Thank You Steve

[sunningdalered]

Does anyone know why this Director of Football / Sport / Procurement etc etc model is so favoured over the old-school chairman & manager combo?

Most obvious case for it would be the success of clubs in Europe who deploy it versus those who don't - but is it as simple as that?

West Ham suggested that they felt 'vulnerable' if AC had too much control - what does that mean ffs? Sounds like a corporate risk management model where you try not to leave a company too exposed to key individuals, but in football surely the manager (or soccer coach!!) has to be in control of his key resources (players) or how can be he be held responsible for team performance. Its like asking a factory manager to be responsible for quality control but not letting him have any say in what materials the company buys - all he can do is the best with whats he's given.

Or is it simply that there's too much for a manager to do? If so, what's changed?

I hope that this new model doesn't become fashionable at CCC level - having people in place to support the manager (scouting, fitness, admin etc etc) yes, but someone removing the true accountability of the manager, no thank you.

[terjon]

I agree with the original post, what has it come to when directors are buying players and telling the manager to play them, Even Chelsea had that with shevchenko, thats why The Special One left, Now Curbs and now Keegan..

I think to be honest most fans would love a billionaire to take over and buy the cream of the crop, however football use to be about the underdog, romance of wembley, FA cup the uncertainty of who will win the league, promotion, relegation.

The prem to me has been destroyed, every person who follows this sport could tell you before a ball is kicked who the top 4 will be, even the next 4, you have a league that is so predictable I bet with in reason most people could pick first to last, that makes it a total farce in my book.

You only have to look at Man Utd reserves, Chelsea and Arsenal reserves, they would probably finish in the top 10 of the prem,

The other annoying part is if you are lucky to draw Man u Chelsea, Arsenal in the cup they stick the reses in and beat you anyway.

I think the FA should cap spending and wages and squad numbers to make the prem a more even playing field, it should also limit the number of players from abroad.

FA need to bring back the joy of watching football...........

[NiceRed]

I agree with the original post, what has it come to when directors are buying players and telling the manager to play them, Even Chelsea had that with shevchenko, thats why The Special One left, Now Curbs and now Keegan..

Didn't Scott Davidson do that when he bought Tony Thorpe or Soren Andersen when John Ward was on holiday? Or is that just a myth?

Anyway, didn't really want to get off topic, sorry.

Back to the original point, there is no need why we would have to completely change once in the Prem. There are several good examples of well-run, community based Premier League clubs still (Villa, Blackburn, Boro, Pompey, off the top of my head). Just as there are examples of poorly run "corporate" clubs in the Championship and below.

As to those who are happy for us not getting promoted, I see your point, but surely the reason the Championship is by far the most exciting league in the country (and beyond), is partly because of the prize on offer for the winners? Without the carrot of the Premier League on offer, surely it would lose a lot of its meaning?

[Red_Mat]

I don't really like foreign people with their stolen money being aloud to come into our Country, buy a football club and expect that utterly disgusting and obscene amounts of money will guarantee them success, because it wont ever happen.

That's it, because only ENGLISH people make their money legitimately! All foreigners are crooks and theives. I wouldn't trust them...

[MATT BCFC]

Thankfully, City don't attract super rich billionaires because 1) We ain't in the Premier League 2) City have never won anything of significance.

Nor have Newcastle!

[bully]

As to those who are happy for us not getting promoted, I see your point, but surely the reason the Championship is by far the most exciting league in the country (and beyond), is partly because of the prize on offer for the winners? Without the carrot of the Premier League on offer, surely it would lose a lot of its meaning?

Agreed mate - it's almost as though people are trying to put a positive on the fact that we ballsed up last season and are unlikely I believe to be in the shake up this year - ask any Hull or Stoke fan where they'd rather be right now, and I don't accept other posters saying it will financially ruin them.

If people would rather be in the CCC, then presumably they support the Man City proposal that there's no relegation from the Prem?

