We Aren't Scoring Goals And Its Getting Boring

[NickJ]

A point thrown up by a lad on ziderheads:

Since Johnson's been here, he's tried over 40 different strikers up front for us. Some of which (Stewart, Jevons, Trundle, Maynard etc) were used to being 20+ goal a season men before joining us.

Now that is a very interesting point.

In fairness, Jevons, Trundle and Maynard were all prolific scorers at a lower level and, having been asked to step up a league, maybe they just arent up to it.

But you would think at least one of them would have been, otherwise you have to question either (a) GJ's ability to sign a decent striker and/or (b) the formation and/or personnel of the remainder of the team in terms of creating chances.

Surely Maynard doesnt go from being a 2 goals in every 3 games striker in one division to being virtually anonymous for much of his time in a division above. Or Trundle going from 20 spectacular goals for Swansea for a few consecutive seasons to a goal every 5 or 6 for us.

Is GJ's judgment so bad that he can spend £3.5 million on 2 strikers that rarely look like scoring? I don't think so.

Add in to the equation Stern John, who for the past few seasons has averaged not far short of a goal every other game at this standard or above but hasnt looked like scoring since his first game for us, and even Dele who isnt as prolific with us as he has been with Coventry and Birmingham, and a pattern emerges.

GJ has based his time with us on a rock solid defence, and to be fair has in my opinion got that bit spot on, albeit with some distribution issues.

So you begin to look at our midfield and a post I put on otib a few weeks back starts to make sense. Namely, that McIndoe (ignoring attitude deficiencies this season) is a workhorse but fails to get in enough telling crosses, Sproule is too inconsistent, Williams is an also ran at this level, and Johnson, supposedly the creative force of the Elliott/Johnson central axis, just doesnt cut it.

And so then you wonder - not for the first time - what the eff was wrong with Carle and why it is deemed so essential that Noble should add defensive superiority to his creative talents.

And following on from that, if GJ thought neither Carle or Noble up to the central midfield job, who he thinks provides our strikers with the service that strikers need.

At the beginning of the season, with Elliott injured and Johnson refusing to even consider Noble, I made a comment on here that Skuse and Artus could be our next best central midfield pairing, given a few games together. I was laughed out of court for that by some. However, I get the impression that we may have seen the best of Elliott, whereas I feel Skuse, given confidence, could step up to the mark, as Saturday's performance showed. I havent seen Frankie play for a while, but he is a swashbuckling, albeit injury-prone sort of midfield player of the type we need, and if he isnt good enough or fit enough - which I sincerely hope he is - someone of that style wouldnt go amiss.

From current personnel I'd like to see a central midfield combination of Elliott/Skuse together with Artus/Noble, and if the latter 2 arent deemed good enough find someone who is of that ilk

Oh, and a genuine, speedy winger capable of consistently getting quality crosses into the box. Murray perhaps? Or can Sproule be coaxed into consistency? And if not, surely we have a young lad in the ressies worth throwing in for a try?

In my view that type of midfield will make for more dynamism, more chances created, more goals, and, if we are lucky, more points.

But at the very least it would be a bit more exciting than the style of play thus far this season, which to be frank has on many occassions just been boring and predictable.

[Robbored]

Its fairly obvious when you think about it that not all the strikers signed by Johnson have been crap and that the reason they all have failed to score regularly is down to the style of play that Johnson adopts. The problem was plain to see last season and has remained so this season. As pointed out many of Johnson's strikers have good scoring records before they signed for City but have falied to hit the target consistently enough since.

I've said many times that there simply hasn't been enough variation and creativety from midfield. One dimensional tactics that are simple to defend against have led to a dearth of chances for the strikers - no wonder they don't score many.

City desperately need to vary the way they play around the opposition box and we saw some attempts to do that on Saturday and although the one/two's and through' balls didn't come off it was good to see. No-one can expect a different style to click right away. City should continue to play like that and eventually it'll start to pay off. Keep the crosses coming but not everytime and not from deep, poor angle positions.

There's an obvious arguement that if you plan to play pass and move, slick football around the opposition box that you need strikers that can anticipate the right moves plus you need players capable of seeing a pass and making it. In other words inventive and creative players like Noble and Trundle both of whom have great vision and quick feet.

If it means playing 5 across midfield to accomodate one or both or them then so be it but somehow I don't see that happening.

