Stern John - On Reflection,

[Meh]

A couple of days ago, I was willing to concede that GJ obviously knows best and perhaps the lazy player i'm seeing has a lot more to offer, but, things are rankling me.

The obvious thing is his lack of involvement. The guy won't move 3 yards towards the ball, he expects it right to his feet. He rarely jumps for a header, instantly giving away possession and you don't win fouls unless you leave the ground at any level. The ref needs to see a genuine challenge being stopped. On Sunday, he won one header; Maynard won three ffs !!

We have our Manager stating you won't see him move much on the pitch, but, he is great around the other lads and the dressing room. Remind you of anybody? Maybe a £1M striker lots of people, at least prior to this week (before the great Stern John love in started) wanted to see start ahead of Stern John.

Trundle has been publicly chastised by GJ for his lack of involvement. Stern it seems, has been given full approval for the same thing!! Trundle, for me, does put in the effort, however, his lack of pace/mobility hampers him as it does Stern. Why one rule for one ageing player and totally different for another?

Prior, to Maynard's recent emergence, many people have questioned GJ in the transfer market. I suggest his latest backing of Stern is due to the now apparent fact that he was here for the season irrespective of how he performed.

The majority on here were baying for SJ to go back to the Saints only last week, so what's changed so quickly?

Apparently his performance at Palarse helped, albeit, I don't see that as he once again didn't move and apart from one or two neat passes all we saw was a poor shot which should have been buried.

The other reason is he has been praised by Ivan and Sproule on the Official Spin site. Firstly, what are they going to say? "yeah, Stern's a lazy ####### so I don't really know why he plays". Get real; players will say what they are expected to say and what they are prompted to say or it is a 1-way ticket to the bench or reserves.

If you take Nicky; I have commented as others have, that it is obvious that the aforementioned Trundle has been very supportive of him; always encouraging, always going over to give a quick word or pat on the head (that's when he can actually get on the pitch). If anybody outwardly appears to be mentoring Maynard, it is LT. However, suddenly, although you see little talking on the pitch between the two, it is Stern that is the one helping the young lad out.

I would suggest, it is a mixture of all the experienced players helping out the young lads i.e Trundle, Adebola, Stern, Carey etc., however, in the week the club announces a relatively unsuccessful loan signing is here for the season; a loan signing that has been questioned by a vocal majority; all we hear is how great he has been.

Sorry, I don't buy it. His performances are not good enough and they are plenty of other players who are good around the dressing room. He should have gone back to the Saints.

The simple fact is we were lead to believe we actually had an option to release in January when we plainly did not, unless GJ was to back-track on a gents agreement that would reflect badly on the club.

Ivan and Nicky are doing their jobs. They would say the same if Trundle was due to leave in January and then decided to stay.

Orr will be another example. If he goes, some player or other will be on the main site stating we can cope, we will bring in a better player etc. If he stays, the same player will be stating how chuffed the squad is !!

Just for a second, forget GJ's approval of Stern not having to work hard for the team (even though he drops Trundle and Noble for that very reason). Forget Nicky and Ivan singing his praises and ask yourself; has he truly done enough to warrant large wages and a regular starting place?

[petehinton]

A couple of days ago, I was willing to concede that GJ obviously knows best and perhaps the lazy player i'm seeing has a lot more to offer, but, things are rankling me.

The obvious thing is his lack of involvement. The guy won't move 3 yards towards the ball, he expects it right to his feet. He rarely jumps for a header, instantly giving away possession and you don't win fouls unless you leave the ground at any level. The ref needs to see a genuine challenge being stopped. On Sunday, he won one header; Maynard won three ffs !!

We have our Manager stating you won't see him move much on the pitch, but, he is great around the other lads and the dressing room. Remind you of anybody? Maybe a £1M striker lots of people, at least prior to this week (before the great Stern John love in started) wanted to see start ahead of Stern John.

Trundle has been publicly chastised by GJ for his lack of involvement. Stern it seems, has been given full approval for the same thing!! Trundle, for me, does put in the effort, however, his lack of pace/mobility hampers him as it does Stern. Why one rule for one ageing player and totally different for another?

Prior, to Maynard's recent emergence, many people have questioned GJ in the transfer market. I suggest his latest backing of Stern is due to the now apparent fact that he was here for the season irrespective of how he performed.

The majority on here were baying for SJ to go back to the Saints only last week, so what's changed so quickly?

Apparently his performance at Palarse helped, albeit, I don't see that as he once again didn't move and apart from one or two neat passes all we saw was a poor shot which should have been buried.

The other reason is he has been praised by Ivan and Sproule on the Official Spin site. Firstly, what are they going to say? "yeah, Stern's a lazy ####### so I don't really know why he plays". Get real; players will say what they are expected to say and what they are prompted to say or it is a 1-way ticket to the bench or reserves.

If you take Nicky; I have commented as others have, that it is obvious that the aforementioned Trundle has been very supportive of him; always encouraging, always going over to give a quick word or pat on the head (that's when he can actually get on the pitch). If anybody outwardly appears to be mentoring Maynard, it is LT. However, suddenly, although you see little talking on the pitch between the two, it is Stern that is the one helping the young lad out.

I would suggest, it is a mixture of all the experienced players helping out the young lads i.e Trundle, Adebola, Stern, Carey etc., however, in the week the club announces a relatively unsuccessful loan signing is here for the season; a loan signing that has been questioned by a vocal majority; all we hear is how great he has been.

Sorry, I don't buy it. His performances are not good enough and they are plenty of other players who are good around the dressing room. He should have gone back to the Saints.

The simple fact is we were lead to believe we actually had an option to release in January when we plainly did not, unless GJ was to back-track on a gents agreement that would reflect badly on the club.

Ivan and Nicky are doing their jobs. They would say the same if Trundle was due to leave in January and then decided to stay.

Orr will be another example. If he goes, some player or other will be on the main site stating we can cope, we will bring in a better player etc. If he stays, the same player will be stating how chuffed the squad is !!

Just for a second, forget GJ's approval of Stern not having to work hard for the team (even though he drops Trundle and Noble for that very reason). Forget Nicky and Ivan singing his praises and ask yourself; has he truly done enough to warrant large wages and a regular starting place?

good post with some great points.

The only reason i could think we're playing him is reputation ? Like what he CAN do in some games

And history, 8 goals behing Pele in international football

I'd still have Trundle over him week in week out

[Nibor]

has he truly done enough to warrant large wages and a regular starting place?

Not even close in my view. We're paying him an awful lot of money and 2 goals in 8 appearances isn't a good return for it.

It was interesting to note that the balance of opinion on here a week or two back was to send him back but that now it's become clear it was always a season long loan and the club have put some spin on it that balance seems to have shifted.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Sorry, I don't buy it. His performances are not good enough and they are plenty of other players who are good around the dressing room. He should have gone back to the Saints.

Completely agree and I've said the same on another thread.

What's good for the goose should be good for the gander, unless that ganders name is Lee Trundle of course.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Not even close in my view. We're paying him an awful lot of money and 2 goals in 8 appearances isn't a good return for it.

