MarcusX

17 hours ago, Three Lions said:

That is a St George bought by fans of BCFC including Scooter RIP who did a great deal of the fundraising. Not something to laugh at.

Well firstly, I'll say no disrespect towards the origins of the flag was intended, although I think you're bwrong to suggest anyone was laughing at the source of the flag.

But quite obviously as Rich says:

16 hours ago, richwwtk said:

It was @Cowshed and his 'defacing flags is illegal' that was being laughed at, not the flag

It was Cowshed posting one minute that "defacing flags is illegal" then posting his delight at a customised England flag 2 posts later that was amusing. The complete hypocrisy of "you cant touch our flags unless it's something I approve of on the flag"

16 hours ago, Three Lions said:

Read it again and that St George flag and St Georges are part of our footballing culture and traditions something you our culture warrior mate to laugh at and look down but important to many.

Read what again? Cowshed didn't say any of that?

3 posts:
1. "Defacing flags is illegal"
2. "Yes defacing a flag can be a hate crime."
3. Post saying "lovely" with a picture of a flag that has writing on it, which some may describe as defaced.

No post about culture or tradition there at the point I responded.

For what it's worth, I love seeing all the England flags especially at games and tournaments and I'll have mine in Germany in the summer. I just think people are taking a slight change to one aspect of our flag applied on a shirt way too far - even though I agree it looks a bit shit, would be better without a cross at all on the collar IMO.

As for culture warrior, you're looking at the wrong people there... 

14 hours ago, Red Cloud said:

fair enough but for those of us who do, there's no way any other country would be expected to just accept this!

I'm very proud to be English and see this as yet another attempt to wipe out everything English

Like I said, can you imagine what would happen if the Palestinian Flag had its colours changed? or the Saltire going pink or the Welsh Flag ditching the Dragon

Other countries have, including your example of Scotland. They've had a purple flag, a yellow cross and other manipulations of their flag on their shirts.

3 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

My original statement is entirely correct. Nike wanted pride/rainbow colours, FA vetoed it.

No it isn’t. Nike wanted more colours on the kit and it was vetoed - clearly because some idiots can’t see a “rainbow effect” without linking it to something it isn’t.

What you’ve done is said rainbow must mean pride and that’s why they’ve done it. Your statement is an opinion.

2 hours ago, Red Cloud said:

If the Palestinian Flag suffered the same treatment, would that still be "trivial"?

Such a weird comparison 

5 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Yes, have you? 

Yes, obviously as I’ve explain above in the comment you replied to.

The word “pride” isn’t mentioned once in that article, what I assume you’ve done is read the word rainbow and made a connection.

For the benefit of those who can’t view behind the paywall this is the quote:

“It seems astonishing that the FA would not examine the shirt closely enough but, amid claim and counterclaim from sources close to those in charge, there were allegations the US firm wanted to make the home kit even more multi-coloured and closer to displaying a “rainbow” effect.”

It goes on to say:

“Another source with knowledge of the design process for the kit confirmed an addition of another colour had been discussed but disputed that would have constituted a “rainbow” effect, stressing part of the design brief had been incorporating hues harking back to England’s 1966 World Cup triumph.”

6 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2024/03/22/england-shirt-flag-st-georges-cross-nike-two-years-ago/

Have you read the whole article?

Well this a topical time to bring this back up 

11 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

The original design was for it to be in the pride colours but the Fa vetoed that. 

And rather than it being replaced with the proper flag they've come up with this which I just can't understand. 

Where have you seen this?

The only thing I can find is a paywalled telegraph article, that when you read it was about making the home kit more multi-coloured (presumably like the away kit down the sides) not “using pride colours” and doesn’t mention the cross.

8 hours ago, Red-Robbo said:

Having worked on a contract for a very large company involved in sportswear design, I know that design teams are always looking at ways to spin things and using the cuff colours used in '66 on this rather tucked away - can't say I ever noticed it during games - flag design is just the sort if thing they love coming up with and they justify their fees through such tinkering.

I'm as traditionalist as the next man, but when you realise that having a small flag on the collar only began in 2002, I can't get worked up about this. Let's face it there wasn't a flag on the England kit in '66 nor in various other classic tournaments.  It's a modern imposition, so I don't care about it.

