Edgy Red

1 minute ago, Rob k said:

The players are out there - i know of players recommend to the club we have missed out on which we could have had for peanuts - Ollie Watkins being one 

Of course there is talent out there but any player who shows promise in the 9th tier of English football will already have numerous clubs, much bigger than us, looking at them.

I think we missed a big trick not bringing in 1 or 2 Prem youngsters on loan in the summer.

6 hours ago, Major Isewater said:

What’s the point in paying a Head of Recruitment when we haven’t got any money to bring anyone in? 
 

Spot on... all we ever hear about is the restrictions of FFP and that our hands are tied regarding recruitment, so whats the point in having a team of experts if we can't afford to buy them!

23 minutes ago, Hxj said:

It was never designed to create a level playing field, it was designed to reduce the chances of a club going bust.

Rugby finances are entirely different to those in football.  You also have relatively few top nations and therefore relatively few top leagues, there is relatively low movement between the divisions of each league, and several national teams will only pick from players playing in their national or supra-national league.  The relatively 'closed shop' enables owners to regulate their salary exposures accordingly. It's the same in most US sports where Promotion and relegation are generally unheard of.

However the cap does not cover costs outside actual players (which FFP seeks to regulate) and also carves out exemptions for significant costs.

Oh and the latest Rugby Salary Cap regulations cover 70 odd pages of text.

 

 

So you believe that all clubs are fully adhering to FFP and there is no "manipulation" of the rules?

If FFP is indeed fair and correct then how will Newcastle justify the vast sums that they will inevitably be spending over the next few years?

I quoted Rugby as an example because i feel the salary cap works better than FFP as wages are the biggest expenditure that clubs have and the cap regulates that, however i doubt we will ever see it introduced in Football.

2 hours ago, Hxj said:

There's a huge misconception that FFP is complex and huge myths around FFP.

It's simple and straightforward.  In most seasons cannot lose more than £39 million in the three year period.  That is it.

QPR Football Club company (excluding the impact of the FFP fine they received in 2018) have made a profit in every year from 2016 to 2020.  So FFP is of no real concern to them at all.

 

But every man and his dog knows that clubs (especially the bigger ones) are finding ways to "enhance" their revenue figures and therefore gain an unfair advantage.

Whilst i agree with the sentiment of FFP, it is still being interpreted in different ways and has not created a level playing field as similar sanctions have done in Rugby, for example.

9 hours ago, Fuber said:

Think it's this that needs addressing.

Why only so long? The mess he inherited will stay that way until he has room to maneuver and resolve - it's as simple as that.

Fact if the matter is that, until someone/players are sold - we won't see any such movement, aside from end of season windows when some wages will be freed up.

Hence why no offensive player was signed in the summer. We still have the likes of Moore, O'Dowda, Palmer, DaSilva, on very good contracts. Not forgetting Kalas and Bentley.

We needed, from last season's squad, to cut wages by at least 40%.

That hasn't happened yet as far as I can tally, I make it a third.

Until two or three of the aforementioned are sold, we're stuck, unless we risk FFP punishment - which could be done, but Gould and SL will likely play it by the book.

Football is a results business and managers are judged purely on wins or defeats. We need to be careful how much we talk about "the mess" he inherited as it continually gives him a get out of jail free card.

The squad still boasts a number of talented players and is fairly expensively assembled by Champ standards. The one area we do lack quality is in the final third which nearly all of us knew was the problem.

I'll repeat it again, Nige still has my backing and he does have a tough job on his hands but i expected better than we have had to date.

9 hours ago, ScottishRed said:

So, given ALL the circumstances, and this is a serious question, if you were SL, what would you do?

Seriously would like to hear your thoughts.  

Suspect I won’t get an answer as I never do when I ask @Hampshire Redor @Hampshire reds

I think my frustration stems from a number of different areas and the blame cannot be laid solely on any one person.

As a fan of over 40 years i just want my club to play with an identity and with passion and to try to play exciting football.

SL has done wonders for the club in terms of facilities but some of the decision making from the top has been questionable. We all doubted that the Dean Holden appointment would go well and that wasted the best part of 12 months (this is just one example)

So in answer to your question, i would like SL to carry on leading from the top but learn by the mistakes he has made previously regarding the football side of the business.

I have said before that Nige still has my support but i do believe the next 5 or 6 games are another tipping point for the club. A poor run of results and even the most staunch Nige supporter will be having doubts.

Relegation should not be an option!

2 minutes ago, Rossi the Robin said:

I believe he thought he needed 3 in to balance / get the dressing room onside.

He could have got 2 in and got the more offensive player, we might never know

I don’t think Simpson has been particularly great, but we don’t know what goes on behind the scenes - he could have helped immensely getting the spirit back 

I don't think anyone truly understands FFP and i do think sometimes its used as a bit of a smokescreen.

