Ray White Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 From what I've seen so far of Styvar I think him and Maynard could form a good partnership together. His first touch is as good as Trundle's, he seems to hold up the ball well and he has good vision. I'm sure in terms of his purchase cost that he will prove to be a very shrewd investment. What I'd really like to see though is Trundle and him upfront together as I think that could be very exciting but i doubt it will ever happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Well, I'd disagree. Firstly, we haven't won in that formation. To make 433 effective you a powerful centre forward who dominates in the air and brings others into play, you need two exceptional wingers who can come in to the old inside forward role and score and are comfortable defending wide when needed, and you need two central midfielders comfortable getting into the box and scoring. We don't have any of that, we have a decent ball player for the left in McIndoe who doesn't defend much nor look a scoring threat so we play Maynard there who isn't really suited to it, Sproule who is quick but little else, and Adebola plays well one game in three or four. None of our other strikers fit so we're putting square pegs in round holes. IMO it does the opposite of give us width when you play it with a striker out left, the full backs can't get forward. I think the only players it gets the best out of are Lee Johnson who always looks more useful with an extra man in the middle and Skuse who otherwise doesn't get into the side. McIndoe and John haven't been playing in that formation we've not won a game playing it. Sproule had a great game against Portsmouth but didn't actually produce much end product and is still inconsistent as we saw yesterday, that won't change in either formation. 433 is just papering over the cracks IMO, we still need to address several large shortcomings in the squad if we want to compete. I'll happily bet that we dump 433 for a long time in a couple of games and go back to 442. Watford away and Palace at home not count? Fact is we've played better and looked more solid since we've switched formations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red man dan Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Watford away and Palace at home not count? Fact is we've played better and looked more solid since we've switched formations I was thinking the same, after reading a certain line that included 'we havent won in that formation' i stopped reading.Whats the point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Watford away and Palace at home not count? Fact is we've played better and looked more solid since we've switched formations We didn't really play 433 in those games, just McIndoe tucked in a bit and Sproule went forward a bit. Nothing like how we lined up against Portsmouth at home or yesterday for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I was thinking the same, after reading a certain line that included 'we havent won in that formation' i stopped reading.Whats the point? Usually the point of reading is to understand, but in some cases it is indeed a fruitless endeavour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 It appears, from listening to the fans around me, that if you don't play a stunner in the first 30 minutes of your first home league game on foreign soil you are undeniably s**t. "When has Johnson ever made a decent signing?" etc. etc. So lets just sell him now and cut our losses. It would make some of the fans happy. I think he can be suffering from the harder training and therefore has not yet showed his best. Besides that I think the discussion is a bit odd. Are we talking about a 28 year old or a 18 year old? Have him on the bench for a while and go slowly forward? When he is 29 he will show his potential? No way. Football is an international language. Good players find each other directly. GJ must have thought he should have a greater impact on our game - from the start. We only bring players in that are better than the ones we already got. So far he reminds me of Trundle (which is not a bad thing : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 We didn't really play 433 in those games, just McIndoe tucked in a bit and Sproule went forward a bit. Rough idea what a 4-4-3 tends to be Nothing like how we lined up against Portsmouth at home or yesterday for example. Simple not true, we have played 443 for a few games and played significantly better and won a couple. The players and Johnson have both commented on the new formation before Tuesday and most people would agree its been 443. Short-Medium term I'd rather we sign a creative CM with a good tackle and engine who can play with anyone in midfield, and a consistent RM. Long term Id like to see a proper attacking left winger. This will able to play with width in a 442 and not look weak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punnett Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I must say his first few games havent been great but he certainly needs more time, in saying that you would have thought he would know the off-side rule by now i think he's been caught off more than any other player at the club already! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red man dan Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Simple not true, we have played 443 for a few games and played significantly better and won a couple. The players and Johnson have both commented on the new formation before Tuesday and most people would agree its been 443. Well Sproule certainly appears to think we are playing 4-3-3(interview after the palace game), i'd like to think the players knew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Rough idea what a 4-4-3 tends to be Not really. Do you really think asking one winger to go forward a bit more is really all there is to it? McIndoe was tucked in all season on the left anyway. Simple not true, we have played 443 for a few games and played significantly better and won a couple. The players and Johnson have both commented on the new formation before Tuesday and most people would agree its been 443. Those two games we lined up with two wide players, two strikers and two central midfielders. Very different proposition to the way the team lined up against Portsmouth or Wolves. Short-Medium term I'd rather we sign a creative CM with a good tackle and engine who can play with anyone in midfield, and a consistent RM. Long term Id like to see a proper attacking left winger. This will able to play with width in a 442 and not look weak I think the central midfielder is an absolute must. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesus Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Its ironic that most of the people slating a player thats been here to weeks are the same people that think Trundle should be playing!!! So its ok for him not to be settled after a year and not score goals is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ashtonyate Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I don't think you will know if he can handle English football until next season give him the rest of this season and sub him at half time then bring on Adeobla,give him pre season training then you can make a judgement. I still think we have the old problem Maynard this new bloke all need to play with a big man along side them to put pressure on the back two it proved it yet again on Saturday they are too light weight to play without a big man. Also this is the problem bring in players who have not played at the level of football its a gamble to whether they will make the grade it proved it with Trundle if you want a proven player you have got to pay the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seend Red Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I personally don't think another striker was required and we need to strengthen midfield, If the Elliott Rumours are true we'll end up with Johnson and Skuse in the middle We need quality midfielders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punnett Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 I don't think you will know if he can handle English football until next season give him the rest of this season and sub him at half time then bring on Adeobla,give him pre season training then you can make a judgement. I still think we have the old problem Maynard this new bloke all need to play with a big man along side them to put pressure on the back two it proved it yet again on Saturday they are too light weight to play without a big man. Also this is the problem bring in players who have not played at the level of football its a gamble to whether they will make the grade it proved it with Trundle if you want a proven player you have got to pay the money. "Give him the rest of the season and sub him at half-time" I've never heard such rubbish in my life, i'm sorry but if he is going to play like he has in the last 2 games then you cant play him at all, he's been dire, stick him in the reserves and give him the pre-season and get him used to the English way of life ready for next season, we have plenty of other options in the meantime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ashtonyate Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 "Give him the rest of the season and sub him at half-time" I've never heard such rubbish in my life, i'm sorry but if he is going to play like he has in the last 2 games then you cant play him at all, he's been dire, stick him in the reserves and give him the pre-season and get him used to the English way of life ready for next season, we have plenty of other options in the meantime He will not learn anything about the CC in the reserves the standard is to low,I have given up on the play off,s this season and he needs to play in the CC so get him up to speed for next season if we don't play him in that way then |I fear its another 500k up the swanny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindjuicer Posted January 18, 2009 Report Share Posted January 18, 2009 Its ironic that most of the people slating a player thats been here to weeks are the same people that think Trundle should be playing!!! So its ok for him not to be settled after a year and not score goals is it? Ironic is more polite than I would put it. Who's that other striker we have who took over half a season to settle in even though he was already used to English football? The one that cost 3x more than Styvar... These forums are starting to tire me. Anyone got tips for coping with the less thoughtful posts? Wouldn't worry about Elliott. There's no way we're selling any midfielders without stupid money(silly plus 25%) in exchange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Its ironic that most of the people slating a player thats been here to weeks are the same people that think Trundle should be playing!!! So its ok for him not to be settled after a year and not score goals is it? For reasons unknown he has been chucked in at the deep end in high pressure games; something judging by his performances and substituion has failed; nothing against the guy as it is to early to tell, but a weaning in with late sub appearances would of been a better way to go. i.m.h.o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 You'd always hope a new forward would come into the side and look a goalscoring threat from day 1, so in that respect Styvar is a disappointment so far. Older fans though will remember what a poor start Paul Cheesley had to his City career and how he blossomed after he settled in. For weeks he looked completely hopeless and was ridiculed by many fans, then almost overnight become a confident pumped up colossus and one of the most feared strikers in the same division as City are now. We have to hope GJ has seen similar potential to improve in Styvar and allow him time to come to terms with this level of football and show his worth in a City shirt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
headhunter Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Older fans though will remember what a poor start Paul Cheesley had to his City career and how he blossomed after he settled in. For weeks he looked completely hopeless and was ridiculed by many fans, then almost overnight become a confident pumped up colossus and one of the most feared strikers in the same division as City are now. Things is Cheesley was 20 when he looked "hopeless" whereas Styvar is 29. Is he going to get better? Bit like Trundle really, aged 31 when he signed and a late entrant to league football. How many clubs were queing to sign him when we flashed the cash? Back to Styvar and, yes, it is perhaps to early to make a judgement but I have seen the two Pompey games and Saturday and find myself in the 'negative' camp. I referred to him as another "You Tube" signing. How many times did Pete Johnson see him play in a live game, and I don't just mean the one at Villa when he scored [which was on National TV anyway]? I am sure the guy was being touted around by an agent and viewing a collection of video clips is cheaper than a couple of flights to a destination that is not covered by Easy Jet! Ok, we had him on trial [fair enough as a means of assessing character] and he scored a hat trick in a reserve game - whoopy do! I had the same view on Carle - seen live in that Australia vs. Nigeria friendly at Craven Cottage but did Pete Johson see him live in Turkey [probably not as he hadn't played for two months hence his lack of match fitness when he joined]? That goal [when he ran from deep inside his own half] he scored on the You Tube clip which made me think wow as actually 18 months prior to his signing!