Nibor Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Joint 3rd last year in his position. But lets ignore that... This year people have more of a point. So why isn't he producing what he did last season? Why isn't the team? How do you mean joint third? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhyde Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 How do you mean joint third? "Only 6 midfielders had more championship assists than LJ did last year. Liam Lawrence (winger), Wade Elliott (winger), Michael McIndoe (Winger) Ben Watson (Central) Johnnie Jackson (Central) Peter Halmosi (Winger) Paul Parry, Joe Ledley, Jay Tabb had the same amount. So LJ was the joint third most assisting central midfielder of the year. " Assists = creative for me. I don't know of another tangible measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted December 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 "Only 6 midfielders had more championship assists than LJ did last year. Liam Lawrence (winger), Wade Elliott (winger), Michael McIndoe (Winger) Ben Watson (Central) Johnnie Jackson (Central) Peter Halmosi (Winger) Paul Parry, Joe Ledley, Jay Tabb had the same amount. So LJ was the joint third most assisting central midfielder of the year. " Assists = creative for me. I don't know of another tangible measure. Its not much of a statistic. 41 starts, more than the majority of midfielders at any club. 7 assists - when you take most of the free kicks and corners, the law of averages says a goal will result now and then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 "Only 6 midfielders had more championship assists than LJ did last year. Liam Lawrence (winger), Wade Elliott (winger), Michael McIndoe (Winger) Ben Watson (Central) Johnnie Jackson (Central) Peter Halmosi (Winger) Paul Parry, Joe Ledley, Jay Tabb had the same amount. So LJ was the joint third most assisting central midfielder of the year. " Assists = creative for me. I don't know of another tangible measure. I'd say assists from open play is a more useful measure myself. I don't think we'd get any less goals from set pieces with McIndoe or Williams taking them but I think we'd get more assists from midfield in open play with Noble or another player who can play through balls in there. The reason LJ is not doing as well this season is because we're not overloading the midfield to give him the extra time and cover for him defensively. This is being done because GJ rightly wants two up front so we make some headway on the very poor goals scored record we had last season. Unfortunately two up isn't paying off because a four man midfield with LJ in can't compete and the service it provides is of the wrong sort for our strikers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 I think Gary needs to seek some advice from a Wenger , Redknapp or Sir Alex, or someone who can help him overcome this obvious flaw to his management style, and who's opinion he would cherish. I watched the Everton versus Aston Villa Premier League game on the BBC on Sunday night - what a great traditional English game of football that was. Stunning to watch with crunching - but fair - tackles flying in, lots of running and some brilliant goals. If we could play like David Moyes' Everton or Martin O'Neill's Villa we'd storm this division. I felt really sorry for David Moyes coming out of a game like that with no points. When it's 0-0 as per the Swansea game in the last 5 minutes and you see both McIndoe and Williams appear to waste possession by both of them - literally - passing their shots straight into the arms of the Swansea keeper you just know they're not up to much. We've only got one midfielder that I really rate and that's Marvin Elliott and buying Andrew Surman from Southampton would be a good start in improving our midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhyde Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Its not much of a statistic. 41 starts, more than the majority of midfielders at any club. 7 assists - when you take most of the free kicks and corners, the law of averages says a goal will result now and then. Law of averages? Geez. Guess that doesn't apply to any other creative midfielder. LJ uses the law of averages by trying to create chances constantly. Good thing someone like Ben Watson doesn't start every game, take any set plays or penalties and he's 10x better. I'd say assists from open play is a more useful measure myself. Me too, however having not watched every single championsip goal I don't have them. What's LJ's creativity like from last year then according to that? I don't think we'd get any less goals from set pieces with McIndoe or Williams taking them but I think we'd get more assists from midfield in open play with Noble or another player who can play through balls in there. The reason LJ is not doing as well this season is because we're not overloading the midfield to give him the extra time and cover for him defensively. This is being done because GJ rightly wants two up front so we make some headway on the very poor goals scored record we had last season. Unfortunately two up isn't paying off because a four man midfield with LJ in can't compete and the service it provides is of the wrong sort for our strikers. Why is having more strikers on the pitch going to lead to more goals? 26 scored 24 conceeded last year at this point. 