Harry

Excellent. About bloody time. So, also an ignorant bigot ?

Perhaps these researchers didn’t spout their views on public forums claiming that the majority of those who won’t vaccinate are stupid (without directly linking to the fact that most of those people you called stupid would be black). Actually I take it back. You’re not a bigot. You’re a surreptitious bigot.

I may not be as intelligent as I believe. But also, you are clearly more of a bigot than you believe.

Agreed Pops. Data is vital to understand risk.

Perhaps the medics know perfectly well that the virus is highly highly highly unlikely to effect these young fit footballers and so they know they don’t really need it?

Not at all. It’s the only known fact in the general public domain. James54De chose to insinuate it was only the poor and the dumb - I’ve not seen any such analysis, it might be out there but I don’t know (and I doubt it’s true anyway). So the 2+2 is that he is insinuating that black people are poor and uneducated. The 2 facts he presents + the 1 fact we all know. Its bloody disgusting.

And race. Go on say it……..

Why do you assume it’s only unvaccinated footballers who are getting covid? Please don’t tell me you are one of those people who actually thinks that the vaccine will prevent you from getting covid! Hopefully that was just a slip of the tongue and you do actually fully understand that even if you are vaccinated you can still test positive.

Not at all judgemental. “I’m right and anyone who disagrees is thick and poor”. What a nice chap.

Hi Rob. It’s not about the name or date of birth or whatever that is on the pass. I have no problem with ID in general. Hopefully I’ve stated my case quite clearly and openly, but as you ask, I’ll summarise with a copy of a message I sent to another friend last night : “It’s not the here and now mate. It’s where it’s heading. Don’t get me wrong - I’m not an anti vaxxer and all that. I’m completely pro-vaccine. It certainly is a good thing for those that are vulnerable. But I started to question it about Feb/March ish. Originally it was for the vulnerable groups, but gradually it started creeping. Then it was gonna be 2. And 3. And more. My big issue came when I could see that they were gonna make children have it. I saw that coming back in March mate. For me, a 47 year old, the benefit analysis is fair. For kids, it’s not. They don’t need it. Just like any drugs/medical procedures, there IS a risk. I’m happy for adults to take that risk/benefit but I don’t believe kids should. This virus doesn’t affect kids and they shouldn’t be expected to take a vaccine they don’t need that ‘could’ harm them. I say ‘could’ because yes it is rare, but it is definitely there. The governments own advice makes clear that heart problems do occur and in children it’s been shown to be more prevalent than in adults. Yes, still rare. But still a danger that no one should expect their child to take. Right now, as an adult, yes flash your pass, no problem. All easy enough. But when you have to get your kids jabbed 3 times to be able to go on holiday, will people think any different? So that’s where I’m at mate. It’s all fine now, but I’m thinking further down the line and I’m not participating in anything that might mean the government think we’re all happy to comply with, so they can make it mandatory for our kids to have it as well. The kids are my red line. And as they say “it’s the hill I will die on”. Already they’ve now reduced it to 12 year olds - so as of next month, if your 12 year old isn’t jabbed, no holiday. Won’t be long til they reduce that to 5 years old. Why should 5 year olds be injected with something that has a small chance of severely harming them, to protect them against something with an even smaller chance of harming them? That’s why I’m taking my stand and not participating. Sorry everyone for the long ramble. And sorry if you disagree. That’s fine. Everyone has to have personal choice, but it shouldn’t come with consequences.”

I don’t want it for 1 individual. I want it for all covid deaths. Surely the detail of the data can inform who and why are the most vulnerable. Is that not something that is extremely important to understand.

No one has called for the person to be identifiable and be a lab rat. Most unusual accusation. it’s quite simple information that would be readily available to the person recording the death. There is no danger of anyone being identified as a result. 75 years old, female, south East Asian. BMI 35. admitted to hospital for hip replacement on 17/11. Contracted covid in hospital on 20/11. Type 2 diabetes. Treated with ‘insert relevant drug here’, transferred to icu 5/12. Died 12/12. No need to identify anyone.

It’s not. I’ve looked. Regardless. It should be shared visibly - in the media. Not hidden away. That’s what my use of the word transparent means.

What is identifiable in the data I’ve asked for? If you don’t believe in full and transparent data then you are happy for only a certain narrative to be portrayed and therefore encourage conspiratorial narratives to take hold.

Ok. So you meant over a 4 week period. You hadn’t made that specific part of the data clear from your prior post. Well done and thank you for clarifying. Could’ve done that 3 days ago though when you were first challenged on it, rather than pretending you had some insider information that no one else had. Is there anything in that information which would allow you to identify the individual? No. Therefore, no data breach. Are you against full data / information to allow an informed opinion then TripleT?

