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[redcityman]

Cooper a great lower league Manager the one who showed us there was light at the end of the tunnel never forget us going too Eastville and beating the Rovers when they were the top team in Bristol.

Never hear anything about what Cooper is doing now??.

Jordan left the Club just when we were getting it together pity really never the same the next time around.

I believe he now scouts for Southampton.

[Pederho ll]

Eh... we played pretty poorly for the majority of last season ???? It didn't look that way to me & how come we finished in the top 6 ???

Of the players you quote, Johnson has been vindicated re Easter who has failed at PAFC & is now at Col Utd. So far he;s also been vindicated re Mifsud whose done next to nothing all season.

The big loss was Meteb - maybe we should've been more accommodating.... only those involved in the negotiation really know. In truth if you sign a new player & tell him specifically not to do something & he goes ahead & does it... it does raise concerns though.

I not really too sure how we finished top 6 to be honest. The only thing I can put this down to is a tremendous work ethic and more often than not, quite brillant defending. We certainly never played teams 'off the pitch', which you would expect to happen at the very worst occassionally for a top 6 team, but that certainly never happend. We never looked like scoring 3/4 goals a game, let alone scoring 3/4 goals a game!

Ashtonyate is correct that at time we 'rode our luck' and although you cannot base the success of a season purely on 'luck' because that would be silly, I think we had a far share of spectacular goals, late goals, fantasitic saves, goal line clearances, last ditch tackles etc etc, which I am sure you will agree don't always come along when things arn't quite going for you, like this season. Many of the aforementioned of course come about from a strong work ethic. However, I don't think our work rate this season has been to the same high standard as we set last season, hence our league position.

I would also say that last season we seemed to have an amazing team spirit, whereas this season something seems to be missing...don't ask me what, I have no idea, perhaps ask GJ!

Finally, I genuinely do not see a massive difference between our performances this year compared with last season, and without the work rate we adopted last season, I am confident that we would have finished no higher than mid-table.

[Guest ashtonyate]

I believe he now scouts for Southampton.

Thanks for that

[Mr Mosquito]

Thanks for that

To get back to topic, what I've been saying for the last 2 years is that we need tanks to get through the West Midlands Police force area. With the incident of the open top bus - where our lads were ordered back to Bristol on their way to Sheffield by the West Midlands Police - I've been proved right.

A genuine Red Army Gestapo busting tank......hunting down the Gestapo not being hunted by the Gestapo .....

[Cider red]

I cant beleive I'm reading this....some of the utter dogs balls on this forum is ridiculous. We are an average championship team people get a grip! I would have bitten anyones hands off had they offerd me this position 2 years ago. Last season was an amazing one, and maybe we can acheive that again soon but come on were in our second season you cant seriously be questioning the bloke who has taken us from being relegated to league 2 (yes thats where we would hav been without him) to competing competently in the championship in 2 years! I think some people either a) hav shocking memories and hav forgotten how crap it was watching city for 9 years in division 2 or b) have got confused and think because were playing in red were man united!? sort it out...rant over!

[Guest ashtonyate]

I cant beleive I'm reading this....some of the utter dogs balls on this forum is ridiculous. We are an average championship team people get a grip! I would have bitten anyones hands off had they offerd me this position 2 years ago. Last season was an amazing one, and maybe we can acheive that again soon but come on were in our second season you cant seriously be questioning the bloke who has taken us from being relegated to league 2 (yes thats where we would hav been without him) to competing competently in the championship in 2 years! I think some people either a) hav shocking memories and hav forgotten how crap it was watching city for 9 years in division 2 or b) have got confused and think because were playing in red were man united!? sort it out...rant over!

If johnson teams under performs he has a go at them sometimes in public, then its only right that his paymasters have a go at him if he under performs.

Which I and a lot more believe he has in two key areas signing players since being promoted and his my way or by way man management skills.

I don't think we are man u but even the great Ferguson takes a bit of flack at times that's football.

[edson]

I am going on who we have signed I have known City to have so much trouble in bring in players in all my years and the ones we do sign are poor value for money

The first team he assembled gained promotion. The second team he developed from there finished fourth in the Championship.

Tell me how you consider those players to be the poorest value for money you've seen signed in all your years supporting the club. Tell me, for example, how they're worse value for money than Tony Dinning, Lee Peacock, Jamie Smith and Luke Wilkshire (as a few examples).

