That Respect Campaign Has

[Never to the dark side]

seven red cards on weekend august 23/24

fourteen red cards on weekend 13/14 september

[Robbored]

Red and yellow cards stats don't necessarilly reflect that the 'respect' campaign has failed. We don't know how many of those cards were for dissent. Players still commit fouls that earn the cards. John Terry got a straight red for a professional foul at Man City for example.

We'll only know how succesfull or otherwise the campaign has been when the stats for dissent are compared with previous seasons.

[bully]

Red and yellow cards stats don't necessarilly reflect that the 'respect' campaign has failed. We don't know how many of those cards were for dissent. Players still commit fouls that earn the cards. John Terry got a straight red for a professional foul at Man City for example.

We'll only know how succesfull or otherwise the campaign has been when the stats for dissent are compared with previous seasons.

I think respect has to be earned - Halsey got it wrong in the Chelsea match and then being a typical ref who refuses to acknowledge a mistake, claims that its a sending off for dangerous play - who thinks the Terry foul was that?

Also, the Moyes incident - who would blame any coach for going apeshit when a penalty decision turns like that?

A shame, because player behaviour filters down to grassroots/juniors and the refs there deserve respect and protection, but their senior colleagues aren't helping .

[Never to the dark side]

These stats are for the three divisions of the championship

excluding the Premier League

sproule came on in the 84th minute and got booked in the 87th minute

He got got booked for mouthing at the linesman and the ref could only

see the rear of sproule

The officials are totally wired up and if the truth be know

I bet the ref said to the linesman "do you want me book him"

Linesman then press's button on his flag handle to say "yes"

ref books sproule

I can sympathy if you get booked for a mis-timed tackle

but for mouthing at an official I cannot have any sympathy

[edson]

I think respect has to be earned - Halsey got it wrong in the Chelsea match and then being a typical ref who refuses to acknowledge a mistake, claims that its a sending off for dangerous play - who thinks the Terry foul was that?

Also, the Moyes incident - who would blame any coach for going apeshit when a penalty decision turns like that?

A shame, because player behaviour filters down to grassroots/juniors and the refs there deserve respect and protection, but their senior colleagues aren't helping .

The Terry foul was a clear red. It was a cynical rugby tackle to prevent a run through on goal, and is precisely the sort of 'professional' foul that should result in a dismissal. The only person who made a mistake was John Terry, who cocked up his challenge and then deliberately hauled down the striker.

I blame Moyes entirely. No amount of ranting and raving was going to change the decision, so why do it? The referee consulted with his assistant and gave a decision based on that.

I manage a junior team and referee at that level too. I do not allow a player to so much as appeal for a throw in, as the officials give what they believe to be correct and don't need some gobby so and so screaming for a decision in their favour.

Players make mistakes all the time, because they're human. Yet they expect a referee to get every single decision correct in a split second. They are in an impossible position and only zero tolerance of the sort of behaviour we've seen from Chris Coleman and David Moyes will eventually get the penny to drop.

It doesn't help that morons like Mark Lawrenson pontificate over every decision with the benefit of slow motion and 16 camera angles. Anyone can make the right call in that situation, though even then the pundits sometimes struggle. Yet a ref is meant to be 100% correct 100% of the time.

[bully]

The Terry foul was a clear red. It was a cynical rugby tackle to prevent a run through on goal, and is precisely the sort of 'professional' foul that should result in a dismissal. The only person who made a mistake was John Terry, who cocked up his challenge and then deliberately hauled down the striker.

I blame Moyes entirely. No amount of ranting and raving was going to change the decision, so why do it? The referee consulted with his assistant and gave a decision based on that.

I manage a junior team and referee at that level too. I do not allow a player to so much as appeal for a throw in, as the officials give what they believe to be correct and don't need some gobby so and so screaming for a decision in their favour.

Players make mistakes all the time, because they're human. Yet they expect a referee to get every single decision correct in a split second. They are in an impossible position and only zero tolerance of the sort of behaviour we've seen from Chris Coleman and David Moyes will eventually get the penny to drop.