It was interesting to note that the balance of opinion on here a week or two back was to send him back but that now it's become clear it was always a season long loan and the club have put some spin on it that balance seems to have shifted.

I don't think the balance has necessarily shifted, we're just resigned to the fact Stern is staying so have to make the best of it.

I think there will be huge outpouring of disappointment, even anger, on this forum if this turn of events triggers Trundle's departure.

Trundle and Maynard would be a far more productive partnership IMO., and I still hope we'll see it for a prolonged period.

[petehinton]

I don't think the balance has necessarily shifted, we're just resigned to the fact Stern is staying so have to make the best of it.

I think there will be huge outpouring of disappointment, even anger, on this forum if this turn of events triggers Trundle's departure.

Trundle and Maynard would be a far more productive partnership IMO., and I still hope we'll see it for a prolonged period.

Yeah i think John will start more games then not now

Because, as you said, he's here until the end of the season so you may as well make the most of it

No point of extending a loan to put the player on the bench every game

[Nibor]

Yeah i think John will start more games then not now

Because, as you said, he's here until the end of the season so you may as well make the most of it

No point of extending a loan to put the player on the bench every game

Just to be clear, we didn't extend his loan.

It was a season long loan from day one. They just didn't tell us that.

[headhunter]

Very good post.

I seem to recall Lansdown saying a few years back that we would never sign anyone who's past their best and whilst Stern John is only here on loan he is IMO well past his sell by date.

This club puts out more spin than New Labour.

The "good for the dressing room spirit" being attributed to John's retention is in line with giving Scott Murray a one year deal too. On this basis I reckon we could be paying nigh on £10k per week in wages to our two comedians - could we sign Jack Dee or Frank Skinner for less?

I would really like to be inspired by our transfer window activity but I feel I won't be.

[gater2]

Really good and thoughtful post. I completely agree on the Trundle vs John issue, and also, on the looking through club 'spin'. I don't particularly blame GJ and BCFC for keeping cards close to their chest; there's no way a club can be 100% honest in public or all havoc would break loose. And for all those who think GJ is immune from criticism, this is not a lack of confidence in him. I believe he is the best manager we've had for over a decade, he is doing a wonderful job, but there is no such thing as the perfect manager, and it is our right as fans to highlight, hopefully for constructive purposes, any problems we might see with how the team/club seems to be run. There needs to be a balance between blind following even when things are going dreadfully and criticism and actually thinking independently.

[screech]

I am probably in the minority but I think we look a better team and more likely to score a goal when John is in the team. His movement is better than Trundles, has pace and is proven at this level. Not saying Trundle is a bad player because I like him too.

Trundle hasn't worked out and he had plenty of games at the start of last season to cement a place, his cameo appearances like Nobles seem to bring out the best in him, I don't believe he does enough when he starts a game.

We are now finally playing football again and I fully expect to see John score some goals now, especially when it looks like we have a couple of wingers at the club again.

So I'm pleased we got him on board, and for a player that is proven at this level you have to pay the wages.

[bh red]

has he truly done enough to warrant large wages and a regular starting place?

not even close to doing enough in the team?

he's a decent player but no better than Trundle for me.

[sodburyred]

I am probably in the minority but I think we look a better team and more likely to score a goal when John is in the team. His movement is better than Trundles, has pace and is proven at this level. Not saying Trundle is a bad player because I like him too.

Trundle hasn't worked out and he had plenty of games at the start of last season to cement a place, his cameo appearances like Nobles seem to bring out the best in him, I don't believe he does enough when he starts a game.

We are now finally playing football again and I fully expect to see John score some goals now, especially when it looks like we have a couple of wingers at the club again.

So I'm pleased we got him on board, and for a player that is proven at this level you have to pay the wages.

Agree completely! Everyone I go to games with agrees hes a really good player! Hes improving our team performance and we do look a far more attacking threat when hes on the pitch! I think its crazy how people on here slate him! He's a class act who is proven at this level!!

Some of you need to get of your high horse and realise that we're not the biggest and best team in the league and that we're lucky to have such an experienced proven player like John in our team!!

And yes he does have a lazy style of play but so do alot of good players. If John had alot of energy and was chasing down everything he would be at a bigger club than ours!!

We have the balance right with him and maynard and look like scoring and winning games yet people want him out!!

[Super Scotty Murray]

I may be in the minority but I am happy that Stern John is staying. I agree that he can be frustrating at times when he doesnt appear to give his all in a game but at the end of the day, everyone on here will agree that we have been lacking quality up front and he brings us that.

Him and Nicky Maynard have forged a really good partnership and if you don't think it is anything to do with Stern John that Nicky Maynard is scoring goals you are simply wrong.

He may not be the perfect player but is heads and shoulders above Trundle. I really don't see what the big deal with Trundle is, he gets this godly adoration from a lot of fans and he has scored about 6 goals in 60 games for us. Trundle is good to come on for the last 20 mins and frustrate opposition defences but other than that he is useless.

Long may the John/Maynard front two continue. The last two games (Watford, Palace) are the best football we have played for over a year and I would not want to change it for the world at the mo.

[Lack of Action Man]

A couple of days ago, I was willing to concede that GJ obviously knows best and perhaps the lazy player i'm seeing has a lot more to offer, but, things are rankling me.

The obvious thing is his lack of involvement. The guy won't move 3 yards towards the ball, he expects it right to his feet. He rarely jumps for a header, instantly giving away possession and you don't win fouls unless you leave the ground at any level. The ref needs to see a genuine challenge being stopped. On Sunday, he won one header; Maynard won three ffs !!

We have our Manager stating you won't see him move much on the pitch, but, he is great around the other lads and the dressing room. Remind you of anybody? Maybe a £1M striker lots of people, at least prior to this week (before the great Stern John love in started) wanted to see start ahead of Stern John.

Trundle has been publicly chastised by GJ for his lack of involvement. Stern it seems, has been given full approval for the same thing!! Trundle, for me, does put in the effort, however, his lack of pace/mobility hampers him as it does Stern. Why one rule for one ageing player and totally different for another?

Prior, to Maynard's recent emergence, many people have questioned GJ in the transfer market. I suggest his latest backing of Stern is due to the now apparent fact that he was here for the season irrespective of how he performed.

The majority on here were baying for SJ to go back to the Saints only last week, so what's changed so quickly?

Apparently his performance at Palarse helped, albeit, I don't see that as he once again didn't move and apart from one or two neat passes all we saw was a poor shot which should have been buried.

The other reason is he has been praised by Ivan and Sproule on the Official Spin site. Firstly, what are they going to say? "yeah, Stern's a lazy ####### so I don't really know why he plays". Get real; players will say what they are expected to say and what they are prompted to say or it is a 1-way ticket to the bench or reserves.

If you take Nicky; I have commented as others have, that it is obvious that the aforementioned Trundle has been very supportive of him; always encouraging, always going over to give a quick word or pat on the head (that's when he can actually get on the pitch). If anybody outwardly appears to be mentoring Maynard, it is LT. However, suddenly, although you see little talking on the pitch between the two, it is Stern that is the one helping the young lad out.

