Harry

Just now, W-S-M Seagull said:

This is getting pathetic now mate. 

Dress this up however you want but we can all see what you're trying to do is to deflect any blame from Manning. 

Stick to playing football manager mate. 

Ha ha. I’ve made my feelings on Manning quite clear and I don’t want him here any more - with immediate effect. 
But he’s not to blame for everything that is wrong with this club and he’s not to blame for the fact there are more established strikers ahead of Conway in the Scotland squad. 
I’m sure if you could find a tenuous link that you’d blame Manning for the crisis in Gaza. 

36 minutes ago, The Batman said:

A fair few examples of "playful updates" are doing the rounds already. 

 

 

Are there any versions out there with a picture of career criminal George Floyd replacing the 3 Lions?  
You know, just playfully, like! 

19 minutes ago, SydneyCity said:

Shankland has only just got into the squad so it could have been between him and TC, had TC been a bit more prolific this season. Given the 5-10 more goals example you gave, I’d say 12-17 goals in the Championship, certainly at the upper end of that, is up there with 27 in the SPL.

Dykes is having a pretty poor season overall, so he’s in on loyalty at the moment, so TC could have been in with a shout for his spot too.

Adam’s would not lose his spot.

Shankland is in top form in the SPL this season and is the current ‘pick’. Tommy would have had to be simply outstanding to oust him from the squad and if he did I’d guess there’d be uproar amongst the majority of the Scottish fans (who basically know Shankland but prob don’t really ‘know’ Conway).  
 

And Dykes, even if we think he’s crap, has started all but 2 of Scotlands games in the last 18 months and therefore been an integral part of the team that’s got them to where they are. 
I’d be amazed if Tommy gets in ahead of any of those, even if he’d scored 20 goals this season (which he never would have done under Nige either anyway!) 

18 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

Dykes or Shankland could’ve missed out for TC….Shankland has only recently (Nov) got back into the squad.

So he’s ahead of Tommy then - who hasn’t made a squad at all yet. 

59 minutes ago, The Batman said:

I don't get what playful update to unite and inspire means. If fans ain't inspired by their country playing in a major tournament then they may as well not bother. 

Here's a "playful update" of the Swedish flag

I’m surprised they didn’t put the Ukraine flag on it! 

37 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

All he needs to do is score every single chance he gets, something that the best striker in the world can't do and he'll get a call up. Simple really. 

Tommy actually has a higher shot conversion rate than the best striker in the world. TC 18.4% Vs EH 16.67%

I believe TC is also slightly outperforming his xG. 

The problem here isn't Conway missing chances, the problem is Conway isn't getting enough chances and that is fully down to Manning. 

 

36 minutes ago, SydneyCity said:

His chances of scoring have been reduced because he’s playing in a system where he rarely gets the ball in a goal scoring area and, with a few more goals this season he may have been deemed ready and given a shot.

His chances of playing for Scotland have not increased under Manning.

I think we’re going to have to put this one down as agree to disagree

Still no answer to the very simple question :

Even, hypothetically, if Pearson had still been here and Tommy had scored another 5-10 goals, which player out of Adams, Dykes and Shankland would he replace? 

3 minutes ago, SydneyCity said:

Scotland assistant coach, John Carver yesterday: 

“I think it is important you never stop looking and searching. That’s how it should be. If people think they are comfortable getting a place in the squad then they become relaxed. So we want to just make sure that there’s a competitive edge at that top end of the field… We will never stop looking. The young boy [Tommy] Conway at Bristol is another one, but he is doing really well with the Under-21s and they have got a big game coming up. He is one we have been looking at as well. It is good for the future. He is in there and I am guessing he has got around about a dozen goals at least. He scored a great goal against West Ham in the FA Cup. He is another youngster coming through.”

TC is not far off it, and a few more goal scoring opportunities, resulting in a few more goals could (not definitely) have clinched a call up - and Manningball has definitely reduced his chances.

It’s basic probability. More chances = more goals.

How have his chances reduced when it’s quite clear from that quote that he’s on their radar but not yet ready 

They know him from the 21s and know what he can do. How have his chances reduced? If anything, that West Ham goal (under Manning) has raised his profile! 

10 minutes ago, Davefevs said:

FWIW, I think if TC had had a scoring run after his high profile goals against West Ham, he might’ve got a call-up, at least to see what he’s about.

He has of course trained with the full squad.

No guarantees, but imho, Manning-ball has lost him a chance of getting picked.

But that “high profile” goal was scored under Manning?? 
How many more goals do you think would have been required to get him 3 or 4 levels up the pecking order? 

30 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Man City have a conversion rate of 10.1% Pep OUT! 

Haaland has had 69 shots but only scored 18, absolutely pathetic. Non league player. 

 

Who’s saying anything about chance conversion rate. 
I’m not talking about half chances and scraps. I’m talking about 5 one v ones. Yes I wouldn’t expect anyone to score 100% of one v ones but it was certainly within Tommy’s gift to secure at least 3 or 4 more goals from these clear cut chances. 
 

