Lee Johnson - Perhaps Why He's Selected.

[And Its Smith]

I expect there are City fans who think that Lee Johnson gets picked ONLY because he is Gary's son. In my opinion, this is a ridiculous point of view and shows a lack of respect for Gary as a manager.

The truth is that Lee is so much more effective with a quality central midfielder alongside him and when our four defenders don't play the WHOOSH football we have come to expect recently. Lee does need to get on the ball further up the field where he can do more damage but I don't think his ability once he has the ball can be doubted.

If you look at Championship players who have created the most chances this season he lies 8th with 12. This proves that not only is he our most effective player at creating chances for others but one of the best in the division.

If City can adapt their tactics back to more of the fluent passing we saw last season then we will again see the best of Lee Johnson. When was the last time you saw a City midfielder with the ball at his feet and in space 30-40 yards from goal? It just hasnt happened this season. That and the long balls are what's wrong with City at the moment, not the selection of Lee Johnson.

[bh_red]

link?

[And Its Smith]

link?

I don't have a link as the list is in today's Observer but here it is:

1. Hunt - Reading - 25

2. Elliott - Burnley - 17

2. Whittingham - Cardiff - 17

4. Fotheringham - Norwich - 16

4. Fox - Coventry - 16

6. Nicholson - Preston - 14

7. Commons - Derby - 13

8. Johnson - Bristol City - 12

9. Clark - Plymouth - 11

Cohen - Forest - 11

Cotterill - Sheff Utd - 11

Foley - Wolves - 11

[Tunley Legend]

Completely and utterly disagree I'm afraid. Statistics can easily massage or enhance a player's real contribution to the team. Where is our "creative" midfield player placed in the list of goalscoring midfielders in the division for example? If you had a league table of "bottled out tackles" our Lee would be miles ahead and almost uncatchable in my view. In other words, perhaps you need to look at all "statistics" as a whole or better still form your own judgement based upon what you have actually seen for yourself. I was at Sheffield last week and Johnson was totally ineffective throughout the ninety minutes and was jointly at fault for Sheffield's first goal which ultimately swung the game in their favour - is there a league table for that kind of contribution?

I see players like David Noble come onto the pitch and make things happen - a 25 yard free kick, a 30 yard screamer and a nice curling effort from the edge of the box all in recent memory and I simply do not see that contribution from Lee Johnson. In my view he can only perform as a holding type player in a midfield 5 where he can pick the ball up from the back four and keep it moving quickly - he does not possess a shot of any note, cannot go past a player and has a very limited range to his passing (normally ten yards backwards or sideways) and therefore is not even close to being a good Championship standard midfield player in a 4-4-2 formation. I am not suggesting that nepotism is the reason he gets picked at all but I do believe that we:-

1) have better midfield options at the club already and

2) MUST find better midfield options from either inside or outside the club in order to make a success of this season

For the people who go on about our form when he was missing at the end of last season I would simply suggest that his inclusion this season has not seen any positive improvement on it whatsoever.

[bh_red]

I don't have a link as the list is in today's Observer but here it is:

1. Hunt - Reading - 25

2. Elliott - Burnley - 17

2. Whittingham - Cardiff - 17

4. Fotheringham - Norwich - 16

4. Fox - Coventry - 16

6. Nicholson - Preston - 14

7. Commons - Derby - 13

8. Johnson - Bristol City - 12

9. Clark - Plymouth - 11

Cohen - Forest - 11

Cotterill - Sheff Utd - 11

Foley - Wolves - 11

I'm guessing you mean the Bristol Observer? because that's just complete and utter rubbish? what's this actually based on?

Considering we have scored 13 goals this season, I think it's just plain stupid to LJ has created 12.

another interesting thing is that Elliott and Whittingham have created 17 goals each for their teams?.......more infact that the actually amount of goals that their teams have scored this season? looking down the list it's the same with other players? Cohen 11? but forest have scored 7 goals?

quite simply this is one of the most stupid things I've ever seen

[Tunley Legend]

well that's just complete and utter rubbish? what's this actually based on?