It doesn't help that morons like Mark Lawrenson pontificate over every decision with the benefit of slow motion and 16 camera angles. Anyone can make the right call in that situation, though even then the pundits sometimes struggle. Yet a ref is meant to be 100% correct 100% of the time.

It's good that you are bringing up the kids to play that way, because I think respect is most needed at grassroots where it's a lot more dangerous and intimidating for officials. What doesn't help though is the arrogance of senior refs who rarely if ever appear to acknowledge they are wrong .

Your composure is admirable, but are you telling me that if City gets a stonewall penalty given then not, you wouldn't rant?

The slow mo helps praise refs and linesmen also when they get a tight decision right, and during televised games, the 'experts' pick up any number of times when an offside decision or foul is patently wrong, but then put it behind them.

Lastly, the Terry challenge wasn't a rugby tackle and it definitely wasn't serious foul play - Halsey seems to acknowledge that there was sufficient cover so Jo wasn't clear through.

[Roe]

The Terry foul was a clear red. It was a cynical rugby tackle to prevent a run through on goal, and is precisely the sort of 'professional' foul that should result in a dismissal. The only person who made a mistake was John Terry, who cocked up his challenge and then deliberately hauled down the striker.

I blame Moyes entirely. No amount of ranting and raving was going to change the decision, so why do it? The referee consulted with his assistant and gave a decision based on that.

I manage a junior team and referee at that level too. I do not allow a player to so much as appeal for a throw in, as the officials give what they believe to be correct and don't need some gobby so and so screaming for a decision in their favour.

Players make mistakes all the time, because they're human. Yet they expect a referee to get every single decision correct in a split second. They are in an impossible position and only zero tolerance of the sort of behaviour we've seen from Chris Coleman and David Moyes will eventually get the penny to drop.

It doesn't help that morons like Mark Lawrenson pontificate over every decision with the benefit of slow motion and 16 camera angles. Anyone can make the right call in that situation, though even then the pundits sometimes struggle. Yet a ref is meant to be 100% correct 100% of the time.

Spot on Edson! I agree 100% and I don't think the respect campaign isn't working especially when you hear so called experts like Andy Gray say that Mark Halsey doesn't deserve any respect because he may have got a decision wrong? It's ridiculous. I agree as well that Terry deserved to be sent off. You can't just drag someone down who's through on goal, basically cheating then complain because the referee sends you off.

I think Alan Curbishley summed it up well on Goals on Sunday. He basically said that clubs need to stop moaning at refs and appealing for this and that and just get on with it. If the referee makes a decision, then that's the decision. It's good to see some managers are showing the respect they need to but it's also frustrating when you get idiots like Coleman ranting and raving even when he was wrong!

[Robbored]

Spot on Edson! I agree 100% and I don't think the respect campaign isn't working especially when you hear so called experts like Andy Gray say that Mark Halsey doesn't deserve any respect because he may have got a decision wrong? It's ridiculous. I agree as well that Terry deserved to be sent off. You can't just drag someone down who's through on goal, basically cheating then complain because the referee sends you off.

I agree that pundits often go over OTT in their critism of referee's but in the case of John Terry there was an arguement that Terry wasn't the last man.Carvalho was covering and would have got there. Halsey got it wrong and you have to wonder whether the fact it was JT and England Captain that persuaded Halsey to show a red.No better way to get noticed.

Robbie Keane was brought down in a similar fashion by Vidic but all Vidic got was a yellow as yet again he wasn't the last man.Ferdinand was coming over to intercept should Keane have got through. The ref was right not to send him off.

Its the inconsistancy between referee's that pisses off many pundits and fans alike.

[BCFC Matt]

The Terry foul was a clear red. It was a cynical rugby tackle to prevent a run through on goal, and is precisely the sort of 'professional' foul that should result in a dismissal. The only person who made a mistake was John Terry, who cocked up his challenge and then deliberately hauled down the striker.

Exactly! At last, common sense prevails!