Again I’ll ask you : which one of Adams, Dykes and Shankland was he due to replace had Pearson still been in charge and he’d scored 5 extra goals? 

9 minutes ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

If Conway would have scored 15-20 goals, he'd be going to the Euros. There is no ifs or buts about it. Have you seen their other strikers? 

No it's not a dig at LM. It's deserved criticism of how he has treated Tommy Conway. 

Ok. So which one of Adams, Dykes and Shankland does he replace? 

7 hours ago, W-S-M Seagull said:

Yep. 

Tommy had the chance of a life time to go to the Euros. He may never get that chance again. 

Put Tommy Conway in Coventrys team for example and he'll get 15-20 goals. 

Liam Manning has destroyed Tommy Conway. For anyone to suggest otherwise would be laughable. 

Manning came in and took Tommy aside and told him to stop being Tommy Conway, he wanted to mould him himself. This is indisputable facts. Both Tommy and LM have said this. 

Rather than playing to Tommy Conways strengths Liam Manning has done the total opposite. But thats because Liam Manning wants to be the guy that gets the plaudits. He wants to be attributed with turning Conway into a different type of player. 

Conway will leave here in the summer because of this with £s knocked off his value. 

To be fair to Tommy he has tried to buy into Mannings methods but it just does not suit the type of player he is. 

I for one don't blame the lad at all for wanting out of this shit show.

Manning has cost him a place at the Euros and I feel angry for the lad that he has been treated like this. 

 

Good lord! I’ve never read such hyperbolic tripe!! 
Yes, he may well score 15-20 goals for Cov. But that still wouldn’t have risen him from 6th or 7th choice to 3rd choice. 
He could already have 12 goals had he buried his one v one chances. 
And just because he may score 15-20 for Coventry has no relevance to how many he’d score for us. Under both managers we’ve had this season, we wouldn’t score as many goals as Coventry. So if you’re to blame Manning for a lack of goals then Pearson is as equally responsible, as would be Tinnion and the recruitment team for putting together a squad that can only play one way and lacks firepower. 
If Conway was good enough for the Scotland squad he’d have been called up. Truth is, whichever manager we have here, Tommy is not quite at that level yet and there are 5 or 6 players ahead of him for that squad. 

17 minutes ago, SydneyCity said:

He definitely is, and is being talked about in the Scottish press a fair bit.

That kind of underlines my key point, if TC was around the 12 goal mark so far there’d be a legitimate conversation about him going to the Euros… but he isn’t and I mostly (not entirely) put that down to how he’s currently being used by Manning.

I don’t get this blame on Manning to be honest. 
Tommy has 7 goals. You’ve said that 12 would have him in contention. 
He’s missed 5 one v ones under Manning. 
If he buries those he has his 12 goals. 
He is responsible for his own dip in form. He’s had the chances but hasn’t stuck them away. 

1 hour ago, DaveF said:

Sounds like you're doing him a disservice a bit. They've scored 5, 6 and 5 goals in their last 3 games (including against the Gas), the manager must be doing something right!

Sorry. Wasn’t meant to do any disservice to Skubala. 
Just that he’s clearly getting the best out of his players, but he’s got a couple of bloody good ones for that level. And if you can get the best out of the better players you’ll always stand a chance. 
They’ve hit some lightning form of late. The addition of Moylan has been hugely influential in this. 

57 minutes ago, SydneyCity said:

If TC had kicked on from last year.

You mentioned 12 goals so far as a possible benchmark. That sort of form puts him in good stead against those around him:

- Che Adam’s - 12 goals so far

- Lyndon Dykes - 5 goals so far

- Lawrence Shankland - 27 goals so far

- Kevin Nisbet - 5 goals so far

- Jacob Brown - 4 goals so far

Adam’s, Dykes, Nisbet play in the champ, Brown will likely be in the champ next season.

Shankland, despite his amazing form, is only just getting his chance, which suggests where Clarke sees the SPL. Shankland was in last time as Dykes was injured but is in for these next friendlies on his own merit.

So I still think that if TC was tearing it up / improved on last season, there’d be a legitimate conversation to be had about him being in. It would still be hard for him given all the reasons we’ve mentioned in previous comments, but not impossible. I still think Manningball has made it impossible for him and removed any conversation.

TC has also missed a few this season, but you could argue that a happy, well utilised, TC would have scored them and kicked on.

You mention again about “if he was tearing it up”. 
But what exactly do you mean by “tearing it up”? 
Are you talking 25 goals and 10 assists? 
20 goals? 15 goals? 
What constitutes “tearing it up” that would have been sufficient enough for him to be in the reckoning? 

3 hours ago, Davefevs said:

This guy getting a bit of attention.  Lincoln rocketing up lg1, based on momentum, they’ll make the play-offs!

 

I’d note that in most of those clips it features Jack Moylan and Joe Taylor. 
Two very good players for that level. 
Sometimes it’s just all about the players and their own capabilities / desire 

5 hours ago, LondonBristolian said:

Personally, I think we might have expected to see evidence of him pushing on a little more than he has as he's a year older with a bit more experience. Having got 12 in all competitions last year, I'd imagine he would have been targeting at least that in the league and maybe 15 or 16 overall. 