[St. Aldhelms Red]

Spot on Nick. I think the majority of fans think the same aswell, which begs the question, are we all wrong? If LJ is GJs prefered "creative midfielder", then surely, when he is injured, you replace him with your next best "creative midfielder".To me that means Noble or Williams. Both these players have been used out wide, with no success, so why aren,t we playing them in their natural positions, which is obviously central midfield. We are not exactly flush with cash at the moment, so cant afford to bring players in, play them out of position, then drop them when they havent been given a chance in their prefered role.

Going back to your original point, we had this discussion on saturday, all the strikers have scored goals throughout their careers.It cannot surely be coincedence that they all suddenly stop scoring as soon as they play for us. For the record, i thought Skuse had a great game saturday and should be pushing Marv for his place, but we need someone along side one of them to create something for our strikers. I think we have the personel at the club, but, for some reason GJ doesnt think so. Perhaps hes right and we are just" championship managers" who know **** all, but i think there are a lot of us!

[Redhyde]

I don't see the strikers not scoring as a problem. GJ clearly wants something different to goals from his strikers which makes the aquisition of Maynard and the chase of Meteb very interesting/odd. The other players like Tyson and Mifsud offered a much different style and we were clamouring for a striker with genuine pace all last season.

On the midfield it's again odd that Skuse came in because we played 4-4-2. GJ thinks LJ is defensively as good if not better than Skuse? That would be odd again for me. Basically with the current personel we should play 5 as individually IMO they're not good enough as a four, or we should change the personel.

GJ has changed our system dramatically and the players haven't coped with it. Either Gj has to change it back or he has to get new players in. He's not changed it back so i await January with great interest.

[NickJ]

I don't see the strikers not scoring as a problem. GJ clearly wants something different to goals from his strikers

An interesting, albeit novel, perspective.

[Guest]

It's my understanding that Artus just hasn't got the physical attributes to step up to plate. It's a sad story but it maybe that he just doesn't make it at this level because he's not showing any signs of getting any stronger. Remember how GJ said he was not fair away from the squad... that was nearly 18 months ago now.

[Nibor]

Skuse had a great game on Saturday, not disputing that, however the decision to pick him in the first place was bloody baffling. I'm sure somebody will come along and point out that since he had a good game the boss must have been right and that we don't know what players are like in training but the fact is that as a team we played mediocre (which was an improvement don't get me wrong) and got a crap result.

If GJ felt that we needed someone with more of a defensive game to play there, then how was LJ (who makes the least defensive contribution out of any of our midfielders) getting picked?

If the rationale was that starting Sproule necessitated a more defensive central pair, then why was that suddenly necessary after all the games we've started with him and LJ in the side? And against a team missing their two best central midfielders...

If it's ok to have one more defensive central midfielder and one playmaker, then why wasn't Noble, who is far more creative, picked when LJ was injured and given a go in his best position?

I don't subscribe to the nepotism theory at all but GJ really doesn't do himself any favours with choices like that. It was a perfect opportunity to give Noble a go in the middle and see if he could supply the sort of service we've been lacking all season - incisive through balls and playing to feet. If he'd been crap then that would have gone some way to shutting people up but instead Noble is benched in favour of a winger who has contributed next to nothing this season and doesn't look likely to, a more defensive player is brought in for the centre, we fail to supply much decent service and we fail to score at home against a fairly average side with our strikers not having a decent chance between them.

I think the point NickJ makes about strikers is right and has been staring us in the face for a long time. Chipped balls to Dele's head aren't what the rest of the strikers need for service in order to be a threat and to be quite frank that's the majority of what LJ provides going forward. Wild crosses aren't much use either, to produce better crosses we need wingers to get behind fullbacks and if they can't do that with a trick (and they can't) then they need to be played in there and that doesn't happen much either. It's really not surprising that we aren't getting enough goals from the front line.

To be honest even though I want to believe they're for the right reasons I'm finding it harder and harder to see the reasons behind GJ's selections. It's not like results are supporting them either.

[St. Aldhelms Red]

I don't see the strikers not scoring as a problem. GJ clearly wants something different to goals from his strikers which makes the aquisition of Maynard and the chase of Meteb very interesting/odd. The other players like Tyson and Mifsud offered a much different style and we were clamouring for a striker with genuine pace all last season.

On the midfield it's again odd that Skuse came in because we played 4-4-2. GJ thinks LJ is defensively as good if not better than Skuse? That would be odd again for me. Basically with the current personel we should play 5 as individually IMO they're not good enough as a four, or we should change the personel.

