Mr Popodopolous

Think will also restart the shots taken to penalties awarded data at some stage ..suspect we are a massive outlier.

"Teams like" is a bit of a hmm, for me. Sides who have finished above us or similar in recent times. All the same agree to some extent as these games weren't just poor but inexplicably so. Birmingham away, Reading away and a lot of Millwall at home we were so bad...defensive errors, barely any shots and more worryingly asleep, lethargic- or it felt like that anyway. Parts of QPR at home 1at half too, 2nd half was much more like it.

Had a quick look at some records. Are we talking League only or all competitive games? Read online that Galway went 72 without, dunno if just League or Cups etc too. Anyway Port Vale went maybe 59 League games without one from late April 2021 to late September, mid October 2022...73 in all competitions! Then proceeded to get 2 in a game and 3 in the next 8 League games overall. League games wise it's 50 so far, 54 in all competitions. Fairly sure Burnley went sometime without one too but not able to find more detail on that one.

I'd argue the Swansea game being a draw was fair although I mostly agree on your post.

Always thought @BCFCGav was a bit more of a positive poster. Anyway that aside... We lose at Rotherham? We beat Stoke at home the following Saturday! Barring FFP disaster falling during this season, I doubt NP takes us down so I'm fairly relaxed about him remaining in charge, I think he'll see us okay.

Good point well made...August. Another good stat, we were awarded the least penalties in a given period per big chance created of numerous top 2 division sides in Eurioe. However the graph was mentioned mid Jan 2022- wonder about now??

Possibly the one in the vid might have been deemed a bit soft.

Thought the high foot on Wells definitely was. My suggestion elsewhere was to get right back onto the backs off officials from early, really get into them. Call for plenty...not just big pen shouts either.

Might a fully fit Shaun Taylor for the whole seasom habe swung things in our favour? We certainly picked up pts and defensively when he returned in April. Still lacked some luck...WBA away, Sunderland home, Birmingham home iirc timekeeping and officiating were not in our favour- he was injured for the 1st 2 however.

The only q is, are we including Cup games? Because of the schedule this year it's now 50 and counting without a League penalty.

He is much improved tnis year, like big money DaSilva and Wells, he looked on the way out, like the latter. Difference is that he didn't have a big price tag, or rep- great to see his renaissance and that of O'Leary too- credit to NP for both giving the fresh chance and bringing it out of them.

Sheffield United game was probably more of a battering but we would have been worthy. IMO of course.

We didn't batter them but worthy of the win for sure.

I really would like to see us as fans get tight into officials, more often. Properly noisy, unpleasant- on their back early. They give us **** all, let's make it hell in so far as possible

November 6th 2021 at Coventry. Last home penalty, 31st October 2020 at home to Norwich (Covid, behind closed doors). Last home penalty with fans, 29th December 2019 at home to Luton.

Very good today, the shape was goods the reaction from Tuesday was on point. Made a Watford side packed wirh internationals look fairly average, crowd ramped up the volume at times- we seemed cohesive again. Surely denied a clear penalty once more...

This is a very good spot @Davefevs Yes we may have included it in our estimates for FFI. Definitely not the same as Birmingham with Che Adams. I remember debates over Derby and the mooted Revaluation Reserve being added to the profit for 2017-18 though and this same sheet was cited. There is no box for 'added-back' transfer profits as there wasn't for Revaluation Reserve. I think it's still debatable as to inclusion for us and others. Come to that, Profit or Loss on Fixed asset is also appearing in Profit or Loss before tax. Neither are recurring or can be guaranteed. I'm open minded as to this issue though.

I don't see what would be wrong with a list of some kind on EFL website, detailing criteria: *Gate receipts foregone and refunded *Season ticket revenue foregone and refunded *Matchday revenue foregone *Commercial revenue foregone and refunded *Corporate revenue foregone *Events revenue foregone and refunded. Anything else?

It's never been confirmed crystal clear whether it's been allowed or not and this is part of the problem really. £30m in 2 or 3 seasons feels toppy, Stoke's is off the charts and surely if that flies then so does ours, Fulham Impairment, Nottingham Forest etc. There was an article in March the day that Nottingham Forest posted £30-35m in losses for 2020-21 that said the EFL were considering it. Funng how it said they were considering it when Nottingham Forest posted similar...had it been just us I wonder??

