Cidre Monita

3 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Yeah cos it was so defensively secure for 2 years!!  You seem to forget we’ve conceded boat loads with a back 3

Go look at the facts. For once in your life. You are talking rubbish.  Ostrich. 

2 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Pot kettle 

Anyone who thought he had is just inventing stuff. I’ve never seen a Pearson city team not give max effort

And there is one example of why we had to play 3 at the back. Ostrich. 

Just now, And Its Smith said:

So, we didn’t have the players to play 4-3-3, we sign nobody and suddenly we have the players for it? Okay. 

So there has been no change in the reliability of our defenders ? Are you seriously for real. Ostrich. 

14 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Amazing it’s took him two years then! With the same players as he has had all season he has now done it. You make it sound like he’s only just been allowed!

What is amazing is thta you have not listened to the reasons why we ended up having to play 3 at the back. Have you just started watching City this season ? Do you ever listen to interviews ? Where extensive explanations were given to explain why we are not playing 4 at the back. Or are you an ostrich ? You make it sound like you have no idea about what you are talking about. Again. 

12 minutes ago, And Its Smith said:

Some fans been saying go 4-3-3 for 6 weeks. 

The manager has wanted to do it since he arrived. 

27 minutes ago, Lew-T said:

Is he fit? Ball and the game was just bypassing him with ease. 
 

He’s been so poor since the restart.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bristol-city-player-ratings-millwall-7979248

Our so called “ supporters” are pathetic. Just read this thread . No wonder we have never been to the Prem. It is embarrassing. 

10 minutes ago, GrahamC said:

If I was Cameron Pring I’d start to think just like Vyner I’m not in Pearson’s plans.

Most odd really . 

16 hours ago, Magger1 said:

With add ons pretty close 

I can guarantee you those numbers are false. However, there is no reason why anyones salary should be public knowledge. It should remain private, conjecture, but not fact. 

He’s not a number 1 . Should go off and coach under the direction of someone with ability . Was making it up from day to day . Works hard and is dedicated but never a leader . A coaching role at a Prem club would maybe suit. 
 

BCFC are set up to be a Championship side not a Prem side. Outside investors can be found but there are reservations over many aspects, not least control, ground ownership (and expansion) or Bristol Sport, plus the loans/debt. If it is put up for sale, there are buyers. Of course, but it depends what you are selling and what the price is. As ever. 

37 minutes ago, bcfcfinker said:

And now to give a fuller description of this fella Sean Gilhespy:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/inside-bristol-citys-recruitment-team-6030875

It's not full of the emotional baggage Harry seems to carry around, which on occasion seems to be a chip on the shoulder, but maybe City are a bit more discerning on the agents they talk too and Harry's 'agent acquaintances' aren't on City's, so don't get their calls returned?

The article gives a fuller insight to recruitment at City. Not traditional and probably not to everyones liking, but nor are Harry's personal ramblings about how he thinks recruitment should be done.

City recruit is far from best in class . The current set up is only partially fit for purpose .  It has gaping holes . It needs upgrading ASAP . 

1 hour ago, REDOXO said:

I do agree with you on SL and his check writing. However he appointed the guys that made the purchases backed them to the hilt and Signed off on the contracts. 
 

Mr Lansdown is well aware of his culpability in the over spending, but he also stands up and takes responsibility! Which is where the difference lay between the two gentlemen. It also helps that SL is massively more wealthy and is handicapped with a fraction of the hubris of MM. 

TO your general point, MM has put Derby here and as such I have little sympathy with anyone and football spending is insane. Truth be told we were lucky to have so many out of contract in June. The natural attrition was a bit of a god send financially 

Totally agree . It needs for example SL and Gibson to sort this nonsense and they have been involved . Scrap parachute payments and get wages in line with income . It is not rocket science. Clubs are paying stupid wages to average players . Look at us. Palmer . Love him, hate him. Never achieved anything , not a first team starter anywhere, yet we pay him a million plus a year . He was a reserve player, a junior , never made it . Not personal  against Kasey , who is a lovely lad , but FFS. He should be on a fraction of that .  Look at our income . We can go in circles , but players are paid far too much. That is the issue alongside those that agree to pay them. The very best , hell give them a fortune, but not reserves , squad players and second tier players . That is bonkers . Wage deflation has to happen. Wage reduction on relegation needs to be huge. Parachute payments eliminated . Owners to get real. 

