Trundle And Noble Should Both Leave The Club

[big p]

What I don't understand is why GJ signed LT(I for one think lee Trundle is a fantastic player).He must of have watched him several times before he signed him.The Guys full of tricks likes to showboat and a crowd pleaser,but GJ likes workmanlike players, robots.So why did GJ waste 1m on a player he obviousley don't like.GJ obviousley don't trust him,but why?Is it personal.We are a better team with LT in it ,everyone can see it apart from the Manager(who's got UEFA coach badges).So I have to question the managers decisions,they are very perculiar.

The swansea game was a classic example,Sproule took a while to get going but when he did he had the left back in his pocket,the manager took him off.Absolutely crazy,lets wait til the kid starts playing well,then take him off.That will do his cofidence a world of good.Then he took off Maynard instead of John,We thought it would be a good ideal for LT to partner NM considering there here for the long term.

The same with Noble,the perfect opportunity to partner Elliot(skill and power),although scuse did play ok.Its as if GJ is frightened certain partnerships might work so it would be difficult for certain players to get back in the team.Or are certain players leaving soon so there is no point in trying them.

Even so his tactics are very strange.

[NickJ]

Have you taken the goals they've scored off the bench out of the stats? Because if the appearences don't count why do the goals? According to the way your stats work Brooker's scored 4 goals in 1 game this season.

As it is, Noble has 8 goals in the games he started while Trundle has 5. All of which reduces the credibility of everything else you have said somewhat.

I already made the point that more often than not when started they are brought off so that to an extent nullifies the substitute appearances.

You can use statistics all you like, and it wont be perfect, but my analysis is indisputably a fairer one than tinmanisgod's.

As I understand it many managers in the game rely on those opti whatever they are ones, which tells you who ran the most miles and who made the most pointless 5 yard sideways passes.

I pefer to use the judgment of my eyes, and when I watch Trundle and Noble, I like what I see.

I really cant see what a minority have against Trundle and Noble when they are the 2 most talented players this club has - and do the business, when played in their best positions.

[The Humble Realist]

I remember being at Ashton Gate for the Palace Playoff game and IMO Lee Trundle's performance was one of the best performances i've seen from a footballer in a very long time.....given the right support and the chance to have a run in the team he looked a CLASS ACT. Not just his touches and skill but his power and workrate were second to none.

I later rang me old man up back in London and he doesn't know the first thing bout Bristol City....after watching the game he said he thought City lacked the depth in squad and perhaps the class to compete at the Premier League.....Howevr, he also said that Lee Trundle stood out like a sore thumb as the most talented player on the pitch and someone who COULD make it at the top level.

We aint gena see it now....sorry but I think GJ has killed off Lee Trundle's career....Harsh but True IMO

i don't know how long youve watched City for but i agree Trundle played very well against Palace last season bu he was by no means the best player on the pitch.

On that night Carey was superb. Ben Watson and Shaun Derry both had superb games for Palace and performances by Elliot, Carey, McCombe, Basso last season on occasions far outdid Trundle against Palace.

I couldnt even count the number of times Tinnion was head and shoulders above the rest on a field and some of the games Murray used to ahve were incredible. Trundle scored a great goal against Palace and played very well, as did the rest of the team, no better no worst, i wouldnt describe it as "one of the best performances iv seen by a footballer in a very long time"

[simon uk]

I am sure the reason noble wasnt picked on saturday is because he gives less defensively than LJ does, and that isnt much. Skuse gets around the pitch and isnt scared to put a tackle in, but idealy his distribution could be better and there is zero goal threat. For us against Swansea it was important to stop the rot and keep things tight, which is why he was picked. I guess your ideal midfielder therefore is someone who you would want on your side when things arent going well, can pick a pass, beat a man, and realistically for us chip in with 5-10 goals a season. Marv can be relied on at this level for 5 a season, and he likes a tackle, but he could do with someone next to him who can do his share defensively, but with a little more guile on the ball when it is needed and score a goal. We don't have anyone who can do that, Noble can barely last 90 minutes, and you wouldnt want him in midfield against wolves away, for example. None of the other midfielders can do it to a good enough level either, so if we can move out a few of them and get someone better in, then do it.

Carle would have been great this season with Elliott, but we still would have been missing the fox in the box striker, which is why Carle was sacrificed to give us the cash for Maynard, and we don't have the money to do it all. Still the good thing about Noble is he only cost about 50 grand, and his transfer value must be a lot higher now.

