Give Post A Chance

[bully]

Just out of interest...

If the article today was in isolation, you could argue there's some sort of agenda.

I'm not bothered about bias whether real or imagined - what concerns me about the EP is the lazy journalism.

The Scott Sinclair article today was a gem - been discussed for weeks on here.

GJ may consider loans on Tuesday - he said that Saturday I think.

Come on Steve, get your people working a bit harder - this is a trend across the whole paper incidentally.

[myol'man]

Do some research and you would probably find away followings are down everywhere.

Lazy journalisam to use fans forums and pub rumours for stories.

Why didn't Stockhausen attend the meeting?

[RedRaw]

Can somebody please explain how the naming of thr r*vers mascot, Black Arab, (good luck with the PC brigade) makes the headline story on the news section of www.thisisroverssorrybristol.co.uk

[edson]

Another example of perceived bias might be, if I click 'Bristol City' on the Evening Post website, I get stories from both clubs (including one about Rovers fans feeling the pinch and choosing their away games more carefully, with no mention of whether entertainment is an issue, despite the fact they've only won three games away from home since February):

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/bristolcitynew/news

If I click 'Bristol Rovers', the Bristol City stories are filtered out:

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/roversnew/news

[chinapig]

Sorry, but in what way have you interpreted the article as sophistry? That's a pretty strong accusation to make.

The fan who stopped buying the paper after the Sinclair for Wembley article told me afterwards that he was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I personally felt that the explanations given, particularly for the Inn on the Green reports and Bradley Orr, were valid, and logic tells me that the Evening Post has nothing to gain and lots to lose by pursuing an agenda to follow one team over the other. It's a statement of fact that many left the meeting reassured and I struggle to see how you interpret it as a false and misleading argument.

Apologies, I expressed myself badly. My intention was that the EP response is sophistry (in my eyes). That is it is superficially plausible but unconvincing (to put it politely) in the light of its track record. It was not my intention to criticise the Trust or its members.

[Gazred]

the Evening Post is a biased crock of crap.

Couldn't of put it better myself. After reading the interview I'm quite shocked that they didnt make the most of this chance to win some City supporters back over.

Some journalists (perhaps nearly all!) seem to care nothing for the people that read what they write and only for furthering there own careers with big headlines and exclusives. Seeing how many non Bristolians or non Bristol football followers they actualy have on there sports desk just makes me understand more clearly why they are so out of touch with us, the supporters of our local teams, the people who would actualy buy the thing.

I gave up on the EP some years back and on reading all the above thats how its going to stay for the forseable future.

[thatcham red]

Can somebody please explain how the naming of thr r*vers mascot, Black Arab, (good luck with the PC brigade) makes the headline story on the news section of www.thisisroverssorrybristol.co.uk

Have they really? Priceless

I don't read the Post because I live outside of Bristol and tend not to check it online. I do pick one up when in Bristol though and am accutely aware of the stories that come under fire on here.

Having chaired the meeting though I have to tell you that the fans that turned up did give it a good go and were overtly critcial of many of the stories covered by the Evening Post. To Steve Mellen's credit, he did respond and hold his hands up when it came on top and the issue became indefensable.

I'm sure the mods will decide what is acceptable, however, i would hope we could have this debate without it becoming personal.

[edson]

Sorry, but in what way have you interpreted the article as sophistry? That's a pretty strong accusation to make.

The fan who stopped buying the paper after the Sinclair for Wembley article told me afterwards that he was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. I personally felt that the explanations given, particularly for the Inn on the Green reports and Bradley Orr, were valid, and logic tells me that the Evening Post has nothing to gain and lots to lose by pursuing an agenda to follow one team over the other. It's a statement of fact that many left the meeting reassured and I struggle to see how you interpret it as a false and misleading argument.

Milo, apologies if I'm not remembering this correctly, but were you not a victim of the Evening Post's misrepresentation yourself in the aftermath of the players being jailed?

I seem to recall you being extremely disappointed with the quote they attributed to you, when compared with what you actually said.

[Milo]

Apologies, I expressed myself badly. My intention was that the EP response is sophistry (in my eyes). That is it is superficially plausible but unconvincing (to put it politely) in the light of its track record. It was not my intention to criticise the Trust or its members.

Ok, thanks for your reply.

It's not my plan to become an apologist for the EP so I'll not get involved with the issue of what the EP reported on the reason for falling numbers of away fans, especially as I've not yet read the article.