[edson]

I agree that pundits often go over OTT in their critism of referee's but in the case of John Terry there was an arguement that Terry wasn't the last man.Carvalho was covering and would have got there. Halsey got it wrong and you have to wonder whether the fact it was JT and England Captain that persuaded Halsey to show a red.No better way to get noticed.

Robbie Keane was brought down in a similar fashion by Vidic but all Vidic got was a yellow as yet again he wasn't the last man.Ferdinand was coming over to intercept should Keane have got through. The ref was right not to send him off.

Its the inconsistancy between referee's that pisses off many pundits and fans alike.

Ah, the old inconsistency argument. I wondered when that would raise it's head.

Of course there's inconsistency. It's a game of football being played at high speed in front of a big crowd. In that situation, one man has to make a split second decision about what he's seen. Yet people expect absolute perfection and consistency across every single game of football being played. It just isn't feasible.

Once again, Halsey did not get it wrong. It was a cynical rugby tackle to prevent a run on goal. It was a deliberate attempt to prevent a goalscoring opportunity and was rightly punished. Why would a referee want to get noticed for a controversial decision, when you've just claimed that inconsistency is something that many people hate?

The easy thing would have been to give the England captain a yellow. Halsey rightly decided to give a red for precisely the sort of challenge that the rule was brought in to eradicate.

I advise anyone to try refereeing, even at mini soccer level, and see just how you get on. Ask the spectators afterwards just how consistent you've been. You'll be surprised at the repsonses, I'm sure.

[Redhyde]

I think the problem is not that he was sent off, but the rubbish reason of serious foul play. Under that definition it wasn't. If he'd been sent off for a professional foul then it'd be perfectly understandable. The ref has come out with a totally wrong reason for the sending off. Should a referee who doesn't understand the definitions of the game get respect?

When i see Wayne Rooney get sent off for disrespecting the referee or if i see a crowd of players around the referee all booked then we might see some impact. Until then it's bit of a nonsense. And the cringeworthy shaking hands line must stop.

[Robbored]

Of course there's inconsistency. It's a game of football being played at high speed in front of a big crowd. In that situation, one man has to make a split second decision about what he's seen. Yet people expect absolute perfection and consistency across every single game of football being played. It just isn't feasible.

Once again, Halsey did not get it wrong. It was a cynical rugby tackle to prevent a run on goal. It was a deliberate attempt to prevent a goalscoring opportunity and was rightly punished. Why would a referee want to get noticed for a controversial decision, when you've just claimed that inconsistency is something that many people hate?

The easy thing would have been to give the England captain a yellow. Halsey rightly decided to give a red for precisely the sort of challenge that the rule was brought in to eradicate.

I advise anyone to try refereeing, even at mini soccer level, and see just how you get on. Ask the spectators afterwards just how consistent you've been. You'll be surprised at the repsonses, I'm sure.

Those two incidents were almost identical and yet one player was sent off and the other given a yellow. Inconsistancy at some level is obviously to be expected but when it comes to the 'last man' rule - how hard is that? .

I'm not saying that Terry didn't deserve to be sent off - so did Vidic but niether was the last man and by the letter of the law both should have stayed on the pitch.Its clear cut. Halsey did get it wrong!

As for reffing junior games - I did it for over 10 years and know how tough it can be.I like to think that I had a decent reputation amongst the various clubs but I doubt you have if you go around sending off players when they clearly aren't the last man.......

[Roe]

Those two incidents were almost identical and yet one player was sent off and the other given a yellow. Inconsistancy at some level is obviously to be expected but when it comes to the 'last man' rule - how hard is that? .

I'm not saying that Terry didn't deserve to be sent off - so did Vidic but niether was the last man and by the letter of the law both should have stayed on the pitch.Its clear cut. Halsey did get it wrong!

Except that it isn't the rule of 'last man'. The rule is if you deny a clear goal scoring opportunity then it should be a red card. You can't tell me that taking a man down when he's through on goal, whether there are other defenders around or not, isn't denying a goal scoring opportunity?

