Tom Fleuriot Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 I was chatting to somebody and he made some comments that I thought I'd send out there. Lots of people say "you're not a real fan" or a "true fan", but how is this defined? I'd say a fan is "an enthusiastic devotee, follower, or admirer of a sport, pastime, celebrity." A true fan would be someone who always want City to win and loves the club. A supporter is " an adherent, follower, backer, or advocate." or "a person or thing that supports". A true supporter is therefore someone who advocates the club's case rather than their own interpretation of what the club's case should be. So, if you complain about the club, or criticise it for events that are not material to the existence of the club (eg if you complain about team selection, results, players rather than boardroom shenannigans), I think you could say that you're a fan but not a true supporter. If you relentlessly cheer the club but know very little about the club then you're a supporter but not a true fan. I'd call myself a fan and a supporter (of course I would), because I watch the games and enjoy them rather than seeking to evaluate, judge, or shout at LJ / young players. Plus I know a daft amount about the team of the 1970s despite not having been born at the time. People who are critical of the club are perfectly legitimate fans of the club who are entitled to thir opinions. But one could make a strong case for saying they're not true supporters of the club. To me this raises the question of at what point criticism can be supportive? I'd say anything that attacks the team rather than suggesting improvements is unsupportive. Comments about whether better pies could be brought in would still be okay. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 I'm a fan of Arsenal - I love the way they play football but I don't support them. I'm a supporter of Bristol City - I buy a ST, put money and time into the club in other ways and follow everything that goes on within the club. Like others, I see City as 'my' club. I have not nor ever will support another club. Bristol City is a part of my identity and thats why I have strong opinions about what goes on - on and off the pitch. Critism is sometimes apart of an opinion and equally as valid as praise is. Thats the difference imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuedgeRed Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 I'd say anything that attacks the team rather than suggesting improvements is unsupportive. Surely anyone has the right to point out what they deem to be weakneses, without necessarily having the answers to correct those weaknesses? In doing so I would say it could be just as supportive as unsupportive. It depends on the content of the original veiws expressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Fleuriot Posted August 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 I'm a fan of Arsenal - I love the way they play football but I don't support them. I'm a supporter of Bristol City - I buy a ST, put money and time into the club in other ways and follow everything that goes on within the club. Like others, I see City as 'my' club. I have not nor ever will support another club. Bristol City is a part of my identity. Thats the difference imo. But my question is whether comments such as (and I'm sorry for using this example but it's an obvious one) "Johnson's a conference manager" are supporting the club or actually detract from your ability to call yourself a "true" supporter (in the sense of the word "support")? I'd suggest that; Putting money into the club makes you a customer. Following everything in the club makes you a huge fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Fleuriot Posted August 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Surely anyone has the right to point out what they deem to be weakneses, without necessarily having the answers to correct those weaknesses? In doing so I would say it could be just as supportive as unsupportive. It depends on the content of the original veiws expressed. But being supportive would be having faith in the management team's ability to identify these weaknesses and correct them? I think that things like BB's match reports make sense. But if the weakness identified is "he can't cut it at this level" I'd suggest you're not spotting a weakness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockin-robin Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 "Fan" by nature of the word means FANATICAL, ie is mad about a sport, team, player etc etc and will go above and beyond what a "supporter" of a sport, team, player etc etc would do. Anyone can be a "supporter" of something. i.e. advocates what they are doing and will support it most of the time. There is however not a huge difference between the two but can often be confused by those who profess to be a FAN of something. For example, Man Utd has a lot of "supporters" but not fans because 50% will never go to one of their games, will never put money into the club, and will not go to bed extremly angry/dissapointed when they lose. I like using the word "follower" as oposed to "supporter" because it means more accurately what these people do (including myself). Eg, I am FANATICAL about BCFC and want them to win at all costs. I put huge amounts of time and money into the club and will be very angry and upset when they lose. However, I also FOLLOW Arsenal and will watch/listen out for their results. I, on the otherhand, do not really care about them and if City were to play them, I want the CITY to hammer them 10 nil. Thats how I think of it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 It's all the same to me. Someone gan go to all the games or none, if they like City that's good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuedgeRed Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 But being supportive would be having faith in the management team's ability to identify these weaknesses and correct them? Yeah. I'd go along with that. But a supporter can dislike a management philosophy. Take for instance when Pullis was manager. Surely the club still had supporters, but not many were supportive, especially towards the end ? In other words can someone be a supportive supporter or an unsupportive supporter? :noexpression: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Fleuriot