[cheshire_red]

i to was not too upset, I hate watching BCFC lose any match but I and my three travelling companions from the north west were not too gutted at all. And that wasn't being selfish knowing that had we gone up we wouldn't have got tickets for games local to us like Man U, Liverpool, Everton etc. (it's highly unlikely we'll get them for Wolves in a couple of weeks either). It was because the Prem holds little interest for any of us. We could go watch Prem football at several clubs all within 30-60 minutes drive. No it's because the Premier League is not football as we love it, it's football with mercenaries there for the dosh, not the love of the club etc. Yes we have plenty of imports but we also have some local lads brought up through the system and long may it continue.

[greenun]

Nor have Newcastle!

Newcastle haven't won a major trophy for 40 seasons, but they won a few pots before that: http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/Recor...1241748,00.html. Not to mention denying us the First Division championship title in 1906-07; dirty Northeners.

[Redbarn]

i would much rather stay in the championship for many more seasons

Than be in the Premier League for one year just for 'the experience' and come out financialy unstable !

I think you have been drinking and fighting too much Pete!

Silly post, especially as the hierarchy at Ashton Gate have stated their ambitions clearly enough.

If you would have us stuck in the Championship, then we might just as well be back in Div.1.

I think the missing word is Glory.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Agreed mate - it's almost as though people are trying to put a positive on the fact that we ballsed up last season and are unlikely I believe to be in the shake up this year - ask any Hull or Stoke fan where they'd rather be right now, and I don't accept other posters saying it will financially ruin them.

If people would rather be in the CCC, then presumably they support the Man City proposal that there's no relegation from the Prem?

Supporting City for me is about identifying with the team and following them through the highs and lows.

Yes, the players evolve and change but the change is gradual so there is continuation.

Hull, and particularly Stoke, have been signing Premier League journeymen left right and centre and already their teams are becoming barely recognisable from their heroes who got them promotion.

Do I hanker after ten new players in City shirts on obscene 20-30k per week wages who will quickly move on when the struggle to stay up is lost? Would they need or care about my support?

I'm really not bothered that we didn't go up - apart from the temporary agony of being there to witness yet another play off defeat. As far as I'm concerned the Championship is not only City's natural division but more open, interesting and exciting than the predictable Premier League.

Nothing about the Premier League appeals to me - if City could challenge to win the Championship every season with perhaps a place in Europe thrown in for the winners that would do me fine. I'd be quite happy if the Premier League broke away from the rest.

I was there against Portsmouth and then Arsenal last time we went up to the top league. The difference then was we could compete immediately in the top division with the same team who went up - as far as I remember City made NO signings whatsoever that close -season.

These days hardly any of our promotion winners would be featuring in the first team 6 months after we went up.

[Nogbad the Bad]

i would much rather stay in the championship for many more seasons

Than be in the Premier League for one year just for 'the experience' and come out financialy unstable !

That's a fair point Pete, and it's good to see a teenager fanatical about BCFC rather than obsessed with the Premier League so many others follow on the telly and advertise on their backs.

City first and foremost, the movement between divisions adds variation and interest but doesn't really matter.

[cider head]

The key is to get to the prem with hard working fotballers and not waste money on prima dona over paid

players who stay untill their agent needs a new pent house and don't buy big names for the sake of it.

man utd have a few stars but they always seem to have teams built with their kids or players that come in

who no one has heard of, hard workers, real madrid spent millions and won sweet fa becuse they had a team

full of stars who did not work hard as a unit and this goes for any league if you work hard as a team you will

get to the prem and stay there.

everyone needs something to aim for or it's pointless and our next aim is the prem even if it's not for

money but to shove it up these so called big clubs...

[Philip Belgrave]

Another interesting and thought-provoking thread:- valuable stuff for geographical outsiders like me.

I take it the consensus is that , assuming the CITY does make it to the Premier League this time, then ,inevitably, the following season would see CITY drawn into an downward vortex of humiliating defeat and disgrace ?

But this thread actually began in praise of our leadership- so is it not a little illogical to assume that their abilities would suddenly desert them if/when we are faced with the Big Time ?

[Guest MaloneFM]

Silly post, especially as the hierarchy at Ashton Gate have stated their ambitions clearly enough.

If you would have us stuck in the Championship, then we might just as well be back in Div.1.

I think the missing word is Glory.

The hierarchy of every club say they will do better, that they will bounce back up from relegation, that the new ground will be finished on such and such a date. The reform group promised European football within 5 years. So don't put too much faith in what the leaders of any club say.