2 hours ago, Davefevs said:

That is definitely much clearer….thanks.

And also why HMRC is so high.

So disingenuous to say wages down, when you’re not paying HMRC…..who would ever guess Melly Mel would try to dupe everyone with a hard luck story.  He has certainly confirmed he isn’t an accountant, but someone who wants to try every little way to bend the rules.  His Accountants and Auditors reputations must have taken a hit too?

Morris knew exactly what he was doing. The man is a fraudster and con artist .  He deserves jail but will leave Derby in tatters and run away on his 300/400 million. 

I find it astonishing that 30 years ago Swindon were demoted 2 divisions for financial fraud. The accountants have got better, but it is quite clear Morris has played every financial trick in the book without troubling in any great way his own financial well being. He has defrauded the country (the NHS , schools, well everything) by not paying the tax bills. He has still a few hundred million. Swindon were battered, Rangers too, yet how are we talking this nonsense with Derby when it is clear the perpetrators knew what they were doing and sought to mislead and ultimately defraud the country and others. This was no accident, it was a manipulation, and took artistic accounting to the limits. Morris should be facing criminal charges. and prison Derby should be in League 2. Football and the authorities need to get a grip. Before anyone gets agitated, recall, and this is a fact, there is no gun pointed at any club to pay one single player more than they can afford. I include our club in this. Our wages are a nonsense too. SL has to pay out 20m plus each season. That is madness. Most football clubs are on a normal evaluation insolvent . It is all self inflicted and it only because players are paid too much money. Billions in revenue but clubs are bankrupt. It is BS of the highest order. From the top, look at Barcelona . Do not blame the EFL, UEFA etc, this is in the hands of accountants and banks. If any of us ran a business this way we would have been wound up ages ago. 

Football is a disgrace. So much wealth and it cannot manage to keep any semblance of ethics and responsibility. 

We are no better , look at our wage bill. We rely on SL writing a huge cheque to remain solvent, as if it is normal. It is not. Fotball need reform, Prem league needs reform, parachute payments for failure is astonishing ( just give players a 75 % drop in wages on relegation- if that is all that clubs offer they will still sign) . 

To quote a very good friend of mine. Rather famous and very rich. When responding to a call from the owner of a sporting team who had spent 2 Billion and won nothing. " My friend, if all you wanted to do was come last I could have saved you 1.8 Billion" 

Sorry Derby, you have one man to blame. Morris has destroyed you, and you deserve to pay the huge price. You will come back, but at least show some recognition that Morris has conned all of you and defrauded many. 

15 minutes ago, BTRFTG said:

Parachute payments are a Red Herring.

When Fulham signed Mitrovic (albeit on loan) we were all set for promotion/playoffs, they were squarely mid table having started the season woefully. Boxing Day we beat Reading to go into the automatic spots but the run of luck for the non-striker Reid was running out. Despite respective positions both were struggling upfront to push on.

Winter transfer window they took punt in paying Mitrovic's extortionate wage demand, we signed Liam Walsh (having already signed the likes of 'The Bloke From Knowle, Elliason and Baker that summer for big money.) 

And the rest is history. Mitrovic scored 11 goals to get them to 3rd (only 2 fewer than TBFK scored all season.) They finished 3rd, 21 points above us in 11th. We took 20 points from a possible 66 and rarely looked like scoring once the cup runs were done and dusted.

Recall Fulham beat Villa in the playoff final that year. Occasionally fortune does favour the brave.

Parachute payments 1 Football ) your reply is a red herring. 

