New Forum Rules

[edson]

As you'll see, we're implementing some new forum rules, which are pinned at the top of this forum HERE.

Please take a minute to read them and use this thread to ask any questions or make any suggestions.

The idea is not to be stricter, but simply to make otib a place where more people feel inclined to join in and give an opinion without fear of being abused or intimidated.

We really hope you all agree this will be an improvement and that you will help us to make it work.

Thanks.

[bristolcitysweden]

As you'll see, we're implementing some new forum rules, which are pinned at the top of this forum HERE.

Please take a minute to read them and use this thread to ask any questions or make any suggestions.

The idea is not to be stricter, but simply to make otib a place where more people feel inclined to join in and give an opinion without fear of being abused or intimidated.

We really hope you all agree this will be an improvement and that you will help us to make it work.

Thanks.

Think we all have posts that we are not very proud of.

We are all City fans and should not insult each other. Whatever opinion.

I'll do my best

[Henry]

Think it seems a great idea, if you manage to get 5 warnings in a 2 month period I don't think anyone can complain.

What is critical for this to work, IMO, is communication from the mods explaining why posts are removed etc.

[dezgimed]

Good.

I hope it applies to all forum users uniformly.

[Nibor]

Don't envy the mods much looking at that, seems like it will require quite a bit of effort.

I would be inclined to just go for a simpler three strikes and out for the rest of the year policy, clean slate everyone in January.

Also I reckon it would be helpful if warnings/mod decisions were posted in a locked forum that all posters could read (not reply to) to stop people moaning about inconsistency.

Oh, and anyone who uses txt spk or turns a thread into a Lee Johnson or Happy Clappy vs Moaner one to have their fingers amputated with a spoon obviously.

Seriously, thanks mods for your hard work. Don't make it harder for yourselves than it needs to be.

[Ian M]

Think it seems a great idea, if you manage to get 5 warnings in a 2 month period I don't think anyone can complain.

What is critical for this to work, IMO, is communication from the mods explaining why posts are removed etc.

In terms of individual posts we'll try to PM the individual concerned but where a whole thread is deleted, we could try posting a reason on a closed thread at the top of the forum.

[Tales From The Front]

Fair play to all the mods for taking the time to look into this.

I would agree that the atmosphere of late has been ######ly to say the least and my biggest concern that oppions that perhaps don't form the general concensus or might be in conflict with the "party line spin" have been unfairly treated.

I think provided a person puts a decent argument that is not offensive or in breach of the aformentioned rules, this should be debated sensiably, whether the individual is for or against the orginal post. I think that is the one thing that we have lost sight of late.

But full marks again for broaching this, now its down to the masses. Hopefully made easier by a return to form from the boys in Red!

[ribsbcfc]

sounds fair to me

[edson]

Also I reckon it would be helpful if warnings/mod decisions were posted in a locked forum that all posters could read (not reply to) to stop people moaning about inconsistency.

We'll see if that's covered off in the suggestion Madger's made. I'm not sure warnings should be made public on every occasion, as it's almost impossible to be 100% consistent due to interpretation, and we'd probably leave ourselves open to accusations of favouritism etc.

Oh, and anyone who uses txt spk or turns a thread into a Lee Johnson or Happy Clappy vs Moaner one to have their fingers amputated with a spoon obviously.

That's a given.

[Ian M]

Also I reckon it would be helpful if warnings/mod decisions were posted in a locked forum that all posters could read (not reply to) to stop people moaning about inconsistency.

Whilst I've agreed with regard to thread deletions, I'm afraid I disagree regarding warnings/suspensions.

I believe that any disciplinary measures taken should be a private affair between the moderating team and the poster concerned. I believe there is little to be gained by "publicly hanging" anyone as this is more likely to incite them upon their return rather than adopt the respectful attitude we are trying to promote.

[Godzilla]

Whilst I've agreed with regard to thread deletions, I'm afraid I disagree regarding warnings/suspensions.

I believe that any disciplinary measures taken should be a private affair between the moderating team and the poster concerned. I believe there is little to be gained by "publicly hanging" anyone as this is more likely to incite them upon their return rather than adopt the respectful attitude we are trying to promote.

I agree.