Considering we have scored 13 goals this season, I think it's just plain stupid to LJ has created 12.

another interesting thing is that Elliott and Whittingham have created 17 goals each for their teams?.......more infact that the actually amount of goals that their teams have scored this season? looking down the list it's the same with other players? Cohen 11? but forest have scored 7 goals?

quite simply this is one of the most stupid things I've ever seen

It's a list of who has created the most chances, not the most goals but even allowing for this you still have to judge a players overall value to the team based on what you have seen (and sometimes what you HAVEN'T seen) rather than by a statistic on a piece of newspaper.

[bh_red]

It's a list of who has created the most chances, not the most goals but even allowing for this you still have to judge a players overall value to the team based on what you have seen rather than by a statistic on a piece of newspaper.

d'oh.........I'm going back to bed......blooy hangover

[And Its Smith]

d'oh.........I'm going back to bed......blooy hangover

Think thats probably for the best!!

The post is pointing out a reason for Lee's selection every week rather than the mindless "He's only picked cos he's Gary's son" brigade.

People say he doesnt create anything. This list proves that he does. Whether that is enough is also up for debate.

[Keep the Faith]

I don't have a link as the list is in today's Observer but here it is:

1. Hunt - Reading - 25

2. Elliott - Burnley - 17

2. Whittingham - Cardiff - 17

4. Fotheringham - Norwich - 16

4. Fox - Coventry - 16

6. Nicholson - Preston - 14

7. Commons - Derby - 13

8. Johnson - Bristol City - 12

9. Clark - Plymouth - 11

Cohen - Forest - 11

Cotterill - Sheff Utd - 11

Foley - Wolves - 11

Wade Eilliot from Burnley is a right winger isn't he? I wonder how much he would cost we could do with a player consistently creating chances from the right wing.

[Tales From The Front]

He was also up there as one of our alledged most creative playerlast season, in a side that scored fewer goals than relagated Colchester. Makes you wonder what the side would do with a more dynamic player?

With regard this specific justification I agree with Greebo it all depends on end result. No question he sees lots of the ball, trouble is its usualy on the edge of his own box and results in little. His contribution without the ball is very limited, most appear to recognise this point, therefore if his contibution with the ball has to be game effecting and to date this season it has been not.

His level of performance (in a side that has one win in seven) in my opinion does not justify continued selection. Soemthing is clearly missing in the midfield, not only to win a game but people must remember to stay in a game its all very well being Citys most "creative" player if he is also responsiable for the side being two down because we cannot control or compete in the vital middle area of the pitch.

[dezgimed]

Stats are stats. You can manipulate them to prove anything. This info says he's decent. My analysis of him last season against fellow central midfielders says he is average-poor.

Fact is you can see on the pitch if theres any value added from his inclusion, and I cant.

[Tales From The Front]

Stats are stats. You can manipulate them to prove anything. This info says he's decent. My analysis of him last season against fellow central midfielders says he is average-poor.

Fact is you can see on the pitch if theres any value added from his inclusion, and I cant.

Agreed.

Governments use stas all the time to prove or get you to beleive in what they want you to. Doesn't mean they will get your vote though does it? As personal experience usualy counts the most. Therefore what you see on a Saturday in the main will form your opinions.

[dezgimed]

Think thats probably for the best!!

The post is pointing out a reason for Lee's selection every week rather than the mindless "He's only picked cos he's Gary's son" brigade.

People say he doesnt create anything. This list proves that he does. Whether that is enough is also up for debate.

But as has been said already, the chances he's created havent necessarily created goals.

Perhaps an indicator of the (lack of) quality of his 'assists' ?

[Riaz]

Stats are stats. You can manipulate them to prove anything. This info says he's decent. My analysis of him last season against fellow central midfielders says he is average-poor.

Fact is you can see on the pitch if theres any value added from his inclusion, and I cant.

