Right For The Team But Not The Dressing Room?

[Seend Red]

Not at all sensitive, just think the constant slagging off of one of our own players is bad enough without bringing in to question Johnson's integrity, which is what suggestions of nepotism do.

I don't agree, Aswell as being our manager he's also a father so I understand it must be hard for Gary to look on Lee with out being slighty bias towards him. you won't like it but it's only natural you'd look out for your own. This is the very reason it makes me uneasy when managers play there own kids.

And on the second point, Elliott had experience at right back for Millwall; the alternative was moving Carey to right-back - in a position in which he never excelled, and bringing Vasko in at centre back - completely disrupting our defensive line. And, he probably wanted to go for the more creative option (please don't start) given we were one down.

Elliott was our star man in the middle all season, he was our engine and the drving force of our team, to put him at right back was criminal and was done for one reason and one reason only. In essence Marvelous Marvin was sacrificed and put at right back so Lee could come on.

Like you said yourself we had defenders on the bench.

[Tunley Legend]

The same "... show respect to the players" has been put forward for a lack of credible action in the transfer window this time which saw us sign a 19 year old with promise [how would you feel right now if you were Myrie-Williams or Plummer?].

How would I feel if I was Myrie-Williams or Plummer?

If I was Myrie-Williams I would feel slightly aggrieved that the Academy coaching system had let me down to the extent that I reached first team level without a decent first touch to speak of. Although I would also accept that it was my job to sort that out in my own time as well. I would also see that my direct competition is Michael McIndoe, the best footballer at the club, and be very grateful that I am well on the way to obtaining invaluable experience from 100 or so league games at League 1 level prior to coming back to Bristol City and really challenging for a place.

And if I was Tristan Plummer I would have to take a look at John Akinde and see that the lad has scored 10 goals in only 20 starts at a level that is only just below where I am playing at the minute - a level where I have only been able to notch once. I would see the new lad as a real threat to my future at the club and work my nuts off more than I have ever have before in my life to try and get to a stage where both I AND JOHN AKINDE are the future strikeforce at the club.

Better than feeling sorry for yourself don't you think?

[CiderHider]

How would I feel if I was Myrie-Williams or Plummer?

If I was Myrie-Williams I would feel slightly aggrieved that the Academy coaching system had let me down to the extent that I reached first team level without a decent first touch to speak of. Although I would also accept that it was my job to sort that out in my own time as well. I would also see that my direct competition is Michael McIndoe, the best footballer at the club, and be very grateful that I am well on the way to obtaining invaluable experience from 100 or so league games at League 1 level prior to coming back to Bristol City and really challenging for a place.

And if I was Tristan Plummer I would have to take a look at John Akinde and see that the lad has scored 10 goals in only 20 starts at a level that is only just below where I am playing at the minute - a level where I have only been able to notch once. I would see the new lad as a real threat to my future at the club and work my nuts off more than I have ever have before in my life to try and get to a stage where both I AND JOHN AKINDE are the future strike force at the club.

Better than feeling sorry for yourself don't you think?

Well said Greebo. The glass is half full.

A positive mental attitude is the only way young players will ever better themselves, getting all sulky might make you feel better momentarily, but its short lived, and the brief sympathy you get will never improve your situation.

Richard Keogh is sadly a great example of this.

[PhatWill]

Let be honest! Johnsons hand was forced on this issue, whilst LJ was out injured Carle played very well including the play-off semi's against Palace, Carle had become undropable, he wasn't going to drop our best midfilder Elliott either so there was little other option than to start junior on the bench. And lets not forget Lee still got 45 minutes.

For you to suggest LJ is the catalist behind our success leaves me dumbfounded.

Carle didn't play that well in the home leg, he gave away a pen that could have cost us our place at Wembley.

If it's nepotism then I'd have though GJ would've played LJ no matter what wouldn't he? LJ was fit enough.

The reality is of course it's not nepotism and LJ has played his part in two fantastic seasons for BCFC.