GJ has changed our system dramatically and the players haven't coped with it. Either Gj has to change it back or he has to get new players in. He's not changed it back so i await January with great interest.

The strikers not scoring may not be a problem if the rest of the team were, but they are not. We have a midfield that neither creates or scores goals.

[Redhyde]

An interesting, albeit novel, perspective.

I just don't get the need for the strikers to score, as long as someone does. If the striker is in the channals or has his back to goal the entire time and the midfielders outscore him he's done his job for the team hasn't he? It was weird last season when we were near top with people crying about not haaving a 20+ striker or whatever. We might have done had we played in a way that allowed it. GJ's system doesn't. We went up without a striker hitting 15, we nearlly did the same with our top scorer in single figures, it doesn't matter to me.

Which is why the purchase of an out and out goal scorer was out of character for GJ. Maybe that was a mistake to get away from his own comfort zone.

[Redhyde]

The strikers not scoring may not be a problem if the rest of the team were, but they are not. We have a midfield that neither creates or scores goals.

Well yeah. This midfield in this system does neither. This midfield in another system was much better.

[St. Aldhelms Red]

I just don't get the need for the strikers to score, as long as someone does. If the striker is in the channals or has his back to goal the entire time and the midfielders outscore him he's done his job for the team hasn't he? It was weird last season when we were near top with people crying about not haaving a 20+ striker or whatever. We might have done had we played in a way that allowed it. GJ's system doesn't. We went up without a striker hitting 15, we nearlly did the same with our top scorer in single figures, it doesn't matter to me.

Which is why the purchase of an out and out goal scorer was out of character for GJ. Maybe that was a mistake to get away from his own comfort zone.

I agree if your talking about players like Adebola, who is there to bring other players into the game and chip in when he can. But why spend money on strikers if your going to play a system that doesnt suit them?

[dezgimed]

Could be wrong but didnt Yeovil under GJ score truck loads of goals?

Over 100 in their promotion season?

Just checked, 90 in the League, GD +25.

[Redhyde]

I agree if your talking about players like Adebola, who is there to bring other players into the game and chip in when he can. But why spend money on strikers if your going to play a system that doesnt suit them?

Precisely. So we're not. We're playing the traditional 4-4-2 where strikers should be able to score goals. But GJ thought that the 4 compared to the 5 in midfield would work. It hasn't IMO.

So we keep plugging away with our new strikers and sign midfielders or we revert back to what worked. Or we sink

[Rowley Birkin]

I think Gary needs to seek some advice from a Wenger , Redknapp or Sir Alex, or someone who can help him overcome this obvious flaw to his management style, and who's opinion he would cherish.

There's no shame in picking the brains of these type of guys, as I'm sure they would help out a young British manager who just needs some help and friendly advice, as if G.J. could overcome the goal drought his teams seem to have, everyone gains.

I think we all love his footballing ethics, and team building regarding signings, and the way he conducts himself most of the time, but he just needs to address the problem which has been ongoing for three seasons now, even in our promotion year, we struggled to score goals.

Wasn't Scott the last player to score over 20 goals in a season for us ?

All good sides are based on strong foundations, but it's time to mend the roof surely.

Also if Stern John is busting a gut to get a contract with us, I'd hate to see him when he wasn't trying !

[St. Aldhelms Red]

Precisely. So we're not. We're playing the traditional 4-4-2 where strikers should be able to score goals. But GJ thought that the 4 compared to the 5 in midfield would work. It hasn't IMO.

So we keep plugging away with our new strikers and sign midfielders or we revert back to what worked. Or we sink

Or we play the midfielders that we already have at the club, who can create something for our strikers, thus saving us some money.

[Geoff65]

Skuse had a great game on Saturday, not disputing that, however the decision to pick him in the first place was bloody baffling. I'm sure somebody will come along and point out that since he had a good game the boss must have been right and that we don't know what players are like in training but the fact is that as a team we played mediocre (which was an improvement don't get me wrong) and got a crap result.

My view of what the thinking behind Skuse in front of Williams and Noble to replace LJ is that GJ watched the Swansea v Cardiff match and saw how well their midfield plays and having two ball winning midfielders who are prepared to run around and defend as well as attack was preferable to Williams or Noble who both imo lack the tracking back and defensive duties that Elliott and Skuse brings to the team. I also think that LJ tracks back more than Williams and Noble and why he gets the nod over the other two attacking central midfielders - however I also feel that the midfield as a whole lack the physical statue and strength against most teams in this league and hence why we need 5 in midfield when most teams are quite capable with 4.