23 scored 25 conceeded this year. All changing from 1 to 2 strikers has done is shift the goals to up front away from midfield. It's the overall quality of players that's the issue not the formation when it comes to goal scoring. The teams with the better players played in an attacking system score the most goals. We neither play attacking football nor have the better players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted December 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Law of averages? Geez. Guess that doesn't apply to any other creative midfielder. LJ uses the law of averages by trying to create chances constantly. Good thing someone like Ben Watson doesn't start every game, take any set plays or penalties and he's 10x better. Havent got a clue what you mean mate. What I'm saying, firstly, is that if you play more games than most other players - as LJ did - you would expect to be towards the top of the table in everything - assists, goals, shots, tackles, anything you like. So being near the top of the assists table proves nothing in LJ's case. I'm then saying, secondly, that its only 7 anyway, and most of those probably came from dead balls, which most players could take competently, but LJ mostly does because presumably his size means he isnt going to be very useful attacking the goal in the area or staying back and defending should there be a counter attack. If I played 41 games for City in a season and was allowed to take most of the free kicks and corners, I'm fairly confident I'd have 7 assists to my name as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casey bcfc 4 life Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 thinking about it iv noticed that for the last two seasons both our top scorers have been sold Player FL1 CUPS TOTAL Phil Jevons 11 6 17 Player FLC CUPS TOTAL Darren Byfield 8 0 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Havent got a clue what you mean mate. What I'm saying, firstly, is that if you play more games than most other players - as LJ did - you would expect to be towards the top of the table in everything - assists, goals, shots, tackles, anything you like. So being near the top of the assists table proves nothing in LJ's case. I'm then saying, secondly, that its only 7 anyway, and most of those probably came from dead balls, which most players could take competently, but LJ mostly does because presumably his size means he isnt going to be very useful attacking the goal in the area or staying back and defending should there be a counter attack. If I played 41 games for City in a season and was allowed to take most of the free kicks and corners, I'm fairly confident I'd have 7 assists to my name as well. You write like an accountant, of course you're right. Marvin Elliott had a good game against Swansea, Skuse is improving, McIndoe looks nowhere near the form he was showing last season. Gary Johnson definately needs to strengthen that midfield in January to supplement Marvin Elliott's ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhyde Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Havent got a clue what you mean mate. Hmm What I'm saying, firstly, is that if you play more games than most other players - as LJ did - you would expect to be towards the top of the table in everything - assists, goals, shots, tackles, anything you like. So you compare with players playing a similar amount of games. So being near the top of the assists table proves nothing in LJ's case. It proves he's near the top of the assists chart. I'm then saying, secondly, that its only 7 anyway, and most of those probably came from dead balls, which most players could take competently, but LJ mostly does because presumably his size means he isnt going to be very useful attacking the goal in the area or staying back and defending should there be a counter attack. The top assists by a player in the league was 11. Hey it's only 11. We're dealing with small numbers, saying it's only 7 is a silly comment when ONLY 2 players in his position did more. If I played 41 games for City in a season and was allowed to take most of the free kicks and corners, I'm fairly confident I'd have 7 assists to my name as well. Of course you would. You'd also be able to play central midfield for 41 games a season and we'd finish 4th in the championship. Fair play if you don't want to be a footballer or earn more in your current job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Gary Johnson definately needs to strengthen that midfield in January to supplement Marvin Elliott's ability. Wow! Another thread thats gone a full circle with lots of surperflous (sp?) bits in between. I would add that not only does Johnson need to strengthen the midfield he also needs to change the style in which City play.Getting in a couple of new midfielders in but using the same tactics and style would achieve very little. Any average player can lob balls into the box from anywhere. Not much skill needed with that tactic. Just to liven things up - does anyone agree that because Johnson gets the wingers to tuck a lot that that then conjests the midfield leaving very little outlet other than the ball into the box when City win possesion? And....does anyone agree that City have a perfectly good range of midfielders but they are simply not given licence to play to their strengths? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Wow! Another thread thats gone a full circle with lots of surperflous (sp?) bits in between. I would add that not only does Johnson need to strengthen the midfield he also needs to change the style in which City play.Getting in a couple of new midfielders in but using the same tactics and style would achieve very little. Any average player can lob balls into the box from anywhere. Not much skill needed with that tactic. Just to liven things up - does anyone agree that because Johnson gets the wingers to tuck a lot that that then conjests the midfield leaving very little outlet other than the ball into the box when City win possesion? And....does anyone agree that City have a perfectly good range of midfielders but they are simply not given licence to play to their strengths? Yes, I'd agree with that. I don't really understand this 'tucking in' thing, as it should only apply to phases of play when we aren't in possession. There are only really two parts to a game of football: 1. When you're in possession. 