Anyway I'm totally bored of the LJ debate, if people don't rate him then fair's fair. But this nepotism stuff royally pisses me off, and I'm suprised there's still a few that believe it as I don't think there's many other managers in the football league that have demonstrated as much integrity as GJ.

[windmillhillred]

If it's nepotism then I'd have though GJ would've played LJ no matter what wouldn't he? LJ was fit enough.

Exactly - certainly more likely than hoping somebody - anybody - got injured so he could chuck Lee on, as Seend seems to believe. As you say, I have no problem with those who don't rate Johnson, just the ones who talk nonsense about our manager.

[redfred]

A whole thread basically questioning the greatest manager we've had in thirty years and possibly ever had and of course his son had to be dragged in as well.

Unbelievable. And yes, i know this is a forum and you discuss things on it, but this is ridiculous.

[yessir]

Tad sentitive aren't we....Lee, Johnson, Junior, midget, dwarf, leprechaun, dwarf, homunculus, miniaure, munchkin, pygmy, small, tiny,elf,sprite...........does it really matter! you know who I mean you old woman

And to your second point a central midfielder for a right back?

Whats your real problem seend, you wouldn't know how to support something even if you were a girder,sort your self out son no one should be so fcking sad

[walshy-shuffle-carl-shutt]

I don't agree, Aswell as being our manager he's also a father so I understand it must be hard for Gary to look on Lee with out being slighty bias towards him. you won't like it but it's only natural you'd look out for your own. This is the very reason it makes me uneasy when managers play there own kids.

Elliott was our star man in the middle all season, he was our engine and the drving force of our team, to put him at right back was criminal and was done for one reason and one reason only. In essence Marvelous Marvin was sacrificed and put at right back so Lee could come on.

Like you said yourself we had defenders on the bench.

How do you have the termerity to call yoursel a City fan. Lee Johnson's injury was IMO one of the factors that we didnt get promoted. Nerves played a serious part. Darius Fat **** Hendersons challenge was disgraceful and he should have walked but waht proved to be more costly was the loss of LJ we missed him sorely. For you any many others to openly slag off a BRISTOL CITY player beggars belief. You and your Alan dicks brigade would love to drive out Gary j, but why so we can get back to what exactly years or frustation and under achieving.

I am afraid years of moaning at the team gave you and many others at the gate(including me i might add.) a sense of purpose and solidarty. Now times have changed and i have embraced them. I knew a few people who gave up there season tickets after Brighton playoff game but now like me are FULLY behind the team and have embraced the new positive energy surrounding the club. That Gary J has installed in everyone at the club from the top to the bottom whithout that BELIEF we would still be in league one being tipped for promotion but not actually ever getting anywhere near.

I will still winge at players now and again I'm always very animated at games and shout whichever stand I'm in even if i do get the odd funny look now and again. I think that history of the club should be respected but you should not live in the past and be secretly delighted we didnt get promoted so you can hark on about the good old days of the 1970's. It seems some fans want to belong to a group who can say i supported them when they were up there you didnt and that somehow makes you part of an exclusive club you don't want anyone else to join. How very sad for you.

2008 is the year now and times are good trying living in them times are good let flow over and be proud to be apart of it. When the are gone you wil be saying how did that happen? where have they gone?

Channel you misguided hatred in to positive energy and together we will move forward.

[edson]

Elliott was our star man in the middle all season, he was our engine and the drving force of our team, to put him at right back was criminal and was done for one reason and one reason only. In essence Marvelous Marvin was sacrificed and put at right back so Lee could come on.

You're right to say it was done for one reason and one reason only. It was done to maximise our chances of winning a game in which we trailed one nil.

What substitution would you have made?

Like you said yourself we had defenders on the bench.

Defenders? Plural? Don't think so.

[bully]

This is what really annoys me about the Johnson argument. Why 'junior' - why not 'Lee'? It brings in a completely unnecessary and pathetic accusation of nepotism. Oh, and he got 45 minutes because - and only because - Orr was injured. Simple really.

Yeah - Orr was injured - I didn't see the logic of that particular substitution to be honest.