Considering the idiotic parachute payments that allows such an imbalance in wages ( quality ) that was one of the most committed City performances you will ever see .

as fans you have to admire how NP has turned a total shambles into a team you are proud to support .  
 

We are improving by the week and this season could yet surprise us all .

It was wonderful to feel a connection between the fans and the club again. 
 

Well done everyone , club , players and fans . We are building something wonderful. 

Parachute payments 1 Football 0 

As a caution, we also like to feel and for god reason that SL keeps us going. Just imagine what would happen f one day he just said "enough". We would be in exactly the same position. We do not own the ground as a football club, and our debts are huge and our cash flow such we would melt down in weeks. Football is a broken system, there is so much money in the game, yet the businesses are allowed to be run with the most incredible accounting results and manipulation. There is more than enough money generated in the game for it to function in a very sustainable manner, yet clubs continue to over pay wages in the search for success.  The guarantees for the debts and loans look to be written in the sand. Owners build up debts knowing the business is ring fenced and they can walk away. The Championship is the most idiotic set up of any sport, where some competitors are paid vast sums for failure. Getting rid of parachute payments should start to bring some wage sanity. Then some. But even our club, what on earth were we doing with a  £30m plus wage bll . Madness. 

Mel Morris is fully to blame for this. He went on a wild spending spree hoping to get to the Prem , but forgot to pay his bills. He may have spent 200M , but the debts are such you have to doubt he has actually spent it in cash terms. Does the ground get included in the administration process ? I doubt. He had the money to get Derby through to a buyer , but has chosen to let them possibly die. Derby fans should be spitting about that man. FFP fair play is one thing, but when someone knowingly piles up debt with no desire to pay it back, it is fraudulent. He owes HMRC £20 m . He allowed that to happen, yet he will still have his £300/400m safe at home. There is no gun to the head of anyone in football to pay wages to players they cannot afford. Owners do it , and they keep doing it, and keep paying players more than the business can afford. The banks, HMRC, accountants and the EFL need a long hard look at themselves, because this sort of nonsense is not happening over night. How the lot of them escape any fraud charges is beyond me. 

17 minutes ago, BasSavage88 said:

Pearson just isn't the man for this. It's easy to blame Ashton etc but this team, the way we play and the mentality is ******* dire and doesn't seem to be improving.

I wouldn't be too upset to see him gone anytime soon 

Extraordinary . Just who do you think wants to get involved with the total mess that is our club ? You think it is a 5 min fix  ? Our problems run deep. The continued ignorance of some fans is mind blowing. Pearson may or may not be the ultimate solution but there are few maybe no one of note that would have taken on our shambles. Who do you want Holloway ? Pearson gets 1.5m and some free transfers and gets 8 months in your view yet LJ spent 50 m plus wages and got 5 years .  This year is transition, and to avoid relegation. 

2 minutes ago, frenchred said:

At some point the spotlight has to turn to Nige, because this is reflecting his last one maybe two roles. We are showing very little if any progress, the same problems exist

Look at the squad . This reflects our recruitment not Pearson.  If you cannot see progress over the pile of poo he inherited you are being ridiculous. It is far from sorted but you are not understanding what a mess our club was in.  If only the real truth could be told. That Pearson even wanted to stick around is a miracle . If you think there is any manager of ability that wanted to touch our mess you are deluded . City fans ignorance is astounding. 

Well no coach in the world can mitigate for that cluster duck. Luton deserved a win , we were terrible , yet even after an undeserved goal. We still implode after 90 mins . That was a very very poor performance . Mid table this season will be a huge positive , but when Luton with their budget show us up we really do see how the millions we have spent have been wasted. 

7 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Thanks for the response- still a lot of grey areas for them and all clubs.

Ground revaluation, unsure how much this counts towards FFP- the profit on disposal yeah, but revaluiation- only the extent from my last recollection of the rules, only the extent to which there was a Reversal of Impairment recognised would go in the Profit and Loss- that's for 2017/18.