As for stuck in the Championship we have been trying to get stuck there for ages. The gap between where we are and where we were is more season tickets sold, higher gates and better football.

The Premier League trumpets itself as the greatest league in the world. Does it produce and English world cup winning team or an all English European cup winning side? Neither. Does it produce massive amounts of debt, the so called £60 million payout for winning the playoffs which according to the Football Association is £20,000 on the day and the rest made up with tv money and parachute payments? Does it also make use of players and managers that have no history or connection with the club, kiss the badge then count the money?

Its a very dangerous place to be presently. Full of sharks and unless you are a dumping ground for foreign money-how many of the big three (being the only ones than can actually win it-maybe this season its down to two now) are completely English backed, will ruin the fan base and the history.

I think the missing word is greed.

[bully]

The hierarchy of every club say they will do better, that they will bounce back up from relegation, that the new ground will be finished on such and such a date. The reform group promised European football within 5 years. So don't put too much faith in what the leaders of any club say.

As for stuck in the Championship we have been trying to get stuck there for ages. The gap between where we are and where we were is more season tickets sold, higher gates and better football.

The Premier League trumpets itself as the greatest league in the world. Does it produce and English world cup winning team or an all English European cup winning side? Neither. Does it produce massive amounts of debt, the so called £60 million payout for winning the playoffs which according to the Football Association is £20,000 on the day and the rest made up with tv money and parachute payments? Does it also make use of players and managers that have no history or connection with the club, kiss the badge then count the money?

Its a very dangerous place to be presently. Full of sharks and unless you are a dumping ground for foreign money-how many of the big three (being the only ones than can actually win it-maybe this season its down to two now) are completely English backed, will ruin the fan base and the history.

I think the missing word is greed.

You're possibly right but that's where most people associated with the club wants to be asap!

[Guest MaloneFM]

You're possibly right but that's where most people associated with the club wants to be asap!

Might do a poll on that Bullers. Good idea!

[bully]

Might do a poll on that Bullers. Good idea!

Another winner from the mighty M I think ! - how long before Lee Johnson gets into the thread do you reckon though?

[Guest MaloneFM]

Another winner from the mighty M I think ! - how long before Lee Johnson gets into the thread do you reckon though?

Sort of 'well uncle I voted yes for the Premier League providing we don't take that lazy little bast...'

Not long Bullers, not long.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Another interesting and thought-provoking thread:- valuable stuff for geographical outsiders like me.

I take it the consensus is that , assuming the CITY does make it to the Premier League this time, then ,inevitably, the following season would see CITY drawn into an downward vortex of humiliating defeat and disgrace ?

But this thread actually began in praise of our leadership- so is it not a little illogical to assume that their abilities would suddenly desert them if/when we are faced with the Big Time ?

If City got promoted we'd all accept it and trust that SL would never allow City's future to be put in doubt again. Those of us who remember 1982 have seen first hand the humiliating spiral of defeat you talk of and next time it may take more than 20 years+ to reach the recovery position we have eventually found under GJ.

The point is do we actually want promotion to the Premier League and all it stands for or are we happy in the competitive, entertaining Championship. If we are happy where we are does that mean we lack ambition or are all our aspirations as City fans in fact fulfilled in the division City we were in when I first supported the club and which may be our natural home where we can truly compete on a fairly level playing field with the majority of our opponents?

Do we support our club or first and foremost or our Saturdays not complete without being able to watch the so-called superstars of the Premier League probably humiliating our team of triers ( or more likely a replacement team of overpaid but uncompetitive journeymen) on a regular basis. We can't compete in the top league now like we did in the late '70's - too much has changed and the quality of the Championship now is probably closer to the old First Division than the old Division 2. The Premier League is for glory hunters, armchair Sky watchers, and those who find excitement in being associated with multi million pound transfers and wages. Has todays Championship in fact not replaced the Premier League as the top tier of real English football as we have all grown up watching it?

No promotion equals no ambition? What would be the point? We can aspire to win the Championship and the glory and trophy that would accompany it. If we went up what would be our ambition? Always just to survive and eventually then to get into Europe. From regular participation in European competition the natural progression would be wanting City to be part of some breakaway European League because that is where a continuation of ambition and desire would inevitably progress to.