Posted August 3, 2008 Author Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Yeah. I'd go along with that. But a supporter can dislike a management philosophy. Take for instance when Pullis was manager. Surely the club still had supporters, but not many were supportive, especially towards the end ? In other words can someone be a supportive supporter or an unsupportive supporter? :noexpression: But what makes you a supporter if you're not supportive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eddie Hitler Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 It's all the same to me. Someone gan go to all the games or none, if they like City that's good enough for me. Snap. As soon as anybody starts on the "I'm a bigger fan than you are" line to justify an argument they've lost me. I like the noisy Eastend, the quiet but loyal Williams season-ticket holder of long-standing, the kids in the Dolman, the overseas World subscribers, the armchair fans, the people who look out for the results on a Sunday, the ST and SC stalwarts. All City. All welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuedgeRed Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 But what makes you a supporter if you're not supportive? IMO someone could support a club whilst disliking a particular manager or player. There are managers who work against their clubs best interests and/or their club's chairman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bristol City 93 Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 I'm a fan of Arsenal - I love the way they play football but I don't support them. I'm a supporter of Bristol City - I buy a ST, put money and time into the club in other ways and follow everything that goes on within the club. Like others, I see City as 'my' club. I have not nor ever will support another club. Bristol City is a part of my identity and thats why I have strong opinions about what goes on - on and off the pitch. Critism is sometimes apart of an opinion and equally as valid as praise is. Thats the difference imo. Exactly the same here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East End Lad Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 I would agree with what Robbered said. I'm a fan of Newcastle but support City, they are my team and always will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boadle Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Plus I know a daft amount about the team of the 1970s despite not having been born at the time. Why is this, just out of interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezgimed Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 There is a difference between some City fans and others, but its all down to personal choice aint it. I hope to renew my ST every year now till I die, and will check the OS everyday, will go to an away game if funds allow whether its Chesterfield or Chelsea, but I wont sacrifice my entire disposable income for a month to follow the lads away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Horsman Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 I don't feel the need to define what or who I am in relation to my love for Bristol City, but that, whatever it might be, never stopped me hating Pulis when he was our manager. I am a football fan, I enjoy watching at all levels as a neutral but City is MY team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplyRed Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 The term "fan" is a contraction of the word "fanatic". For me, a "fanatic" will eat, drink and sleep the subject of his fanaticism, be it football, religion or anything else. A "fanatic" will spends vast amounts of time, energy and money on his subject, possibly to the detriment of other things in their life. I am not a "fanatic" of Bristol City or anything else in my life. I like to think I have a balanced outlook! Even though I have "supported" the team for some 47 years, it does not take prime place in my life and my family and other interests are allocated their own amounts of my time, energy and money. I will always "support" Bristol City because they are my team. Like thousands of others, they were introduced to me as a child by my father. I like to watch all levels of professional and amateur football (including the Premier League - I have "followed" Spurs since the 1962 Cup Final), but City is "my team". I classify myself as a football supporter in general, supporting Bristol City in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fRed Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 Interesting. I don't really understand the meaning of the word "fan". I "follow" City and Villa and Swansea to an extent. A lot of this is down to how you're brought up, you'll understand this when you get older. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted August 3, 2008 Report Share Posted August 3, 2008 BCFC is integral to my identity........ WE ARE THE PEOPLE !! As is standard in life or at least this society, there's one or two t!t's that you have to ignore.... hello Seend On the whole I see this place as a circus freaquented by one too many egomaniacs (for my liking) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 I/We are Bristol City Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Mat Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 The term "fan" is a contraction of the word "fanatic". For me, a "fanatic" will eat, drink and sleep the subject of his fanaticism, be it football, religion or anything else. A "fanatic" will spends vast amounts of time, energy and money on his subject, possibly to the detriment of other things in their life. I am not a "fanatic" of Bristol City or anything else in my life. I like to think I have a balanced outlook! My God, how many times has this old chestnut come round on here then, eh? And every time I explain it no-one listens! The word 'fan' is NOT a contraction of the word 'fanatic'. It can actually be traced back to the late 19th century when, generally, middle-class young men with slightly too much time and money on their hands would take up an interest or a hobby or, as in the old-fashioned context of the word, a 'fancy'. Something that took their attention. This, over time, became shortened to 'fan'. So in actual fact the two meanings are very different; one suggests someone who is totally dedicated to