Now, if they'd have ****** about with the Three Lions ...

 

And yet, guess what… they have, and no one has said a word.

The badge background was blue on last years Red shirt. This year on the away shirt they’ve changed the colours to purple and no one has said a thing.

Anyway, saw loads of the new shirts around yesterday and both the England store and the Nike store were packed with huge queues, don’t think it’s been as unpopular as many would like to think.

12 hours ago, Leabrook said:

Picking Maguire over Braithwaite is one of the reasons we won’t win the euros 

I think he’s a bit passed it now, and he’s Danish.

11 hours ago, Super said:

If we didn't already know we are stuffed if Kane gets injured. Not sure Watkins is good enough at this level 

Whilst I probably agree, it’s a little harsh. He had no service all night. I don’t think the result would have been any different with Kane.

10 hours ago, redkev said:

How & why people go and watch England friendlies at Wembley I don’t know , would love to know how much it would cost just to travel from Bristol , pay for parking tube in from parking , couple of pints , bit of food , ticket for game etc etc to watch an exhibition game , I understand why people do it but not for me thanks 

You said you don’t know, then said you do understand?

Lots of reasons, it’s a pleasant atmosphere to take kids (poor atmosphere for a football game though IMO) to see some of the best players in the world, to see one of the best stadiums. Then for a lot of us it’s caps, as @North London Red said I’m not having people tell me I’m lucky in the summer for going to Germany when I’ve had to sit through the likes of that - not to mention to the last 2 qualifiers and the trashing from Hungary at Molineux.

I think last night highlighted that we’re starting to lack quality in depth.

I want to like Gallagher, he seems a decent lad from interviews and he has ability but as someone else said chasing shadows half the game and panicky on the ball.

Maguire and Stones still our best options at the back. Dunk was hopeless. Left back is a real worry too.

I thought last night Brazil defended well and we couldn’t break them down and yet when they went forward we struggled.

It’s not exactly panic stations, especially at this point in the season when no one wants to get injured, March games are always crap.

Lastly, why is it that all over the country every weekend there are clear rules that away fans do not go in home ends, and there’s no chance you’d get away with wearing your colours and cheering goals.

Why is it allowed to happen at Wembley? It’s time England went back on the road for games, the atmosphere is so much better at club grounds. Looking forward to the Bosnia game and my first trip to St James Park.

1 hour ago, Gert Mare said:

Just out of interest, who would buy a City home club shirt if the club decided it was going to be ‘Blue and White Quarters’ for a change?

That isn’t the same situation at all. It’s more akin to the occasions we’ve colour matched our badge to the kit - eg the purple shirt a few seasons back I think

Still waiting for someone to answer why “defacing” a flag (actually just change the colours in a shape of a cross similar to the flag) is so terrible - but literally every club in the land defacing flags with all sorts of shit, often even changing the colours is absolutely fine?

Even @Cowshedwading in talking about defacing flags, then shared a defaced flag celebrating it 

I wasn’t too fussed about this originally, and tbh still don’t care about the flag on the shirt, but the fallout is fascinating and the hypocrisy truly bizarre.

Some even trying to claim now that Harvey Elliot, who likes to wear his collar up when there is one, was doing so to hide the cross 

On 21/03/2024 at 20:27, phantom said:

Cheers for the advice 

May sound daft the person I'm going with hasn't "experienced" the walk with Wembley in the distance and find that a real lasting memory 

I get a cold sweat as I used to work in the second building on the left :laugh: 

I'm planning on coming back the way you mentioned, especially as we're sat that part of the ground 

I used to arrive that way and head to The Greyhound pub 

After bumping into you so randomly at the women's final I'm sure we'll find you 

I personally think they’ve ruined that walk with all the buildings now, was iconic when it first opened, now you can barely see much of the stadium.

Thanks for the tag about box park, I’ve told my mates it’ll be a struggle on a free but we’ll see what happens!

12 hours ago, Lewisdabaron said:

Just a slight co-incidence its the flag in same style of the bisexual flag? Not that i care what that stands for, we just shouldnt be messing with traditional st george cross. Simple. 