I think a section explaining why threads have been deleted is a good idea; again, the best way to run this forum is with as much transparency as possible, where possible. But when it comes to dealing with posters individually as far as bans/punishments go, this should be done via PM because it's not really anybody else's business.

The most important thing is to just not take this place too seriously. It's just a forum. We can all have good debate and banter, but do it sensibly. We as a moderating team can improve for sure, but so can you guys as posters (ie. how you talk to/treat eachother).

This is a family forum and we want to create an atmosphere where men, women and kids can come on here and enjoy lively discussion about their favourite team. Whether you're a pessimist, realist or optimist you're entitled to your view, and so is everyone else. Respect the rules, but respect eachother too.

We're trying our best to improve things, but we need your help. Where possible use the report button. It's a great feature and it really helps us; in fact, we'll have our work cut out if you lot don't help us out with reporting stuff you think goes against the rules. And that is so much more productive than having a dig at a poster/the moderating team/the admins on the forum, because you'll just end up getting warned yourself.

When it boils down to it, we're all on the same side. It's a clean slate for everyone.

[Stoke_Gifford_Red]

I agree fully with this stance. I personally feel the forum has in a way lost some of the edgier debate over the years, mainly due to the nature of personal attacks against anyone with unpopular/unusual opinions. Hopefully these new rules will help minimise abuse, and as a result increase the chances of more diversified views. Well done mods.

[Guest Eamer]

Will there be someone purely to look at the abuse I receive? Haha

OR, can we get Lee Johnson to join the forums so that people moaning about him ALL THE TIME will get warnings all the time because he'd be a member?

[edson]

Will there be someone purely to look at the abuse I receive? Haha

OR, can we get Lee Johnson to join the forums so that people moaning about him ALL THE TIME will get warnings all the time because he'd be a member?

How do you know he isn't...?

What we're asking for is for people to post their views as strongly as they feel appropriate, but to do it with respect for who they're talking to and to consider who might be reading it. It is perfectly possible to have a very good debate without it deteriorating into personal abuse and snide remarks.

If that is the atmosphere we all create, then it will be a better forum for everyone and those who don't abide by the rules will stand out like a sore thumb, and the vast majority will feel confident enough not to to have to respond in kind, as they'll know it will be dealt with.

That's the plan anyway, and we really hope that as many of you as possible help us to achieve it.

[One Team In Keynsham]

In all honesty, I have no problem with abuse, name calling, swearing and the like. If someone needs to resort to personal attacks to try and win an argument, or to appear the hard-man on an internet chat forum then they come across as a total c0ck anyway, and thus I'd skip over their views in any event.

Thus, whilst I appreciate the intention of these new rules, I consider them unnecessary.

[cider head]

My concerns for this forum however right or wrong is when someones opinion is posted it is always (of late)

replied first by an insult like: you idiot!! or something similar then they get the opposed opinion in but by then the focus goes on the insult instead of the topic and all hell breaks loose and it becomes a battle of posters in every topic

from then on because all they want to do is get one over on the person who abused them no matter if they

agree or not and i have seen inconsistent views expressed because of this and people will disagree with

that posters views no matter what, just for the sake of it.

Why don't people just counter the opinion they don't agree with with reasoned words, ,

people need to remember that all walks of life post on this forum and sometimes young kids who want to join in

and are unsure how to and their postings (when they do post) will not be as clued in as everyone else so the last thing you need is (as a new poster) is to get called an idiot for your opinion (right or wrong) by mr i've been on otib for 10 years,

it puts people off posting, i'm not saying cut all humour and banter but just a little bit more respect to others is needed,

we have all been guilty of the above at some point but just of late it is far to consistent and ok i know it is never helped when things do not go to plan on the football pitch..

At the time of posting this there are 197 guests, 77 members, on this forum now guests are those just reading the forum

and not signed in or maybe not have a username to post and at this time it outweighs the members signed in to post,

now how do we get that 197 potential posting members to sign up if all they think is that they could be shot down in flames

on the first post, many will not sign up due to that very fact.

HAPPY CHRISTMAS..

[CiderHider]

Think we all have posts that we are not very proud of.

We are all City fans and should not insult each other. Whatever opinion.

Yeps...

I'll try to be a little nicer and considerate, I know I too can be a tad harsh, I think a lot of people here post from the heart and maybe give a distorted representation of their view, its easy to give a wrong impression as it is to interpret one.