something, the other suggests someone who merely has a passing interest in something, or sees it as a fad. Really, then, the word 'supporter' actually sounds and probably means someone who is far more dedicated than someone who has a passing 'fancy' in something. But how and why pigeon-hole yourself or others as something as specific as that anyway?!? If you like a team, you like a team, why should it matter how much? The chances are no matter how much you like or are dedicated to a team, there's always going to be someone far more obsessed than you anyway! And in the same manner, the chances are there will always be plenty of people far less obsessed than you, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 The term "fan" is a contraction of the word "fanatic". For me, a "fanatic" will eat, drink and sleep the subject of his fanaticism, be it football, religion or anything else. A "fanatic" will spends vast amounts of time, energy and money on his subject, possibly to the detriment of other things in their life. I am not a "fanatic" of Bristol City or anything else in my life. I like to think I have a balanced outlook! Even though I have "supported" the team for some 47 years, it does not take prime place in my life and my family and other interests are allocated their own amounts of my time, energy and money. I will always "support" Bristol City because they are my team. Like thousands of others, they were introduced to me as a child by my father. I like to watch all levels of professional and amateur football (including the Premier League - I have "followed" Spurs since the 1962 Cup Final), but City is "my team". I classify myself as a football supporter in general, supporting Bristol City in particular. Bill Shankly one commented, 'Some people believe football is a matter of life and death. I'm very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that.' For some people their fanatical support means just that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhyde Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 I don't feel the need to define what or who I am in relation to my love for Bristol City, but that, whatever it might be, never stopped me hating Pulis when he was our manager. I am a football fan, I enjoy watching at all levels as a neutral but City is MY team That's interesting as you have City Ultras till we die on your signature. Clearly placing you as part of a sub group of people who are fans of and support City. You've defined yourself as an "Ultra" Fans follow the team when they play. I think a supporter follows the team intensely outside of the time when football is on. Either by putting effort into improving the club, or just generally caring enough to find out about it everyday by coming on here and clicking refresh on the main site! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimplyRed Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 My God, how many times has this old chestnut come round on here then, eh? And every time I explain it no-one listens! The word 'fan' is NOT a contraction of the word 'fanatic'. It can actually be traced back to the late 19th century when, generally, middle-class young men with slightly too much time and money on their hands would take up an interest or a hobby or, as in the old-fashioned context of the word, a 'fancy'. Something that took their attention. This, over time, became shortened to 'fan'. Well, I don't know what your source is, but the Oxford English dictionary agrees with me: Fan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I BELIEVE Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Well let's just say your not a real man utd supporter if you live in London, never seen them play, don't follow thier results and don't even know who the frickin manager is. people like that really annoy me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizmo666 Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 The problem is we are all individuals (which is so often forgotten because of the pack ethos of football) following the same thing - a football club... To each and every one of us 'fan' or 'supporter' has personal baggage. To me they can not be torn apart. They are one of the same but the spectrum of their influence upon an individual depends on that person - their history, their state of mind; Some fans feel the need to bash other fans over the head... Some of us rant they are not fans... This subject keeps coming up because it is so complex - because as the 'football is more important than that' quote points out so clearly - it is an important part of so many peoples lives that to put us into camps of 'fan' or 'supporter' does not begin to scrap the surface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezgimed Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Bill Shankly one commented, 'Some people believe football is a matter of life and death. I'm very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that.' For some people their fanatical support means just that! And that IMO is one of the stupidest quotes ever made, its just a game after all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
westy Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 very simple being a supporter requires you to give money or time to a club thus supporting it!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider head Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 Bill Shankly one commented, 'Some people believe football is a matter of life and death. I'm very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that.' For some people their fanatical support means just that! top quality quote that and should be used to raise the passion amongst the fans and dressing room and not to be taken literally! same as FIGHT for every ball, BATTLE for the ball! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted August 4, 2008 Report Share Posted August 4, 2008 And that IMO is one of the stupidest quotes ever made, its just a game after all. Not diasagreeing with you there Dez, especially when you puit football up against wars , famine , natural disasters and himan suffering of any kind. However, there are many for whom football is the single most important thing in their lives, and for who Shankley's quote is completely appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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