Mr Popodopolous

One thing that would be funny is if the EFL accept just enough of extra revenue losses and crucially the transfer add-backs to see us through to 2022-23. In other words a combination of that and impairment or provision for onerous contracts saw us okay. It would be funny as I imagine there would be much gnashing of teeth on Dcfcfans- probably would be an undeserved lifeline in all truth the transfer add-back thing but fun to see their reaction! I shouldn't and won't be laughing too loud or long as things can still backfire but yeah for that alone it would be funny.

Yep, two medium term injuries in fact in a period of 12 months. Hardly conducive as you say. Also see DaSilva, missed half a season in 2019-20 and I can't remember when but sure he had a medium term injury at some point last couple of years, probably suffered as a result.

Blackburn as a city have a population of 120.5k- as a percentage it's quite good. Granted some will come in from surrounding areas etc.

Sounds like well ott, I'm law abiding as we all are but sometimes the law is an ass!! Not encouraging civil disobedience of course.

Little bit surprised that this seemingly stuck, albeit one game- strikes me.as the sort of issue that could cause trouble at the turnstiles. Will be interested to know if Millwall fans will be so obliging. Granted their bad rep is perhaps something of a historical issue but they don't strike me as some who would easily accept coins and possibly expensive Vapes being confiscated.

Oh just seen- Semenyo!! Switzerland usually quite a decent side too, looked a fairly strong XI.

Yeah that would accelerate it nicely...the projected hole between the two before additions to the Covid add-backs falls significantly. Maybe down to a £4-5m hole rather than the absolutely doom saying up to £18m swing required. Maybe £2-3m only. Until we know for sure of course... I just hope the club's confidence is well-founded.

Cheers Dave, I was possibly conflating an issue or two there. I remember one or two Procedural Defences in past cases stating that "If we don't release accounts then we can't be charged" or words to that effect. I certainly am not comparing us to that. Agree with your post, no issue whatsoever to 2022 as I think we all agree, I'm intrigued as to how losses were £28m last season though as I expect we all are. What we (or others) put and what rhe EFL accept may diverge. Wonder why the loss so big though... *Big impairment *Provision for onerous contracts *Some other major exceptional item? Regarding the EFL I think they will have to take a one and all approach. ie If we get charged then Fulham, Nottingham Forest and Stoke come under scrutiny with a view to charging- whether that's possible with sides who escape to the PL is less clear- in theory it should be...

Norwich the latest to submit their accounts albeit still pending at CH. Although they usually submit early and was on their site in late October. Made a loss last seadon but well clear of FFP albeit perhaps maybe working at or closer to the lower limit. 3 weeks now since Fans Forum. I do wonder if we are refusing to release until we know or are sufficiently satisfied anyway that the EFL have accepted our Covid numbers in full and without recourse- in particular the specifics of the transfer add-backs. Granted 103 days until they are legally due out. The later they get them though, the less time for a basis they have for either charged lined up if we don't fix the hole or some sort of target to remain compliant this season. Put another way, is it possible that our numbers differ from theirs- one is compliant and one isn't. While the accounts not released they don't have a basis to charge if required. We can't technically be charged for the period ending 2022-23 yet and perhaps not until next summer or next Spring but...if they don't have audited accounts for last season then they can't even line up the basis.

In financial terms, think of them a bit like Newcastle under Ashley. Run reasonably well albeit not profitable unlike Newcastle, not investing much cash or much if any equity. New owner can then should they so choose, if they can afford put the accelerator down for a while. Bit like Hull too, but better side than Hull pre takeover. In short, if it goes through I fear so. Of course not guaranteed. He could blow their financials within 18 months to 2 years, decide he is the man and wants his own man!! Sack Robins and appoint some 'big name', or some manager with faded glories or relative novice! Or remortgage the stadium if he gains ownership- or anything really...

Yes looks like good news for them at last and if it goes through, he will be inheriting a club in a good position on and off the pitch.

Not strictly FFP but good news for Coventry. Looks like SISU are selling up. As we discussed on here before, they probably work to the lower limit or close to- no equity or a minimum between lower and higher limits. That combined with a club in a fairly good place financially AND doing well on the pitch, could give a new owner a decent platform to push the boat out. He might also be looking to buy the ground- with Wasps collapsing unsure who owns it tbh.

Yes of course, because the PL dictates the entire International landscape- a lot more International sides, you think the PL alone will supersede all that? 200 + other nations including some quite big football ones "Oh, PL/British fans are bored of it- good innings but let's call it a day". That said the location, the timing of this one all wrong.