[Nibor]

I am sure the reason noble wasnt picked on saturday is because he gives less defensively than LJ does, and that isnt much.

I really disagree with that. IMO Noble makes more tackles and more importantly gives the ball away less.

[CiderSomerset]

According to Stephen Coombes, writing for FansOnline.net at http://fansonline.net/bristolcity/article.php?id=289 , both Trundle and Noble should be offloaded in January as they simply do not have the consistency to justify their positions within the team/squad.

Read Steve's other thoughts take on the January transfer window in the above link, but what do you make of the contention that we need to sell Trunds and Nobes in order to replace them?

We don't need to sell our best two players.. We need to play them week in / week out and give them a run in the team. If they both played for 10 - 15 games we would see a massive improvement in their fitness levels, confidence, and most importantly, I believe the results would start going our way. With these two in the team it would give the opposition something to think about...

[big p]

We don't need to sell our best two players.. We need to play them week in / week out and give them a run in the team. If they both played for 10 - 15 games we would see a massive improvement in their fitness levels, confidence, and most importantly, I believe the results would start going our way. With these two in the team it would give the opposition something to think about...

Absolutley right,but what do we know.We are championship manager managers,we havent done the UEFA coach courses have we.That makes GJ far superior than us.After all he has the insight and skill to play 2 of our strikers on the wing a left back at right back.And a central midfielder every week even though IMO scared to tackle,don't run and passes backwards.Oh and yes signs another striker and consistantly plays with one striker.And I almost forgot the real fans should get behind the team of which are low in cofidence,of which is the fans fault.

So I think us championship manager managers should shut and admire the genius which is GJ.

[simon uk]

Absolutley right,but what do we know.We are championship manager managers,we havent done the UEFA coach courses have we.That makes GJ far superior than us.After all he has the insight and skill to play 2 of our strikers on the wing a left back at right back.And a central midfielder every week even though IMO scared to tackle,don't run and passes backwards.Oh and yes signs another striker and consistantly plays with one striker.And I almost forgot the real fans should get behind the team of which are low in cofidence,of which is the fans fault.

So I think us championship manager managers should shut and admire the genius which is GJ.

I am no happy clappy, but I cannot believe people are giving GJ that sort of comment, what does he have to do get some respect just because you happen not to agree with his selections? If you think you can do better why don't you offer your services to Mr Lansdown and see what he says. We are in a temporary dip, which should be expected after the amount of growth we have achieved in a short time thanks to our genius manager, why don't you go off to the mem, they are doing the same to a manager who has got them up and tries to play decent football, so you should fit right in.

[big p]

I am no happy clappy, but I cannot believe people are giving GJ that sort of comment, what does he have to do get some respect just because you happen not to agree with his selections? If you think you can do better why don't you offer your services to Mr Lansdown and see what he says. We are in a temporary dip, which should be expected after the amount of growth we have achieved in a short time thanks to our genius manager, why don't you go off to the mem, they are doing the same to a manager who has got them up and tries to play decent football, so you should fit right in.

Everything I said is what GJ has said or have done ,So if you cant see this then i think you should take a visit to the mem.You stated we are in a TEMPORARY DIP,we havent played good football since last season.Even the Doncaster game in which we won 4-1,we were awful in the first half.Ive said this many times ,the chairman is the hero,hes backed the manager all the way,even a 6th stiker even though he plays with one,thats backing.I think SL would of definatley got us here.

[simon uk]

Everything I said is what GJ has said or have done ,So if you cant see this then i think you should take a visit to the mem.You stated we are in a TEMPORARY DIP,we havent played good football since last season.Even the Doncaster game in which we won 4-1,we were awful in the first half.Ive said this many times ,the chairman is the hero,hes backed the manager all the way,even a 6th stiker even though he plays with one,thats backing.I think SL would of definatley got us here.

ok, so the left back gets injured the same time as several of the other defenders, but we don't have any experienced replacements, we could buy ashley cole, but we don't have 20 million, so we play one of our versatile squad players there for a couple of weeks to try and get through, what else would you have suggested? Seeing as we have had god knows how many managers in the last 10 years with lansdown on the board who all had money to spend funny how only 1 of them got us up and to a top 6 finish in the championship in his first season at that level. No ones perfect, but fairs fair you should respect that GJ has done a fantastic job so has built up enough credit so that when things don't go as well he shouldnt get those comments from the "fans". I seriously cant believe what I read on here sometimes.