2. When the opposition are in possession. Just because the wide players are asked to tuck in when the opposition has the ball, I can't see why they don't pull wide when we get the ball, to spread the play and give the passer more options. If you're a full back and the winger pulls wide, you have two options - You either leave him there and zonally mark the channel, leaving the man free. Or you go with the man leaving a channel for the ball. Personally, I think this would suit Sproule very well, as he prefers the ball to feet from a standing position, but has the acceleration to run onto a ball played through the channel (end product not withstanding). It also gives the defender a dilemma and makes him think, which has to be a good thing. Tucking in as a wide man is a great idea when the opposition have the ball as it not only squeezes play, but it also gives you room to spin into when your team regains possession. Obviously it's not quite as straightforward as that, because the opposition are trying to do the same thing (and may be better at it), but you have to have movement and width in possession of the ball or the options are just too limited and predictable. I'd also like to see our wide players attacking the far post more, as Murray used to do. The ball in from McIndoe against Swansea was a classic example. He knocked a dangerous ball in and John, to my mind, should have been attacking the front post with Sproule coming in at the far side. As it was, the less pacy John attacked the far post, didn't have the pace to get there and the chance was gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Wow! Another thread thats gone a full circle with lots of surperflous (sp?) bits in between. I would add that not only does Johnson need to strengthen the midfield he also needs to change the style in which City play.Getting in a couple of new midfielders in but using the same tactics and style would achieve very little. Any average player can lob balls into the box from anywhere. Not much skill needed with that tactic. OK Robbored, make a comment on my earlier post in this thread as below that's not quite so 'superfluous'..... I watched the Everton versus Aston Villa Premier League game on the BBC on Sunday night - what a great traditional English game of football that was. Stunning to watch with crunching - but fair - tackles flying in, lots of running and some brilliant goals. If we could play like David Moyes' Everton or Martin O'Neill's Villa we'd storm this division. I felt really sorry for David Moyes coming out of a game like that with no points. When it's 0-0 as per the Swansea game in the last 5 minutes and you see both McIndoe and Williams appear to waste possession by both of them - literally - passing their shots straight into the arms of the Swansea keeper you just know they're not up to much. We've only got one midfielder that I really rate and that's Marvin Elliott and buying Andrew Surman from Southampton would be a good start in improving our midfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 OK Robbored, make a comment on my earlier post in this thread as below that's not quite so 'superfluous'..... I watched the Everton versus Aston Villa Premier League game on the BBC on Sunday night - what a great traditional English game of football that was. Stunning to watch with crunching - but fair - tackles flying in, lots of running and some brilliant goals. If we could play like David Moyes' Everton or Martin O'Neill's Villa we'd storm this division. I felt really sorry for David Moyes coming out of a game like that with no points. When it's 0-0 as per the Swansea game in the last 5 minutes and you see both McIndoe and Williams appear to waste possession by both of them - literally - passing their shots straight into the arms of the Swansea keeper you just know they're not up to much. We've only got one midfielder that I really rate and that's Marvin Elliott and buying Andrew Surman from Southampton would be a good start in improving our midfield. I read this post and didn't reply because of the obvious flaw in your comparison of Premier League and Championship players.There is bound to be a huge difference in their respective abilities. If McIndoe and Williams were top drawer players they'd be in the PL. As for Elliot - I agree. As for Surman, thats open to debate as I can't see the point of another midfielder if City use the same predicatble tactics. Its the style thats wrong not necessarily the players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted December 9, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 OK Robbored, make a comment on my earlier post in this thread as below that's not quite so 'superfluous'..... I watched the Everton versus Aston Villa Premier League game on the BBC on Sunday night - what a great traditional English game of football that was. Stunning to watch with crunching - but fair - tackles flying in, lots of running and some brilliant goals. If we could play like David Moyes' Everton or Martin O'Neill's Villa we'd storm this division. I felt really sorry for David Moyes coming out of a game like that with no points. When it's 0-0 as per the Swansea game in the last 5 minutes and you see both McIndoe and Williams appear to waste possession by both of them - literally - passing their shots straight into the arms of the Swansea keeper you just know they're not up to much. We've only got one midfielder that I really rate and that's Marvin Elliott and buying Andrew Surman from Southampton would be a good start in improving our midfield. Just to liven it up a bit more I think we should buy that lad James from Southampton. We need a right back, it would seem; he's young; techcnically sound; looks good going forward; good attitude; and has a great name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big p Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 