Trundle And Noble Should Both Leave The Club

[tinman-is-god]

According to Stephen Coombes, writing for FansOnline.net at http://fansonline.net/bristolcity/article.php?id=289 , both Trundle and Noble should be offloaded in January as they simply do not have the consistency to justify their positions within the team/squad.

Read Steve's other thoughts take on the January transfer window in the above link, but what do you make of the contention that we need to sell Trunds and Nobes in order to replace them?

[mightyreds89]

Madness, but I fear the truth...! Noble and Trundle might produce some consistancy should they be given 10-15 games in a row not in and out of the side every other week, 2 most talented players may walk out of the club for me I could think of may more we should be looking at off loading before these 2.

GJ has done a great job but I am starting to have some doubts about him really knowing what his next plan of attack is in taking the club forward or having plan b.

[simon uk]

I would have to agree that they should leave the club, theres no denying they are talented players, but neither offer enough work rate or consistency and for us to improve we need a more effective mix of the 2. I figure we could make 500-750 from selling the 2 of them and if orr goes that might put us up towards the 1m mark, and if that brought us a quality right winger or centre midfielder then we will have improved the squad in my opinion. We have to accept there isnt going to be millions to spend in january, and like we did with carle, if we have to move these guys out to strengthen other positions then so be it.

[Nibor]

The article doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me.

Trundle and Noble aren't getting the chance to show their ability, they are both played infrequently and out of position more often than not and in Trundle's case in a system that is the complete antithesis of his strengths as a footballer. If we pay £1m for a striker with quick feet and tricks who loves running at defenders and then pump balls up to him at chest and head height we've only got ourselves to blame.

Put Noble in the middle of the park (and let him show the consistency he did there when he last had a run at that position) and play Trundle up front with Maynard for four or five games, play the ball on the floor and we'll see the best of all three of them. Saturday's team selection makes it look very unlikely to me that GJ will ever do that sadly.

The author seems to think that it's like Championship manager and you can sell players and then spend the transfer fee. The reality is different I'm afraid. You have to pay the player off unless they request a move. Trundle has 18 months left on a £10k a week contract, Noble 18 or 30 months on a £5.5k a week contract. Any transfer fees we recouped for them would barely make up what it would cost to agree a settlement. We'd effectively be losing two players from the squad for no financial gain to get another in.

Signing Stern John would represent very bad business, we have 5 strikers on the books that aren't going anywhere and don't need a sixth at the tail end of his career who's not exactly impressed when he's supposed to be playing for a deal. The strike force isn't the problem in the least, the problem is the constantly changing reactionary selections, a style of play that doesn't suit our better players and a resulting lack of confidence. We could do with bringing one or two quality players in to strengthen but not up front.

[tinman-is-god]

The article doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me.

Trundle and Noble aren't getting the chance to show their ability, they are both played infrequently and out of position more often than not and in Trundle's case in a system that is the complete antithesis of his strengths as a footballer. If we pay £1m for a striker with quick feet and tricks who loves running at defenders and then pump balls up to him at chest and head height we've only got ourselves to blame.

Put Noble in the middle of the park (and let him show the consistency he did there when he last had a run at that position) and play Trundle up front with Maynard for four or five games, play the ball on the floor and we'll see the best of all three of them. Saturday's team selection makes it look very unlikely to me that GJ will ever do that sadly.

The author seems to think that it's like Championship manager and you can sell players and then spend the transfer fee. The reality is different I'm afraid. You have to pay the player off unless they request a move. Trundle has 18 months left on a £10k a week contract, Noble 18 or 30 months on a £5.5k a week contract. Any transfer fees we recouped for them would barely make up what it would cost to agree a settlement. We'd effectively be losing two players from the squad for no financial gain to get another in.

Signing Stern John would represent very bad business, we have 5 strikers on the books that aren't going anywhere and don't need a sixth at the tail end of his career who's not exactly impressed when he's supposed to be playing for a deal. The strike force isn't the problem in the least, the problem is the constantly changing reactionary selections, a style of play that doesn't suit our better players and a resulting lack of confidence. We could do with bringing one or two quality players in to strengthen but not up front.