[NickJ]

Absolutley right,but what do we know.We are championship manager managers,we havent done the UEFA coach courses have we.That makes GJ far superior than us.After all he has the insight and skill to play 2 of our strikers on the wing a left back at right back.And a central midfielder every week even though IMO scared to tackle,don't run and passes backwards.Oh and yes signs another striker and consistantly plays with one striker.And I almost forgot the real fans should get behind the team of which are low in cofidence,of which is the fans fault.

So I think us championship manager managers should shut and admire the genius which is GJ.

Have to say I agree with simonuk.

I think Trundle and Noble should play more regularly, particularly together, and I am quite happy to express my opinion on other team personnel, formation and style of play issues.

But to make the sort of comments about GJ above, and others which seem to regularly appear on this forum, is way way over the top.

As fans we are entitled to express our opinions, which naturally will be things we disagree with, however overall GJ has done a great job and just doesnt deserve those sort of disrespectful comments.

[big p]

ok, so the left back gets injured the same time as several of the other defenders, but we don't have any experienced replacements, we could buy ashley cole, but we don't have 20 million, so we play one of our versatile squad players there for a couple of weeks to try and get through, what else would you have suggested? Seeing as we have had god knows how many managers in the last 10 years with lansdown on the board who all had money to spend funny how only 1 of them got us up and to a top 6 finish in the championship in his first season at that level. No ones perfect, but fairs fair you should respect that GJ has done a fantastic job so has built up enough credit so that when things don't go as well he shouldnt get those comments from the "fans". I seriously cant believe what I read on here sometimes.

So what your suggesting is that we only positive comments about GJ.About the left backs ,we have one ,who of which smashed his face in trying to fulfill the fans dream of playing in the top flight ,bradley orr.He has done a good job getting where we are today,but is this as far as he can take us.Will you be happy if LJ got his place back even if Cole scuse plays well until hes back

[SJC]

[gaz897]

Currently its more entertaining watching Noble's and trundle's flicks at half time than it is watching the whole team play. they should both be accomadated in the team in my opinion.

[Nibor]

Whilst I do admit that our style of football at times does not suit Trundle it is unfair to use that as a reason for his inclusion in the side. It is surely agreed upon that whilst showing glimpses (last day of last season vs Preston he was fantastic), Trundle has failed to consistently deliver an acceptable level of performance since he joined last summer. Now of course your point is that we do not play to his strengths but surely, and this is where I believe that Johnson got the Trundle signature wrong (if toeing your line), you cannot sign a 32 year old unproven {at this level} striker with a view to building your team around him. Trundle was signed to score goals; he has not consistently done this. If you want to build our team around a striker who has scored 8 goals in 51 league games (not attempting to be unfair, substitute appearances are included in that figure) whilst at the club and a midfielder in his late twenties who has only started 124 league games in his career then that is your choice. I understand the apparent logic - both are good ball players and on their day can produce that something special, however to jump back to reality how often does this actually happen. The answer, very rarely.

I don't agree that Trundle has failed to deliver an acceptable level of performance. I was one of the very few people who argued against signing Trundle in the first place because of his age and cost, but since we did it makes sense to me to use him as best we can. I haven't suggested building a side around him. I'd not include Trundle or Noble for that bit of magic, I'd include them because they are better than the other players we have in those positions. Adebola does a specific job well, but it is a job that I think we should only use situationally not as our first gameplan because it doesn't take advantage of our other players enough. Brooker is crocked. John looks ok, no more no less. Maynard has massive potential but is another example of a player whose strengths we're not playing to. He needs through balls and defence splitting passes and that's a big part of the reason why I don't favour selling the only two players we have who can provide them.

Why is it that Lee Trundle escapes criticism because the team 'does not play to his strengths' when, for example, Ivan Sproule is berated and deemed not good enough for the Championship on similar evidence to that offered in defence of Trundle. If we were to employ a tactic of consistently knocking balls over the opposing full backs head then Sproule would be one of the most penetrative players in the league. Instead Sproule is cast aside as rubbish while Trundle continues to enjoy iconic status and be stoutly defended. Surely what is good for the goose . . . . .

Trundle doesn't escape criticism and I've criticised him when I thought he played badly. Sproule is not good enough on evidence of every game I've seen him play. He has no footballing brain, little technique and no ability to shoot or deliver a cross. All he has is pace and he himself doesn't use it correctly because he comes short for the ball all the time and then loses it trying to turn rather than playing off the shoulder of his marker. If we were playing balls in behind, like we did for a 20 minute spell on the weekend, he doesn't know what to do with them.

