Hxj

My view is that everyone is in danger of running down lots of rabbit holes with this one.

Personally, following the 'Bristol Sport' reorganisation that took place earlier this year, it doesn't make sense to have a Football CEO and a Group CEO.

The actual operations of the football club are relatively straightforward as are the finances.

Football side director, everything else director, and NP keeping himself far away from anything but his day job - perfect.

8 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Is anybody saying that though? It's entirely Steve's prerogative to reduce the amount he puts into the club. I don't see how he can be criticised for that.

I must be reading a different forum to you then.

11 minutes ago, chinapig said:

Saying on the one hand that what football makes football can spend then saying actually we want to build a nest egg to be used at some unspecified point is contradictory.

How much has football made over the last 10 years?  It has many 'Scots' to go to even look at breaking even.

3 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Otoh owners are happy in the main to fund it, especially if they want promotion.

OK, lets guess that the club needs to raise £10 million a year.  Do you honestly believe that you can find say 10,000 people to contribute £1,000 above their season ticket every year for the infinite future?  Even if you can that is far less than SL is contributing and on here he is a miser who needs to open his wallet even further.

20 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

urely the amount needed is the Cash Flow rather than the Operating Costs vs Income. Disregard factors like amortisation, depreciation etc.

Currently yes - but have you read the posts on here?  £30 million is based upon:

£13 million for FFP purposes

£7 million to cover costs outside FFP

£10 million to improve the squad.

The issue is that banks will not lend funds without proof of income.

14 minutes ago, IAmNick said:

If he's sick of it but still loves the club/city he could give the club ownership to the fans. Why not? Now THAT would be a legacy.

And who would fund the £30 million odd a year needed to pay the bills and get the squad necessary for promotion.  Assuming there are 10,000 fans able to pay the bills that's a £3,500 annual season ticket.  Total pipe dream.  Shows a complete lack of reality.

13 minutes ago, lenred said:

This continuous retort from you and a couple of others of ‘what proportion are you paying’ is just crazy.

We will always differ on this.  It's a business, it needs to make money.

I work for a company owned by a billionaire, aka "The Boss"  The customers pay us for a service and we are required to make a cashflow contribution to the center and not lose money.  

Coincidentally I spent Thursday morning in a meeting discussing my 2024 Business Plan (an excellent one I thought) and my request to add two staff to the team.  If I'd gone in and said 'The Boss' will pay I would have been laughed out of the room.

My plan showed exactly who was going to pay - the customers, eventually.  We are increasing prices for the work we do, and the additional staff members will enable us to have more customers.  If any customer wants a special project those fees are increasing significantly.  Now we just need to deliver.

3 minutes ago, Major Isewater said:

the astonishing statement by the club that we are ‘ maxed out ‘ on our wage budget

So how much more do you think that the wage budget should be increased by, who will that enable the club to acquire, and what proportion are you paying?

16 hours ago, The Constant Rabbit said:

OR - a property developer, that can see the hard yards have been done, and will pay much much more for the very desirable location.

I think that people need to go back and read the planning permission details for both 'The Sporting Quarter' and 'Ashton Vale'.  

I just see this as Nige being Nige.  Direct and honest. Nothing else.

There is a budget - I keep to it.  I'd like more but so would everyone.  

Not my job to explain the budget.

Seems to me that everyone hated the apparent 'pointless splurge' under the previous characters and now hate the 'pointless restraint' under the current characters.

4 hours ago, Superjack said:

If I were him, I would think that I wasn't valued. 

Not everybody values themselves by the amount of somebody else's money they get to spend.

2 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The Allams eventually got their cash back out of Hull

And how much did Mel get out of Derby?

15 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Surely the prospect of promotion in a couple of years is factored into a lot of these new savvy investors plans and mindsets. Go big, go up..reap the PL cash and maybe flip at a profit.

Nah - buying a championship football club is a vanity project.  You invest £20 million a year, £13 million for FFP plus all the other 'non-FFP costs' and you might get it right, and win promotion.  If it doesn't work out in five years you are £100 million poorer, and have an asset basically worth nothing.

Mind you if I could find £200 million behind the back of my sofa it would be a fun way of losing half my fortune and imagine the hate I would get on here for spending £100 million of my own money! 

On 27/08/2023 at 18:12, Davefevs said:

AG Ltd hasn’t posted a profit for the last 5 accounting years!

The company isn't there to make a profit.  It is there to ensure that if the football club goes bust again, the ground is protected from the creditors of the club.  The ownership structure is such that whilst that protection exists the club and the ground are there to sell as a single entity by selling BC Holdings Ltd.

As to the P&L, AG Ltd has made a profit before interest, depreciation and amortisation for the last five years, a positive EBITDA is a good thing.  It absorbs a huge sum of costs that would otherwise fall on the football club, and spreads it out amongst the other activities of the wider Bristol Sport empire and the other commercial activities,

9 hours ago, fisherrich said:

Lansdown has not backed NP financially. Give him some £££s and see what he can do.

NP does not want to be backed with lots of cash.  What he wants is an agreed budget and to manage the team within that budget.  Both of which he has.  As I have said many times before we all know which pool we are paddling in for players and to be fair on balance the recruitment has been pretty good.