Well your analysis is very poor. The FACT is Lee Johnson was a key part of the side that was top after 38 games - he was injured after and guess what... we drop out of it.

With LJ in the side we had title winning form, after that the next 11 games where he didnt start we won 4 drew 1 and lost 6!!

I don't think it was a coincidence.

[Tales From The Front]

Well your analysis is very poor. The FACT is Lee Johnson was a key part of the side that was top after 38 games - he was injured after and guess what... we drop out of it.

With LJ in the side we had title winning form, after that the next 11 games where he didnt start we won 4 drew 1 and lost 6!!

I don't think it was a coincidence.

He is also part of a side that has only won once is seven games and has proved incapable of influencing games this year in what would appear to be a tough league. I would aso diagree about the key part of last season as well. An outstanding Marvin Elliott gave Johnson the platform to play, when Elliott became burn't out and increasingly injury prone towards the ends of the season Johnson's influence dropped measurably.

[Riaz]

He is also part of a side that has only won once is seven games and has proved incapable of influencing games this year in what would appear to be a tough league. I would aso diagree about the key part of last season as well. An outstanding Marvin Elliott gave Johnson the platform to play, when Elliott became burn't out and increasingly injury prone towards the ends of the season Johnson's influence dropped measurably.

Well, as I see it the problem is not Lee Johnson, its the team as a whole!! we are not playing to the TEAMS strengths, we are playing to Dele Adebola's strengths - this is why we are struggling in my opinion. We did superbly before dele came - but we've become very average since!

[Tales From The Front]

Well, as I see it the problem is not Lee Johnson, its the team as a whole!! we are not playing to the TEAMS strengths, we are playing to Dele Adebola's strengths - this is why we are struggling in my opinion. We did superbly before dele came - but we've become very average since!

Understand what you are saying, there is a tendancy for all teams to go to direct when with a big guy up the front. Much better to exploit that strength buy playing wide men to get crosses into the box from deep on the big mans head. Both Everton and Newcastle made this mistake with Duncan Ferguson a better alround player than many gave him credit for. Trouble is City's wide men have / are being asked to tuck inside to cover a very light weight central midfield.

Only my opinion but City will continue to play long and bypass the midfield if they continualy lose the right to get the ball down and play. Adebola might be a sympton as to why we are not playing the ball on the floor by trying to get the ball to him to quickly, but I don't think he the main cause of the problem you highlight.

[dezgimed]

Well your analysis is very poor. The FACT is Lee Johnson was a key part of the side that was top after 38 games - he was injured after and guess what... we drop out of it.

With LJ in the side we had title winning form, after that the next 11 games where he didnt start we won 4 drew 1 and lost 6!!

I don't think it was a coincidence.

LJ WAS part of that side. Note the past tense.

This season he IS part of a team struggling, with 1 win in 7.

As our chief creator he has to take some responsibility.

[Riaz]

LJ WAS part of that side. Note the past tense.

This season he IS part of a team struggling, with 1 win in 7.

As our chief creator he has to take some responsibility.

Lee Johnson is a very small chap and is never going to flourish in a long ball side!

[CiderSomerset]

Well, as I see it the problem is not Lee Johnson, its the team as a whole!! we are not playing to the TEAMS strengths, we are playing to Dele Adebola's strengths - this is why we are struggling in my opinion. We did superbly before dele came - but we've become very average since!

Got to agree with you there. The best midfielders in the world are not going to be effective if they are watching the ball flying over their heads. LJ is more suited to a passing game and likes to pick the ball up deep and pass it around. We are not doing that, we are simply hhofing it up to Dele more often than not.

It almost seems as if LJ is getting the blame for all our poor results..

[Tales From The Front]

Got to agree with you there. The best midfielders in the world are not going to be effective if they are watching the ball flying over their heads. LJ is more suited to a passing game and likes to pick the ball up deep and pass it around. We are not doing that, we are simply hhofing it up to Dele more often than not.

It almost seems as if LJ is getting the blame for all our poor results..