Which is exactly the reason why we should sell them in January.

I am dealing in reality. Whether right or wrong Lee Trundle is currently being paid 10k (your figure) to sit on the bench at best, not make the 16 at worst. If you think he should be in the starting 11 every week then fine that is your opinion and you are more than welcome to it. However forget opinion, forget who we think are the better or worse players at the club and answer one simple question;

Is it justifiable to have a top earner at the club on the fringes of the squad?

I believe the answer to that is no and I believe offloading him in January, essentially a move to get him off the wage bill and {in theory} save ourselves / free up 40k a month is clearly the only course of action to take.

Please do not interpret me as a 'Trundle critic.' I like him and believe he could play a role at this club, I said a couple of weeks back and shall say again - in an ideal world Lee Trundle would take a pay cut, drop onto a squad wage and continue his Bristol City career. Again dealing in reality, that will not happen and as such, whether or not you think he is the best player at the club or the worst, it is not acceptable to accommodate a top earner who has a minimal impact on the team.

I don't interpret you as a Trundle critic but you're mistaken if you think that selling Trundle or Noble would save us enough money to replace them. It wouldn't because we'd be obliged to settle their contracts which given the size and length of them would at least match any transfer fee we were paid and quite likely exceed it in Trundle's case.

Fair enough.

I think it is very safe to say we are yet to see the best of John who is perhaps not quite fully fit and has had his preparations disrupted by International duty. Unlike all of our other strikers he is proven at this level and carries an un-paralleled International one. Paired with Maynard and given time to gel it has the potential to be a genuinely frightening partnership both this season and next.

To be clear and respond in general to the reply;

I like both Trundle and Noble. I do believe that Trundle's impact from the bench is ridiculously over-rated and, if i'm honest, that the Noble fan club is somewhat due to other central midfielders currently on the books. Both of these players are good footballing talents however the reality of the situation is that it is unacceptable to accommodate Trundle at the club whilst on his top end first team wage and if Noble is not trusted to play in his natural position when his only major competition is injured then he serves little purpose to the squad.

Don't allow your personal opinion to overshadow the realities of both players and their respective situations.

I'm not. I'm pointing out that the reality is that they're on the wage bill, we don't save money by selling them, so we should use them. Whenever we've given Trundle the ball to feet facing goal he's been great, we've just done that very rarely.

John to me looks like an intelligent player who can shoot but at 32 and undoubtedly after a big wage packet I'd pass. He hasn't shown anywhere near enough. Long term I'd rather see Maynard building a partnership with Akinde, and short-medium term use Trundle and Adebola next to Maynard until the summer.

[simon uk]

So what your suggesting is that we only positive comments about GJ.About the left backs ,we have one ,who of which smashed his face in trying to fulfill the fans dream of playing in the top flight ,bradley orr.He has done a good job getting where we are today,but is this as far as he can take us.Will you be happy if LJ got his place back even if Cole scuse plays well until hes back

No I am not saying that, it is peoples decision on whether they agree with his team tactics, starting 11 transfer targets etc etc, but he deserves more respect because of what he has achieved here than you give with your comment. By the way, Orr is a right back, not a left back - are you saying we should have played him at left back against reading? that sums it up really.

the orr argument has been done to death elsewhere, I would have preferred him to stay, but as far as I am aware he has turned down a contract offer and will leave either way at the end of the season, and he may not be willing to risk getting injured again which could scupper a future contract, and if he isnt happy to risk that, and I wouldnt blame him for it, then he shouldnt be playing for us.

With regard to LJ in midfield, I think we could get a better player, but I wont resort to those comments about GJ about it, presumably you only think LJ plays because of who his dad is?

[big p]

No I am not saying that, it is peoples decision on whether they agree with his team tactics, starting 11 transfer targets etc etc, but he deserves more respect because of what he has achieved here than you give with your comment. By the way, Orr is a right back, not a left back - are you saying we should have played him at left back against reading? that sums it up really.

the orr argument has been done to death elsewhere, I would have preferred him to stay, but as far as I am aware he has turned down a contract offer and will leave either way at the end of the season, and he may not be willing to risk getting injured again which could scupper a future contract, and if he isnt happy to risk that, and I wouldnt blame him for it, then he shouldnt be playing for us.