I'm still highly interested in how the transfer add-back argument as I really doubt it. Us, and some others: "We believe that the collapse of the transfer market has cost us £x. We ate into and offset losses through profits on disposal which enables us to spend more". EFL: "Markets go down as well as up". Us, and some others: "But Covid..." EFL: "A risky strategy to be relied on- manager of one of the sides even labelled it as 'bonkers'. "Why should it be, or Impairment to be excluded from that and subsequently the amortisation that was assigned to Covid from future years, be included in P&S calculations. "Profits on disposal of fixed assets are not anymore. Neither are revaluation reserves- so why should although football related, the hypothetical 'add-back' of lost profits in the transfer market be'? Objectively it should go to a IDC to determine the validity of the issue. We and perhaps others present our numbers WITH transfer add-backs, the EFL without and it should be determined there. Either that or the EFL charge us and others with excess losses if excluded add-backs of transfer revenue take us over. For example if our losses without showed a £10m overspend it's a 'deemed breach' and you charge on that basis. IDC etc can determine the actual issue.

Accounts yes don't always show the full picture and abbreviated accounts even more so...careful what we all post all on a public forum I guess but are you suggesting something else? Because clearly the BCH accounts are different to the CLUB accounts, as they contain more than just the club related activities- the stand alone cost v income of the commercial side would be interesting to know as the BCH accounts would include club allocated commercial plus football side for costs and revenue. Have a couple of conspiracy theory type thoughts in mind but would be getting into dangerous territory as a public forum etc. No idea if they would even be true either!! Offsetting of losses is possible of course but you only get a bit back via the company itself through this.

Not under their present ownership they haven't. Not at all. Birmingham Autumn 2016, Inherited a lowish loss making and top half Championship side under Rowett. That's a good foundation with which to give it a bit of a go, Birmingham a reasonable sized club too. Somehow within 18 months or so and 4 or 5 managers later they'd failed FFP and were under an embargo, points docked. Nearly went down twice and multiple relegation scraps in that period...all that money and for what. Derby Wow, check the League table when he arrived. Up near the top, playing excellent football- in or around the play-offs for years...some losses but not huge. Tbh they did reach 3 x playoffs including a final before things started to unravel... ..Wow though when they unravelled this happened rapidly! Legal disputes, failure to fund the club correctly during Covid (MSD), nearly went down in 2020-21, relegation, including more legal disputes, deductions for FFP AND administration in the same season (unprecedented)! No accounts released for years. To say nothing of unpaid creditors. All that money and for what. Reading Inherited a play-off final side. Overachieved that year yes, Parachute Payments running out yes but why wouldn't you give it a bit of a go. He did tbh, some of it folly. Ever bigger losses, and he helped to offset these by selling the stadium twice ie once to Holding company, once from there to his external company, see also old training ground and land around the ground for sale. Loaned Aluko to his (now bankrupt) Chinese club... Refused to sell players at the right time- see Swift- which meant he lost Richards on a free to Bayern, due to EFL wage limits imposed over FFP issues. Could have got a decent fee for him and a better one for Olise if not for EFL wage limits. £100-150m in 4 seasons and for what. Failing FFP, Business Plan, 2 relegation battles, numerous managers. All that money.. ..Having said that he does now seem to own all of Reading's fixed assets. In a costly part of the world. Sheffield Wednesday A bit like Birmingham, Chansiri inherited a stable if an unspectacular base. Playoff final year 1, semi final year 2 but then things truly unravelled. Aimed for the stars...missed. Year 3 things stalled and there were huge injuries (familiar). Found they were on course to breach FFP hugely, botched a stadium sale and leaseback as we know and over a year on they were charged- legal claims and counter claims, eventually got a 12 point deduction (halved to 6). This deduction relegated them, first deduction in their history, also took out loans secured against Hillsborough which is a red flag perhaps- either rolled over x 2 or 3 different ones. Went full circle by losing the (League One) play-offs in 2021-22...All that money and for what.

Yet Bristol City Holdings is usually a loss making entity no? Otoh most of the costs will be from the football side of things. Not really looked at it but an interesting exercise in so far as possible would be to try and strip out all of the footballing costs from those of BCH ie events etc although not all expenses are cash of course. Sale price net of expenditure to date on Profit on £214m and counting? Certainly can think of ways but from sale of it all? Loan repayments and potentially interest payments are another side of the ledger of course, potentially.

You sure...how much did Morris throw at Derby and in what timeframe? Dai Yongge at Reading seems to pour money down the drain, unsure how Birmingham have been financed under BSH. Funny thing is, these 3 inherited markedly better positions than they now find themselves. I would add Chansiri but I know absolutely that he has out in less than £214m...a lot of money all the same for Sheffield Wednesday given their crash under him. Still he inherited a relatively stable position...as did BSH at Birmingham.

Plus to make matters worse, could that extra £2-3m for this tip us from just about compliance to a £2-3m breach say...points deduction?