Whilst I appreciate the view that we may not have played to LT's strengths since he joined the club, i think that it is time they moved on if the right offers came along.

At the end of the day, look at the statistics. David Noble is billed as an attacking midfielder by many, and Trundle is clearly a striker, yet between the pair of them, they have scored just 17 goals in 146 games between them, and that is, i am sure you will agree, pretty poor.

I think its a shame that Noble and Trundle are players that many of us seem prepared to allow to leave the club, because on their day they can be fantastic, such as at Palace last season or Noble flourishing in the hole as he occasionally does.

Unfourtantely, it is only occasionally. No matter how many excuses people make, especially for LT, I think we have to be prepared to admit that the pair have massively under-performed, and whilst i agree (to an extent) that our football does not suit their styles of play, Trundle and Noble have to accept responsibility and the fact of the matter is that they have not been good enough to justify their positions within the squad, and if offers do come in for either, I would be looking to sell.

[Guest DanC]

Whilst I appreciate the view that we may not have played to LT's strengths since he joined the club, i think that it is time they moved on if the right offers came along.

At the end of the day, look at the statistics. David Noble is billed as an attacking midfielder by many, and Trundle is clearly a striker, yet between the pair of them, they have scored just 17 goals in 146 games between them, and that is, i am sure you will agree, pretty poor.

I think its a shame that Noble and Trundle are players that many of us seem prepared to allow to leave the club, because on their day they can be fantastic, such as at Palace last season or Noble flourishing in the hole as he occasionally does.

Unfourtantely, it is only occasionally. No matter how many excuses people make, especially for LT, I think we have to be prepared to admit that the pair have massively under-performed, and whilst i agree (to an extent) that our football does not suit their styles of play, Trundle and Noble have to accept responsibility and the fact of the matter is that they have not been good enough to justify their positions within the squad, and if offers do come in for either, I would be looking to sell.

Trundle has shown time and time again that he should be selected to play from the start yet GJ just ignores it and carries on bringing him on as a sub. I think the problem isn't Johnson can't handle big players it's more like Gj doesn't know who to get the best out of skillful entertaining players. GJ likes workhorses but at this moment these workhorses ain't doing a lot of work. GJ needs to adapt his tactical approach otherwise we could be in for a couple more seasons of watching dull football whilst knowing we can do so much better than what we are.

[Rednready]

The article doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me.

Trundle and Noble aren't getting the chance to show their ability, they are both played infrequently and out of position more often than not and in Trundle's case in a system that is the complete antithesis of his strengths as a footballer. If we pay £1m for a striker with quick feet and tricks who loves running at defenders and then pump balls up to him at chest and head height we've only got ourselves to blame.

Put Noble in the middle of the park (and let him show the consistency he did there when he last had a run at that position) and play Trundle up front with Maynard for four or five games, play the ball on the floor and we'll see the best of all three of them. Saturday's team selection makes it look very unlikely to me that GJ will ever do that sadly.

The author seems to think that it's like Championship manager and you can sell players and then spend the transfer fee. The reality is different I'm afraid. You have to pay the player off unless they request a move. Trundle has 18 months left on a £10k a week contract, Noble 18 or 30 months on a £5.5k a week contract. Any transfer fees we recouped for them would barely make up what it would cost to agree a settlement. We'd effectively be losing two players from the squad for no financial gain to get another in.

Signing Stern John would represent very bad business, we have 5 strikers on the books that aren't going anywhere and don't need a sixth at the tail end of his career who's not exactly impressed when he's supposed to be playing for a deal. The strike force isn't the problem in the least, the problem is the constantly changing reactionary selections, a style of play that doesn't suit our better players and a resulting lack of confidence. We could do with bringing one or two quality players in to strengthen but not up front.

Brilliant Nibor, best post for you this season, I was getting worried. Trundle and Noble should leave AFTER LJ and John. I do have a problem with John and Adebola as they are 32 and 34 respectively. Adebola is more often than not playing 70 minutes, not unlike Sproule or Noble when they get a start. Noble was GJ's best midfielder the year he took over, alongside a young Skuse or Russell, its not something new having Noble play midfield in a 4-4-2. Its now Noble, Skuse, Carle, Artus and Williams who cant get a run of games at center midfield. I've been around since the 1940's and never have I seen such a complete mismanagement of our midfield players. GJ, just do an honest job and we fans will give an honest appraisal. We are not all computor experts but there is great value to be had from some fans in the stands, right here on this forum.