[bully]

How would I feel if I was Myrie-Williams or Plummer?

And if I was Tristan Plummer I would have to take a look at John Akinde and see that the lad has scored 10 goals in only 20 starts at a level that is only just below where I am playing at the minute - a level where I have only been able to notch once. I would see the new lad as a real threat to my future at the club and work my nuts off more than I have ever have before in my life to try and get to a stage where both I AND JOHN AKINDE are the future strikeforce at the club.

Better than feeling sorry for yourself don't you think?

Akinde is a completely different type of player to Tristan - it's like comparing Dele with Nicky Maynard.

I wouldn't therefore think that signing John Akinde means anything to Tristan.

[Seend Red]

Whats your real problem seend, you wouldn't know how to support something even if you were a girder,sort your self out son no one should be so fcking sad

How dare you.

I've followed City all over the country and have had a ST for as many years as I care to remember, What give's you the right to question my support just because I question Lee playing week in week out regardless of his form on a forum. Truth hurts I guess!

I'll still be here supporting my team long after you've gone. Brown nosing the manager and his son doesn't equate to great support in my eyes, without doubt Gary has done very well since his arrival but that should not make him beyond reproach.

You're right to say it was done for one reason and one reason only. It was done to maximise our chances of winning a game in which we trailed one nil.

What substitution would you have made?

So your honestly telling me sticking Elliott at right back didn't seem a little strange to you? Why not just put Vasko on and shuffle the back line rather than losing your best midfielder?

Defenders? Plural?

Point being we a had a defender on the bench. Why sacrifice you BEST midfielder if your trying to win the game?

[Riaz]

So your honestly telling me sticking Elliott at right back didn't seem a little strange to you? Why not just put Vasko on and shuffle the back line rather than losing your best midfielder?

well, Elliott was the only player who had played at right back in his career..... He played RB in a F.A. Cup final!!

[bully]

well, Elliott was the only player who had played at right back in his career..... He played RB in a F.A. Cup final!!

Louis Carey could surely have done the job and we would have kept Marvin where he was sorely needed.

Academic discussion now of course.

[bh_red]

Whats your real problem seend, you wouldn't know how to support something even if you were a girder,sort your self out son no one should be so fcking sad

Harsh, but fair.......

[bh_red]

Louis Carey could surely have done the job and we would have kept Marvin where he was sorely needed.

Academic discussion now of course.

which would have meant weakening the defence due to moving our best defender out of position.

If McCombe hadn't gone down ill night before and had started, the chances are he would have brought on Fontaine and Moved Carey to right back which would have kept the defence solid, however instead the other option was Vasko, a centre defence partnership of Vasko and Fontaine would have got battered against Campbell and Windass.

for the record considering the bench, I thought at the time it was the most sensisble decision and still do now, it's just a shame Wilson wasn't on the bench.

Other way, i agreed with the decision at the time and still do now, despite losing and that comes from someone who is not a fan of LJ in the slightest.

[Riaz]

Louis Carey could surely have done the job and we would have kept Marvin where he was sorely needed.

Academic discussion now of course.

I'm not saying It was right or wrong, but I can see why Elliott went to right back.

[easton boy]

Bloody hell people - this is like the 6 degrees of seperation.

Starts off talking about Gj's ability to manage "big" personalities(good topic - but not one I agree with), descends to LJ bashing and then to the Play-off final.

Talk about going off topic

[PhatWill]

How dare you.

I've followed City all over the country and have had a ST for as many years as I care to remember, What give's you the right to question my support just because I question Lee playing week in week out regardless of his form on a forum. Truth hurts I guess!

I'll still be here supporting my team long after you've gone. Brown nosing the manager and his son doesn't equate to great support in my eyes, without doubt Gary has done very well since his arrival but that should not make him beyond reproach.

'Bit sensitive aren't we?'

LJ was there ready for selection to start at Wembley but wasn't picked. Just face the fact.

[Nibor]

So your honestly telling me sticking Elliott at right back didn't seem a little strange to you? Why not just put Vasko on and shuffle the back line rather than losing your best midfielder?