So to answer your question why Skuse and Elliott? - the reason being the opponents, had we played against Doncaster, Southampton or Forest then Williams or Noble could quite easily have been the replacement for LJ.

[sodburyred]

Precisely. So we're not. We're playing the traditional 4-4-2 where strikers should be able to score goals. But GJ thought that the 4 compared to the 5 in midfield would work. It hasn't IMO.

So we keep plugging away with our new strikers and sign midfielders or we revert back to what worked. Or we sink

We tried the 5 man midfield! We just about beat a very poor southampton side who were unlucky not to score! And it was embarrising using it against Forest who were just as poor but dealt with it easily! I would be annoyed if we reverted back to 4-5-1! It was ok last year when we were the underdogs and playing with no fear but this year its different! Even last year people were calling for 2 upfront but we didnt have the quality now we have loads of able enough strikers! If anything we should be adding strikers to our starting line up not taking them away!

Something like:

*******Basso

Wilson Carey Fontaine Mcallister

**Williams Elliot Mcindoe

***John Bola Maynard

GK, Sproule, Wilson,Trundle, akinde

[Nibor]

My view of what the thinking behind Skuse in front of Williams and Noble to replace LJ is that GJ watched the Swansea v Cardiff match and saw how well their midfield plays and having two ball winning midfielders who are prepared to run around and defend as well as attack was preferable to Williams or Noble who both imo lack the tracking back and defensive duties that Elliott and Skuse brings to the team.

He'd surely have noted that Britton, the main creative force for Swansea, was suspended for our game.

I also think that LJ tracks back more than Williams and Noble and why he gets the nod over the other two attacking central midfielders - however I also feel that the midfield as a whole lack the physical statue and strength against most teams in this league and hence why we need 5 in midfield when most teams are quite capable with 4.

I'd dispute that. LJ rarely gets back in time to defend even when it's him who's lost the ball and he doesn't ever mark. Yes he makes the odd challenge but actually I think both Noble and Williams have far more defensive value as they're less prone to errors in possession and retain the ball far better.

So to answer your question why Skuse and Elliott? - the reason being the opponents, had we played against Doncaster, Southampton or Forest then Williams or Noble could quite easily have been the replacement for LJ.

My counter argument would be that at home against a middle of the road side we should be looking to impose ourselves on them not react to them. If that's why he made the selections he did then I think it was the wrong call. We effectively sacrificed any attacking threat to nullify a team that didn't seem to carry much threat themselves. I think a better option would have been 4411 with Noble or Trundle withdrawn from the striker to at least give us some passing options if we were really that worried about Swansea.

I find it very hard to believe that LJ would have been dropped for Skuse had he been fit.

[bully]

It's my understanding that Artus just hasn't got the physical attributes to step up to plate. It's a sad story but it maybe that he just doesn't make it at this level because he's not showing any signs of getting any stronger. Remember how GJ said he was not fair away from the squad... that was nearly 18 months ago now.

You ever seen Frankie? - if the question mark is about fitness or ability then ok, but he's two LJ's in terms of physique .

[dezgimed]

You ever seen Frankie? - if the question mark is about fitness or ability then ok, but he's two LJ's in terms of physique .

How old is the lad?

If he cant put on 1-3 stones on muscle in 18months I'd question what the hell our fitness coaches are doing!

[Nibor]

How old is the lad?

If he cant put on 1-3 stones on muscle in 18months I'd question what the hell our fitness coaches are doing!

It can actually be quite hard to bulk up on muscle mass if you're doing a lot of anaerobic fitness as well which footballers have to do.

[dezgimed]

It can actually be quite hard to bulk up on muscle mass if you're doing a lot of anaerobic fitness as well which footballers have to do.

Aye is hard no doubt, but not impossible.

If he's a string bean (assuming) then some hypertrophy training will have some affect.

[cheshire_red]

He got dropped by Exeter I think shortly into a long loan period last season (Conference), got a few decent reports fror a sub appearance at Brentford earlier this season where he got injured.