I see James54De hasn’t managed to find a shred of evidence to his quite extraordinary claim. We’re 3 days on from his post now. Is there any evidence at all for this 600% increase in hospitalisations in South Africa???? Yes, London Bristolian is absolutely right to say that. In fact, I said that a few pages ago on this very thread and for whatever reason, everything I said was dismissed. I made the same point as the one you bring forward here from London Bristolian, except that I made the point that we should’ve been implementing the capacity increase 20 months ago. As I said earlier - where is the capacity increase, where is the huge recruitment drive, where are the extra beds; extra nurses, etc etc. Will this point be dismissed again as being ‘anti-vax’? Yes, it is indeed very sad that this person has died. But it is not irresponsible to request data. We know nothing except the fact that a person has died and that they tested positive. This has been the huge problem since the very start of this in 2020 - lack of transparent data. I have a rather apt phrase here. Transparency prevents Conspiracy. We need the full data in order for everyone to have a clear and transparent reasoning behind every single death that has occurred in order for people to make their own rational risk assessment. We know some things that impact a covid death - age, health, ethnicity etc. So for every single death that has been recorded, there should be full transparent data that is easily accessible : How old was the person. What gender were they. What was their ethnicity. What was their weight - including BMI. Did they have any other serious conditions. Were they diabetic. Were they asthmatic. Had they received a vaccine. How many. Which brand. When was their last vaccine administered. When were they admitted to hospital. Did they present at hospital for another reason and were subsequently tested positive, or did they present at hospital with covid. If other, what did they present with and when did they become positive. Were they transferred to ICU. How long were they in ICU. What other treatments were administered. All of this data is relevant in order to form a rational opinion as to whether Omicron played a significant role in this death. Without data, we are blind. And people will then be able to create their own narrative. Thus a lack of data encourages conspiracy. Full, transparent and easily accessible and ‘layman’ presented data keeps everyone fully informed and thus prevents alternative narrative.

I agree, nothing will change. However, “in your heart you know I’m right”. Ha ha. You’re an ex-journo. In my heart I know you are full of crap. Anyway, just so we’re clear. “The new restrictions are pain free and a minor inconvenience”. So, this means that you are ok with discrimination. No problem if you are. That’s your bag. But I’m not. Even if that particular discrimination is easy and pain free for you.

Did I? Where? One thinks you may be mixing up your conspiracy theorists. Someone else said they’d be leaving the discussion. I certainly didn’t. How’s the head this morning? You were clearly somewhat muddled last night.

“Most mutations aren’t more dangerous, and any dangerous mutations are very rare.” No, I’m not an epidemiologist. But that’s what 100% of them will tell you.

If posters reply to me then I will respond. That’s how it works. If you want me to stop replying, then don’t bother to reply to me. It’s quite simple. I’ve answered your other points and have shown empathy to your daughter’s situation.

As per my reply above to the other poster, the solutions I’ve put forth are about health. Yes, they are long term, but at least they are about ACTUAL health. Nothing this government have implemented has anything to do with your health. Same with health services. Yes, it was never an overnight fix, but surely you’d have thought something, anything, would’ve been done by now, 20 months on. Again, absolutely nothing has been done. Covid only hospitals are the best way to prevent ‘in-hospital’ spread - which is pretty bloody rife. This needn’t impact on your existing hospitals. New builds were necessary. New kit. New staff. Again, has anything changed in this respect in 20 months. No. Where is the urgent recruitment drive to increase staffing. Where is the offer of better pay to encourage increased staffing? It’s non existent. Absolutely nothing has been done. As for the 100 miles comment, wherever they could have been situated, multiple facilities countrywide, once required it doesn’t take long to be transported 100 miles by air ambulance. I’ve answered the health-drive elsewhere but just to add it’s not authoritarian if something is rolled out with transparency and with compassion. I’m not advocating a government official in a cheap suit to knock on your door and tell you what to do, I’m taking about qualified, confident, knowledgable and personable health fanatics to support people to a better lifestyle in order for them to personally achieve better outcomes. If they don’t want to participate then that’s fine - no one would force anyone to do anything. As to your penultimate paragraph. “Stay in if you’re ill, change your life if you’re fat, take drugs if you’re sick”. Yep. That’s about the size of it. It’s a pretty damn fine strategy don’t you think. It’s kinda like the one we’ve always adopted as normal. I like the McD’s idea. I might work on that (if I had any design skills). Edit - sorry, just to add Nick. Yes, some of the things I’ve advocated are indeed longer term measures. But had we started implementing these in April 2020 when we knew the way the virus plays, then perhaps by summer 21 we could’ve been making real progress and reaping the rewards, rather than having to go back to the levels of restrictions we’ve had to endure. We’ve done 20 months and we’ve done nothing.

Thanks. I like that. It’s one of my best traits. You missed the full stop at the end of your sentence, by the way.

A) Yes I did say that. And stand by it. Not a conspiracy though. It’s happening right in front of you. B) Not trying to sew any discontent. Just stating my opinions. C) Correct. They sometime subtly raised these points. But were any of them ACTUALLY ever acted upon. No. D) No they didn’t. They shut them all down again without having ever received anyone. E) GP records clearly know who is in a vulnerable category. Honesty and transparency is better than fear, panic and hidden agendas. F) None of that would have been under threat.

And this is where you and I differ in level of detail. Yes, of course people know that. But you have to promote, promote, promote, plus if you read my other posts, identify those most at risk (ie morbidly obese) and assign them personal support - nutritionists, dieticians, wellness guru’s - sadly you can’t leave it to the unhealthy to help themselves, you need to support them closely to put them on the right path. And yes, of course it’s their choice if they don’t want to commit. And that’s the chances they take in life. Verbose? mmmm. I was asked what I thought. I gave detail. If you think it’s verbose, then you are simply either ignorant or impatient As for your 2nd paragraph - makes no sense love - how can my verbose writing mean I like the sound of my own voice. 2 totally different mediums of communication squire. Come on now Triple T - you’re better than that. Oh no, my bad. You’re not.

Ignorance will get you nowhere.