I would suggest, it is a mixture of all the experienced players helping out the young lads i.e Trundle, Adebola, Stern, Carey etc., however, in the week the club announces a relatively unsuccessful loan signing is here for the season; a loan signing that has been questioned by a vocal majority; all we hear is how great he has been.

Sorry, I don't buy it. His performances are not good enough and they are plenty of other players who are good around the dressing room. He should have gone back to the Saints.

The simple fact is we were lead to believe we actually had an option to release in January when we plainly did not, unless GJ was to back-track on a gents agreement that would reflect badly on the club.

Ivan and Nicky are doing their jobs. They would say the same if Trundle was due to leave in January and then decided to stay.

Orr will be another example. If he goes, some player or other will be on the main site stating we can cope, we will bring in a better player etc. If he stays, the same player will be stating how chuffed the squad is !!

Just for a second, forget GJ's approval of Stern not having to work hard for the team (even though he drops Trundle and Noble for that very reason). Forget Nicky and Ivan singing his praises and ask yourself; has he truly done enough to warrant large wages and a regular starting place?

Fantastic post agree with virtually everything in there

[Ryskip]

I posted in a previous thread the similarities between John and Berbatov, please don't think I'm saying John is anywhere near Berbatov but lets not forget he came to us short of games and it's taken him a while to settle in as it would most players, remember we didn't see the best of Trundle until the end of last season.

Not all players should be judged on their work rate but what I have noticed is that Nicky gets a lot more space playing with John. Also some of his performances have been good, he was my man of the match against forest and could have easily score a trick on another day and his first touch is as good as anyone at the club, penalty against Burnley being an example of this.

He doesn't always look the most enthused but he's scored close to 100 league goals and you don't get them without working on being in the right place at the right time.

Give the guy a chance not so long ago Maynard was a waste of money and now he's the toast of the town?!

[Whale Eye Beef Hooked]

You don't have to run around like a headless chicken to be a good player. Teddy Sheringham never moved that much but was effective in what he did. Stern John looks lazy but he does make intelligent runs to drag defenders to make room for Maynard which Adebola doesnt do .

I agree that Trundle would do be very effective in the middle of a three man strike force but we don't see what goes on in training. Perhaps GJ has tried it and it didnt look good ??

We can't complain because for the first time in probably 2 years we have a forward line that has got good balance. If SJ plays the majority of the games left this season then i am sure he will score a fair few goals.

[Nibor]

I posted in a previous thread the similarities between John and Berbatov, please don't think I'm saying John is anywhere near Berbatov but lets not forget he came to us short of games and it's taken him a while to settle in as it would most players, remember we didn't see the best of Trundle until the end of last season.

Not all players should be judged on their work rate but what I have noticed is that Nicky gets a lot more space playing with John. Also some of his performances have been good, he was my man of the match against forest and could have easily score a trick on another day and his first touch is as good as anyone at the club, penalty against Burnley being an example of this.

He doesn't always look the most enthused but he's scored close to 100 league goals and you don't get them without working on being in the right place at the right time.

Give the guy a chance not so long ago Maynard was a waste of money and now he's the toast of the town?!

He's scored 86 goals in 219 starts and 84 sub appearances over 9 years at this level. That's less than 10 goals and 25 starts per season and those numbers are only going to go down at his age. So when people say proven player, what exactly do they mean?

John is a fairly intelligent player with good vision and can strike a ball well, his touch is nothing special and nor is his movement. He isn't going to be any more effective a partner for Maynard than Trundle would be IF we played the ball on the floor properly IMO.

[Guest belfastrobin]

I am probably in the minority but I think we look a better team and more likely to score a goal when John is in the team. His movement is better than Trundles, has pace and is proven at this level. Not saying Trundle is a bad player because I like him too.

Trundle hasn't worked out and he had plenty of games at the start of last season to cement a place, his cameo appearances like Nobles seem to bring out the best in him, I don't believe he does enough when he starts a game.

We are now finally playing football again and I fully expect to see John score some goals now, especially when it looks like we have a couple of wingers at the club again.

So I'm pleased we got him on board, and for a player that is proven at this level you have to pay the wages.

I tend to agree with you screech. LT had alot of chances last year to become a first team regular but failed to take them imo. Tbh i cant see why all the loving for the bloke, Yea he shows some great skill on ocassions but he doesnt seem to perform week in week out. He does seem to be more of an impact player coming off the bench late on in games.

What i cant understand is everyone slagging off SJ saying he's not worth the money as he's lazy, doesnt track back, cant win headers and he's only scored 2 goals in 8 games. Now if i remember correctly a certain LT who cost £1m and around £10000 p/wk was exactlly the same last season and when he wasn't getting selected all the LT fan club were coming on here complaining. So whats the difference??

I do believe SJ will be a great addition to our squad and in time he will score more goals. He is proven at this level so give him time to settle. Him and NM seem to be striking up a good partnership at the min which is great to see. I also think GJ will try to improve SJ's work rate as he has with LT

[Nibor]

I tend to agree with you screech. LT had alot of chances last year to become a first team regular but failed to take them imo. Tbh i cant see why all the loving for the bloke, Yea he shows some great skill on ocassions but he doesnt seem to perform week in week out. He does seem to be more of an impact player coming off the bench late on in games.

What i cant understand is everyone slagging off SJ saying he's not worth the money as he's lazy, doesnt track back, cant win headers and he's only scored 2 goals in 8 games. Now if i remember correctly a certain LT who cost £1m and around £10000 p/wk was exactlly the same last season and when he wasn't getting selected all the LT fan club were coming on here complaining. So whats the difference??

I do believe SJ will be a great addition to our squad and in time he will score more goals. He is proven at this level so give him time to settle. Him and NM seem to be striking up a good partnership at the min which is great to see. I also think GJ will try to improve SJ's work rate as he has with LT

Trundle never had a problem with workrate or movement or tracking back. If you watched him play he worked extremely hard. The problem with him was twofold - we never gave him a chance to form a partnership with another striker and we played hoofball to him instead of giving him the ball to feet, simple as that.

The point is we already had Trundle, Stern John is costing us much more than he is every week and whether you think he's offering more or less it certainly isn't enough more to make it value for money.

[Guest belfastrobin]

Trundle never had a problem with workrate or movement or tracking back. If you watched him play he worked extremely hard. The problem with him was twofold - we never gave him a chance to form a partnership with another striker and we played hoofball to him instead of giving him the ball to feet, simple as that.

The point is we already had Trundle, Stern John is costing us much more than he is every week and whether you think he's offering more or less it certainly isn't enough more to make it value for money.

Thats not what GJ said. Are you questioning his judgement??

[Tunley Legend]

What is it with GJ acquiring players that divide the support clean in half?!!!

[Nibor]

Thats not what GJ said. Are you questioning his judgement??

If that's what he said then yes, I think he got it wrong. I don't think he said it though.