That said - whilst I think Manning has struggled to get the best out of him - I don't think it is all on Manning. The early season injury likely unsettled his rhythm and there were signs he was struggling a little for confidence before Manning started. Plus, new manager or not, he's not by any means the first young player to find his second season harder than the first. He needs to learn from it and push on next year, although the big question is whether or not that is with us. 

So, had he scored 12 in the league so far rather than 7, would that have been enough to get him 3 places up the pecking order and selected for Scotland?
Personally, I doubt it. 
If he’d scored 20 so far this season then the prospects may look different. But he was never gonna do that whichever manager was in charge. 
So I don’t think we can blame Manning for him missing out. He was highly unlikely to be selected anyway, barring injury to 3 others or an absolute blinder of a season himself. 

37 minutes ago, SydneyCity said:

I don’t think we can blame him for TC not being in the squad, but I’ll blame him for removing any chance of him being in the squad.

If TC was tearing it up this season, it would still be hard for him to break-in, given the settled squad and those you’ve mentioned… but it wouldn’t be impossible. Currently I believe it is.

When you say “tearing it up”, what exactly do you mean? 
 

If we look at Conway’s goals to games/minutes ratio pre and post Manning, since the start of last season, we might have expected him to have scored around 1.5 more goals so far under Manning. 
Given he’s missed 5 one on ones, those extra 1.5 goals have been very much within his gift. 
 

When you say tearing it up, do you mean:

A) same level of scoring form as demonstrated over the prior 18 months = 1 or 2 extra goals 

or 

B) should we have expected 20 goals this season? 

I’m not a Manning fan, but I don’t think we can blame him for Conway not being in the Scotland squad. 
He’s 21. He’s only had a handful of call ups to the u21’s. 
He’s got established players such as Adams, Dykes and Shankland in front of him. 
He’s also got a slightly more established and experienced Nisbet in front of him plus Brown who is playing Prem football. 
 

At best he’s 6th choice. Even if he’d scored his 4 or 5 one on ones he’s had since Manning came in, he’d still be 6th choice. 
 

ps - he has to get in above Medube too

I’m absolutely amazed to think that, when I first started going to games, Ivor would have already been age 65 and retired!! 
What an age! Fair play to him. And a great rendition of Red Red Robin too. Brilliant. 

6 minutes ago, spudski said:

I really believe we could make that song our own. 

I can imagine the crowd singing it as one. 

Gas have one, West Ham, Liverpool etc. etc. 

We need one imo.

It's relevant...and the 'Blue' bit could be aimed at the Gas. Changed to ' what if I'd been Blue'. 

When the red, red, Robin comes bob, bob, bobbin' along, along
There'll be no more sobbing
When he starts throbbing, his old sweet song
Oh, wake up, wake up you sleepy head
Get up, get up, get out of bed
Cheer up, cheer up, the sun is red
Live, love, laugh and be happy

What if I've been blue?
Now I'm walking through fields of flowers
Rain may glisten but still I listen for hours and hours
I'm just a kid again doing what I did again, singing a song
When the red, red, Robin comes bob, bob, bobbin' along

I always imagined we’d sing 

“wake up wake up you City heads……….

cheer up cheer up and cheer on the reds” 

1 hour ago, Fjmcity said:

What part of this sounds good to you?

None of it. That’s what’s so sad about the whole situation. 
We’re soooooo far down crap alley that people would be happy with a bloke who is as hated amongst our fanbase as Holloway! 
 

What a sad sad sorry sorry state we’ve got ourselves in. And with no sign of recovery ahead. 

It would never work. 
Warnock has been a success in the past because of how he does things. He does it HIS way. 
We won’t tolerate that. 
 

Neil : I want to sign Sol Bamba, Paddy Kenny & Shaun Derry. 
Brian : Sorry Neil, that’s not the way it works. We have a list of players that we’ve targeted through our world class analyst department and you get to choose from the top 3 list we provide to you. 
Neil : But they won’t be able to play the way I want to.  
Brian : What is it you want to do?  
Neil : I want to play direct and ugly football and make sure my players are total shithousers and get under everyone’s skin. I want us to be horrible to play against. It won’t be pretty but it can be effective. 
Brian : I’m sorry Neil, that’s not how we do things around here. 
Neil : Well, best of luck with that then, you fools. 

1 hour ago, slartibartfast said:

Have FGR got any "lads" have a dance with ?

To be fair mate, I was quite surprised by both sides. Sutton had a very young mob of about 40 or 50 (about 35 of which didn’t really want to be involved and were just there for the numbers. FGR had a few lads who fronted them up. It wasn’t anything but some very unfashionable handbags in the end. All rather amusing though. 

1 minute ago, redsquirrel said:

im hoping there is a chance to get up there for good friday. its not definite yet but the wheels are in motion

Don’t we have Leicester at home that day? 
means I can’t do both