[thatcham red]

Another example of perceived bias might be, if I click 'Bristol City' on the Evening Post website, I get stories from both clubs (including one about Rovers fans feeling the pinch and choosing their away games more carefully, with no mention of whether entertainment is an issue, despite the fact they've only won three games away from home since February):

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/bristolcitynew/news

If I click 'Bristol Rovers', the Bristol City stories are filtered out:

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/roversnew/news

On a related issue I just clicked on the link and read the story about City fans not travelling this season. I do agree that "In short, a significant number of City fans no longer feel they are being given value for money on the road" is largely unsubstantiated and it doesn't mention bubble matches. Otherwise, I didn't take exception to it.

From a personal point of view I opted out of Wolves because of the kick off time and Sheffield Utd because I have already committed to Charlton and Southampton. Time money (and Trust work ironically) are all factors.

[Steve Mellen]

I think City are experiencing a second season syndrome. Last season the away support was fantastic and put some Premier League clubs to shame. This season there's been a drop off and there are a number of factors associated with that.

I think the story about the Rovers mascot is tosh, if anyone's interested. And he doesn't even look like a pirate. Plus piracy is a crime. There's the real story, they're promoting ocean-based crime.

[cider head]

I think the story about the Rovers mascot is tosh, if anyone's interested. And he doesn't even look like a pirate. Plus piracy is a crime. There's the real story, they're promoting ocean-based crime.

:noexpression: :noexpression: hey??

''SPORTS EDITOR LABELS HIS PAPER'S STORY IS ''TOSH'''

Why allow it to be printed or re-written????? :noexpression:

[greenun]

So, perhaps someone can tell me who exactly that article was aimed at? Why don't the EP just stick to publishing facts - about injuries, signings, how to get to away grounds etc - and spare us the opinions. IMO they would do better to carry a message saying 'If you want to know how things are going at City - go to AG, speak to someone who does, or log into www.otib.co.uk' - job done!

If I was an Evening Post reporter my answer to your question would be, what stories would you like me to publish? Do I just have to listen, type, then publish the club's talking points without any thoughts of my own? In that case I'll resign my position as a reporter and tell the Sports Desk to rely on City to issue them with press releases which they'll publish verbatim.

There's a name for that - propoganda.

[chowie]

[edson]

I think City are experiencing a second season syndrome. Last season the away support was fantastic and put some Premier League clubs to shame. This season there's been a drop off and there are a number of factors associated with that.

I think the story about the Rovers mascot is tosh, if anyone's interested. And he doesn't even look like a pirate. Plus piracy is a crime. There's the real story, they're promoting ocean-based crime.

EVENING POST 'TOSH' SAYS SPORTS EDITOR

Evening Post sports editor, Steve Mellen, today sensationally branded a story in his newspaper as 'tosh', casting serious doubts over the faith he has in his own reporters to produce quality copy.

Mellen, who was responding to allegations of bias on a Bristol City fans' forum, made the astounding claim in relation to an article one of his reporters had written about the new Bristol Rovers mascot.

The comment seems set to cause huge discontent in the Evening Post offices, though we haven't actually bothered to speak to anyone there to confirm that, but we'll present it so it looks like a fact anyway.

More tosh news to follow.

[Steve Mellen]

I'd have put the bit about discontent in the office higher up. Apart from that, the job's yours

[RedM]

EVENING POST 'TOSH' SAYS SPORTS EDITOR

Evening Post sports editor, Steve Mellen, today sensationally branded a story in his newspaper as 'tosh', casting serious doubts over the faith he has in his own reporters to produce quality copy.

Mellen, who was responding to allegations of bias on a Bristol City fans' forum, made the astounding claim in relation to an article one of his reporters had written about the new Bristol Rovers mascot.

The comment seems set to cause huge discontent in the Evening Post offices, though we haven't actually bothered to speak to anyone there to confirm that, but we'll present it so it looks like a fact anyway.

More tosh news to follow.

You're hired!

[BCFC_Dan]

If I was an Evening Post reporter my answer to your question would be, what stories would you like me to publish? Do I just have to listen, type, then publish the club's talking points without any thoughts of my own? In that case I'll resign my position as a reporter and tell the Sports Desk to rely on City to issue them with press releases which they'll publish verbatim.

There's a name for that - propoganda.

If the reporter's own thoughts are clearly biased against one of the teams being covered by the paper then that's equally bad.