Are you suggesting GJ has never been wrong?

What are you basing your opinions of Trundle on?

[SJC]

The ONLY problem I would have with John being here would be if Styver is signed. In that instance you then have two well paid strikers (not including Trundle and Adebola) competing for one striking role when funds could be allocated elsewhere.

In my opinion John has a fantastic touch, good footballing brain and a pedigree unmatched by any other striker, or player, at the club.

I would also very much doubt that Sproule has been forced to spout some false rhetoric in attempt to win over fans. If you choose not to believe it then fair enough but I somehow fail to believe GJ has forced Sproule to issue an untrue statement.

If John scores 2 in the next 3 games he will be the new darling. Let us not forget that until recently Maynard was a 'waste of money' and en masse fans were packing Sproule's bags in anticipation of January.

[Guest belfastrobin]

If that's what he said then yes, I think he got it wrong. I don't think he said it though.

Are you suggesting GJ has never been wrong?

What are you basing your opinions of Trundle on?

Yes that is what he said regarding LT

I'm not suggesting GJ is never wrong but on this ocassion i believe him to be right and you to be wrong.

My opinions of LT are based on watching him play obviously. Ive watched him alot in the last year and a half and tend to agree with GJ

[Redtucks]

Just to be clear, we didn't extend his loan.

It was a season long loan from day one. They just didn't tell us that.

Are you sure of that?

According to the PFA website:

"Striker John, who joined the Robins in October, originally signed until the end of the year. But Johnson revealed he had an informal agreement with Southampton counterpart Jan Poortvliet to keep the Trinidad and Tobago star for longer if the move worked out."

I would suggest that if either side was unhappy then he would not have been kept on till the end of the season.

No different in principle to a loan with a view to a permanent transfer.

[Nibor]

Are you sure of that?

According to the PFA website:

"Striker John, who joined the Robins in October, originally signed until the end of the year. But Johnson revealed he had an informal agreement with Southampton counterpart Jan Poortvliet to keep the Trinidad and Tobago star for longer if the move worked out."

I would suggest that if either side was unhappy then he would not have been kept on till the end of the season.

No different in principle to a loan with a view to a permanent transfer.

The Southampton chairman said at their AGM that the loan was always a season long one, I'm sure there was a get out though, anything else would be madness.

[Nibor]

Yes that is what he said regarding LT

I'm not suggesting GJ is never wrong but on this ocassion i believe him to be right and you to be wrong.

My opinions of LT are based on watching him play obviously. Ive watched him alot in the last year and a half and tend to agree with GJ

You have a link to the manager saying that because I read most if not all of his interviews and I've never heard or read him say it?

So in all the times you've watched LT you've never noticed that he plays very well when we give him the ball to feet facing goal and doesn't when we don't?

And you think he has a lack of workrate when he's frequently found running the channels wide and deep to try and make himself available?

Strange point of view but each to their own.

[miketh2nd]

To be honest I just don't see the point in get going against John we have him for the season Maynard's and Sproule's form happen to improve in recent. Then Sproule makes big praise of him. BUt yes I'm sure we would rather he hadn't of come the other two players still not be on the best form possibly Maynard may have picked up anyway . But as for sproule he hasn't that form since buying him. Personally I think John will come good and in a few months you'll be saying he just took a while to settle in just like maynard. Anyway thats just my point of view oh and didn't John get the assist of the only goal to maynard? seriously guys I think for some it's a bitter pill to swallow which I suppose it is people see him not as talented as trundle and work effort not as much yet he is doing the job.

[SnozRobin]

I am probably in the minority but I think we look a better team and more likely to score a goal when John is in the team. His movement is better than Trundles, has pace and is proven at this level. Not saying Trundle is a bad player because I like him too.

Trundle hasn't worked out and he had plenty of games at the start of last season to cement a place, his cameo appearances like Nobles seem to bring out the best in him, I don't believe he does enough when he starts a game.

We are now finally playing football again and I fully expect to see John score some goals now, especially when it looks like we have a couple of wingers at the club again.

So I'm pleased we got him on board, and for a player that is proven at this level you have to pay the wages.

I couldn't agree more - excellent post.

We play better football with John in the team and he appears a very good foil for Nicky Maynard.

Whilst I think Trundle is a great personailty and love to watch his cameos (second half agains Plymouth was sensational) he simply doesn't have it in his locker to do it consistently at this level. Given the choice between Trundle and John, I have no doubt that John gives more to the team and will score (and create) more goals. There simply isn't a place for Lee Trundle in our side. Unfortunately he is a bit of a luxury player at this level.

[Will Rollason]

So in all the times you've watched LT you've never noticed that he plays very well when we give him the ball to feet facing goal and doesn't when we don't?

And you think he has a lack of workrate when he's frequently found running the channels wide and deep to try and make himself available?

What does Stern offer that LT doesnt is the question then?

Well i suppose he plays more with his back to goal whereas LT likes to be facing his man. SJ isnt particularly good at it though.

His apparent work rate is worse and his tracking back is non exsistant.

I would imagine his goals to game rate is similar BUT at a higher level.

I should imagine that LT is asking himself the same questions.

Stern seems to be a player that the manager will make allowances for that he wouldnt make for others. Also we are hitting a bit of form with him in the team in a 4-3-3 which in a managers eyes will be the best reason to select him.

Re his wages; surely we will be paying a % ? If not then an element of getting our moneys worth comes into it?

MY opinion of him hasnt changed at all.

Good player, good touch, wins pens, decent record at this level BUT very frustrating to watch.imho.

[Guest belfastrobin]

You have a link to the manager saying that because I read most if not all of his interviews and I've never heard or read him say it?

So in all the times you've watched LT you've never noticed that he plays very well when we give him the ball to feet facing goal and doesn't when we don't?

And you think he has a lack of workrate when he's frequently found running the channels wide and deep to try and make himself available?

Strange point of view but each to their own.

I watched the interview on bcworld and it was also mentioned on this forum at the time. GJ stated that LT and DN's work rate was not good enough and needed to be worked on. I'm sure someone else could clarify this.

In all the times ive seem LT play yes he does play better when the ball is played to feet facing goal but he's not as good as alot make him out to be. Imo he is an average CCC player thats all, and i think SJ is a better partner for NM

He maybe freguently found running the channels etc but the point is he cant do it for a full game which is why he is always subbed and why he is better as an impact player late on in a match

[redrob]

Although I agree that SJ is very frustrating (especially when the ball is 3 yards away and bobbling about unchallenged) I have to say that tehre is obvioulsy something he is doing that is bringing Nicky Maynard to the fore!

Sj does have a nack of making intelligent movements toward or away from Nicky that are reminiscent of a basketballer setting a screen or set play to allow another player to loose his marker.

I too agree that SJ is not a prolific goal scorer and never has been. Even his 19 goals last season, his best return for a season (other than at Columbus Crew) were at a ratio of 1 goal every 2.5 games.

