (90 mins)

Pts earned whilst on the pitch: 3 (+2)*

Team Goals whilst on the pitch: 1

Team Goals conceded whilst on the pitch: 0

Goals / Assists: 0 / 0

Under Manning:

Played: 18 (1252 mins) 14 starts / 4 subs / 4 subbed off

Pts earned whilst on the pitch: 20 (+2)*

Team Goals whilst on the pitch: 16

Team Goals conceded whilst on the pitch: 16

Goals / Assists: 0 / 0

Results without James: P 5 / W 1 / L 4 / Pts 3

+++++

* a formula based on result when entering the pitch and result when exiting, e.g. start game at 0:0, leaves at 1:0, he has effected a change of 1 point (draw) to 3 points (win), therefore he gets +2.

Thanks, he makes a huge difference imo. Positional play is excellent and he's our only midfielder that actually keeps the ball with intelligence. Like Marlon pack used to be-you don't notice him when he's playing but you certainly notice when he's not!

Given age, wage and likely declining appearances I do think it's a tough one and if we can replace with a younger player of similar quality then we should.

but you have backed up my point that his absence is behind the decline in recent performances...

12 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

What makes me laugh is this type of argument:

”Nige was shit”

”Manning is doing no worse than Nige”

Do you have any stats on our record with and without James? I think he's the main factor as opposed to manager..

11 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Totally agree BUT from a position of 35 points from 24 games how did it even get to this position?!! It would take a repeat of Mannings worst run since he's been here (3 points from 8 games) to see us even get close to the drop from here imo. In simple terms that would still require Sheffield Wednesday to get a four wins and a draw in five of their last eight, Huddersfield and Birmingham to win half their remaining games plus QPR, Plymouth and Stoke to get three wins and a draw in half their remaining games. Blackburn would also need three wins or two wins and three draws from eight. You would have to expect that at least two of those will fall short on that, simply based on their record so far. If that was on the cards (e.g. we lose the next three and the wheels are coming off) he will be fired before then anyway. If that happened I would back Andy King to win one game out of the last five with three at home.

The one way I see us in genuine trouble is if we fail to win another game this season (and lose at least 6 of them).

Do you reckon king could get us into the playoffs if we appoint him now?

If he wins the next 3 games are we then saying we want to offer him a longer contract?

Really is an echo chamber on here and doesn't reflect the view of an average fan. How has it come to losing a few games meaning you need to be sacked!? Would you have all sacked fergie in his early United days?

1 minute ago, Numero Uno said:

And no real money. Manning took over a bang average squad and is turning it into a relegation standard squad. The fact you are happy to ignore 12 points out of the last 42 as just some kind of minor blip is crazy imo.

Its poor but I understand the context and believe in giving a manager at least one pre season (which are huge with squad building)

28 minutes ago, Numero Uno said:

Because it’s 14 games ago and we’ve picked up 12 points in that time. It’s not cherry picking when people point out you’ve been crap for nigh on three months or a third of a season. Many managers get fired for less. It also covers this year to date.

On the other hand if you want to use 26 points from 23 games to make a point what point are you making? As for injuries didn’t the previous regime with a better record this season have MORE injuries?

The previous regime that had 6 windows and 3 pre seasons to shape the squad? More pointless comparisons

43 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

We are bored aren’t we?

since Watford (a), the halcyon day (days???) of Manningball, we can see the decline in our attacking play.

If you look at Build-up (*) attacks, Direct (**) attacks as opposed to other open play attacks from shorter possession phases or set-pieces, we are more effective when we press!  Yet we don’t attempt that, preferring a block more often than not.  Maybe Krause should stop looking at our opponents and look at ourselves!

QPR is the only game where Manning’s approach resulted in more than 2 build-up attacks, 6 in total.  And total open play xg was 0.43!!!

The decline in quality of open play chances is also evident.

Just three times in 14 games have we achieved a match xg of 1.00 from open play in a match.  Some real lowlights in there too!

Then compare to what’s happening at the other end!

I don’t think any of us really need a set of numbers to confirm this, we are seeing it with our eyes.  But there is no hiding from the fact we are regressing.  Do we need more evidence?

sorry, was bored watching Man Utd v Liverpool, although not anymore!!!

+++++

* Build-up attacks - The number of open play sequences that contains 10 or more passes and either ends in a shot or has at least one touch in the box.

** Direct attacks - The number of open play sequences that starts just inside the team's own half and has at least 50% of movement towards the opposition's goal and ends in a shot or a touch in the opposition box.

Why start after Watford-rather arbitrary just to prove your point imo. Also no mention of injuries?

31 minutes ago, Glen hump said:

What were planning on going to league 1 are we 

Nearly impossible from here-teams need to play each other that are down there 

49 minutes ago, Monkeh said:

Then why change manager if you don't expect improvements

Jesus wept do you actually believe the bull you are posting?