[Big Stan Hibbert]

The article doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me.

Trundle and Noble aren't getting the chance to show their ability, they are both played infrequently and out of position more often than not and in Trundle's case in a system that is the complete antithesis of his strengths as a footballer. If we pay £1m for a striker with quick feet and tricks who loves running at defenders and then pump balls up to him at chest and head height we've only got ourselves to blame.

Put Noble in the middle of the park (and let him show the consistency he did there when he last had a run at that position) and play Trundle up front with Maynard for four or five games, play the ball on the floor and we'll see the best of all three of them. Saturday's team selection makes it look very unlikely to me that GJ will ever do that sadly.

The author seems to think that it's like Championship manager and you can sell players and then spend the transfer fee. The reality is different I'm afraid. You have to pay the player off unless they request a move. Trundle has 18 months left on a £10k a week contract, Noble 18 or 30 months on a £5.5k a week contract. Any transfer fees we recouped for them would barely make up what it would cost to agree a settlement. We'd effectively be losing two players from the squad for no financial gain to get another in.

Signing Stern John would represent very bad business, we have 5 strikers on the books that aren't going anywhere and don't need a sixth at the tail end of his career who's not exactly impressed when he's supposed to be playing for a deal. The strike force isn't the problem in the least, the problem is the constantly changing reactionary selections, a style of play that doesn't suit our better players and a resulting lack of confidence. We could do with bringing one or two quality players in to strengthen but not up front.

Spot on. When I saw the starting line up against Swansea, I could have cried. Trundle and Maynard as a partnership up front with Noble providing the creativity in midfield is a must have. What qualifies me to say that? Nothing apart from 24 years of watching City. But I'd be happy to put a tenner on the fact that if those three were played consistently, we'd see an increase in the number of chances created and goals scored.... well ok a fiver (what with the Credit Crunch, Christmas and so on).

[bangers]

I remember being at Ashton Gate for the Palace Playoff game and IMO Lee Trundle's performance was one of the best performances i've seen from a footballer in a very long time.....given the right support and the chance to have a run in the team he looked a CLASS ACT. Not just his touches and skill but his power and workrate were second to none.

I later rang me old man up back in London and he doesn't know the first thing bout Bristol City....after watching the game he said he thought City lacked the depth in squad and perhaps the class to compete at the Premier League.....Howevr, he also said that Lee Trundle stood out like a sore thumb as the most talented player on the pitch and someone who COULD make it at the top level.

We aint gena see it now....sorry but I think GJ has killed off Lee Trundle's career....Harsh but True IMO

[red army]

i agree both should leave at some point this season. both do not do enough to warrent a starting line up and also when come on as subs don't do much.

[kingswood red]

The article doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me.

Trundle and Noble aren't getting the chance to show their ability, they are both played infrequently and out of position more often than not and in Trundle's case in a system that is the complete antithesis of his strengths as a footballer. If we pay £1m for a striker with quick feet and tricks who loves running at defenders and then pump balls up to him at chest and head height we've only got ourselves to blame.

Put Noble in the middle of the park (and let him show the consistency he did there when he last had a run at that position) and play Trundle up front with Maynard for four or five games, play the ball on the floor and we'll see the best of all three of them. Saturday's team selection makes it look very unlikely to me that GJ will ever do that sadly.

The author seems to think that it's like Championship manager and you can sell players and then spend the transfer fee. The reality is different I'm afraid. You have to pay the player off unless they request a move. Trundle has 18 months left on a £10k a week contract, Noble 18 or 30 months on a £5.5k a week contract. Any transfer fees we recouped for them would barely make up what it would cost to agree a settlement. We'd effectively be losing two players from the squad for no financial gain to get another in.

Signing Stern John would represent very bad business, we have 5 strikers on the books that aren't going anywhere and don't need a sixth at the tail end of his career who's not exactly impressed when he's supposed to be playing for a deal. The strike force isn't the problem in the least, the problem is the constantly changing reactionary selections, a style of play that doesn't suit our better players and a resulting lack of confidence. We could do with bringing one or two quality players in to strengthen but not up front.