Do you insider knowledge that Coppell said that, as he let him go to a London club on loan I would have thought that he could get into trouble there as easy as Bristol

No. Gary Johnson is on record, stating that as the reason. The player himself was happy to come.

Only after they agreed to buy him they did not do a lot of homework on what he was like as a person which is strange seeing Johnson stricken criteria.

The point being made, was that Meteb didn't want to come to City. This wasn't the case, as it was the club who decided not to conclude the deal.

[Mr Mosquito]

Tell me how you consider those players to be the poorest value for money you've seen signed in all your years supporting the club. Tell me, for example, how they're worse value for money than Tony Dinning, Lee Peacock, Jamie Smith and Luke Wilkshire (as a few examples).

Those were the days. Lee Peacock - rumour has it - was signed with a shoulder injury he gained from falling off a bar stool. Nick Carle signed by Gary Johnson was far better than Luke Wilkshire as signed by Danny Wilson - the moral is that if you want to sign an Australian sign a gifted one. Jamie Smith and Tony Dinning hardly featured and were only average Div 1 players for us at best.

[William Stand]

Those were the days. Lee Peacock - rumour has it - was signed with a shoulder injury he gained from falling off a bar stool. Nick Carle signed by Gary Johnson was far better than Luke Wilkshire as signed by Danny Wilson - the moral is that if you want to sign an Australian sign a gifted one. Jamie Smith and Tony Dinning hardly featured and were only average Div 1 players for us at best.

Am sure one season Jamie Smith played quite a bit.... have a feeling he was even captian for a brief spell. The point is about VFM not No of appearances - at the time it was public knowledge that we really pushed the boat out for Dinnings wages so you can't really argue he wasn't VFM.

[Guest ashtonyate]

The first team he assembled gained promotion. The second team he developed from there finished fourth in the Championship.

If you read what this post is about its since we have been promoted I said that he was a good lower league Manager and some of his signing were good in the third. It about his ability of signing players in the top flight.

Tell me how you consider those players to be the poorest value for money you've seen signed in all your years supporting the club. Tell me, for example, how they're worse value for money than Tony Dinning, Lee Peacock, Jamie Smith and Luke Wilkshire (as a few examples).

No. Gary Johnson is on record, stating that as the reason. The player himself was happy to come.

The point being made, was that Meteb didn't want to come to City. This wasn't the case, as it was the club who decided not to conclude the deal.

.

[Mr Mosquito]

Am sure one season Jamie Smith played quite a bit.... have a feeling he was even captian for a brief spell. The point is about VFM not No of appearances - at the time it was public knowledge that we really pushed the boat out for Dinnings wages so you can't really argue he wasn't VFM.

Edson has got a point because our very best players from the Danny Wilson era - Brian Tinnion, Tony Thorpe, Louis Carey, Scott Murray - were not signed by Danny Wilson. Danny Wilson had a relatively easy job as all he had to do was add some real quality to those afore mentioned players and promotion would have been assured. Danny Wilson was given 4 years and he failed, Gary Johnson inherited a mess when he took over and he almost got us to the Premier League in 2 years. Use any benchmark or yardstick and you can see that Gary Johnson has done an excellent job for us.

[edson]

If you read what this post is about its since we have been promoted I said that he was a good lower league Manager and some of his signing were good in the third. It about his ability of signing players in the top flight.

We're not in the top flight.

So, what you're saying is, you've been proved right by Gary Johnson's inability to sign players in a division he isn't even managing in.

I see.

[Mr Mosquito]

We're not in the top flight.

So, what you're saying is, you've been proved right by Gary Johnson's inability to sign players in a division he isn't even managing in.

I see.

ashtonyate may be posting from a parallel universe where Bristol City FC top flight football is the reality.

In our universe: Basso, McCoombe, Elliott - excellent signings by Gary Johnson and Co.

[Ixion]

We're not in the top flight.

So, what you're saying is, you've been proved right by Gary Johnson's inability to sign players in a division he isn't even managing in.

I see.

Still trying to add reason and logic to an AY post Edson? GL mate!

[Mr Mosquito]

Still trying to add reason and logic to an AY post Edson? GL mate!