With regard to LJ in midfield, I think we could get a better player, but I wont resort to those comments about GJ about it, presumably you only think LJ plays because of who his dad is?

ok fair comment.perhaps I'm getting a bit carried awy

[cityfan]

Trundle should play - Period! We should do everything we can to play to his strength's.

Noble should be given a run alongside Elliott. Why? Because we have tried everything else except this. If that doesn't work, try Williams alongside Elliott.

We are now 3-1 down against Ipswich after what looks like a crazy 7 minutes so we have to do something different going forward and not continue with the same approach that ISN'T working. This would also include dropping Mcindoe. How many more excuses for so many poor performances?!

Finally, put Akinde in the 16 as he is tonight. Let raw talent surface and see if it's cream. Do not let it curdle and stagnate in the reserves where he will learn very little with so few games played.

If GJ continues along the same path he is he the only person who will truly suffer and that's GJ because he will come under the ultimate pressure for being perceived to have made the wrong decisions. GJ is the decision maker and what screams out for me is that most people/supporters/fans see the same issues which are not being addressed. Namely, not playing Trundle and Noble, our style of football and our supply to the strikers and the lack of quality and supply from the midfield to the strikers. That many people are not stupid and that many people are not wrong.

[Ron]

Basso, Orr, Trundle and Noble all have intentions of leaving in January, whether they all will or not is another matter entirely.

Orr's reasoning is far from solely money-related, and is fuelled by GJ's actions, something which has had a negative impact on the dressing room.

[NickJ]

Basso, Orr, Trundle and Noble all have intentions of leaving in January, whether they all will or not is another matter entirely.

Orr's reasoning is far from solely money-related, and is fuelled by GJ's actions, something which has had a negative impact on the dressing room.

Carry on.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Basso, Orr, Trundle and Noble all have intentions of leaving in January, whether they all will or not is another matter entirely.

Orr's reasoning is far from solely money-related, and is fuelled by GJ's actions, something which has had a negative impact on the dressing room.

Really?

When you add Carle into that, and McAllister's continued absence, that is the spine of the side last year that could be leaving. I sensed something wasn't right when Orr was transfer listed. Indeed, we have loaned Brooker to Doncaster. He scored on his debut for them then got injured. I personally think he is superior to most of our strikers when fit.

And I don't think we should sell either....they are two of our best players in my book and offer creativity.

[Nibor]

Basso, Orr, Trundle and Noble all have intentions of leaving in January, whether they all will or not is another matter entirely.

Orr's reasoning is far from solely money-related, and is fuelled by GJ's actions, something which has had a negative impact on the dressing room.

I'll counter your rumour with another from a very good source.

Orr's reasons for leaving are solely money related because he pig headedly and incorrectly believes that one of the other players is earning far more than they actually are despite being told frankly that is rubbish so he's refusing to sign a contract unless he is offered the same fictional amount of money and he's not shy about telling certain people this as though it's fact when it isn't.

Basso, Trundle and Noble will all be here at the end of January and are very happy at the club.

Just to give the other side, like.

[Atticus]

I struggle to believe Trundle and Noble are both very happy here. How can any player be happy when they are only ever being used when we are losing badly?

[Ron]

I'll counter your rumour with another from a very good source.

Orr's reasons for leaving are solely money related because he pig headedly and incorrectly believes that one of the other players is earning far more than they actually are despite being told frankly that is rubbish so he's refusing to sign a contract unless he is offered the same fictional amount of money and he's not shy about telling certain people this as though it's fact when it isn't.

Basso, Trundle and Noble will all be here at the end of January and are very happy at the club.

Just to give the other side, like.

My very good source is one of the players in question. Orr and Basso both feel badly treated from GJ for reasons that are not money related, and Noble & Trundle are fed up of being out of the team so much. They are not happy people.

[NickJ]

My very good source is one of the players in question. Orr and Basso both feel badly treated from GJ for reasons that are not money related, and Noble & Trundle are fed up of being out of the team so much. They are not happy people.

If its not money related for Basso what possible reason could he have for feeling badly treated by GJ?

[Ron]

He and Orr feel they have been "kept quiet" by Gary since we have begun getting some recognition. Basso was fully fit according to the medical team 2 days before the Doncaster match in September, which is a few days before I heard from the player. Gary decided that he was "injured" and coudn't play.

[NickJ]

He and Orr feel they have been "kept quiet" by Gary since we have begun getting some recognition. Basso was fully fit according to the medical team 2 days before the Doncaster match in September, which is a few days before I heard from the player. Gary decided that he was "injured" and coudn't play.