Of course he is not wholely respsosiable and I honestly don't think anyone is suggesting that. His contribution has been brought into debate becuase in mine and others opinion he isn't playing well, certianly not influencing games as you suggest.

I would again state that the midfield is being bypassed becuase the midfield cannot win and retain possesion enough to control a passing style of play. Lee Johnson is an integeral part of that and Lee Johnson or any other player for that matter cannot expect other players to do that ugly side of the game for him. If Lee Johnson was as gifted and influenced a game as Matt Le Tissier did in his prime it would be worth building a team round him, but unfortunately for him he is not. And whilst other players have been dropped or subbed he has not and I and I suspect others based on his perofrmances struggle to understand that.

[dezgimed]

Lee Johnson is a very small chap and is never going to flourish in a long ball side!

Perhaps its time Johnson replaced him with an equally poor creative midfielder who meets the physical requirements then?

Harsh as it may sound, LJ struggles at this level physically and wouldnt get a sniff in the Prem.

[Riaz]

Lee Johnson isnt play well but who is apart from dele?? the whole team is suffering.

[Riaz]

Perhaps its time Johnson replaced him with an equally poor creative midfielder who meets the physical requirements then?

Harsh as it may sound, LJ struggles at this level physically and wouldnt get a sniff in the Prem.

A creative midfielder with wings??

[Tales From The Front]

Lee Johnson isnt play well but who is apart from dele?? the whole team is suffering.

Agreed, but the whole team is lacking confidence. This will be difficult to change until a few battles are won on the pitch to give a platform to get the ball down and play and ecourgae the WHOLE team to pass the ball on the deck to feet, this will not change.

I really do not see Lee Johnson being able to physicaly contibute to that and therefore should be replaced in the first eleven. Giving Noble and Trundle a chaance, who are perhaps City two most confortable players on the ball may also help ball retention and give the whole team a chance to play football on the floor.

The ironic thing about this current "crisis" is that we were faced with this same Scenario at half time away to Stoke at the end of last season. The solution Gary Johnson succesfully came up with was to bring on Noble Trundle and Carle, City's perfornaces right up to Wembley improved beyound all recognition after that.

[ashbrisc11]

I'm guessing you mean the Bristol Observer? because that's just complete and utter rubbish? what's this actually based on?

Considering we have scored 13 goals this season, I think it's just plain stupid to LJ has created 12.

another interesting thing is that Elliott and Whittingham have created 17 goals each for their teams?.......more infact that the actually amount of goals that their teams have scored this season? looking down the list it's the same with other players? Cohen 11? but forest have scored 7 goals?

quite simply this is one of the most stupid things I've ever seen

well it doesnt say goals it says chances

[Riaz]

Agreed, but the whole team is lacking confidence. This will be difficult to change until a few battles are won on the pitch to give a platform to get the ball down and play and ecourgae the WHOLE team to pass the ball on the deck to feet, this will not change.

I really do not see Lee Johnson being able to physicaly contibute to that and therefore should be replaced in the first eleven.

Why not, he was good enough for the first 38 games last season?? what has changed (apart from our style of play )

Giving Noble and Trundle a chaance, who are perhaps City two most confortable players on the ball may also help ball retention and give the whole team a chance to play football on the floor.

I'm all for other players such as Noble & Williams being given an opportunity to play there and stake their claim, especially Nobes.

The ironic thing about this current "crisis" is that we were faced with this same Scenario at half time away to Stoke at the end of last season. The solution Gary Johnson succesfully came up with was to bring on Noble Trundle and Carle, City's perfornaces right up to Wembley improved beyound all recognition after that.

It should be noted that we had skuse in midfield not LJ. when carle started to get his fitness, we played well. But I'm sure we'd play just as well with LJ, Nobes & Trundle in the SAME side.

[CiderSomerset]

Of course he is not wholely respsosiable and I honestly don't think anyone is suggesting that. His contribution has been brought into debate becuase in mine and others opinion he isn't playing well, certianly not influencing games as you suggest.