There very often is reason and logic to an ashtonyate post but not in any conventional sense. I reckon ashtonyate is trying to write that Gary Johnson needs to find a 20+ goal per season striker and that's what he means by stating that Gary Johnson has failed in this area of the pitch - the final third. Last time we went up automatically from this division we had the fire power of Tom Ritchie and Paul Cheesley up front - both easily capable of 20+ goals at this level.

[4eveREDDy]

ashtonyate may be posting from a parallel universe where Bristol City FC top flight football is the reality.

In our universe: Basso, McCoombe, Elliott - excellent signings by Gary Johnson and Co.

and to keep it all in perspective RG what is your honest opinion on all of GJs other signings, his loan signings, team selections, team performance this season, ability to make the correct signings in Jan to keep the club moving in the right direction, i for one have think he has done a excellent job in the last couple of seasons but we have ground to a halt and yes i do wonder if he can turn it around because i base my views on what i see on the football pitch at present, not base it on what he has done in the past

[Mr Mosquito]

and to keep it all in perspective RG what is your honest opinion on all of GJs other signings, his loan signings, team selections, team performance this season, ability to make the correct signings in Jan to keep the club moving in the right direction, i for one have think he has done a excellent job in the last couple of seasons but we have ground to a halt and yes i do wonder if he can turn it around because i base my views on what i see on the football pitch at present, not base it on what he has done in the past

We were really unlucky against Swansea and Sheff Weds not to get the 6 points. We played well and as a team. 6 points from those games would have put a new perspective on the first half of this season. Very early in the season I realised that our midfield was being totally outclassed especially by the likes of Birmingham and then Reading. I would have strengthened the midfield at that stage if I was Gary Johnson. Had we managed to sign that Derby midfielder - Dave Jones - and kept Nick Carle I'm certain we'd be top 6 now. Overall, this season could still be a success if we get a high calibre midfield together in the January transfer window.

[Guest ashtonyate]

We're not in the top flight.

So, what you're saying is, you've been proved right by Gary Johnson's inability to sign players in a division he isn't even managing in.

I see.

We are in the top flight of the Football League but you are trying to nit pick

[edson]

We are in the top flight of the Football League but you are trying to nit pick

No, I'm trying to make some sense of your posts.

You described the league below as the 'third', yet call the Championship the top flight.

Can you answer this:

The first team he assembled gained promotion. The second team he developed from there finished fourth in the Championship.

Tell me how you consider those players to be the poorest value for money you've seen signed in all your years supporting the club. Tell me, for example, how they're worse value for money than Tony Dinning, Lee Peacock, Jamie Smith and Luke Wilkshire (as a few examples).

[Guest ashtonyate]

The first team he assembled gained promotion. The second team he developed from there finished fourth in the Championship.

Tell me how you consider those players to be the poorest value for money you've seen signed in all your years supporting the club. Tell me, for example, how they're worse value for money than Tony Dinning, Lee Peacock, Jamie Smith and Luke Wilkshire (as a few examples).

Well I thought Peacock was ok in the first few years he played for us Wilkshire was not to bad we did not want him to go, dinning was not a good buy really Smith was a bit like Noble good on his day

No. Gary Johnson is on record, stating that as the reason. The player himself was happy to come.

Well then he should come to us this Window unless Copple will not sell him back to us

The point being made, was that Meteb didn't want to come to City. This wasn't the case, as it was the club who decided not to conclude the deal.

We made the offer for him and had he not played that match he would have been a city player you are saying, well its lucky we did not sign him if he was that disagreeable he would have never been in the team the way Johnson falls out with players

[Guest ashtonyate]

No, I'm trying to make some sense of your posts.

You described the league below as the 'third', yet call the Championship the top flight.

Yes the CC is run by the FL the Prem is run by a different body And the CC is the top flight of the FL

Can you answer this:

The first team he assembled gained promotion. The second team he developed from there finished fourth in the Championship.

If you read what the post is called is about the last two years not since he has been manager.

Tell me how you consider those players to be the poorest value for money you've seen signed in all your years supporting the club. Tell me, for example, how they're worse value for money than Tony Dinning, Lee Peacock, Jamie Smith and Luke Wilkshire (as a few examples).

see the other post

[edson]

If you read what the post is called is about the last two years not since he has been manager.

I now officially have no idea what you're talking about. I was under the impression we got promoted and finished fourth in the Championship in the last two years.