The Sala thing is the real one of interest for me- Kieran Maguire said the liability was under Provisions when I looked back, if it's stuck in there it means it doesn't hit the amortisation but general cost- if it was included under relevant expenditure for FFP then the starting point would be the £2.5m profit- if it wasn't then that would be adjusted out of expenditure as an exceptional legal cost but there appears to be nothing definitive and I've looked a bit!

Their cash losses will be huge like a lot of clubs, Profit and Loss maybe a greyer area.

As for the Stadium Revaluation, my interpretation there is that only the amount as said that counted towards Reversal of Impairment might count here- so though the upward Revaluation was shown as £29,253,000 (Movement on Deferred Tax stated as £2,302,000- hence net revaluation shown £26,951,000)- the number that counts though will have to check if this has changed and was under the old regs, would be £5,487,000- that's what was shown in the 2017/18 Operating Loss breakdown.

Rather helpfully, on a general note- and I welcome the increased transparency- the EFL have put up a template of what clubs submit in March and how it looks. I've posted it before but still good to see- though in this instance, T-2 will be T-3, T-1 will be T-2 and T will represent an add up then average of T and T-1.

https://www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/appendix-5---financial-fair-play-regulations/

Based on Provisions for Liabilities and their Accounting Policy, sounds like it might not be included but again it's unclear. Perhaps it only kicks in, if they lose the Sala case- until then it's an unrealised loss, yet to crystalise or could be. Says £19.5m- maybe it includes Sala and one or two other issues, it doesn't specify what it's for in black and white.

The Sala fe has been accounted for. It is in their accounts. The ground was interesting as it was undervalued, so the new valuation had an impact. Not sure why the Sala fee is in provisions, it is not ,it is in their transfer outlay numbers and in the accounts. It is an opportunity for them if they win win the case or insurance pays out.Overall , they will have a wage bill less than us, and an owner that has similar liabilities. They are far from the worst bunch. 

13 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

Thanks- had a quick look at them but missed this bit- looked online before I returned to this thread and indeed, under "Provisions" there is a total of £19.5m, or something like that- can only be Sala?

It will indeed- I mean they'll be fine, more than fine to this season- but there are unknown factors too- unsure it'd be a wage and cash problem, more an FFP one. The fact that Middlesbrough and Norwich- both of whom were surely aok- made such huge transfer profits is interesting. At best, TV money falls by £55m in Year 1 and maybe a further £10m in Year 2- ie this season.

How would the Provision be treated in FFP terms- I looked on the website and there doesn't seem to be any specific guidance- as in should we take the Sala Provision as included or excluded from Costs, £2.5m Profit (Before Tax) or excluded- the latter would mean £22m Profit (Before Tax).

The second big unknown, which none of us yet know or can know, is how next season will be rolled up- will it be back to the 3 years ie last, this and next season as a block or simply moving on 2017/18, 2018/19, and 2019/20 and 2020/21  as one on a year- now beginning with 2018/19, 2019/20 and 2020/21 as a block and then 2021/22 as the 3rd.

I've read £30m for wage bill on their forum- their accounts will of course be instructive for how they look going into 2021/22 if still at this level.

With respect to the FFP, if it's the rolled up continued that would mean that for Cardiff into 2021/22 would be one upper limit of £35m and one of £13m- assume they spend to the limit, equity wise etc- added up, divided by 4 and x 3! £74m/4 x 3=£52.5m plus allowable costs. If not, it'd be the usual £39m from 2019/20 to 2021/22.

The Sala fee was included in their transfer outgoings in the accounts. Im not suggesting they are in a great place , their debts are huge and they revalued the ground a couple of years ago to help .... But compared to most promoted teams they have got out lightly, unlike the last time they were promoted. They all only have tv income really, transfers have died off and the 8M gate revenue is zero. The accounts for this current season will show huge losses of 20 to 30 M for the majority of clubs.