What a good post, I could have written it myself, but not as elequontly.

GJ is becoming a bit of a tinkerman, not having a sure touch this season.

The problem, as highlighted by many, stems from the midfield. I just hope GJ is going to address this as soon as he can.

No matter how well Skuse plays, he is only keeping the position warm.

[Redhyde]

No matter how well Skuse plays, he is only keeping the position warm.

Same as he was for Elliott. But GJ is unlikely to be his father so that's ok...

The article doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me. Trundle and Noble aren't getting the chance to show their ability, they are both played infrequently and out of position more often than not and in Trundle's case in a system that is the complete antithesis of his strengths as a footballer. If we pay £1m for a striker with quick feet and tricks who loves running at defenders and then pump balls up to him at chest and head height we've only got ourselves to blame.

The system worked very well so I don't see the need to blame anyone. I blame the people having a go at Trundle for not scoring when he was working very hard and not getting chances.

Put Noble in the middle of the park (and let him show the consistency he did there when he last had a run at that position) and play Trundle up front with Maynard for four or five games, play the ball on the floor and we'll see the best of all three of them. Saturday's team selection makes it look very unlikely to me that GJ will ever do that sadly.

When has Noble shown any consistancy in the central of midfield? He's barely had a run here. 2005/6? Long long time ago in a very different league. Or you mean at the tail of the promotion season when he was used in a 5 which you want to get away from?

[Nogbad the Bad]

i agree both should leave at some point this season. both do not do enough to warrent a starting line up and also when come on as subs don't do much.

The memorable occasions when Trundle has come on and had a clearly beneficial effect on City's performance this season have been well documented on here and been disputed by very few.

However the impossible expectation now seems to be that he will come off the bench and save the day almost every week without even being given time to adapt to the pace of the game. What is even harder to understand is even when Trundle comes on and does the near impossible and turns the game in City's favour, he is out of the squad or on the bench again for the next game.

Do you think Stern John adds more to City's game than Lee Trundle?

I don't, and would much rather he had never been signed and GJ had persevered with a Trundle/Maynard partnership for a series of games.

If Trundle is now moved on without the opportunity of playing regularly with Maynard then the fault for his 'disappointing' sojourn at the Gate will lie in the City camp rather than the player himself.

City must be desperate for Maynard to prosper and his best hope of doing so would depart AG with Trundle.

[Guest ashtonyate]

I remember being at Ashton Gate for the Palace Playoff game and IMO Lee Trundle's performance was one of the best performances i've seen from a footballer in a very long time.....given the right support and the chance to have a run in the team he looked a CLASS ACT. Not just his touches and skill but his power and workrate were second to none.

I later rang me old man up back in London and he doesn't know the first thing bout Bristol City....after watching the game he said he thought City lacked the depth in squad and perhaps the class to compete at the Premier League.....Howevr, he also said that Lee Trundle stood out like a sore thumb as the most talented player on the pitch and someone who COULD make it at the top level.

We aint gena see it now....sorry but I think GJ has killed off Lee Trundle's career....Harsh but True IMO

That's the trouble with Trundle & to a certain extent Noble they can play when the game is big enough or they feel like it. we need players who will perform week after week not when they think they will.

As for killing Trundle career he was on his way out when he sign for us he & Swansea must have thought Christmas had come early when we paid 1.2 million for him.

[Lee F]

The article doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me.

Trundle and Noble aren't getting the chance to show their ability, they are both played infrequently and out of position more often than not and in Trundle's case in a system that is the complete antithesis of his strengths as a footballer. If we pay £1m for a striker with quick feet and tricks who loves running at defenders and then pump balls up to him at chest and head height we've only got ourselves to blame.

Put Noble in the middle of the park (and let him show the consistency he did there when he last had a run at that position) and play Trundle up front with Maynard for four or five games, play the ball on the floor and we'll see the best of all three of them. Saturday's team selection makes it look very unlikely to me that GJ will ever do that sadly.