[Nibor]

Players and managers should only be allowed to criticise referees mistakes when they have made less mistakes over the 90 minutes.

[Alex_BCFC]

That John terry tackle was one of the rugby variety and I have no sympathy for him.

[Belfastcityfan]

I think the problem is not that he was sent off, but the rubbish reason of serious foul play. Under that definition it wasn't. If he'd been sent off for a professional foul then it'd be perfectly understandable. The ref has come out with a totally wrong reason for the sending off. Should a referee who doesn't understand the definitions of the game get respect?

When i see Wayne Rooney get sent off for disrespecting the referee or if i see a crowd of players around the referee all booked then we might see some impact. Until then it's bit of a nonsense. And the cringeworthy shaking hands line must stop.

Spot on Redhyde! Serious foul play!! Look at Dawson's tackle last night in the Villa V Spurs game, totally took the man out of the game and got away with a booking. It was worse than Terrys "rugby" tackle, but he get's a red. If the reason he was sent off was serious foul play, and not a professional foul as he was the last defender, then it should be reversed IMO

Wayne Rooney is one player who get's away with murder in the Premier League, the filth that comes from that guy's mouth towards the officials is a disgrace. It is players like him who make the job harder for youngsters at grass roots level to show repect to refs, linesman and too each other. Managers like fergie who defend players actions do not help either.

Then you have Guthrie's challenge at the weekend, Newcastle's bewildering support for Barton, things will never change until players like this are taken out of the game. Barton should have been sacked and banned from playing in the Premier League for his thuggish behaviour to show kids what happens if you carry out thuggish acts.....not reward the coward and continue to pay him £60-70k a week, what sort of message does that send out. Not only to the children playing football, but kids living in todays troubled society!!!

There is a lot of things wrong in football today

[Seend Red]

I agree that pundits often go over OTT in their critism of referee's but in the case of John Terry there was an arguement that Terry wasn't the last man.Carvalho was covering and would have got there. Halsey got it wrong and you have to wonder whether the fact it was JT and England Captain that persuaded Halsey to show a red.No better way to get noticed.

Last man isn't an issue as the referee has already said that wasn't why he went,if you rugby tackle a player bearing down on goal then you have to expect to see red .

I really don't get what all the fuss about. Had Terry actually tried to make a fair tackle and got it wrong then fair enough maybe there would be a case to answer .

[edson]

Those two incidents were almost identical and yet one player was sent off and the other given a yellow. Inconsistancy at some level is obviously to be expected but when it comes to the 'last man' rule - how hard is that? .

I'm not saying that Terry didn't deserve to be sent off - so did Vidic but niether was the last man and by the letter of the law both should have stayed on the pitch.Its clear cut. Halsey did get it wrong!

As for reffing junior games - I did it for over 10 years and know how tough it can be.I like to think that I had a decent reputation amongst the various clubs but I doubt you have if you go around sending off players when they clearly aren't the last man.......

If Terry didn't feel he was denying a goalscoring opportunity, then why did he drag him down?

He knew fine well what he was doing, and is now bleating like a lamb because he was punished for a cynical challenge.

In my view, Vidic also deserved to go, but the referee has to assess it as he sees it and makes what he believes to be the correct decision based on that. Consistency doesn't come into it, human error does.

If you're not prepared to forgive or allow for human error, then it's clear where the actual problem lies.

Show me where the laws of the game say a defender needs to be the last man to deny an obvious goalscoring opportunity.

[WTFiGO!?!]

If the referee makes a decision, then that's the decision.

....can now be considered an old wives tale.

Twice this very last weekend the authoreties have totally undermined themselves, Moyes's fuming was fully understandable, imo.

On a side note, I can't for the life of me understand the mentality of anybody wishing to become a referee. It's an act of extreme selflessness or the result of a meglamaniatical disposition from inferiorety complexee's.

I think they're always going to be on for a hiding to nothing.

[Roe]

....can now be considered an old wives tale.

Twice this very last weekend the authoreties have totally undermined themselves, Moyes's fuming was fully understandable, imo.