I would again state that the midfield is being bypassed becuase the midfield cannot win and retain possesion enough to control a passing style of play. Lee Johnson is an integeral part of that and Lee Johnson or any other player for that matter cannot expect other players to do that ugly side of the game for him. If Lee Johnson was as gifted and influenced a game as Matt Le Tissier did in his prime it would be worth building a team round him, but unfortunately for him he is not. And whilst other players have been dropped or subbed he has not and I and I suspect others based on his perofrmances struggle to understand that.

I agree that he isnt playing well, but I did not say he was influencing games..

We are not playing to his strengths which is not helping matters. Same applies to Maynard. Hoofball is not the way to go and I would love to see Trunds and Noble in the starting 11. LJ has missed Elliott alongside him IMO, and when Marv gets to full fitness (hopefully he will be for the Norwhich game) maybe we will see a different LJ..

Another factor this season could be that we have had a bloody hard start fixture wise. With the money (and players) available to clubs such as Brum, Wolves, Sheff Utd etc, does anyone really think we are going to be beating sides such as those week in week out?

We have got an easier run of games coming up compared to those played so far, and if we can get a bit of confidence back in the players, I think we will be knocking on the door of the play-offs again.

I just hope, for the sake of the team, everyone leaves any negative vibes at the turnstile and gets behind the team 100% right from kick off against Norwich. And if LJ starts, let give him some support rather than waiting for a mistake from him so people can berate him.

[Lack of Action Man]

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that Lee hasn't directly set up 12 goals this season or chances from open play.

If the people that wrote this are taking into account corners and free kicks then maybe but still the figures in that table seem pretty

strange to say the least.

[Tunley Legend]

Well your analysis is very poor. The FACT is Lee Johnson was a key part of the side that was top after 38 games - he was injured after and guess what... we drop out of it.

With LJ in the side we had title winning form, after that the next 11 games where he didnt start we won 4 drew 1 and lost 6!!

I don't think it was a coincidence.

You can't have your cake and eat it!!! You cannot point to Lee Johnson's omission as being DIRECTLY RESPONSIBLE for the loss of form last season and then totally deny the argument that his re-inclusion into the side this season has not improved the form one iota this season. Anyone on this forum who thinks that Lee Johnson is so good that his omission from our side weakens it to that extent is quite simply deluded. Notwithstanding the loss of form it must have been clear to almost everyone that our best form we showed all last season and the only time we looked a constant goalscoring threat throughout the 90 minutes in matches coincided with a trio of Noble, Carle and Trundle being in the side. I agree we may have lost a little bit defensively but you weren't half looking forward to the football we were playing in those matches.

Last season we were a cautious side on the whole who got players behind the ball, scrapped for our lives, defended brilliantly and ground out many 1-0 wins. Our goalscoring record spoke for itself in that regard. That was understandable in the context that our ambition at the start of the season was simply to stay in the league and worked a treat as side after side struggled to break us down and we ended up surpassing all expectations. It was noticable in many matches where we conceded first we ended up losing comfortably which is again understandable as by exercising caution you have to sacrifice the quality that can often get you back into a match. Lee Johnson's style of play works in a cautious formation as he is prepared to STAY BEHIND the ball and simply keep it moving when it arrives at his feet.

This season I am slightly disappointed in way we have gone about things. We are still exercising caution when I was convinced that we were going to expand our play a little bit, be more open and introduce some quality. Instead, we seem to be as cautious as ever (apart from scoring four against a Doncaster side who are proving most weeks that they cannot defend to save their lives) and more worryingly appear to be adopting a route 1 approach which, if continued throughout the season, will see a couple of thousand off the season ticket sales next season - I do hope both Steve Lansdown and Gary Johnson grasp this point. In order to change the cautious and route 1 approach I believe we need better quality than Lee Johnson in our midfield. I can appreciate the good job he has done for our team in the past but being sentimental and dwelling on the past does not get you anywhere in football and I am afraid to say that the team needs a higher standard of player in his position to evolve to the next level in my opinion.