However, newspapers always offer editorial with some kind of bias or other, much more than that shown by any other news media, and this seems to be the norm. The only solution is not to buy the paper if you don't agree with it. Personally I can't stand the opinions offered in papers like the Daily Mail, so I don't buy it. Likewise the Evening Post. The difference in Bristol is that there is no alternative. But there's nothing to stop someone from starting a competing paper with a clear bias towards City.

[Steve Mellen]

Last comment for today

As I said at the Trust meeting, there is no bias against City. Commercially it makes no sense, sales-wise it makes no sense, and I think anyone who thinks any newspaper would deliberately set out its stall against the team performing best in its area should consider why we'd want to do that.

There's a difference between a general bias, and individual stories that could have been handled better.

[chinapig]

If I was an Evening Post reporter my answer to your question would be, what stories would you like me to publish? Do I just have to listen, type, then publish the club's talking points without any thoughts of my own? In that case I'll resign my position as a reporter and tell the Sports Desk to rely on City to issue them with press releases which they'll publish verbatim.

There's a name for that - propoganda.

Can't speak for anyone else but my answer to your question is emphatically no. As a reader all I expect is that reporting is accurate and based on adequate research. It helps also if reportage is distinguished from opinion. I certainly have no objection to the press criticising legitimately. If a reporter thinks a team has played badly or the club has done something wrong he or she should say so. Distorting or cherry picking the evidence is another thing altogether, and not something that is restricted to the EP by any means.

My idea of a fine sports journalist is David Conn of the Guardian. Thoroughly researched, knowledgable, critical where appropriate, giving credit where it is due.

[Milo]

Milo, apologies if I'm not remembering this correctly, but were you not a victim of the Evening Post's misrepresentation yourself in the aftermath of the players being jailed?

I seem to recall you being extremely disappointed with the quote they attributed to you, when compared with what you actually said.

Yes, and I raised this at the meeting. In fairness, I focussed more heavily on their overall reporting of this topic, which I know at the time caused a great strain between the Club and the paper. With regards to my comments, my memory has it that I gave a balanced comment about condemning their behaviour but commenting on their harsh sentence and the court using the players to make an example for society. However, the paper just ran my comment that I felt sorry for them. This would not have been too much of a problem if the editors comment hadn't told readers to not feel sorry them. My anger about the players' behaviour was total at the time the news broke, but had dissipated over the months that led up to the trial, and my comment. I felt somewhat hung out to dry; knowing that the judgment was unexpectedly harsh and bearing the brunt of accusations from supporters for not joining in the public condemnation.

But you know what edson, you learn lessons in life all the time and it takes two to communicate. Since then, on the few occasions I've been asked, I've tended to write out comments before speaking with reporters so that they can use an accurate quote that I'm happy with.

I don't think it's healthy to go around full of anger and bitterness about past events. Strong and passionate words were said at the meeting, I listened to the answers and made a judgment. Life's too short, it's history and I'll move on to the next chapter.

[dezgimed]

Just out of interest...

The sportsdesk does employ people who support local teams, we have two City fans on the desk. There are Rovers fans elsewhere on the editorial floor. In reply to a post earlier, Andy Stockhausen supports Brentford, and has a soft spot for Arsenal. He doesn't support Rovers.

b***ocks.

I've spoken to him various times and he says as a London lad he supports Brentford, but when in Bristol, his allegience is with Rov*rs. From his very own mouth. And as I said before, I've seen him dancing around a pub in glee, shouting Gas songs, after their PO Semi Final result at Lincoln.

[cider head]

Last comment for today

As I said at the Trust meeting, there is no bias against City. Commercially it makes no sense, sales-wise it makes no sense, and I think anyone who thinks any newspaper would deliberately set out its stall against the team performing best in its area should consider why we'd want to do that.

There's a difference between a general bias, and individual stories that could have been handled better.

on the note of ''bias'' i find it strange you posting about a gas story mascot being ''tosh'' on a bristol city forum

(can of worms fella no matter how it was intended) plus going to bristol city supporters trust meetings (no problem with that

myself) but i'm sure bristol rovers fans would see you now as bias towards bristol city? as some bristol city fans see bias with Andy Stockhausen against bristol city.

[sunningdalered]

If I was an Evening Post reporter my answer to your question would be, what stories would you like me to publish? Do I just have to listen, type, then publish the club's talking points without any thoughts of my own? In that case I'll resign my position as a reporter and tell the Sports Desk to rely on City to issue them with press releases which they'll publish verbatim.