Point being we a had a defender on the bench. Why sacrifice you BEST midfielder if your trying to win the game?

Bringing on Vasko against a front line of Campbell and Windass would have seen us lose by several. He was very shakey as a defender and leaving him up against massive pace and huge experience would have been idiotic.

If you think that GJ is playing his son just because he's his son and not because he honestly believes the team functions better with him in the side then frankly you're showing a complete lack of understanding of the game and doing a great disservice to the best manager we've had in my lifetime.

There are two things LJ brings to the side that make him very valuable and they are things that nobody else in the squad does.

Firstly his set pieces are excellent and create goals, I'd have a sly bet that we've scored more goals off set pieces in the two years he's been here than in the five preceding.

Secondly LJ makes himself available to the defenders ALL THE TIME. None of our other midfielders do this and when LJ isn't in the side the number of long balls they hit under pressure losing us possession far more often is noticeable even to the least observant - or so I thought.

LJ isn't a perfect player by any stretch but he is a good one and the suggestion he's picked due to nepotism is absolutely ludicrous.

[edson]

Bringing on Vasko against a front line of Campbell and Windass would have seen us lose by several. He was very shakey as a defender and leaving him up against massive pace and huge experience would have been idiotic.

Quite.

Hull also had pace to burn on the bench in Folan and Fagan, so there was no respite even after the substitutions.

Vasko was, as I recall, the only fit defender available on the day, following McCombe's illness.

From events since (i.e. GJ's decision to release Vasko), it's fairly obvious the manager hadn't been impressed and certainly didn't fancy him in a reshuffled back four.

Weighing it up in the brief time he had, GJ obviously felt that it was better to sacrifice Elliott to right back than lose Carey from the heart of the defence. He also clearly hoped that adding Lee to midfield would help our ball retention, which in turn would ease the pressure on the defence.

If you think that GJ is playing his son just because he's his son and not because he honestly believes the team functions better with him in the side then frankly you're showing a complete lack of understanding of the game and doing a great disservice to the best manager we've had in my lifetime.

That is the crux of the problem I have with the counter argument.

It's one thing to say GJ made an error of judgement in moving Elliott to right back. It's quite another to say he did it to give his lad a big day out ay Wembley and is, quite frankly, insulting to a manager who has worked wonders at this club.

There are two things LJ brings to the side that make him very valuable and they are things that nobody else in the squad does.

Firstly his set pieces are excellent and create goals, I'd have a sly bet that we've scored more goals off set pieces in the two years he's been here than in the five preceding.

Agreed. I find it extrodinary that some people value set piece assists as less valuable than open play assists.

Secondly LJ makes himself available to the defenders ALL THE TIME. None of our other midfielders do this and when LJ isn't in the side the number of long balls they hit under pressure losing us possession far more often is noticeable even to the least observant - or so I thought.

Whatever LJ's weaknesses (giving the ball away in sill positions trying a fancy pass being the obvious one), he is brave as a lion. Not many people I know would shoulder the amount of criticism and accusations he has to tolerates, yet still make themselves constantly available to bail defenders out of trouble again and again.

LJ isn't a perfect player by any stretch but he is a good one and the suggestion he's picked due to nepotism is absolutely ludicrous.

It is ludicrous, embarrassing and an insult to the player and manager.

[bully]

"Brave as a lion"? - I haven't heard LJ described as that by even his staunchest fans before.

[GrahamC]

"Brave as a lion"? - I haven't heard LJ described as that by even his staunchest fans before.

I suppose it depends on how you view having to carry out your chosen profession with braindead halfwits shouting abuse at you at every possible opportunity, doesn't it?

[edson]

"Brave as a lion"? - I haven't heard LJ described as that by even his staunchest fans before.

Brave in terms of his willingness to take the ball in difficult positions, rather than hide. And to shoulder that responsibility in the face of excessive criticism and accusations of nepotism.