I personally think the answer would be to get an ex Premier League striker on board as a coach(e.g Andy Cole).Then he would be able to telling the strikers what they are doing wrong.Or tell the manager why his team are not producing the chances.But something tells me that GJ wouldnt want a ex Premier League striker sniffing around.even if its for the good of team.We would probably end up with an ex yeovil town striker from the conferance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted December 9, 2008 Admin Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Abusive comment removed. Thanks to the user who reported it, it's appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezgimed Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 I personally think the answer would be to get an ex Premier League striker on board as a coach(e.g Andy Cole).Then he would be able to telling the strikers what they are doing wrong.Or tell the manager why his team are not producing the chances.But something tells me that GJ wouldnt want a ex Premier League striker sniffing around.even if its for the good of team.We would probably end up with an ex yeovil town striker from the conferance. Nothing wrong with our strikers, Trundle scored over 80 goals in 4 seasons, I doubt he needs telling how to do it. We just operate as a functional team and that means few chances created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big p Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Nothing wrong with our strikers, Trundle scored over 80 goals in 4 seasons, I doubt he needs telling how to do it. We just operate as a functional team and that means few chances created. We need someone to show our midfield how to provide the chances,lets be honest they aint doing it now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 We need someone to show our midfield how to provide the chances,lets be honest they aint doing it now It all boils down to the style of play. Its up to Johnson to come up with a more creative style - he's the manager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dezgimed Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Under Wilson we used to play with alot of triangles, passing around with ease. Why is that such a hard concept for GJ to adopt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Under Wilson we used to play with alot of triangles, passing around with ease. Why is that such a hard concept for GJ to adopt? Good question. Maybe he doesn't think he has players capable of adopting an Arsenalesque style of play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingswood red Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 I personally think the answer would be to get an ex Premier League striker on board as a coach(e.g Andy Cole).Then he would be able to telling the strikers what they are doing wrong.Or tell the manager why his team are not producing the chances.But something tells me that GJ wouldnt want a ex Premier League striker sniffing around.even if its for the good of team.We would probably end up with an ex yeovil town striker from the conferance. I think an ex-Premier League midfielder might be more productive. Preferably one who can still play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Just to liven it up a bit more I think we should buy that lad James from Southampton. We need a right back, it would seem; he's young; techcnically sound; looks good going forward; good attitude; and has a great name. You mean Lloyd James, the Bristol City fan who still actively follows City when he can? Not a bad idea at all - are you his Dad/Grandad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted December 10, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 You mean Lloyd James, the Bristol City fan who still actively follows City when he can? Not a bad idea at all - are you his Dad/Grandad? What?! Never have I been so insulted, I may have a 20 year old son but no way do I even look that old!! Not a relation - is Llloyd really a City fan? There you are then, we should sign him up pronto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 What?! Never have I been so insulted, I may have a 20 year old son but no way do I even look that old!! So it isn't true that your son's favourite City song is, 'My old man said be a Rovers fan' ? Not a relation - is Llloyd really a City fan? There you are then, we should sign him up pronto. I didn't know he was either but it was mentioned on here a while back, and that he also still goes down the Gate when he can and was even seen amongst the City fans at an away game earlier this season when Southampton didn't have a game. Looks to be a very good player, and with his background the perfect signing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Stand Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 Nothing wrong with our strikers, Trundle scored over 80 goals in 4 seasons, I doubt he needs telling how to do it. We just operate as a functional team and that means few chances created. Trundle's impressive goal record (as Maynard's) is at league 1 level. Same goes for messrs Eastwood & Sharp - scored goals for fun at league 1, struggled a lot at the higher level. Would be interesting to see the last striker to make the step up without a massive reduction in goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 Would be interesting to see the last striker to make the step up without a massive reduction in goals. Shaun Goater did - don't if he was the last though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Stand Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 Shaun Goater did - don't if he was the last though. & what was that, 10 years ago ?? There must be someone more recent.... mustn't there?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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