Yes 2 in 8 games is not great but then again it is no worse than Adebola or Trundle and if Nicky is scoring perhaps SJ is the striker who will not score bagfulls but will allow another player to do that such as Ole Gunnar Solskjar playing with Nady Cole at Man Utd?

[Alex_BCFC]

I thought he was good when he turned up and I still think he is a good player with an excellent touch. He links the play well. Yes he is lazy and really City fans don't like lazy players- they like hard workers like Marvin Elliot and Bradley Orr. Players with quality are often overlooked in favour of hard workers in fact which is sad I think as a team needs a bit of everything.

I'm glad we have signed him until the end of the season. For me he a better goal scorer than Dele and will get around about 1 in 3 (should he score next game he will be on track for that) which is better than Dele's record no? We have a worker upfront in Maynard so we don't desperately need another- just an old head to help us and I think SJ is that man.

And even if you did think he is crap, he seems to have improved Maymard and Sproule in a short space of time which is fairly valuable in itself.

[Guest citynut54]

- could we sign Jack Dee or Frank Skinner for less?

Thought we wanted a comedian

[simonwheeler]

Must admit I said it a couple of weeks ago and I will say it again? "If" he is on allegedly between 8 and 12K a week then I would expect a lot more. Sorry whilst I am very appreciative of the recent upturn I personally cannot see ON THE PITCH (And thats where they earn the money - Not being a nice chap in the dressing room) what he has contributed? Sorry but we should be investing in the future and Stern is now nearing the end of his career?

Back to St.Marys at first possible opportunity for me.

[DaveF]

He's the main reason for Sproule and Maynard playing so well.

His touch and hold up play is fantastic and he's the perfect partner to mature Maynard.

2 goals in 8 isn't exactly bad when you compare him to our other strikers.

[Nogbad the Bad]

He's the main reason for Sproule and Maynard playing so well.

Didn't Stern play in a number of games when the whole team was playing badly/underperforming prior to the last couple?

Most of us believed it was only a matter of time before Maynard came good. Nothing more than coincidence as far as I'm concerned.

Nothing is proved with Ivan after 2 good games, certainly not that Stern is the catalyst for what might well be only a temporary improvement anyway.

[The Dolman Pragmatist]

Didn't Stern play in a number of games when the whole team was playing badly/underperforming prior to the last couple?

Most of us believed it was only a matter of time before Maynard came good. Nothing more than coincidence as far as I'm concerned.

Nothing is proved with Ivan after 2 good games, certainly not that Stern is the catalyst for what might well be only a temporary improvement anyway.

That's certainly not the view of Maynard himself, nor of Ivan Sproule, both of whom in interviews in the past two days have put their recent resurgence in form down to the role that Stern John is playing in the side. John may not have electric pace, but I find the suggestion that he is lazy quite wrong. He is a workhorse and offers us an alternative to Adebola. He is there because Johnson, sadly, ran out of patience with Brooker. Trundle can't possibly do what John does, he is a completely different sort of player, one that likes to run at players from deep or from wide positions. Trundle has no pace and little physical presence, but huge levels of skill. He can't get into the team at the moment because Maynard has hit form, not because Johnson is persisting with John.

[Guest pocketscrots]

i think one thing that stern does is get himself man marked (or certainly watched more) by opposition defenders. Most will have played against him when he was banging in the goals last season and will be wery of this. This results in freeing up nicky m to have the weeker defender or more space in and and around the box. - resulting in his recent improvement in form and confidence.

[Guest kristian444]

The Southampton chairman said at their AGM that the loan was always a season long one, I'm sure there was a get out though, anything else would be madness.

It couldn't have been a season long loan from day one because outside of the window, players can only be signed on 3-month 'emergency' loans. It's obvious that Johnson wanted him here for the entire season, but I just wanted to clear that up so people would stop with the bleedin' conspiracy theories.

[Red Zeppelin]

Maynard and John have both offered more to the team than any other striker this season, fact. Yes he looks lazy and could work harder, but when the ball is at his feet John delivers more end product than any of our other strikers except Maynard, as the figures show.

[Nogbad the Bad]

That's certainly not the view of Maynard himself, nor of Ivan Sproule, both of whom in interviews in the past two days have put their recent resurgence in form down to the role that Stern John is playing in the side.

That's the whole point of this thread - many of us feel Stern's influence, for some reason, seems to be being exaggerated.

John may not have electric pace,

I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

He is a workhorse and offers us an alternative to Adebola.

Like Akinde you mean?

Trundle can't possibly do what John does, he is a completely different sort of player, one that likes to run at players from deep or from wide positions.

No, that's just how City have played him, Trundle played up front when being successful at at Swansea.

Trundle has no pace and little physical presence, but huge levels of skill.

Whereas Stern has physical presence, no pace and less skill.

He can't get into the team at the moment because Maynard has hit form, not because Johnson is persisting with John.

I don't know why he can't get in the team, more particularly why he hasn't been given the long run of games Stern has had to try and forge a partnership with Maynard.

[Economou]

I love watching Trunds but I don't think GJ has forgiven him for that miss against Sheff Utd.

Stern John has two feet, good movement, a football brain, is good in the air and has said that most of his goals come in the second half of the season. If this is so it bodes well for the rest of the campaign !

[Donkeeebles]

A couple of days ago, I was willing to concede that GJ obviously knows best and perhaps the lazy player i'm seeing has a lot more to offer, but, things are rankling me.

The obvious thing is his lack of involvement. The guy won't move 3 yards towards the ball, he expects it right to his feet. He rarely jumps for a header, instantly giving away possession and you don't win fouls unless you leave the ground at any level. The ref needs to see a genuine challenge being stopped. On Sunday, he won one header; Maynard won three ffs !!

We have our Manager stating you won't see him move much on the pitch, but, he is great around the other lads and the dressing room. Remind you of anybody? Maybe a £1M striker lots of people, at least prior to this week (before the great Stern John love in started) wanted to see start ahead of Stern John.

Trundle has been publicly chastised by GJ for his lack of involvement. Stern it seems, has been given full approval for the same thing!! Trundle, for me, does put in the effort, however, his lack of pace/mobility hampers him as it does Stern. Why one rule for one ageing player and totally different for another?

Prior, to Maynard's recent emergence, many people have questioned GJ in the transfer market. I suggest his latest backing of Stern is due to the now apparent fact that he was here for the season irrespective of how he performed.

The majority on here were baying for SJ to go back to the Saints only last week, so what's changed so quickly?

Apparently his performance at Palarse helped, albeit, I don't see that as he once again didn't move and apart from one or two neat passes all we saw was a poor shot which should have been buried.

The other reason is he has been praised by Ivan and Sproule on the Official Spin site. Firstly, what are they going to say? "yeah, Stern's a lazy ####### so I don't really know why he plays". Get real; players will say what they are expected to say and what they are prompted to say or it is a 1-way ticket to the bench or reserves.

If you take Nicky; I have commented as others have, that it is obvious that the aforementioned Trundle has been very supportive of him; always encouraging, always going over to give a quick word or pat on the head (that's when he can actually get on the pitch). If anybody outwardly appears to be mentoring Maynard, it is LT. However, suddenly, although you see little talking on the pitch between the two, it is Stern that is the one helping the young lad out.