Let’s be honest this is it isn’t it? This is the real reason for some people being upset - just have to see Joey Barton’s tweet (the one in which he put them side by side and actually proved it’s not the same at all).

Some have jumped to a conclusion about its meaning and got up in arms, had a mate straight away trying to talk about having enough of virtue signalling 

The proof that it’s just an artistic play on colours is literally in the away kit where they’ve done the same thing (albeit inside the shirt) with the away colours.

I’ll preface this by saying I’ve not watched it yet, but there’s been lots of debate about us being “boring” lately - and that stemming back years.

I don’t get it, to be honest.

Only a handful of clubs every season can have success, and a few fight relegation. Having experienced relegation several times I can’t exactly say I long for the “excitement” of a relegation battle.

We’ve established ourselves as a championship side now over the last 20 years when prior to that we were a league one side. We’ve had a playoff final, cup semi final, beaten multiple premier league sides and earned a bit of a refutation for it.

The double winning season was fantastic albeit at a lower level. LJ had us competitive most seasons in and around the playoffs - even if ultimately it tailed off but you can’t call those years boring.

A couple of years of misery after that then Pearson had us competitive again, and I can’t tell you many games I watched under him that I would call “boring”.

Lastlly, I don’t understand how we can be more boring than even a team like Swindon or Rovers nearby - they literally have no chance of reaching this level in their current states, so they’re doing all that 1-2 levels below us. One of thems even been non league.

If anyone thinks promotion from the conference is more exciting than watching us compete at the top of the championship and beating the likes of Man Utd, West Ham, competing with Man City over two legs etc then football isn’t for you.

2 hours ago, Cowshed said:

Lovely.

 

 

That’s a defaced flag?

Some said no other country would stand for this, even home nations, Scotland have done it a few times - particularly that yellow cross on the red kit. That’s exactly the same as Nike have done isn’t it?

And no one has commented on the badge on the away shirt either.

I think Joey Barton’s made it clear what his problem is with it and others are jumping on a bandwagon.

Also no one has answered if they were bothered in 2010/11 and if not why not?

13 minutes ago, Cowshed said:

Defacing a flag is a hate crime. 

Ummm there’s “defaced” England flags up and down the country every Saturday afternoon?

1 minute ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

The Rules have changed significantly however, see the bits above about a Forecast Breach in the P&S Calculation being grounds for a referral to the CFRP.

Even it they went up such while Proceedings are ongoing, the Rule changes are such that a double punishment could be possible.

Ah ok thanks, I struggle to understand it all tbh! I find your postings on some of it useful though

Just bugs me with Leicester that they got away with it in 2014 when they won promotion, then had their "fairytale" with little punishment. Think they ended up settling with the EFL for about 3 million because they didn't come back down

18 hours ago, Mr Popodopolous said:

EFL think they are set to breach for this year too. I wonder if any kind of In-Season charge could occur there.

Same as when they went up then - cant do anything because they'll no longer be in this league. This is where the Premier League / Championship divide becomes a joke.

As others have said, presumably Leicester will only get punished if/when they go up - and they'll already get the rewards for that

6 minutes ago, ChippenhamRed said:

As if to prove that the cross has been simply been used artistically as part of a consistent colour palette and brand identity, here is the England shirt on the official twitter account today.

Note the same stripes on the arm and use of the same colours again in the background graphics.

It’s a graphic design and artistic choice, nothing more. The debate is utterly bonkers.

And even more obvious when you see the flag on the away shirt following the same trend

More intriguied by the material on that shirt, looks like a cricket jumper 

2 hours ago, RedRock said:

Ummm…. I think the clue is in ‘the official England shirt’. 

Some highly-paid diversity bod in the FA either initiated or approved this aberration. 

Maybe Nike should have a bit lighthearted fun and alter their brand motif so it becomes unrecognisable on the shirt…. but hey, they wouldn’t do that as their commercial interests are far more important than our national identity.

Hopefully, someone will come to the rescue and produce copies with the England flag on so nobody buys the official de-flagged and, btw, obscenely over-priced shirt. 

Not sure what bit of my post you're referencing. I agree Nike probably shouldn't have done this, though I'm far from actually bothered.