[NickJ]

It's my understanding that Artus just hasn't got the physical attributes to step up to plate. It's a sad story but it maybe that he just doesn't make it at this level because he's not showing any signs of getting any stronger. Remember how GJ said he was not fair away from the squad... that was nearly 18 months ago now.

Must admit I'm a tad biased having known him since he was a young lad however I'm not so sure its lack of physical strength, possibly more so that he seems to get injured so often. Having spoken to a couple of the scouts a couple of years ago, I know he was very highly rated.

Last time I saw him play was a couple of times for the reserves last season, when he wasn't in the slightest bit out-muscled, in fact looked quite dominant. From those performances I would like to think he would have got his chance had we not been doing so well at the time.

He's got that rare combination of skill and flair, but at the same time likes a tackle. If he's fit and good enough, it's certainly a different dimension to our other midfield players.

Don't forget to say thanks next time I see you Frankie.

[Redhyde]

We tried the 5 man midfield! We just about beat a very poor southampton side

Yeah we did!

[DavidNoble]

3-5-2???????

..........BASSO..........

........CAREY......BOOM......FONTS........

.............SKUSE......MARV......

IVAN...NOBLE.........MCINDOE

..........MAYNARD/TRUNDS.....STERN/DELE/AKINDE

We're hopeless at full-back anyway so why not just put three at the back and pack the mid-field but keep the two men up front.

If we don't give them service then then we should just give up now.

[BCFC_Dan]

I think we try to overcomplicate things. We don't have anybody in the squad capable of picking up the ball and driving play forward. Lee Johnson can't do it, David Noble can't do it and, from what I've seen so far, Gavin Williams can't do it. Consequently we seem to end up forever trying to pass our way through teams, which sometimes works against naive teams like Doncaster, but when our lads are closed down and stopped they run out of ideas and start going long.

In my opinion then we need to find a central midfield player who is strong and can hold onto the ball and drive it forward. I don't believe we have one at the club currently. Now if I just knew where we could find one....

[sunningdalered]

In fairness, we have started the last few home games quite brightly - with the midfield getting forward in support of the forward/s - and some half-decent, short, precise passing - but we don't seem able to sustain it for more than about 10-15 mins. Once we have huffed and puffed a bit - and failed to register, the opposition then get settled and our midfield retreats as they come more and more into the game.

Two things spring to mind - why cant we sustain the forward momentum for longer? does the fact that we collapse like a cheap tent at the first sign of pressure upon the midfield actually contribute to the problem, by inviting the opposition on to us? surely it cant be a fitness problem this far into the season?

The second thing is whats happened to the GJ rallying call of old about coming out all guns blazing and establishing an early lead? He got quite a bit of success from that approach in the past, and against teams like watford, forest, swansea, all of whom have been distinctly average, maybe really getting at them, and hitting them early would stop them settling?

This pattern of the team coming out looking up for it and moving the ball about nicely, before losing confidence and becoming devoid of ideas is really beginning to grind me off!! I'm beginning to wish we went out there with the attitude that basically we have to score more than the opposition, whether its 2-1, 3-2, 4-3 or 5-4. I really don't care how many we let in at the back if we commit to having a proper go at the other end. Control + pride = very boring footabll.

[bcfcmike]

Spot on Nick. I think the majority of fans think the same aswell, which begs the question, are we all wrong? If LJ is GJs [prefered "creative midfielder", then surely, when he is injured, you replace him with your next best "creative midfielder".To me that means Noble or Williams. Both these players have been used out wide, with no success, so why aren,t we playing them in their natural positions, which is obviously central midfield. We are not exactly flush with cash at the moment, so cant afford to bring players in, play them out of position, then drop them when they havent been given a chance in their prefered role.

Going back to your original point, we had this discussion on saturday, all the strikers have scored goals throughout their careers.It cannot surely be coincedence that they all suddenly stop scoring as soon as they play for us. For the record, i thought Skuse had a great game saturday and should be pushing Marv for his place, but we need someone along side one of them to create something for our strikers. I think we have the personel at the club, but, for some reason GJ doesnt think so. Perhaps hes right and we are just" championship managers" who know **** all, but i think there are a lot of us!

Thats where alot of our probs lie IMO.....creative midfielder, don't make me laugh

[Redhyde]

Thats where alot of our probs lie IMO.....creative midfielder, don't make me laugh

Joint 3rd last year in his position. But lets ignore that... This year people have more of a point.

So why isn't he producing what he did last season? Why isn't the team?