The author seems to think that it's like Championship manager and you can sell players and then spend the transfer fee. The reality is different I'm afraid. You have to pay the player off unless they request a move. Trundle has 18 months left on a £10k a week contract, Noble 18 or 30 months on a £5.5k a week contract. Any transfer fees we recouped for them would barely make up what it would cost to agree a settlement. We'd effectively be losing two players from the squad for no financial gain to get another in.

Signing Stern John would represent very bad business, we have 5 strikers on the books that aren't going anywhere and don't need a sixth at the tail end of his career who's not exactly impressed when he's supposed to be playing for a deal. The strike force isn't the problem in the least, the problem is the constantly changing reactionary selections, a style of play that doesn't suit our better players and a resulting lack of confidence. We could do with bringing one or two quality players in to strengthen but not up front.

You have completely summed up what a lot of people think about the Trundle and Noble situation that I have spoken with about it. I think the situation says more about GJ's abilities than the players. Like someone else has said the side selected for the Swansea game was a massive statement of GJ's intent I think. If he was ever going to give Noble and Trundle a game in their natural positions that was when it would / could and in my opinion should of happened.

I am shocked that GJ is wanting to (so it appears) rip up the team and start again. He appears to not have any faith in certain players to take the club forward, which is fine but a few of these he bought in to do so. He is not working with a side assembled by a previous manager, it is his. If he signs Stern John which I fear he will I can see nothing but a disaster on the horizon. Another failure for sure.

We may well escape the dreaded drop this year even with what we have (although debatable), but be sure it will be very hard to attract any decent replacements in the summer to come to a club which will have been seen to be going backwards.

I do remember the dark days of old and am grateful for our recent success, but in football things can change dramatically very quickly and I am a big believer in the 'you are only as good as your last game' ethic. On that basis we are not doing so well presently. We have seen Palarse come through a crisis much like ours already this season so feel it can be done, but it would take a climb down from a very high horse by GJ for it to happen for us and that is not about to happen anytime soon.

I think the system needs to change along with the personel but cant see that happening at all. We will i assume persevere with wingers that seem alergic to the touchline, central midfielders that cant create or score , Strikers starved of service below head height whose partnerships are shorter lasting than a Britney Spears marriage and a bench full of solutions who will be asked to perform miracles when all is already lost.

[EASTEND WURZEL]

What a good post, I could have written it myself, but not as elequontly.

GJ is becoming a bit of a tinkerman, not having a sure touch this season.

The problem, as highlighted by many, stems from the midfield. I just hope GJ is going to address this as soon as he can.

No matter how well Skuse plays, he is only keeping the position warm.

Top post , I fear It's time to question the mighty Johnson. I see a manager that is at his limit , it is apparent that he likes a dressing room with no 'big name' players, a dressing room where everyone is on a par. In essence i can understand the reasons why , however this is not going to benefit the club at all.

Big name players are what fans ultimately pay the money to see, we come through the turnstiles to be entertained, and with out them the club will never go forward.

Does he not play the like of L.T and D.N on a regular basis because he fears for the place of his son? i would think not. Or is it because as the player grows with confidence and starts to play with flair and his ability shows through it becomes obvious that the team is begging to revolve around these players and they become 'untouchable' Mr. Johnson's authority is questioned and his control is gone. I would suggest that G.J looks to the league he aspires to be in ( with or without) Bristol City. Does he think he can be successful at that level without star players?. Supporters have questioned his tactical managerial qualities , well I think his bigger problems are more to do with his lack of man management skills. Mr Johnson has zero experiance in handling 'Big name' players and is out of his depth in this situation.

His managerial C.V is very impressive in terms of what he has achieved at the clubs he has been with , and I would be 1st to congratulate him on this, unfortunately when you go from bottom up wards you can gain success by running a tight ship and collecting a team of players of equal quality who give 100% . To go further you need a dam sight more in your managerial locker than quirky comments, and a pleasant 'cheeky chappy' attitude.

Ask your self a question, 'If a fit young Jackie Dziekanowski was in our squad right now would he even manage to make the bench?

[Hicksy-BCFC]

Cracking idea - lets get rid of two of the most creative players at the club.

I'm afraid I'm seeing and hearing the same old stuff about things this season now.