There's a name for that - propoganda.

I wasn't referring to AG officialdom - I was referring to us fans. To be clear, I'm not interested in the opinions of an EP reporter (ha ha), and Yes, I'd be quite happy with nothing more than facts and the odd GJ / player interview. It's when the EP attempt to do 'some editorial' that it goes tits!

[Milo]

on the note of ''bias'' i find it strange you posting about a gas story mascot being ''tosh'' on a bristol city forum

(can of worms fella no matter how it was intended) plus going to bristol city supporters trust meetings (no problem with that

myself) but i'm sure bristol rovers fans would see you now as bias towards bristol city? as some bristol city fans see bias with Andy Stockhausen against bristol city.

Sure, there may be one or two supporters amongst the blue few willing to take it out of context and reach such a conclusion, but therein lies part of the problem the EP has to deal with. There will be occasions when it's not the rational analysis of what's written, but the partisan viewpoint of the reader that causes the problem. For the record, Steve Mellen confirmed he would accept a similar invitation if offered by a Rovers' supporters group.

[cider head]

Sure, there may be one or two supporters amongst the blue few willing to take it out of context and reach such a conclusion, but therein lies part of the problem the EP has to deal with. There will be occasions when it's not the rational analysis of what's written, but the partisan viewpoint of the reader that causes the problem. For the record, Steve Mellen confirmed he would accept a similar invitation if offered by a Rovers' supporters group.

I agree it is problem the EP need to deal with but it spills on to forums and gives us all a headache dealing with it seeing the EP need to be un-bias and we pick up the pices and seen as mods/admin censoring a view point back at the EP

over them for gas mocking, so far it is yet to kick off

to be fair i'm all for a bit of gas mocking and did enjoy the comments (which should be in private) but i'm looking out now for an influx of angry gas heads on here moaning about a ruddy mascot

[Redhyde]

Last comment for today

As I said at the Trust meeting, there is no bias against City. Commercially it makes no sense, sales-wise it makes no sense, and I think anyone who thinks any newspaper would deliberately set out its stall against the team performing best in its area should consider why we'd want to do that.

There's a difference between a general bias, and individual stories that could have been handled better.

May i make the humble sugestion of checking your online content and making sure it is also balanced. Nowt about rovers in the headlined work "Entertainment, not economics, driving Bristol City's travelling fans" Nothing about home attendances being up despite economics.

I'd also like to think that you think more of us as people..that you'd instruct the headline writers to come up with things that make us want to pick up the paper rather than dismiss it.

And why does the EP pick up on rumours started on here..then question GJ about it. How about asking him questions that people discuss on here? What were the reasons behind him changing the formation this season? That has massive interest on here and isn't exactly inflamatory. Much more so than asking a person who says "i won't comment on signings before they happen" about future signings and rumours?

I know i'm slating the EP but i think it's great you've come on to put your points across. That is appreciated.

[Red_Mat]

One Kidderminster fan

Who happens to write about and support Bristol Rovers. I met him a number of years ago whilst filming a piece about football, and Chris himself told me that he supported them, as well as hating City. I remember, because of the 'banter' we enjoyed.

[Red_Mat]

I would also suggest, as someone who has worked in the media, the suggestion that the story of one alleged racist remark is more newsworthy than an incident involving 200 people invading the pitch, is rubbish.

I in no way condone racism and find it adhorent. However, both events are illegal. It is illegal in this country to invade a sporting arena like that, and the fact 200 thugs invaded the pitch with such threatening behaviour is at least equally, if not far more newsworthy than one alleged racist remark, later unproven.

Effectively, one should not have been prioritised over another and both should have been separate stories.

Let's remember the last pitch invasion at Ashton Gate, when City supporters were blamed, although Rvers fans were on the pitch first...

[Red_Mat]

I can completely understand using the end of the Romeo 4 trial as an opportunity to report fully on the incident. For legal reasons, a paper wouldn't be able to say much at all beforehand. Whatever we say, it was a big story locally.

However, by our research and the Post's own admission a jail sentence was highly unlikely and probably unjustified for this incident. What the Post should have done was take a much more moral stance. These players were not put away for the right reasons in line with law; they were put away in line with one judges decision to set an example.

The Evening Post should have used their 'comment' section to say how reprehensible this was.