Oh dear. Warning coming your way I feel.

You mustn't say "injured" on here.

EDIT: I will join you.

Like Carey wasn't "injured" and McIndoe wasnt "injured" and Noble has never been "injured"?

That sort of "injured"?

[Mr Popodopolous]

He and Orr feel they have been "kept quiet" by Gary since we have begun getting some recognition. Basso was fully fit according to the medical team 2 days before the Doncaster match in September, which is a few days before I heard from the player. Gary decided that he was "injured" and coudn't play.

That would explain some of the team selections in September then, which were strange to say the least.

Not least the selection of Skuse at right back I think it was vs Wolves who were the runaway leaders, at Molineux, while leaving Orr on the bench when he was fit, and the Weale one to which you refer.

Until it was pointed out on another thread that Mcallister was injured, I thought that the reason he was not playing lately was because he was "injured".

[tinman-is-god]

I think you have said somewhere previously that writing on football forums like this has increased your chances of pursuing a career in journalism.

Unless you have some sort of agenda, I would think you'd agree that the better journalists get their facts right, which includes not deliberately distorting them.

The fact is, Trundle and Noble have started 98 games between them, the other 48 being 10/15/20 minute cameos as substitute. The games they start, more often than not they are substituted.

When you break it down further, Trundle has started 29 games, scoring 8 goals, better than 1 every 4, which considering he has been played mostly wide in recent games is maybe not as good as it should be but not that bad either.

Noble has scored 9 in 69 starts, which for a midfield player - again playing wide mostly in recent games - is not that bad.

In fact in view of the positions they are asked to play, both of their goalscoring records are as good or better than any other comparable striker or midfield player over the past 2 seasons.

All of which reduces the credibility of everything else you have said somewhat.

I totally agree with you that journalists should get their facts right, i couldn't agree more. As i said (as of yesterday) the pair had played those games between them, i didn't say starts, therefore i would imagine that it was clear that I was referencing both starts and sub appearences.

Also, for the record, three of LT's nine goals for the club have come from the bench - Home to Plymouth, Away to Norwich and Home to Birmingham. When we factor this in, LT has scored five goals in 29 starts, not the eight in 29 which you state. Thus, his ratio is pretty much one in every six starts. Not great. Pretty bad in all honesty. Brooker and Adebola both have a better goals to start ratios at the club, highlighting LT's lack of production in front of goal.

Just to clarify, I have no agenda against Trundle or Noble. If you re-read my post you will see that I appreciate they have moments of brilliance, but it is their lack of consistency that would lead to them being allowed to leave the club for me.

I will support every and any City player 100%, and i find it strange that to openly express that I believe LT and Noble do not quite do enough and are not consistent enough is seen as 'an agenda'. Its not, its just a case of my (and many others') view that they simply don't do enough.

[NickJ]

I totally agree with you that journalists should get their facts right, i couldn't agree more. As i said (as of yesterday) the pair had played those games between them, i didn't say starts, therefore i would imagine that it was clear that I was referencing both starts and sub appearences.

.... its just a case of my (and many others') view that they simply don't do enough.

OK, I accept you have no agenda. However I do think you are using inaccurate statistics to support what you want to say.

It is absolutely NOT clear that you meant both starts and sub appearances, and considering that 1/3 of their apperances have been as sub, I would have thought it would be fair to state that.

Yes, some goals have come off the bench. However considering they are both brought off more often than not when they do start, I would say that nullifies the sub appearances to an extent.

Furthermore, their scoring records are not much different than any other midfield player or striker still here over the past 2 seasons. So presumably, you also feel its goodbye to Johnson, McIndoe, Sproule, Adebola and Maynard. Not going to have much of a squad left are we.

You say many feel they don't do enough. Depends what you mean by many. Look at the posts on this forum, in overwhelming support of Trundle and Noble, and have been for some time. And if you want facts rather than anecdotal, have a look at this:

http://www.otib.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=108539

That was 4 games ago. Would be even higher now I would imagine. And before you say that is not a representative sample, I can tell you as somebody who has studied statistics at various times in my career (boring I know), that sample has probably got a 95% or thereabouts likelihood of being representative of City fans.

That's the facts out of the way.

Of course you and the minority of others, and GJ, may be right. All I would say is, give them both a run of a dozen games, because the results and just as importantly the style of football cant be much worse than it is right now.