From the bloke in the pub, to my family, to the fellas in the paper shop - everyone who goes down these days says "Trouble is, not just that we aren't winning, it's just terrible football too. He's strangling the good players and putting in his son and workman-like players. There's nothing driving me to go down there anymore"

We need to be winning but really we need to providing entertainment.

I mean thirty quid to watch that dross offered up against Watford and the frustration of seeing us play with our creative players on the bench and older, journeymen strikers picked instead of younger strikers.

It worries me. I can take a season of consolidation but it's not exciting at the moment at all.

[Frome Valley]

Ask your self a question, 'If a fit young Jackie Dziekanowski was in our squad right now would he even manage to make the bench?

Bristol City couldn't never afford a fit young Jackie Dziekanowski at todays prices because he would be ten million plus even if he could be kept away from the Clifton wine bar.

[EASTEND WURZEL]

Bristol City couldn't never afford a fit young Jackie Dziekanowski at todays prices because he would be ten million plus even if he could be kept away from the Clifton wine bar.

We just paid 2.25 million for Maynard with non of the quality of Jackie. My point is if we wound the clock back to yester year and G.J was at the helm you would never have seen Jackie ware the robin on his chest because he is not a G.J type of player/ person. Not the way forward in my opinion.

[dezgimed]

David Noble is billed as an attacking midfielder by many, and Trundle is clearly a striker, yet between the pair of them, they have scored just 17 goals in 146 games between them, and that is, i am sure you will agree, pretty poor.

Sell them both, and LJ, CS and GW too then, oh and NM and JA.

[Frome Valley]

We just paid 2.25 million for Maynard with non of the quality of Jackie. My point is if we wound the clock back to yester year and G.J was at the helm you would never have seen Jackie ware the robin on his chest because he is not a G.J type of player/ person. Not the way forward in my opinion.

He wouldn't have got past the interview due to the stories of Glasgows Victoria club and Lansdown wouldn't have similar either unless he wanted a return to Wilsons drinking era. It's extremely hard to come up with a comparison City could actually afford e.g young, fit, attacking sort of playmaker with world cup experience at a cost of a million.

[Redhyde]

We just paid 2.25 million for Maynard with non of the quality of Jackie. My point is if we wound the clock back to yester year and G.J was at the helm you would never have seen Jackie ware the robin on his chest because he is not a G.J type of player/ person. Not the way forward in my opinion.

What's Trundle and what's Noble? GJ doesn't dislike players with ability. He wants them to be fit and willing to play in a sytem as well though. And yes, he might oprefer other players to the ones we have currently, but that's not him writing off an entire breed of player IMO. If Dariusz was willing to do that of course he'd get in if he were good enough. Remember he failed in Scotland and scored less than Darren Byfield did for us so maybe wasn't of the required standard

[Hicksy-BCFC]

He wouldn't have got past the interview due to the stories of Glasgows Victoria club and Lansdown wouldn't have similar either unless he wanted a return to Wilsons drinking era.

Funny thing is on the basis of that we'd never consider signing George Best or Diego Maradona in their heyday!!

:noexpression:

[Frome Valley]

Funny thing is on the basis of that we'd never consider signing George Best or Diego Maradona in their heyday!!

:noexpression:

Unless Lansdown discovered oil wells in Ashton Vale to finance either.

[Hicksy-BCFC]

Unless Lansdown discovered oil wells in Ashton Vale to finance either.

Actually despite having seen Best play in person, my old man says the best player he's ever seen come down the city ground and play for the opposition was Frank Worthington.

[Frome Valley]

Actually despite having seen Best play in person, my old man says the best player he's ever seen come down the city ground and play for the opposition was Frank Worthington.

Liam Brady

[NickJ]

At the end of the day, look at the statistics. David Noble is billed as an attacking midfielder by many, and Trundle is clearly a striker, yet between the pair of them, they have scored just 17 goals in 146 games between them, and that is, i am sure you will agree, pretty poor.

I think you have said somewhere previously that writing on football forums like this has increased your chances of pursuing a career in journalism.

Unless you have some sort of agenda, I would think you'd agree that the better journalists get their facts right, which includes not deliberately distorting them.

The fact is, Trundle and Noble have started 98 games between them, the other 48 being 10/15/20 minute cameos as substitute. The games they start, more often than not they are substituted.