"We deserve to be/should be higher, because delete as appropriate big city, fans who keep turning out etc etc". While context of course is everything and we have wasted opportunities, factually speaking this is the longest unbroken stint in the 2nd tier since the 1960s/1970s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bristol_City_F.C._seasons Check for yourself.. It's probably also one if the highest ratios of 2nd to 3rd tier in our history

Perhaps times have changed then, as they stopped running the 2nd tier during international breaks back in 2004-05 presumably as games were often off due to the 3 international call up rule.

Truth is, it's impossible to prove either way. Could have led to triumph, could have led to disaster, much the same or anything in between. Had he rolled the dice bigger in January 2008 though, pre FFP- well maybe we do go up that year. A missed opportunity perhaps. Otoh the Championship costs a lot so technically speaking without the cash he puts in, we'd either have to spend less or be insolvent. Then again for that, read most Championship clubs!

Something between £190-280m in those 1st 8 years!? Bloom into Brighton etc that is...possibly the aggregation of loans and share capital. £336m in Directors loans from 2009-10 to 2020-21. Then unless I'm double counting, a further £95m in shares etc again from 2009-10 to 2020-21.

Doing a bit of research and I didn't realise just how much owners could and do put in. Talking cash, equity, loans, shares etc not revenue. Brighton was mentioned- if accurate Bloom makes SL look a bit of a pauper. Shahid Khan even more so (Fulham) albeit he purchased them in the PL and they have had PL or Parachute Payments ever since 2001-02 but Bloom is a good comparison. Would be interested to know just how much Bloom put in, between 2009 and 2017. https://theathletic.com/3220632/2022/03/31/fulham-accounts-explained-93m-loss-khans-investment-up-to-440m-treading-fine-line-on-ffp/ If SL put in £217m in 20 years...well interested to see how much Bloom put in between time of takeover and promotion to PL. There is no doubt that Bloom has done things very well there but a breakdown of how and when he invested would be instructive.

Had another quick look at Stoke again and this bit I find interesting. Wasn't really covered on any analysis afaik and indeed wonder if we utilised it in 2021-22, or if any Covid numbers reworked between then and now. It appears not to have been paid during financial year/season 2020-21 so interested to see how or when it's accounted for...might have to rework my Stoke projections up or down.

While we wait for the accounts to drop it's all moot ultimately and even then we may not know the full picture depending on what the Bristol City Holdings accounts disclose- or don't! Still the concept of lost transfer revenue add-backs does interest me, we and some others have done this- as well as Nottingham Forest projecting it, see also Stoke in 2020-21, and in the PL Everton and Aston Villa. The latter selling Grealish for £100m would probably mitigate against any challenge to that part of their add-backs ie even if challenged they probably would be okay FFP wise due to the aforementioned Grealish sale. I digress but it's an interesting debate IMO- we certainly used Gain on disposal of Player Registrations (a type of Intangible asset) as away of underpinning our growing cost base within FFP/P&S but Gain on Disposal is not revenue... "Lost revenues". Gain on disposal is just that, a gain on disposal...I'd also argue that Impairment of Intangible assets..can in no way be classed as a revenue. A cost maybe. A Covid excludable? Very suspect. Gains on disposal are neither included in Operating Profit nor EBITDA. I question whether add-backs of this nature sit within FRS 102. (The gain on disposal bit, not the lost revenue). Nothing in the regs seems to specify lost profits merely lost revenues. Of course revenue and profit feed into each other in this instance fee minus book value=gain/loss on disposal but seems difficult to prove I think. Perhaps difficult to disprove as well but who would the onus fall on to prove their case in this scenario- a club or Governing body?

Plus for Atkinson to get over his bug fully, he's far better than our collective failure v Lincoln I would suggest- that said some of the makeshift back 3 setups have been quite alright so...well that's a problem for December anyway.

Now, while a) A lot of clubs are doing this and b) I don't want to shout too loud in case we do... ...As Calladine says elsewhere in the thread these tie-ups are dropping like flies, a number have been shelved but ha they are taking it on??

On that note, maybe it's the organisation executive if not necessarily the clubs at this juncture-maybe there is a divergence? Because I do recall vaguely dunno if 2020 or 2021, Richard masters the generally ineffective CEO of the PL said that "change is coming". I took it to mean independent regulation but forgot all about it. About 2 years ago in fact. https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news/premier-league-project-big-picture-b1720316.html Perhaps the PL executive see or have seen it as inevitable.

With a nod to @BigTone Condensed version: The tents have too many people in to operate the venue safely.