QPR managed to bring in Andre Gray on loan (reported wages of £60k per week) to play alongside Charlie Austin and Lyndon Dykes, who will both be on decent wages themselves.

We shifted out a dozen players in the summer to vastly reduce our wage bill and yet still our hands are tied.

If finances are that tight then the crop of players we already have, need to be coached to perform better, which to date, hasn't really happened.

25 minutes ago, Redrascal2 said:

I didn't think he was reluctant as much as not being given the money  to buy one. I can't see how he can be blamed for that.

As i said previously, Nige still has my backing but even his most loyal followers must admit that we needed at least one new offensive signing during the summer. If that meant that King or Simpson etc had to be sacrificed then so be it.

Our defensive record this season is pretty poor so it's not as if clean sheets are being achieved either.

I fully appreciate that he inherited an unbalanced squad and we are at the start of a rebuild, but i did expect a little bit better.

I don't think its the results against Bournemouth and West Brom that are the problem but the manor in which we were defeated.

Anyway, i've had a few Stella's tonight, so i think i'll leave the ranting for now!

As supporters/fans/customers we are entitled to our opinions and unfortunately Bristol City (my club) always flatters to deceive.

Nige still has my support but the excuses regarding the mess he inherited, can only go on for so long.

We have seen very little improvement in the time he has been here and his reluctance to add at least one offensive player (loan or otherwise) during the summer was wrong.

We are in a relegation battle (along with probably 10 other teams) and i'm not quite sure how we can put a run of results together at this moment in time.

I will be at The Gate on Saturday for the Barnsley game but it will be in hope, more than expectation.

17 hours ago, Enter Sandman said:

This squad needs pace, ball retention, composure, creativity and steel. 

Thats basically a completely different squad then!

13 minutes ago, DaveInSA said:

Forest have better players than us on the grass.

I’ve seen so much hyperbole on OTIB in my time lurking in here.

‘We have a top 6 squad on paper’ is the classic.

We don’t. We made a massive charitable  donation to Chelsea, for three players who don’t perform at the levels they’re capable of. 

This is true for a lot of the squad.

Football isn’t played on paper, it’s played on grass.

Spot on... The money spent on the 3 Chelsea boys was huge by our standards and 2 out of the 3 have been a big disapointment for me. I know alot of people rate Jay DaSilva (and he is technically decent) but he hasn't produced anywhere near enough to justify his fee.

Palmer has been a disaster and whilst Kalas has done ok, the reported 8million fee still seems high (although the world was in a different place then).

Our squad is bottom half Champ and recruitment has been poor for quite a few years.

Nige still has my backing at this stage but i do worry that his management/playing style is becoming a bit outdated.

The old fashioned "build from the back" pragmatic managers (Hughton, McCarthy and Hodgson etc) are finding success harder to come by in the modern game and are being outfoxed by expressive attack minded coaches such as Potter, Howe and Nathan Jones.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but it was painfully clear that we needed some offensive reinforcements during the summer, even if they were loans or lower league punts.

I really hope i'm wrong and he can get us going but i am starting to worry a bit now. Tonights result is another damaging outcome that must be affecting the players and staffs confidence and may start to become difficult to shake off?

I like James but i'm not going over the top regarding his performances to date, as others have.

However the main problem for him, and for all of our other midfielders is the lack of options upfront. They don't have a target man to hit, they don't have a quick striker who is looking to play off the shoulder and they don't have wide men who hug the touchline demanding the ball. Therefore when looking forward there options are fairly non existant!

Brian Tinnion is my favourite City player of years gone by, but even he will admit that Scott Murray made his job easy at times by constantly making clever runs and using his pace.

Whilst i acknowledge this is a rebuild, the old saying "attack is the best form of defence" would be worth remembering!

I've always said that O'Dowda has ability and i'll stick by that.

This is one of the most offensively inept City teams i have ever seen and has been for the past couple of seasons. It ranks closely to the Russell Osman side of the early 90's when we had the likes of Liam Robinson and Ian Baird upfront. I appreciate we have managed to score goals away from home but we never look convincing and generally they are created by endeavor rather than free flowing inventive play.

If O'Dowda was to move to Forest, Swansea, Sheff Utd etc i think you'd see a different player. Having just seen Pato score a worldie for Swansea he is another player that is technically superior to anything we have left now.

I'll await the "you're talking rubbish" replies, but i'm going to stick with my opinion on this one.

10 hours ago, Super said:

The money issue is a poor excuse. You may not finish above them over a season but you can still give them a game. We barely put in a tackle stood off them and gave them the easiest game they will get all season. Shocking display.

I agree completely with this. I think we all knew yesterday was going to be a tough game but our performance was shocking.