I would suggest, it is a mixture of all the experienced players helping out the young lads i.e Trundle, Adebola, Stern, Carey etc., however, in the week the club announces a relatively unsuccessful loan signing is here for the season; a loan signing that has been questioned by a vocal majority; all we hear is how great he has been.

Sorry, I don't buy it. His performances are not good enough and they are plenty of other players who are good around the dressing room. He should have gone back to the Saints.

The simple fact is we were lead to believe we actually had an option to release in January when we plainly did not, unless GJ was to back-track on a gents agreement that would reflect badly on the club.

Ivan and Nicky are doing their jobs. They would say the same if Trundle was due to leave in January and then decided to stay.

Orr will be another example. If he goes, some player or other will be on the main site stating we can cope, we will bring in a better player etc. If he stays, the same player will be stating how chuffed the squad is !!

Just for a second, forget GJ's approval of Stern not having to work hard for the team (even though he drops Trundle and Noble for that very reason). Forget Nicky and Ivan singing his praises and ask yourself; has he truly done enough to warrant large wages and a regular starting place?

A great post Neo. I agree with everything you say. I have to be honest i am surprised by the level of support he has received on this site. If you read the other Stern thread he has quite a bit of support. I have said what i have thought of his performances and arguments that have come back have ranged from he has a world class first touch....his international goals tally is superb despite playing against hardly anyone of any real quality.....he lays the ball off well.....and somebody said that if i cant see what he is bringing to the team then i must be watching a different game.

I would prefer Trundle!!!!!! ....but if Stern is here and is going to play then i will fully support him.....but at the moment apart from the reading game i am yet to be convinced.

[DavidNoble]

ive got mixed feelings on this one, improving the quality of sproule and co.

although not looking great himself!

thoughts?

[Donkeeebles]

Maynard and John have both offered more to the team than any other striker this season, fact. Yes he looks lazy and could work harder, but when the ball is at his feet John delivers more end product than any of our other strikers except Maynard, as the figures show.

I am not so sure that it is fact!!!!! Maynard yes but where are the facts to say that John has offered more than any other striker???? I would say it is more an opinion than a fact!!!!!! (which of course you are entitled to)Unless of course you have these figures that you mention.....i would be very interested to see them

[Maesknoll Red]

I love watching Trunds but I don't think GJ has forgiven him for that miss against Sheff Utd.

Stern John has two feet, good movement, a football brain, is good in the air and has said that most of his goals come in the second half of the season. If this is so it bodes well for the rest of the campaign !

This got me looking at his stats:

02/03 Season.

6 goals in the first half of the season (inc. one hat trick)

3 goals in the second half

2 Yellow cards

03/04 Season.

0 goals in the first half of the season (only played 9 games)

4 goals in the second half (played most games)

No yellow cards

04/05 Season.

3 goals in the first half of the season

9 goals in the second half

1 Yellow card

05/06 Season.

0 goals in the first half of the season

11 goals in the second half

5 Yellow cards (all between Sept and Jan)

06/07 Season.

5 goals in the first half of the season

5 goals in the second half

1 Yellow card

07/08 Season.

10 goals in the first half of the season (inc. one hat trick v Hull)

10 goals in the second half

1 Yellow card

1 Red card

The 04/05 & 05/06 seasons are the only ones that really back up the more goals in the second half of the season theory, as in 03/04 the figures are skewed by his lack of games.

He has picked up a surprisingly low number of cards through his career, clever and astute play? or not putting himself about enough?

[Economou]

Re. the goals, I was quoting from his World interview. But looking at his stats the last two seasons don't really back up his point !

Most forwards don't tend to pick up many bookings, don't think Lineker got too many.

[Guest redsrus]

I love watching Trunds but I don't think GJ has forgiven him for that miss against Sheff Utd.

Stern John has two feet, good movement, a football brain, is good in the air and has said that most of his goals come in the second half of the season. If this is so it bodes well for the rest of the campaign !

sorry mate, can`t let you get away with "good in the air".

Apart from the Tractor boys game I have seen all his games and a threat in the air he isn`t.

I have seen him miss 3/4 sitters in the air mind.

I won`t criticise him further because I have done so for the last 6 weeks and now I`m off message.

I hope your optimism is right.

[Donkeeebles]

This got me looking at his stats:

02/03 Season.

6 goals in the first half of the season (inc. one hat trick)

3 goals in the second half

2 Yellow cards

03/04 Season.

0 goals in the first half of the season (only played 9 games)

4 goals in the second half (played most games)

No yellow cards

04/05 Season.

3 goals in the first half of the season

9 goals in the second half

1 Yellow card

05/06 Season.

0 goals in the first half of the season

11 goals in the second half

5 Yellow cards (all between Sept and Jan)

06/07 Season.

5 goals in the first half of the season

5 goals in the second half

1 Yellow card

07/08 Season.

10 goals in the first half of the season (inc. one hat trick v Hull)

10 goals in the second half

1 Yellow card

1 Red card

The 04/05 & 05/06 seasons are the only ones that really back up the more goals in the second half of the season theory, as in 03/04 the figures are skewed by his lack of games.

He has picked up a surprisingly low number of cards through his career, clever and astute play? or not putting himself about enough?

Too be fair 20 goals in a season is good in any division.....if he can reapeat that sort of form i for one will gladly be eating my words

[Meh]

It couldn't have been a season long loan from day one because outside of the window, players can only be signed on 3-month 'emergency' loans. It's obvious that Johnson wanted him here for the entire season, but I just wanted to clear that up so people would stop with the bleedin' conspiracy theories.

What conspiracy theories?

[Meh]

His touch and hold up play is fantastic and he's the perfect partner to mature Maynard.

his touch is good, however, his lack of willingness to move means the number of touches are limited. I think his hold up play is shocking; he rarely wins a ball to hold it up.

2 goals in 8 isn't exactly bad when you compare him to our other strikers.

which other strikers? the ones who get a few minutes as sub when we are 1 or 2 down?

[RedM]

Exactly. We are hardly comparing like with like are we.

I've said on another thread that Trundle/Maynard could have worked if they were both given time on the pitch at the same time. I don't think we will ever know whether there was a partnership there or not now.

And Neo,for what it's worth, I find myself agreeing with every word you've said in this thread.

[Guest big red lee]

What a crap post

i find it discusting that pepoe are questioning johns ability to score goals

and i know iv only just singed up to the form but in the past i have never seen a post questionin deles ability

and when they do they get shot down and labled a dele basher

well call me a dele basher but i don't rate him imo stern is twice the player dele is john has class he maybe old but still has it

dele gets no way near the amount of goals he should do for a stricker where i can see john getting a hell of a lot more goals than dele

so realy i think pepole should get off john back and start questioning deles performances

sorry for the bad punc

[RedM]

What a crap post

i find it discusting that pepoe are questioning johns ability to score goals

and i know iv only just singed up to the form but in the past i have never seen a post questionin deles ability

and when they do they get shot down and labled a dele basher

well call me a dele basher but i don't rate him imo stern is twice the player dele is john has class he maybe old but still has it

dele gets no way near the amount of goals he should do for a stricker where i can see john getting a hell of a lot more goals than dele

so realy i think pepole should get off john back and start questioning deles performances

sorry for the bad punc

Two very different situations.