But all the comments are about the flag and how wrong it is to change it - yet there's many examples of that happening that people aren't actually fussed about - even clubs who wear blue using a blue cross as a flag.

I would suspect some people are bothered because of what they perceive the colours to mean, but that's just speculation. I don't remember any uproar in 2011.

I believe Nike have since said the cross is to represent the colour scheme of the kits - eg the purple and blue trims.

19 hours ago, 54-46 said:

Personally, can't believe people care so much about this.

Don't recall so much outrage back in 2010 when this one came out.

 

So my view is that I can understand why people don't like it.

As a "lefty" I'd usually be in the "so what" crowd - but I think Nike have messed up here. I think Umbro got away with it, probably in part because people didn't even realise or think about it, but also because it still has the actual red cross - it just has others.

It does beg the question why only some defacing of the flag is frowned upon. In some countries, eg the USA, their flag is highly protected. It's deemed unacceptable to deface or add anything to the US flag.

Over here, we have all sorts of shit added to England flags by club fans, sometimes even colour changes - and it goes completely without comment:

17 hours ago, redkev said:

Never done that , do you stay in there for the game or just pre match 

 

They dont show the game, but you're only allowed in with a match ticket - so it's predominently pre and post game drinks / food.

42 minutes ago, phantom said:

It is worse than that, this is on the England store website..... they do offer Free Delivery though :laugh:

I'm taking a friend who hasn't been to an England game before so am getting brownie points with her, also doing the stadium tour Sunday lunchtime

I was wondering about going to The Globe before the game, easy location when changing tubes at Baker Street, certainly quieter the The Metropolitan will be

Never been here before, not sure I can be bothered with the hassle of getting served

I applied for those too, I doubt I will be in the area until about 4pm if I head straight there after checking in at my hotel

I guess it is one to avoid at that time?

I was tempted to go there after the game to give the crowds time to disperse 

They won't be showing the game 

Which block are you in?

I'm in 126, I was going to take the large Weston / England flag my mate in S82 has, but I am going to be drinking around London after so don't trust myself not to lose it

I dont know about one to avoid as such, but I imagine after 3ish it'll be one in one out and I've seen some queues.

The problem I'm tackling with my mates (6 of us going) is that if you decide you can't get in and it's 3.30 / 4, you're kinda stuck in the area.

I don;t know what it's like inside as haven't been since 2021 but back then it was decent, plenty of space and table service via app - but as I say it was limited by covid numbers and such like.

I remember they were also helpful that one of our group turned up a bit later and they let him queue jump to join us (was one in one out at that point), the door staff were really good and friendly.

17 hours ago, redkev said:

Totally understand why people go , but for the reasons above it’s hard work if your a proper football fan and not a spectator ( 2 different things ) 

absolutely agree, I hate the friendlies 

4 minutes ago, Rocky said:

We’re going to Boxpark for the Brazil game.  Good venue, but busy af.

Have you paid or just the free entry?

I've done it before for Champs League final and it was decent because the numbers were limited, was the 2021 Covid year

We've got the free entry but thinking it'll be too busy by time we get there - mates arent getting in til like 3-3:30. I know you have to be in before 3pm on the paid tickets

18 minutes ago, redkev said:

I will look out for you starting that Mexican tfxxking wave that always goes round at friendlies along with the paper aeroplanes and the place full of kids , friendlies arnt for me I’m afraid 

They're horrific, but needs must for caps for the away games / tournies

If we hadn't beaten Southampton I'm not sure he'd still be here, it's the only thing people really have to praise him for - arguably Watford too? The cup games were good but was still 1 win in 4, and Forest were there for the taking at home. The first West Ham game was truly a brilliant performance especially after going behind so early. There was so much fight and desire from the lads in that game - which makes the recent performances seem like they must be instructed to play that way and hold back, it's not them not wanting to do it.

It still seems bizarre just how good that Southampton game was and how high we all felt walking away from that game. Genuinely thought he'd cracked it and the tide would turn.

2 hours ago, RedEyez said:

What if we didn’t sack Nigel Pearson?

Probably about the same, the difference is the fan's expectations and the comments from the club. Most of us would have been happy with another season of mid-table ahead of a push next year, even if it meant Nige left in the summer.