On 27/08/2023 at 19:04, IAmNick said:

a slightly ruthless attitude to how each part is run.

If you ran a ruthless attitude over the commercials of Bristol City Holdings Limited you would run a mile and not invest.  End of story.  Nobody investing with a sound commercial mind would go anywhere near a Championship club.

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

@Hxj out of interest, I agree that Nige is aware of the financial constraints, but do you think that selling Scott might’ve led to some budget adjustment?

My original response seems to have disappeared, so let's try again.

I am sure it has, but announcing that you have £x million to spend results in 'Oh - everyone has doubled in price'.  On a simple level I think that the recruitment since Pearson has taken over has been above average.  There will always be players that fail, given the pool we paddle in, but generally things have been good.

We all know that Pearson likes to run a lean squad and likes to promote from within.  All in line with what Lansdown says.  I also note that Lansdown has been criticised on here for stating that Luton were promoted whilst spending less than Bristol City did, why criticise someone for telling the truth?

I had the privilege of being in the same room as Pearson when he managed Leicester City, and listening to him as a person.  He loved playing football and loves being a manager.  He isn't motivated by talking b******** or money.  He wouldn't be at Bristol City if he didn't want to be.

Coincidentally I went to a Group Board meeting today.  The owner/chairman (who paddles in the same wealth pool as Lansdown) said that he didn't like me, didn't see the point of what I did, but really appreciated what I was doing for the group and that you should never recruit people you like.

6 minutes ago, Superjack said:

Utter b*ll***s. The reality now is not the same as it was then. 

Jeez.

If you say so.  But I doubt you know,

3 hours ago, petehinton said:

Pearson won’t be backed

Hate to disappoint you that NP has always been aware of the reality, since before he signed up.

Nothing better than than an OTIB meltdown on a Saturday after three games in the season.

Well done!

Completely irrational - but well done!

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

the League can in theory appeal it I believe.

Regardless of that the head of the FRU clearly had a bad day at the office:

What on earth does he think notes of meetings/calls/discussions are for, particularly when such an important issue is raised.

The EFL went for an EIGHT point penalty - 4 immediate and 4 suspended - given the total 4 day delay in payment over three occasions that is clearly ridiculous.  That is why they ended up with a one point immediate penalty and three suspended.  Tribunals hate authority over-egging the case or the sanction.

13 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

still a bit of a pipe dream based on your reading?

I'd say a lot of a pipe dream.  Currently it is technically possible to get an 'in year' deduction if you are failing FFP and fail to agree or don't keep to a budget, but not actually for an FFP failure.  I still believe that on principle you can only penalise FFP failures once you have passed the end of the accounting period, as until then nothing is final.

20 minutes ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

whole Call-In aspect might be

I think it's a neat way of giving another level of review allowing an alternative view.  The interesting point is that there is no time limit on a 'call in' so for instance a dodgy club is never really safe.

6 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The fact they are now checking accounts for last season in December encourages me in this respect.

It's a move in the right direction, but very slow.  My preference would be to force all clubs to have an accounting date of 31 May, submit final accounts by 14 June, and resolve all FFP issues by 14 July.  Anyone who thinks that 14 days is way too short should work with a US listed company where 7 days is normal.

This interested me in respect of FFP limits in the regulations, not sure if there is a misprint or an actual change, I've changed the formatting but they seem to have lost a year!:

1.1.15 P&S Calculation means, save as indicated below, the aggregation of a Club’s 
Adjusted Earnings Before Tax for T, T-1 and T-2. 

(a) Season 2020/21 only, the P&S Calculation shall be the aggregation of:
            (i) the mean of the Adjusted Earnings Before Tax of T and T-1; and 
            (ii) the Adjusted Earnings Before Tax of T-2; and 

(b) Season 2021/2022 only, the P&S Calculation shall be the aggregation of:
            (i) the Adjusted Earnings Before Tac of T; and 
            (ii) the mean of the Adjusted Earnings Before Tax of T-1 and T-2.

(c) Season 2022/23 only, the P&S Calculation shall be the 
aggregation of:
            (i) the Adjusted Earnings Before Tax of T; and 
            (ii) the Adjusted Earnings Before Tax of T-1; and 
            (iii) the mean of the Adjusted Earnings Before Tax of T-2

I also like the timescales for CFRP hearings, effectively the rules say 2 months from the CFRU decision.

2 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

B) The new 90-80-70 sliding scale to kick in.

This is clearly where the club are moving to.  Pearson has been abundantly clear that there is an agreed wage budget and that needs to be adhered to.  It is also clear that we are not in the market for 'marque' signings or any large transfer fees.

If you look at Group turnover that is say £30 million in 2022, half of which is football income and the rest commercial income.  Assuming a profit of 1/3 on the commercial income gives you a starting point for any SCMP rules of £20 million, 70% of which is £14 million plus say £10 million SL contribution takes you to £24 million to cover salaries and the net cash flow out on transfer fees.  That to me is entirely possible, especially as the current SCMP wages exclude everyone aged 20 or under at the start of the season.  But you will be looking at transfer fees out of only a few million a year.

1 hour ago, Bristol Rob said:

Anything else missed?

Yes - some supporters simply hate SL.

Not working here either, on Opera.