The early loss of Williams clearly didn't help but if the game had finished 0-6 we couldn't have had any complaints.

I don't want to moan on about Martin, Weimann and Wells again but our lack of pace up front is frightening. Opposition defences have nothing to worry about and we don't have an out ball to relieve any pressure for our defence (who actually did their best yesterday). Gary Cahill has only just stubbed his cigar out and will never have an easier afternoon!

I completely understand this is a "work in progress" project but yesterday wasn't acceptable in my opinion.

Just now, Offside said:

Two of mine (5-1 Blackpool away and Swansea in Tinman’s last game as manager) have already been mentioned. 

Others that spring to mind:

Wolves away, late 90s. We lost 3-0 and one of the goals involved Flapper missing the ball when he tried to kick it and it rolled into the empty net. 

Any time I’ve seen us play at Ipswich. 

Millwall away about 4 seasons ago. I was on a CATS coach, terrible journey there (accident meant we ended up going ages around the M25, got to the ground just before kick off, City were terrible, journey back took ages too. 

Stockport away in the Wilson era, we lost 2-0 in a very gutless performance.

 

 

I was there for that 3-0 defeat when Flapper Phillips missed his kick.

Although it was an awful day i remember that Molineux was rocking and the atmosphere was decent... no consolation tho obviously!

19 minutes ago, Sir Geoff said:

Oxford early to mid 90's 3-0 down after 15 minutes.

I think i remember that game at the crappy old Manor ground.

We had a terrible record there and i'm sure Joey Beauchamp tore us apart!

I remember an away game at Shrewsbury (93/94 ish?) on a cold Tuesday night. We got stuffed 4-1 at The Old Gay Meadow.

My Dad, who's no longer with us drove and asked me if any of my mates wanted to come in the car.

2 of my mates were up for it and needless to say they never came again and stuck to Spurs (who they vaguely supported).

Unfortunately, i don't think Chris Martin suits us at this moment in time. He is clearly technically superior to Fam, but in a side that struggles to create lots of chances and doesn't play much in the final third, he isn't the answer.

Fam had his good and bad points but he had the physicality to cause defenders problems. Whilst he wasn't lightening quick, he could also (now and again) provide more of a threat to balls down the channel.

We just have to accept where we are at this moment in time and i'm sure Nige will continue to tweak our forward play over the next 12 to 18 months

4 minutes ago, Selred said:

We gave no service to the strikers, why do we think that it's the strikers that are the issue?

This sums it up perfectly. Nige is currently making us solid, organised and tough to beat which results in a lack of creativity and expression in our play.

Stage 2 of the rebuild will be to try and add more creation in both the midfield and attacking areas.

I do have to agree with the OP tho that Fam (when he could be bothered) would offer more of a threat in this team than Chris Martin is currently doing, even with the lack of creativity.

1 hour ago, Riaz said:

I have a few spares also.

I would really appreciate a mates rate code if you still have one spare?

Cheers

I think Matty James is a very good player but we need to be fair and admit that Marlon was an excellent servant for us for a number of seasons. 

Marlon was never the most mobile central midfielder and his legs have pretty much gone now, but he served us well.

Matty James is very comfortable on the ball and can back it up physically, which is something we have really missed in the last couple of seasons.

5 minutes ago, Cov 77 said:

Agree just some perspective please, and Saturday wasn’t shit , big improvement from last year, shit late goal but not performance 

I'm sorry to say it, but we are going nowhere quickly. As i've got older i try to look at things in a balanced way but there is no doubting that we are a below average side (again) and this will be another season of struggle.

In years gone by we've always had a couple of decent players in the squad, however this is as average as i can ever remember. 

I would be very surprised if we get anything at The Riverside on Saturday and the pressure will be on Nige and the squad already.

2 minutes ago, Marco the red said:

Nagy can dictate a game which Pack wasn't able to do. Where everything starts and goes through him, unfortunately he wasn't able to cope With the physicality of the league and played out of his position as a cm or cam. He is a sitting midfield in a 3 and nothing else.

I've got nothing against Nagy and i feel he always gave his best but i dont feel he has the quality to dictate a game in The Champ. Players like Barry Bannan, Ryan Woods and Alex Mowatt can do it but Nagy doesnt have that in his game.

We have had many worse players than him over the years but if we receive a reasonable offer then its an easy decision for me.

Just now, Marco the red said:

He is a deep lying playmaker, build from the back neat and tidy. Not the kind of player you see in the Championship but very common in Europe.

He was basically signed as a more mobile Marlon Pack.

I just dont see it Marco... Marlon had a much better passing range and can handle himself physically. Maybe, as you say, he's more suited to other leagues in Europe but i just don't see what his main strengths are?