[Ixion]

There very often is reason and logic to an ashtonyate post but not in any conventional sense. I reckon ashtonyate is trying to write that Gary Johnson needs to find a 20+ goal per season striker and that's what he means by stating that Gary Johnson has failed in this area of the pitch - the final third. Last time we went up automatically from this division we had the fire power of Tom Ritchie and Paul Cheesley up front - both easily capable of 20+ goals at this level.

The point I was making Gobbers was that; trying to rationalise some of AY's posts (not all of them by any means) is fraught with difficulty and trying to reply with sensible argument is often like knocking one's head against the wall.

Agree with Tom Richie and Paul Cheesley (great bloke), neither of them were, or would have been in The Cheese's case, out of their depth in the old Division One.

A massive shame Paul did not get to fully show what he was capable of with that injury with Shilts.

And what about Bob Taylor though, hardly ever gets a mention when we discuss the best strikers this club has ever had. He scored 50 goals in 106 games for us- hows that for a strike rate! Few if any players playing in any division now could match that surely (minimum 100 games to qualify being fair?) ? Any stato's care to find the player with a higher goals to games ratio (subs appearances ignored for ease of debate).

Can anyone beat Bobs 0.47 goals per game?

[Pederho ll]

I now officially have no idea what you're talking about. I was under the impression we got promoted and finished fourth in the Championship in the last two years.

I fully appreciate that GJ has done an excellent job since coming here, best manager in years and years, I never expected him to achive so much in such a short space of time and am truly thrilled that he is 'our' manager......... but you are allowed to be critical of him.

Many imply that he is bordering on 'untouchable', well I don't subscribe to that I'm afraid. Great manager no doubt, has he made mistakes, yes plenty, could we have achieved even more than we did last season, most definately!

I have witnessed a team that as of Christmas/January last year (and yes I know we got into the play-off final blah blah blah) we have slowly been going backwards (yes I realise that we should be happy just playing in the Championship after years of League One football and goodness knows we owe him for giving us decent football to watch) and the fact remains that we were in a very, very strong position going into the second half of last season, with an unbelievable opportunity of going up automatic, and to finish in the play-offs was actually in my eyes the very least he should have achieved, after such a brillant and unexpected first half of the season.

Sadly, this season has witnessed a continue of this decline and I think the point I am making is that if he is as good a manager as we think he is or hope he is, surely he should have strengthed the team/squad in key areas before the start of this season, In my opinion he should have done a little more to give us every chance of promotion last season, by further strengthening in that January transfer window. Ultimately he remained loyal to his team, a respectable thing to do in this day and age, but one that backfired. He should have learnt his lesson then, but it seems he has on evidence of dealings prior to this season. I sincerely hope that he trades well this transfer window, as it seems he must!

[Guest ashtonyate]

I fully appreciate that GJ has done an excellent job since coming here, best manager in years and years, I never expected him to achive so much in such a short space of time and am truly thrilled that he is 'our' manager......... but you are allowed to be critical of him.

Many imply that he is bordering on 'untouchable', well I don't subscribe to that I'm afraid. Great manager no doubt, has he made mistakes, yes plenty, could we have achieved even more than we did last season, most definately!

I have witnessed a team that as of Christmas/January last year (and yes I know we got into the play-off final blah blah blah) we have slowly been going backwards (yes I realise that we should be happy just playing in the Championship after years of League One football and goodness knows we owe him for giving us decent football to watch) and the fact remains that we were in a very, very strong position going into the second half of last season, with an unbelievable opportunity of going up automatic, and to finish in the play-offs was actually in my eyes the very least he should have achieved, after such a brillant and unexpected first half of the season.

Sadly, this season has witnessed a continue of this decline and I think the point I am making is that if he is as good a manager as we think he is or hope he is, surely he should have strengthed the team/squad in key areas before the start of this season, In my opinion he should have done a little more to give us every chance of promotion last season, by further strengthening in that January transfer window. Ultimately he remained loyal to his team, a respectable thing to do in this day and age, but one that backfired. He should have learnt his lesson then, but it seems he has on evidence of dealings prior to this season. I sincerely hope that he trades well this transfer window, as it seems he must!

Thank you for that I am glad some one has understood what I have been trying to get over in this thread word are not my best subjected but I try to be readable when I post.

[Pederho ll]

Thank you for that I am glad some one has understood what I have been trying to get over in this thread word are not my best subjected but I try to be readable when I post.