Too many times though I've submitted a post and instantly regretted it, by which time its too late.. no excuses.

[easton boy]

We'll see if that's covered off in the suggestion Madger's made. I'm not sure warnings should be made public on every occasion, as it's almost impossible to be 100% consistent due to interpretation, and we'd probably leave ourselves open to accusations of favouritism etc.

That's a given.

I do appreciate you not leaving yourselves or posters out to dry, but it would be useful if you could highlight SOME that resulted in warnings as examples so that others do not transgress, i.e. have a pinned thread with posts that have resulted in a warning - but remove the posters name from the example so the do not feel like they are being publicly castigated(oohh sounds painful).

Also Huw, I thought, generally you always had the last post explaining why a thread had been closed anyway?

[Barrs Court Red]

About time, I've long said this place should have the same rules as TFF.

I'd also crack down on fishing and idiots.

Given this "new dawn" I'll treat the forum and its members with respect, as I suspect this will reduce post counts and raise the quality.

[edson]

I do appreciate you not leaving yourselves or posters out to dry, but it would be useful if you could highlight SOME that resulted in warnings as examples so that others do not transgress, i.e. have a pinned thread with posts that have resulted in a warning - but remove the posters name from the example so the do not feel like they are being publicly castigated(oohh sounds painful).

Also Huw, I thought, generally you always had the last post explaining why a thread had been closed anyway?

Yeah, we'll continue to do that where possible. However, in cases where the thread is removed completely, we'll leave a note in the pinned thread at the top of this forum explaining why.

Hopefully, a bit of increased transparency on our part will help everyone to appreciate why an action has been taken. Obviously, not everyone will agree with everything we do and we will make mistakes, but as long as it's done from a position of openness and understanding, we can go some way towards removing any 'them and us' feelings.

About time, I've long said this place should have the same rules as TFF.

I'd also crack down on fishing and idiots.

Given this "new dawn" I'll treat the forum and its members with respect, as I suspect this will reduce post counts and raise the quality.

That's something we'll look at as we go along. I think there's probably room for tackling posts like that where they're deliberately inflammatory or antagonistic, but it's a little less clear cut than abuse, so we'll rely on everyone to help us on this by using the report button and we'll try to make a fair judgement based on that.

[Robbored]

Theres a danger of having rules, sub rules and extraordinary rules which ulitimately makes the moderators job that much more demanding and time consuming.

Personally I like the 'report' button. Its use is upto the recipient of any personal abuse to use it or not depending on thier personal choice. I'm not sure a moderator making a judgement on whether or not I've been insulted is the right way. Surely thats the individuals call?

I have no problem with mods closing a thread after its been done to death or restarted for umpteenth time - thats an appropriate action that spares the forum a great deal of angst.

[Guest RobbieTurner]

All of this sounds super. Maybe it will replace the days when you have banned people for 1 off comments - yes I was one of them under a different name and then not bother to tell them they are banned. Oh sorry, yes I was told by PM that I was banned - but that was suspended before I could read it ??!?

I them sent e-mail after e-mail to ask why as it appeared very harsh....no reply....ever...!

I then approached TomF on another City forum....he was going to look into it about 6 weeks-2months ago....still no reply...still banned.

If you are going to make rules thats fine, but follow them through properly and fairly. Otherwise it makes it a bit of a mockery.

[edson]

Theres a danger of having rules, sub rules and extraordinary rules which ulitimately makes the moderators job that much more demanding and time consuming.

Personally I like the 'report' button. Its use is upto the recipient of any personal abuse to use it or not depending on thier personal choice. I'm not sure a moderator making a judgement on whether or not I've been insulted is the right way. Surely thats the individuals call?

I have no problem with mods closing a thread after its been done to death or restarted for umpteenth time - thats an appropriate action that spares the forum a great deal of angst.

My experience on another forum is, a lot of people don't use the report button. Presumably either because they don't know it's there, don't think anything will be done or don't want to be seen as a snitch. I'm sure there are other reasons too.

Our feeling is, there is no need to be abusive under any circumstances. You have to remember, we are a lot older than some users on here and, whilst it may be water off a duck's back to you or I, it could be extremely upsetting and intimidating to someone much younger. We need to protect them as much as possible, in my opinion.