There would be no remnant of the matchday experience of today for those few of us who could still afford to actually attend matches so we would mostly become armchair fans, if indeed the obscene amounts of money being paid to 'our' team hadn't brought us to our senses and enabled us to shake off our addiction.

I'm happy where we are and more than content to never be assosiated with the Premier League. If we did get there and became an active participant in the circus that we all see on the media and the ever increasing greed associated with it, then the realisation would quickly dawn that our desire to progress now saw our club as an unrecognisable money making media controlled monstrosity.The Bristol City F.C. we all grew up with would be gone forever and for many of us the reason to support it lost in the unfathomable stampede to constantly push the club on to a position where in fact many of us would lose interest in it or be marginalised by our inability to raise the money that actively supporting the club would then entail.

Be careful what you wish for.

[Guest MaloneFM]

Or vote for...

http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=105393&hl=

[Philip Belgrave]

If City got promoted we'd all accept it and trust that SL would never allow City's future to be put in doubt again. Those of us who remember 1982 have seen first hand the humiliating spiral of defeat you talk of and next time it may take more than 20 years+ to reach the recovery position we have eventually found under GJ.

The point is do we actually want promotion to the Premier League and all it stands for or are we happy in the competitive, entertaining Championship. If we are happy where we are does that mean we lack ambition or are all our aspirations as City fans in fact fulfilled in the division City we were in when I first supported the club and which may be our natural home where we can truly compete on a fairly level playing field with the majority of our opponents?

Do we support our club or first and foremost or our Saturdays not complete without being able to watch the so-called superstars of the Premier League probably humiliating our team of triers ( or more likely a replacement team of overpaid but uncompetitive journeymen) on a regular basis. We can't compete in the top league now like we did in the late '70's - too much has changed and the quality of the Championship now is probably closer to the old First Division than the old Division 2. The Premier League is for glory hunters, armchair Sky watchers, and those who find excitement in being associated with multi million pound transfers and wages. Has todays Championship in fact not replaced the Premier League as the top tier of real English football as we have all grown up watching it?

No promotion equals no ambition? What would be the point? We can aspire to win the Championship and the glory and trophy that would accompany it. If we went up what would be our ambition? Always just to survive and eventually then to get into Europe. From regular participation in European competition the natural progression would be wanting City to be part of some breakaway European League because that is where a continuation of ambition and desire would inevitably progress to.

There would be no remnant of the matchday experience of today for those few of us who could still afford to actually attend matches so we would mostly become armchair fans, if indeed the obscene amounts of money being paid to 'our' team hadn't brought us to our senses and enabled us to shake off our addiction.

I'm happy where we are and more than content to never be assosiated with the Premier League. If we did get there and became an active participant in the circus that we all see on the media and the ever increasing greed associated with it, then the realisation would quickly dawn that our desire to progress now saw our club as an unrecognisable money making media controlled monstrosity.The Bristol City F.C. we all grew up with would be gone forever and for many of us the reason to support it lost in the unfathomable stampede to constantly push the club on to a position where in fact many of us would lose interest in it or be marginalised by our inability to raise the money that actively supporting the club would then entail.

Be careful what you wish for.

A thoughtful response indeed: as you say "Be careful what you wish for".

But then we have a problem, don't we ? Let CITY be successful- but not too successful, because that might be the road to ruin.

Do we strive to be the best that we can be- or settle for comfort and security ?

[Guest MaloneFM]

Do we strive to be the best that we can be- or settle for comfort and security ?

Presently (b)

Then (a)

[Nogbad the Bad]

A thoughtful response indeed: as you say "Be careful what you wish for".

But then we have a problem, don't we ? Let CITY be successful- but not too successful, because that might be the road to ruin.

Do we strive to be the best that we can be- or settle for comfort and security ?

As things stand each season there will be at least 3 teams better placed to reach the Premier League than City. Not so sure that the Championship is 'comfort and security' for BCFC.

My hope is the Premier League will finally do what it has so often threatened and break away.

Then our ambition will be clear - to win the Championship and thereby win the LEAGUE.