No worries, I understood exactly what you were saying........I think it is often a very convenient 'not understanding you' for some on here, as they continue with their blind faith, no questions asked, GJ our leader so we must trust etc etc etc, outlook.

[edson]

I fully appreciate that GJ has done an excellent job since coming here, best manager in years and years, I never expected him to achive so much in such a short space of time and am truly thrilled that he is 'our' manager......... but you are allowed to be critical of him.

Many imply that he is bordering on 'untouchable', well I don't subscribe to that I'm afraid. Great manager no doubt, has he made mistakes, yes plenty, could we have achieved even more than we did last season, most definately!

I have witnessed a team that as of Christmas/January last year (and yes I know we got into the play-off final blah blah blah) we have slowly been going backwards (yes I realise that we should be happy just playing in the Championship after years of League One football and goodness knows we owe him for giving us decent football to watch) and the fact remains that we were in a very, very strong position going into the second half of last season, with an unbelievable opportunity of going up automatic, and to finish in the play-offs was actually in my eyes the very least he should have achieved, after such a brillant and unexpected first half of the season.

Sadly, this season has witnessed a continue of this decline and I think the point I am making is that if he is as good a manager as we think he is or hope he is, surely he should have strengthed the team/squad in key areas before the start of this season, In my opinion he should have done a little more to give us every chance of promotion last season, by further strengthening in that January transfer window. Ultimately he remained loyal to his team, a respectable thing to do in this day and age, but one that backfired. He should have learnt his lesson then, but it seems he has on evidence of dealings prior to this season. I sincerely hope that he trades well this transfer window, as it seems he must!

Absolutely be critical of him, if you or anyone else sees reason to be. That's perfectly healthy and right and I don't consider him to be untouchable at all.

However, claiming that the players Gary Johnson has brought in are the worst value for money in all his years supporting City, and that the club has been declining for the last two years (which, as I have had pointed out to me twice, is the period we're looking at) is not criticism, constructive or otherwise, it is downright nonsense.

I fully agree that more signings should have been made in the summer and I hope this is addressed in January. But I also respect the way Gary Johnson is managing the club and have no doubt he has his reasons for doing things the way he is.

Unfortunately, many of us want instant success and a quick fix, rather than a culture change that will benefit the club for years to come. So when the results don't come, fingers are quickly pointed and the foundations that are built but out of view are forgotten.

[Mr Mosquito]

The point I was making Gobbers was that; trying to rationalise some of AY's posts (not all of them by any means) is fraught with difficulty and trying to reply with sensible argument is often like knocking one's head against the wall.

Agree with Tom Richie and Paul Cheesley (great bloke), neither of them were, or would have been in The Cheese's case, out of their depth in the old Division One.

A massive shame Paul did not get to fully show what he was capable of with that injury with Shilts.

And what about Bob Taylor though, hardly ever gets a mention when we discuss the best strikers this club has ever had. He scored 50 goals in 106 games for us- hows that for a strike rate! Few if any players playing in any division now could match that surely (minimum 100 games to qualify being fair?) ? Any stato's care to find the player with a higher goals to games ratio (subs appearances ignored for ease of debate).

Can anyone beat Bobs 0.47 goals per game?

Super Bob Taylor is a legendary player. I'm pretty sure that Joe Jordan signed him from his former club Leeds. Yet another great goalscorer, along with Andy Cole, that we should have kept hold of.

[Guest ashtonyate]

Absolutely be critical of him, if you or anyone else sees reason to be. That's perfectly healthy and right and I don't consider him to be untouchable at all.

However, claiming that the players Gary Johnson has brought in are the worst value for money in all his years supporting City, and that the club has been declining for the last two years (which, as I have had pointed out to me twice, is the period we're looking at) is not criticism, constructive or otherwise, it is downright nonsense.

If you read post 106 again I did not say what you said I said, I said I have never known us to have so much trouble of signing players in all my years of watching city and the ones he has signed are poor value for money Which is not the same as you quoited me as saying

I fully agree that more signings should have been made in the summer and I hope this is addressed in January. But I also respect the way Gary Johnson is managing the club and have no doubt he has his reasons for doing things the way he is.

Unfortunately, many of us want instant success and a quick fix, rather than a culture change that will benefit the club for years to come. So when the results don't come, fingers are quickly pointed and the foundations that are built but out of view are forgotten.

[Red Ferret]

this thread makes the baby jesus cry