On a side note, I can't for the life of me understand the mentality of anybody wishing to become a referee. It's an act of extreme selflessness or the result of a meglamaniatical disposition from inferiorety complexee's.

I think they're always going to be on for a hiding to nothing.

Moyes' fumiting was understandable? I don't think it was to be honest even though the decision was wrong. Everton's winning goal also could've probably been disallowed seeing as the bloke controlled it with his arm! As they say, "sometimes they go for you, sometimes they don't.. get over it!" I really don't understand the mentality behind complaining because your side didn't get a penalty anyway. It's a strange one with the penalty as well because the ball was on the edge of the area to the side of the goal and was far from a goal scoring chance, yet Everton feel they should've had a goal for this?!?

[WTFiGO!?!]

Moyes' fumiting was understandable? I don't think it was to be honest even though the decision was wrong. Everton's winning goal also could've probably been disallowed seeing as the bloke controlled it with his arm! As they say, "sometimes they go for you, sometimes they don't.. get over it!" I really don't understand the mentality behind complaining because your side didn't get a penalty anyway. It's a strange one with the penalty as well because the ball was on the edge of the area to the side of the goal and was far from a goal scoring chance, yet Everton feel they should've had a goal for this?!?

Don't blame Everton, blame the rule makers.

It wasn't the incorrect decision that I was justifting Mr Moyes's outburst about it was due to the ref changing his mind thus breaking the one apparent golden rule kids are taught about referees. It was a basic t!ts up job in itself, once you point to the spot it's a penalty.

[simon uk]

Notice how GJ very rarely mentions the referee, he knows things iron themselves out over a season, and I am sure that over the course of the season, we probably get more things go our way based on GJs attitude, compared to Warnock for example. I remember Bryan Robson when he was to middlesborough say something like, "we were awful today we passed the ball terribly, but it was the referees fault we lost". Seeing he was a great player, he really is a dire manager.

Re the Terry sending off, I cant be sure, but I think there was a Man City player near Carvalho when Terry made that tackle, so even if Carvalho was able to cover, he would have been 2 against 1. He can moan about it, but that was pretty cynical.

Guthries tackle was plain rediculous, and hopefully is banned for much longer.

[Laner]

Moyes' fumiting was understandable? I don't think it was to be honest even though the decision was wrong. Everton's winning goal also could've probably been disallowed seeing as the bloke controlled it with his arm! As they say, "sometimes they go for you, sometimes they don't.. get over it!" I really don't understand the mentality behind complaining because your side didn't get a penalty anyway. It's a strange one with the penalty as well because the ball was on the edge of the area to the side of the goal and was far from a goal scoring chance, yet Everton feel they should've had a goal for this?!?

Everton wanted a penalty as the foul was inside the box... standard rules of football. Penalties are not given on a 'were they likely to score basis?!'

[Roe]

Don't blame Everton, blame the rule makers.

It wasn't the incorrect decision that I was justifting Mr Moyes's outburst about it was due to the ref changing his mind thus breaking the one apparent golden rule kids are taught about referees. It was a basic t!ts up job in itself, once you point to the spot it's a penalty.

I'm not blaming Everton for the rule just for the complaining about the decision. It wasn't really a t!ts up job from the ref though because he talked to the linesman who must've advised (bizarely I'll admit) that it was outside the area. The referee then made a decision to give a free kick instead so Everton need to just get on with it. I think Paul Sturrock was really good for this a few weeks back when they were on the tele. They had a perfectly good goal disallowed and Sturrock said "If the referee thinks it shouldn't have been a goal then that's fine with me" and then went to talk about his own team and something that he could actually effect. I swear that referees would get more decisions right if they were left alone and left to actually referee the match.

[Roe]

Everton wanted a penalty as the foul was inside the box... standard rules of football. Penalties are not given on a 'were they likely to score basis?!'

I know the rules but personally I just don't understand why you'd complain about something like that.

[citynut54]

I think respect has to be earned - Halsey got it wrong in the Chelsea match and then being a typical ref who refuses to acknowledge a mistake, claims that its a sending off for dangerous play - who thinks the Terry foul was that?