Dele was bought and paid for, he is our player. Stern john is on loan. Most people were under the impression the loan was due to finish in January and he had done (almost) nothing of note to warrant this loan to be extended. If Southampton can't afford, him he doesn't come cheap, would our money be more wisely spent elsewhere? Most people expected these 2 factors to be considered and he would be returning to Southampton, and what they do with him to save money isn't our problem.

I am happy the players feel that he has improved us so much, and long may it continue. But if it was up to me he wouldn't have been here this long, so lucky it isn't up to me , eh!

[Olé]

Really good and thoughtful post.

Just to add to the general approval of this post, you make an excellent point and cover all bases, I agree entirely. THIS is what a forum exists for, not the baseless rubbishing of the manager (or his son), but analytical deconstruction of the players we are investing our money in. Something we're most certainly doing with Stern John. This is an issue that needs challenging.

I've been pointing out that John is rubbish since he arrived and have stuck by that view week on week. Our only win in his first month was when he wasn't able to play. I think he's one of the worst signings we've made and I'm amazed we're extending the deal. He looks easy to play against, abysmal in the air, is clearly not a team player, and good touches once in a blue moon.

In the past week, perhaps buoyed by the wins, I've decided to give the benefit of the doubt to the comments of his teammates but Neo makes a good point about 'what would they say'. As it happens I think the single biggest reason Maynard has flourished recently is not what John has added but what he's taken away - a non-entity who makes Maynard feel more responsible.

I honestly think Maynard is doing more and is more inclined to shoot because he doesn't feel like there is someone else up front he needs to play in or share duties with. With John doing nothing, Maynard has got the message that this is his attack and his opportunity. More or less the role he had by default at Crewe. The problem with Trundle is he can't fill this role as he as some talent.

What amazes me is it doesn't take 10 grand a week to put a rubbish striker up front and convince Maynard the buck stops with him. We could have made the same point with a teenager - i.e. Plummer - and got the opportunity to develop a young player into the bargain. And before anyone points out that Plummer isn't going to hold the football up, well, Stern John isn't either is he.

I'll happily be proved wrong, and I do genuinely wonder what has got Ivan Sproule so involved recently, but I reckon if we sign any striker this month worth his salt, John will end up being a very well paid reserve player by Easter.

[WTFiGO!?!]

A couple of days ago, I was willing to concede that GJ obviously knows best and perhaps the lazy player i'm seeing has a lot more to offer, but, things are rankling me.

The obvious thing is his lack of involvement. The guy won't move 3 yards towards the ball, he expects it right to his feet. He rarely jumps for a header, instantly giving away possession and you don't win fouls unless you leave the ground at any level. The ref needs to see a genuine challenge being stopped. On Sunday, he won one header; Maynard won three ffs !!

We have our Manager stating you won't see him move much on the pitch, but, he is great around the other lads and the dressing room. Remind you of anybody? Maybe a £1M striker lots of people, at least prior to this week (before the great Stern John love in started) wanted to see start ahead of Stern John.

Trundle has been publicly chastised by GJ for his lack of involvement. Stern it seems, has been given full approval for the same thing!! Trundle, for me, does put in the effort, however, his lack of pace/mobility hampers him as it does Stern. Why one rule for one ageing player and totally different for another?

Prior, to Maynard's recent emergence, many people have questioned GJ in the transfer market. I suggest his latest backing of Stern is due to the now apparent fact that he was here for the season irrespective of how he performed.

The majority on here were baying for SJ to go back to the Saints only last week, so what's changed so quickly?

Apparently his performance at Palarse helped, albeit, I don't see that as he once again didn't move and apart from one or two neat passes all we saw was a poor shot which should have been buried.

The other reason is he has been praised by Ivan and Sproule on the Official Spin site. Firstly, what are they going to say? "yeah, Stern's a lazy ####### so I don't really know why he plays". Get real; players will say what they are expected to say and what they are prompted to say or it is a 1-way ticket to the bench or reserves.

If you take Nicky; I have commented as others have, that it is obvious that the aforementioned Trundle has been very supportive of him; always encouraging, always going over to give a quick word or pat on the head (that's when he can actually get on the pitch). If anybody outwardly appears to be mentoring Maynard, it is LT. However, suddenly, although you see little talking on the pitch between the two, it is Stern that is the one helping the young lad out.

I would suggest, it is a mixture of all the experienced players helping out the young lads i.e Trundle, Adebola, Stern, Carey etc., however, in the week the club announces a relatively unsuccessful loan signing is here for the season; a loan signing that has been questioned by a vocal majority; all we hear is how great he has been.

Sorry, I don't buy it. His performances are not good enough and they are plenty of other players who are good around the dressing room. He should have gone back to the Saints.

The simple fact is we were lead to believe we actually had an option to release in January when we plainly did not, unless GJ was to back-track on a gents agreement that would reflect badly on the club.

Ivan and Nicky are doing their jobs. They would say the same if Trundle was due to leave in January and then decided to stay.

Orr will be another example. If he goes, some player or other will be on the main site stating we can cope, we will bring in a better player etc. If he stays, the same player will be stating how chuffed the squad is !!

Just for a second, forget GJ's approval of Stern not having to work hard for the team (even though he drops Trundle and Noble for that very reason). Forget Nicky and Ivan singing his praises and ask yourself; has he truly done enough to warrant large wages and a regular starting place?

Firstly, are you RedTop in disguise?

Secondly, I've never quite got the hang of this punctuation, melarky, so please fill me in. Gramatatically, please.

thirdly, I appreciate you don't give a f#ck, which is call.

Fourthly, I've ran out of points, other that to say, my memory's shot xx

[WTFiGO!?!]

Fifthly, yes I do think I'm funny.

[bully]

Just to add to the general approval of this post, you make an excellent point and cover all bases, I agree entirely. THIS is what a forum exists for, not the baseless rubbishing of the manager (or his son), but analytical deconstruction of the players we are investing our money in. Something we're most certainly doing with Stern John. This is an issue that needs challenging.

I've been pointing out that John is rubbish since he arrived and have stuck by that view week on week. Our only win in his first month was when he wasn't able to play. I think he's one of the worst signings we've made and I'm amazed we're extending the deal. He looks easy to play against, abysmal in the air, is clearly not a team player, and good touches once in a blue moon.

What amazes me is it doesn't take 10 grand a week to put a rubbish striker up front and convince Maynard the buck stops with him. We could have made the same point with a teenager - i.e. Plummer - and got the opportunity to develop a young player into the bargain. And before anyone points out that Plummer isn't going to hold the football up, well, Stern John isn't either is he.