All of this sounds super. Maybe it will replace the days when you have banned people for 1 off comments - yes I was one of them under a different name and then not bother to tell them they are banned. Oh sorry, yes I was told by PM that I was banned - but that was suspended before I could read it ??!?

I them sent e-mail after e-mail to ask why as it appeared very harsh....no reply....ever...!

I then approached TomF on another City forum....he was going to look into it about 6 weeks-2months ago....still no reply...still banned.

If you are going to make rules thats fine, but follow them through properly and fairly. Otherwise it makes it a bit of a mockery.

If you'd like to PM me the details of your ban, I will look into it.

[Nibor]

Whilst I've agreed with regard to thread deletions, I'm afraid I disagree regarding warnings/suspensions.

I believe that any disciplinary measures taken should be a private affair between the moderating team and the poster concerned. I believe there is little to be gained by "publicly hanging" anyone as this is more likely to incite them upon their return rather than adopt the respectful attitude we are trying to promote.

I'm not suggesting a public hanging, just a simple "so and so warned for abuse" on a locked thread so that when people claim they're being individually picked on everyone else can see it's rubbish. It might also be a deterrent. I think they used to do this on TFF and it seemed to work from the point of view of an occasional lurker.

I understand your point of view though and like I said, don't make too much work for yourselves.

[RedM]

On the whole I think in the past this forum has moderated itself pretty well. It's only lately that it has decended into a level where it is no longer enjoyable to read or post for many users.

Football is an emotional sport and I wouldn't want the forum not to be part of the highs and lows with the joys and despair it brings. But surely we all want the same thing and although we aren't going to agree with everyone on here I do respect their right to have an opinion and their say. But that said I don't think they then should be subjected to abuse or bullying, and on occasions physically threatened for stating those views.

As for writing something and instantly regretting it, I think people can edit a post up to half an hour after writing it still (someone can correct me if I'm wrong).

We always try to be as fair as possible, but sometimes one persons idiot is another's hero. We are only human too!!!

[edson]

I'm removing existing warnings as I see them, but if I've missed anyone and you'd like them removed, please post in the thread on the link below and we'll get rid of them:

Warnings Thread

This way, everyone starts with a clean slate, which is only fair.

Thanks.

[Red to the world]

My concerns for this forum however right or wrong is when someones opinion is posted it is always (of late)

replied first by an insult like: you idiot!! or something similar then they get the opposed opinion in but by then the focus goes on the insult instead of the topic and all hell breaks loose and it becomes a battle of posters in every topic

from then on because all they want to do is get one over on the person who abused them no matter if they

agree or not and i have seen inconsistent views expressed because of this and people will disagree with

that posters views no matter what, just for the sake of it.

Why don't people just counter the opinion they don't agree with with reasoned words, ,

people need to remember that all walks of life post on this forum and sometimes young kids who want to join in

and are unsure how to and their postings (when they do post) will not be as clued in as everyone else so the last thing you need is (as a new poster) is to get called an idiot for your opinion (right or wrong) by mr i've been on otib for 10 years,

it puts people off posting, i'm not saying cut all humour and banter but just a little bit more respect to others is needed,

we have all been guilty of the above at some point but just of late it is far to consistent and ok i know it is never helped when things do not go to plan on the football pitch..

At the time of posting this there are 197 guests, 77 members, on this forum now guests are those just reading the forum

and not signed in or maybe not have a username to post and at this time it outweighs the members signed in to post,

now how do we get that 197 potential posting members to sign up if all they think is that they could be shot down in flames

on the first post, many will not sign up due to that very fact.

HAPPY CHRISTMAS..

I agree with your new rules and all that you say.

Just a small point though - you will never know how many guests vis a vis members are using the board. I quite commonly read the board for quite a time without logging in - so the stats show me as a guest.

I only bother to log in when I wish to post !

[NickJ]

Our feeling is, there is no need to be abusive under any circumstances.

Most obviously those rules go out the window when replying to the sags that come on here, right?

[Rob k]

Also could we have a naughty boy league table? You could get say 3pts for a yellow and when your 2 months of being good are up you lose 2 pts, whoever is on the most points on december 31st wins a prize, maybe one of the players could donate a shirt or something????

[gaz897]

Is it still ok to slate Lee Johnson though?