We are a much worse team with Manning in charge that is a fact backed up by stats and the majority if fans eyes

Maybe because we are thinking a bit more long term ffs 

7 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Far from naive.  If you can’t see improvement in half a season, in a world where on average a Championship,Sanger does even get one year on average, you’ e tame the wrong approach.

Nige improved underlying “stuff” from about game 3 onwards, when he had enough points to start planning for the next 3 years of his contract.  He sidelined the cosy club, experimented with youngsters, brought in his culture setters and gradually improved us.  Slow progress, yep.  I never felt we were going backwards under Nige.  Maybe he was just ever so convincing.

This is as epic a regression as Rooney at Brum.

Its onky my view, but I see him taking us further backwards.

I still think the manager can carry the rest of the shit show.

Come on Rooney didn't get any good results-manning has had loads! The only similarity with Rooney is that the fans didnt give him a chance because they don't want the previous manager sacked!

3 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

With respect, its rubbish football and you are looking for some sort of purist angle to justify the fact its just not very good.

Fans gave him a shot, we are abysmal to watch.

Compact, distances, blah blah.

We do not score goals. We do not win points.

We lost v Ipswich by the way.

No I just prefer a nuanced view rather than having an agenda 

2 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

That really isn’t the case, it’s the weakest of weak arguments.  You’d expect to see some signs of improvement in the underlying “stuff” by  now, even if results take a while to catch up.  He is making us worse.  Results are worse, underlying “stuff” is worse….trend is downwards.

Bit naive if u expected improvements so quickly. James/twine being out is a huge miss and that needs to be factored in. Can I ask how long it took Nige to improve the 'underlying stuff?'

6 minutes ago, TomThumb84 said:

Im sorry but much of this is nonsense.

He has had loads of time “on the grass”. Including once or twice a week for 90plus minutes where we look like a pub team without the goal threat.

Whats this “control” tactic you speak of? We cannot string a pass together mate.

Out of possession work? By that I guess you mean chasing shadows and conceding territory and goals? Yeah we have got much better at that since Liam The Coach came in.

Terrible appointment, never felt right and never will. 

He's not though has he? Given the programme of games we are either recovering from the last game or preparing for the next one. 
 

Yes we have players that treat the ball like a hot potato-the only player in midfield that can handle the ball is James and he's out. Manning needs players to suit his style-then we will get control.

no I mean players being compact with the correct distances between them to close space-most managers have commended us on this. A good example was the first half vs Ipswich.

Your last sentence explains the problem in a nutshell-the fans were against this appointment from the start so are not giving him a fair crack imo

6 minutes ago, Barrs Court Red said:

Out of interest what do you call tangible improvement?
 

I’ve lumped on to December and I’ll be honest I haven’t really considered what I’d call acceptable at this point.  Being entertained I guess, which is subjective. 
 

 

 

For me it's looking like a team that is clearly well coached to a way of playing. I want to see patterns of play, entertaining interplay and sustained attacks. And I also what to see more character/ leadership to turn those performances into results. If we don't have that by next autumn/winter then he can do one  

The bed wetters need to calm down imo. Was always going to take time to transition from a counter attacking team to one that has control so it's not really a surprise we've had a downturn. Manning has had next to no time on the grass to implement his coaching so has prioritised out of possession work which has largely been good. 
 

let's give him a pre season and a transfer window to try and get a few players that can handle the ball then see what he can do-if we haven't shown a tangible improvement by October then I agree he would need to go.

Stick some new sheets on and calm down!

1 hour ago, Davefevs said:

Not sure if this has gone unnoticed with deadline day.

I love listening to Rob Dickie:

 

Yeah find dickie really insightful! Who is the reporter who came on 2nd, always find he asked really good questions?

2 minutes ago, Glen hump said:

Currently watching ice hockey 

Same-for pucks sake 

It's Taylor Swift I heard 

I think this is a fairly progressive appointment and probably my favoured one based on the shortlist. This is based on him not being exposed (in horse racing terms), brum fans response to his sacking and the way they played at the gate in august.

I also stuck £20 on him at 8/1 so want him appointed for selfish reasons!

Pleasing! Heading to this and then new order in the evening at leeds arena-could be a boozy one

Really enjoyable game that. First half was the best we've played at home for a long time, thought our midfield really won the battle, Sykes looked dangerous and Naismith showed a lot of quality on the ball. We just miss that clinical striker don't we 

2nd half fair play to their manager he made changes and they had the better of it, but we still retained a threat and defended really well.

Overall a great watch and a lot to like about our approach and application! Compare that to brum/Preston where we couldn't string 2 passes together! 

Can someone please send an emergency plumber round to uncle Steve's house? He needs to get those taps turned back on