A question please - is any criticism of LJ or GJ baseless rubbishing? - most criticism of them I have seen has been thought out whether you agree with it or not.

I'm not personally in favour of keeping Stern John but quite a lot of his supporters will see your comments as baseless rubbishing.

[Olé]

A question please - is any criticism of LJ or GJ baseless rubbishing? - most criticism of them I have seen has been thought out whether you agree with it or not.

I'm not personally in favour of keeping Stern John but quite a lot of his supporters will see your comments as baseless rubbishing.

But the point is (and I think someone else made it) Stern John is on a loan which was supposed to end in January. Therefore we have the opportunity to debate a decision in the here and now. Perhaps not influence the club but at least set the tone in which the (odd) decision to extend his loan is made.

On the other hand, Lee Johnson is employed full time by Bristol City Football Club and so of course is Gary Johnson, so what is the point of going over and over opinions on either? They're both important ongoing parts of this club for the right reasons and no amount of squealing is going to change that.

'Baseless' was a generalisation but a lot of remarks about either have been knee-jerk short-term post match frustration. On the other hand short-term views of Stern John are not without basis because that is precisely what the guy was supposed to be - short term. This type of assessment of John is much more valid.

[bully]

On the other hand, Lee Johnson is employed full time by Bristol City Football Club and so of course is Gary Johnson, so what is the point of going over and over opinions on either? They're both important ongoing parts of this club for the right reasons and no amount of squealing is going to change that.

You believe Lee Johnson to be an important part of the club, which is your right of course, and a view shared by many.

Many however have a different view and apart from a small minority, their opinions are based upon a reasoned assessment, although you consider such to be 'squealing'.

If full time employees of the club are immune from criticism then the forum may as well close down - which it won't thankfully.

The Mods are of course on hand to deal with anything that goes beyond honest appraisal of a player of managers performance or abilities.

[Donkeeebles]

What a crap post

i find it discusting that pepoe are questioning johns ability to score goals

and i know iv only just singed up to the form but in the past i have never seen a post questionin deles ability

and when they do they get shot down and labled a dele basher

well call me a dele basher but i don't rate him imo stern is twice the player dele is john has class he maybe old but still has it

dele gets no way near the amount of goals he should do for a stricker where i can see john getting a hell of a lot more goals than dele

so realy i think pepole should get off john back and start questioning deles performances

sorry for the bad punc

Well i would say you post was crap mate!!!!!!!! Just because you don't agree with other peoples opinions it doesnt make it a crap post and just because people are having a go at John it doesnt make it disgusting that they are doing so. Lots of people have defended him on here saying like you they think he is quality and others obviously don't agree....thats the beauty of it. If we all thought the same we wouldnt have a site like this to post on!!!!!!

As for Dele posts i am sure there have been lots but like you i am new so couldnt say for sure........i for one though don't rate him either and am happy to say so although he has done pretty well in the last 2 games he has come on too be fair!!!

[Red Zeppelin]

For what it's worth...

[Tunley Legend]

For what it's worth...

Give GJ a ring - if you start providing these graphs for nothing, you'll save us a fortune on Prozone!!!

[Chappers]

I am no great fan of John, but I can see the sense of taking him on loan for the season. He is a reasonable striker at this level and will save us having to pay to bring in somebody else now, so that hopefully, we can pick up a free transfer/ good value plyer in the summer. I don't think that the squad is good enough to challenge for promotion this season, so it makes sense to ensure that we are not relegated, and then look at re-building in the summer. We are not a 'Big'Club at this level, we don't have unlimited resources, and are not in a position to buy success (Or do a Man City and buy failure!), so we will have to rely on shrewd signings, and players like John who come in short term to fill in until the right players are available.

BTW, I love the graphs. Not sure what they mean or prove, but they look good.

[Donkeeebles]

For what it's worth...

Not to sure what to make of it......looks like it shows Johns performances have been better than Dele's and Maynards have been better with John.

For me the issue isnt that though. Given the choice i would choose John over Dele because i really don't rate Dele. But that still doesnt mean that i think John is the partner we have been looking for to go with Maynard. I personally believe that maynards improvement is down to his gradual increase in confidence. It has been evident in the last 8-10 games. Some may say that is down to the influence of John......i am not convinced though!

IMO John still needs to contribute a lot more in games than he currently is!!!!

[Red Zeppelin]

Not to sure what to make of it......looks like it shows Johns performances have been better than Dele's and Maynards have been better with John.

Correct.

For me the issue isnt that though. Given the choice i would choose John over Dele because i really don't rate Dele. But that still doesnt mean that i think John is the partner we have been looking for to go with Maynard. I personally believe that maynards improvement is down to his gradual increase in confidence.

I agree, a large part of Maynard's boosted performances has simply been his confidence.

It has been evident in the last 8-10 games. Some may say that is down to the influence of John......i am not convinced though!

IMO John still needs to contribute a lot more in games than he currently is!!!!

John has been better than Adebola, and I think he is developing a great partnership with Maynard which has been one of the main reasons for our upturn in form. Although John could have scored more a couple goals than he has.

[Donkeeebles]

What i liked about John in the Reading game where i thought he was our best player was his willingness to shoot from pretty much anywhere. He tested Hannaman on a number of occasions from situations that were probably no more than half chances. Since then though he doesnt seem to have been doing that.

The biggest problem i have at the moment though is his work rate. If he had the same attitude as Maynard then i would be a lot happier with him but several times i just think he has been lazy ( i have already mentioned the Watford disallowed goal in another thread which i feel was inexcusable).

I have read that lazy accusation on here before towards John and then a list of players like Berbatov, Sheringham and even Cantana were were mentioned which for me is just rediculous. If john had anywhere near the class that they had then he could be as lazy as he liked!!!

[Donkeeebles]

For what it's worth...

Fairplay though Red Zepp.....you said the figures showed an improvement in the John and Maynard partnership from the Dele one and you posted those figures to back that up. Nice one

[miketh2nd]

I've been pointing out that John is rubbish since he arrived and have stuck by that view week on week. Our only win in his first month was when he wasn't able to play. I think he's one of the worst signings we've made and I'm amazed we're extending the deal. He looks easy to play against, abysmal in the air, is clearly not a team player, and good touches once in a blue moon.

I think you need to give him more of a chance as you saying you think he is rubbish from the word go. I've not been to all of the games of recent but I know from going to the palace game he provided a brilliant flick for maynard which he did great and scored. start of the season when we played Adebola we kept hoofing it up to him obvioulsy don't know if this was a tactc of GJ's ( hope not). Now John is in the team and we start playing on the floor wether this was because of Jon or not I don't know . But I think with time the partnership will only get better. we all know Dele says he would rather the ball at his feet but some reason they hoof it at him, so I'd rather see john playing if it means we play on the floor.

Although if we are buying a new striker and he is going to be starting I'd wonder why John was signed but even though he isn't a 100% player and won't do a fancy footwork he will provide a bit more time and space for maynard and I think it's also just relieved the pressure off him.