Also, the Moyes incident - who would blame any coach for going apeshit when a penalty decision turns like that?

A shame, because player behaviour filters down to grassroots/juniors and the refs there deserve respect and protection, but their senior colleagues aren't helping .

Agree totally!! Respect is a 2 way street, and has to be earned. If you or i did our jobs as (consistantly) badly as many of them then the 3 letters that spring to mind are JSA!!

They give the impression that they are above critisism, which i think is what angers fans,players and managers alike more than anything.

As for being accountable, well the asessors are a joke and rarely bring them to book after a bad game, except if its a Prem ref who has a 'mare' then we get lumbered for a couple of games!!

[edson]

Agree totally!! Respect is a 2 way street, and has to be earned. If you or i did our jobs as (consistantly) badly as many of them then the 3 letters that spring to mind are JSA!!

They give the impression that they are above critisism, which i think is what angers fans,players and managers alike more than anything.

As for being accountable, well the asessors are a joke and rarely bring them to book after a bad game, except if its a Prem ref who has a 'mare' then we get lumbered for a couple of games!!

How does that work?

The referee should be respected because he's a figure of authority on the pitch.

What does he have to do to 'earn' your respect? What happens in the initial period before either of you have earnt each other's respect? Just a free for all?

The junior team I manage don't wait for the referee to earn their respect. They go out there and respect him from the start or they come off the pitch and get reminded of what's expected of them.

They are told before each game not to answer back, not to appeal for things and not to swear. Are you suggesting I should say, "We've never seen this referee before, so don't respect him until he earns it."?

[bully]

How does that work?

The referee should be respected because he's a figure of authority on the pitch.

What does he have to do to 'earn' your respect? What happens in the initial period before either of you have earnt each other's respect? Just a free for all?

The junior team I manage don't wait for the referee to earn their respect. They go out there and respect him from the start or they come off the pitch and get reminded of what's expected of them.

They are told before each game not to answer back, not to appeal for things and not to swear. Are you suggesting I should say, "We've never seen this referee before, so don't respect him until he earns it."?

I think you are managing your junior side in the right way - unfortunately, as you well know, when people get older, and develop minds of their own, they don't follow instructions to the letter, and being in the most part competitive people playing sport, will appeal decisions - it's how they do that which is important of course.

I cannot believe that any player goes out on the pitch aiming to disrespect a ref. However, once they start messing up (ref that is), and more particularly doing it in an arrogant manner, whatever respect was in place, goes out the window.

I happen to believe that the vast majority of players do not disrespect all refs all the time, nor even some refs all the time, but take each game as it comes - players are generally therefore prepared to give the ref the benefit of the doubt to start with - but to maintain that respect, the ref has to keep his end of the bargain and play a good game - thereby EARNING respect.

[edson]

Until referees are given the authority and room to operate a zero tolerance approach, as is seen in cricket and rugby, it will always be the case.

Cricket has the right approach, fining and suspending players for any sign of dissent, and I'd like to see that implemented in football.

I note the John Terry red card has been overturned. To me, that shows a lack of support by the FA for the referee and further adds to player strength in whinging.

I sometimes wonder what it is the FA actually does support, other than the big cash cow clubs. Though I suspect the clue may be in their name.

[Roe]

Until referees are given the authority and room to operate a zero tolerance approach, as is seen in cricket and rugby, it will always be the case.

Cricket has the right approach, fining and suspending players for any sign of dissent, and I'd like to see that implemented in football.

I note the John Terry red card has been overturned. To me, that shows a lack of support by the FA for the referee and further adds to player strength in whinging.

I sometimes wonder what it is the FA actually does support, other than the big cash cow clubs. Though I suspect the clue may be in their name.

I can't believe that he got that overturned. Also I believe it's the actual referee that accepts the appeal and changes the decision not the FA. So Mark Halsey is obviously admitting here that he got something wrong, I thought people said that Referee's 'won't admit when they're wrong'?