When you break it down further, Trundle has started 29 games, scoring 8 goals, better than 1 every 4, which considering he has been played mostly wide in recent games is maybe not as good as it should be but not that bad either.

Noble has scored 9 in 69 starts, which for a midfield player - again playing wide mostly in recent games - is not that bad.

In fact in view of the positions they are asked to play, both of their goalscoring records are as good or better than any other comparable striker or midfield player over the past 2 seasons.

All of which reduces the credibility of everything else you have said somewhat.

[Nibor]

No matter how many excuses people make, especially for LT, I think we have to be prepared to admit that the pair have massively under-performed, and whilst i agree (to an extent) that our football does not suit their styles of play, Trundle and Noble have to accept responsibility and the fact of the matter is that they have not been good enough to justify their positions within the squad, and if offers do come in for either, I would be looking to sell.

My point of view is that when selected in their correct positions they've both done as well as they can be expected to do given the things they have no control over like our style of play. I've seen enough of both to believe that they have the ability to be part of a very good successful footballing side at this level and they're not getting the opportunity. I don't think they've massively under performed and I'm not making excuses for them because I don't feel it's necessary.

We've never allowed Trundle a run of games next to another centre forward to form a partnership, the only run of games he's had up front at the start of last season saw him play next to one of two wingers, on his own or next to one of two other different strikers and he was expected to score goals off the end of 40 yard chips with his back to goal. That's like buying a nice malt whisky and drinking it with lemonade.

Noble has delivered the goods every time he's played in the middle of the park or in the hole, he has even put in some decent performances when played on the wing. We keep hearing he's not got enough stamina but we know that he's capable of getting fit enough to do 90 minutes week in week out because he has before. Him not being selected in the middle when LJ was injured was shocking IMO.

There won't be offers for Trundle because of the large contract he's on. If there's an offer for Noble it will not be of the size to leave us with any money to replace him with after we've paid off his contract. Selling him in that circumstance is just illogical.

When has Noble shown any consistancy in the central of midfield? He's barely had a run here. 2005/6? Long long time ago in a very different league. Or you mean at the tail of the promotion season when he was used in a 5 which you want to get away from?

The last time he was played in central midfield for a run of games was indeed that long ago in a different league but he was very consistent there and looked an exceptional player to me. The 4411 formation suits him but leaves us short of people in the box, we ground out draws and single goal wins which is fine but the formation is limited in how successful it can be because you won't score enough against the better teams.

I believe that a midfield pairing of Noble and Elliott is enough quality to compete with any in this division and allow us two up front and it mystifies me why we've managed to avoid trying it for over a year, particularly now when we're not being very successful with the variety of other selections we've tried.

[Redhyde]

I think you have said somewhere previously that writing on football forums like this has increased your chances of pursuing a career in journalism.

Unless you have some sort of agenda, I would think you'd agree that the better journalists get their facts right, which includes not deliberately distorting them.

The fact is, Trundle and Noble have started 98 games between them, the other 48 being 10/15/20 minute cameos as substitute. The games they start, more often than not they are substituted.

When you break it down further, Trundle has started 29 games, scoring 8 goals, better than 1 every 4, which considering he has been played mostly wide in recent games is maybe not as good as it should be but not that bad either.

Noble has scored 9 in 69 starts, which for a midfield player - again playing wide mostly in recent games - is not that bad.

In fact in view of the positions they are asked to play, both of their goalscoring records are as good or better than any other comparable striker or midfield player over the past 2 seasons.

All of which reduces the credibility of everything else you have said somewhat.

Have you taken the goals they've scored off the bench out of the stats? Because if the appearences don't count why do the goals? According to the way your stats work Brooker's scored 4 goals in 1 game this season.

As it is, Noble has 8 goals in the games he started while Trundle has 5. All of which reduces the credibility of everything else you have said somewhat.

[Redhyde]

I believe that a midfield pairing of Noble and Elliott is enough quality to compete with any in this division and allow us two up front and it mystifies me why we've managed to avoid trying it for over a year, particularly now when we're not being very successful with the variety of other selections we've tried.

I don't, but i agree it's odd it hasn't been tried. Especially now.

Really do wonder why Noble got a new contract.