[bully]

I suppose it depends on how you view having to carry out your chosen profession with braindead halfwits shouting abuse at you at every possible opportunity, doesn't it?

I think that abuse comes with the territory as a professional footballer (or manager) doesn't it?

Even players at the top level cop it (Frank Lampard)

Do you think LJ is in the slightest bit bothered by what some of the crowd think? - he has never been dropped in over 200 games by our manager who clearly rates him and is the one he should be afraid of, so i'm unsure where the bravery comes into it to be honest.

[bully]

1.Brave in terms of his willingness to take the ball in difficult positions, rather than hide. 2.And to shoulder that responsibility in the face of excessive criticism and accusations of nepotism.

1. That's what he's supposed to be in the team to do .

2. As I have just posted, I don't think he is bothered in the slightest by criticism from anyone other than the manager - which is how it should be if you are a professional footballer.

[edson]

1. That's what he's supposed to be in the team to do .

2. As I have just posted, I don't think he is bothered in the slightest by criticism from anyone other than the manager - which is how it should be if you are a professional footballer.

Yes, it's what he's supposed to do, and he continues to do it very well 99% of the time.

The fact he isn't bothered by it and continues to contribute to the team is just further testament to his strength of character and bravery, not a counter argument to it.

A lesser person would be fazed by it and hide. Like a striker who goes through a lean spell - A good one will continue to get into positions despite missing a few. A lesser one will hide.

[bully]

Yes, it's what he's supposed to do, and he continues to do it very well 99% of the time.

1.The fact he isn't bothered by it and continues to contribute to the team is just further testament to his strength of character and bravery, not a counter argument to it.

2.A lesser person would be fazed by it and hide. Like a striker who goes through a lean spell - A good one will continue to get into positions despite missing a few. A lesser one will hide.

1. Semantics perhaps but I don't see how bravery comes into it - LJ is fireproof and i'm not talking about nepotism before anyone starts. He has never been dropped by the manager so must be very sure of his place, and the fact that City forums and gobshites in the crowd won't change that.

2. Anyone who hides at professional level would surely be dropped until they regained confidence - as LJ doesn't look short of confidence, then it backs up (1) above.

[Guest Red Cell]

"Since our Wembley final transfers out and injuries see us undeniably having a weaker squad than 4 months ago."

I deny that. That's proved you wrong already, but just in case you need more...

From watching 3 of the first 4 league games this season i couldn't agree with you LESS. Without exception i can't think of one player that's appeared that doesn't look more comfortable and more accomplished at this level than he did 4 months ago. Every manager in the league is trying to strengthen his squad from the previous year - probably half of them manage it, our start so far suggests that GJ is one of them. We got a lot of points last year that could reasonably be argued were lucky points. This year we've got Johnson's '2pts-a-game for automatic promotion target' and deserved all of them if not more. We now have a bench with impact, and which ever way you shuffle our starting 11 we would still have impact players on the bench, i can't remember when that was last the case.

The other thing to think about is that success is achieved through a mix of the following (and no doubt more besides) talent (on and off the pitch), tactics (team and individual), hard work, enjoyment, facilities, belief and support. Surely therefore the strength of a squad should be measured by the same criteria. Johnson's mantra, which is central to his strategy is 'motivate players by getting players that can be motivated' this doesn't mean he discards the need for talent it simply means that occasionally he's prepared to compromise on talent in order to follow his overall strategy of assembling a highly motivated squad who are all working towards the cause with no one feeling they are more important than the next man or the cause itself. In Johnson's view this this gives him the strongest squad possible, i reckon i agree with him based on his results since arriving here. It strikes me that Johnson works his nuts off and manages the team, the squad, the club and the supporters (in terms of their expectations) pretty well.

Don't get me wrong, i liked having Nick Carle here we have lost some talent there but we've gained some too and that coupled to the fact that we have more than likely improved in all the other areas, in my opinion, gives us an undeniably stronger squad than 4 months ago

[dezgimed]

Where was Skuse for the playoff final, injured?

Would have been useful at RB, or Wilson for that matter.

Odd now thinking of it..