Always a chance we could achieve that too, what better ambition could BCFC and it's fans have than that?

[Philip Belgrave]

Presently (b)

Then (a)

O.K., then what you are advocating is a period of consolidation in the Championship (b) and then promotion aspirations.(a) ?

Please don't get me wrong here. I can quite see that the last thing we want is a re-run of the eighties. but it seems peculiar that the prospect of CITY winning every game for the rest of the season is to be deplored ,because our inevitable reward would be to finish up-however briefly- with the cashed-up barbarians in the Premier League.

[bully]

My hope is the Premier League will finally do what it has so often threatened and break away.

Then our ambition will be clear - to win the Championship and thereby win the LEAGUE.

Always a chance we could achieve that too, what better ambition could BCFC and it's fans have than that?

If the Prem broke away it might be food and drink to Platini I think because he hates the debt hanging around the biggest English clubs which he thinks gives them an unfair advantage - would he use the breakaway as a means of kicking them out of the UEFA Champions league?

Therefore, would a breakaway actually rebound on the Prem? - I am not aware of another country where there would be such a league, so would the FA ban them from the FA Cup (plus Euro spot) and the league cup?

Be pretty nice then if we were actually going for European places whilst the 20 elite teams tout their trade around Malaysia and Melbourne in front of ever diminishing crowds..

[Philip Belgrave]

If the Prem broke away it might be food and drink to Platini I think because he hates the debt hanging around the biggest English clubs which he thinks gives them an unfair advantage - would he use the breakaway as a means of kicking them out of the UEFA Champions league?

Therefore, would a breakaway actually rebound on the Prem? - I am not aware of another country where there would be such a league, so would the FA ban them from the FA Cup (plus Euro spot) and the league cup?

Be pretty nice then if we were actually going for European places whilst the 20 elite teams tout their trade around Malaysia and Melbourne in front of ever diminishing crowds..

Well- yes. I would dearly like to see 20 Elite teams visit Melbourne- as long as one of those teams was BRISTOL CITY!

[Jungle Jim]

Nor have Newcastle!

Or Man City!

[Guest MaloneFM]

O.K., then what you are advocating is a period of consolidation in the Championship (b) and then promotion aspirations.(a) ?

Well presently the Premier League is on turmoil. And bearing in mind promotion is out of my hands and all that so bearing that in mind I'd happily accept promotion when the Premier League cleans up it's act regarding money laundering for overseas billionaires. Something approaching a wage cap. A limit on foreign players at each starting 11 and if I understand this correctly a draft system similar to the one in the US. The lowest performing side getting the first pick of all transfer listed players once the window opens.

It's no longer a competition up there and the quicker Manchester United Chelsea Arsenal and Liverpool bugger off to the Euopean league the better.

Getting out of cloud cuckoo land for a moment. 5 years consolidation, get the dust settled on this stadium malarky, a few decent cup runs and maybe even a league cup win, then give it a stab.

[garlicbread]

Getting out of cloud cuckoo land for a moment. 5 years consolidation, get the dust settled on this stadium malarky, a few decent cup runs and maybe even a league cup win, then give it a stab.

I see your point, but realy I feel that Johnson will probably be our golden ticket to the prem...and he will be gone by then.

If we are to go up within the next 10 years or so, we realistically have a small window of opportunity of a couple of years.

I could see Gary giving it a couple of seasons and then move on. If we don't go up in 2 seasons I wouldnt ne suprised to see him take another gig elsewhere.

Whilst I would prefer the conslidation way, I fear that we don't have the time.

[bully]

I see your point, but realy I feel that Johnson will probably be our golden ticket to the prem...and he will be gone by then.

If we are to go up within the next 10 years or so, we realistically have a small window of opportunity of a couple of years.

I could see Gary giving it a couple of seasons and then move on. If we don't go up in 2 seasons I wouldnt ne suprised to see him take another gig elsewhere.

Whilst I would prefer the conslidation way, I fear that we don't have the time.

Hold up! - I think GJ has done a fine job, but he ain't a one man band, so if he did move on, then he knows, we might even get someone better then, because we'd be a very attractive option hopefully - new stadium, growing support, and the best chairman outside the Prem....