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 I referred to him as another "You Tube" signing. How many times did Pete Johnson see him play in a live game, and I don't just mean the one at Villa when he scored [which was on National TV anyway]? I am sure the guy was being touted around by an agent and viewing a collection of video clips is cheaper than a couple of flights to a destination that is not covered by Easy Jet! Ok, we had him on trial [fair enough as a means of assessing character] and he scored a hat trick in a reserve game - whoopy do! Everything I've heard from and about Pete Johnson leads me to believe he is as thorough as it is possible to be given the time and budget constraints that are inevitable. It's all very well asking how many times he'd been to see Styvar play, the window of opportunity between identifying the need for a player and signing him can be quite small, especially when you consider the pressure applied by fans, some of whom will criticise the management as soon as a weakness is seen whilst also demanding that only the right player is signed. It must be almost impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nogbad the Bad Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Older fans though will remember what a poor start Paul Cheesley had to his City career and how he blossomed after he settled in. For weeks he looked completely hopeless and was ridiculed by many fans, then almost overnight become a confident pumped up colossus and one of the most feared strikers in the same division as City are now. Things is Cheesley was 20 when he looked "hopeless" whereas Styvar is 29. Is he going to get better? Bit like Trundle really, aged 31 when he signed and a late entrant to league football. How many clubs were queing to sign him when we flashed the cash? Back to Styvar and, yes, it is perhaps to early to make a judgement but I have seen the two Pompey games and Saturday and find myself in the 'negative' camp. I referred to him as another "You Tube" signing. How many times did Pete Johnson see him play in a live game, and I don't just mean the one at Villa when he scored [which was on National TV anyway]? I am sure the guy was being touted around by an agent and viewing a collection of video clips is cheaper than a couple of flights to a destination that is not covered by Easy Jet! Ok, we had him on trial [fair enough as a means of assessing character] and he scored a hat trick in a reserve game - whoopy do! I had the same view on Carle - seen live in that Australia vs. Nigeria friendly at Craven Cottage but did Pete Johson see him live in Turkey [probably not as he hadn't played for two months hence his lack of match fitness when he joined]? That goal [when he ran from deep inside his own half] he scored on the You Tube clip which made me think wow as actually 18 months prior to his signing!! Fair point about the age difference, I'm trying to look on the bright side and give Styvar the benefit of the doubt for now. My main point is that Cheese looked out of his depth initially and really struggled to impress and win over the fans for quite some time, only to become an all time hero who would of course have achieved so much more but for injury. You find yourself in the 'negative camp' regarding Styvar and I agree it's hard to see many positives so far. We can only hope he grows in confidence and stature in a similar way to Cheese because it's questionable whether City needed another forward at all, so he'd better turn out a good 'un. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Older fans though will remember what a poor start Paul Cheesley had to his City career and how he blossomed after he settled in. For weeks he looked completely hopeless and was ridiculed by many fans, then almost overnight become a confident pumped up colossus and one of the most feared strikers in the same division as City are now. Things is Cheesley was 20 when he looked "hopeless" whereas Styvar is 29. Is he going to get better? Bit like Trundle Its not about getting better - it's about adapting to the game and the pace. When you buy a 29 yr old, they should be the finished article. I'm sure towards the end of the season we'll see a better player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Maesknoll Red Posted January 19, 2009 Admin Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 We were in for him at the beginning of the season - the Villa game had no bearing on him coming here. They wouldn't sell at that time, but now they are out of European competion and his contract is up at seasons end the opportunity to get him here was taken. I would assume that a professional football scout and football league manager do more to research players that using youtube - that's for amateurs like you or I. The upturn in the whole way the club is run, the professionalism shown, the new training ground, the proposed new stadium and some fans can seriously post that GJ and his team scout on youtube, its not laughable, its downright insulting, to the management and scouting teams professional credibility. Styvar has (as its already been pointed out) arrived in a new country, joined a new team, played against Premier League opposition and the team who are clear at the top of our league, in the worst conditions I've seen a game played for a few years, to offer any judgement on those three appearances is likely to give a skewed picture. If in 10 games time, the consensus of opinion is "send him home", there maybe a case to question his suitability, but not before then. Had he come from the Prem or another CCC side, I think we could reasonably expect an instant impact, but that may not always be the case if a player is not match fit, Trundle still provokes divided opinion and he has had plenty of time to earn himself a regular starting place, lets at least give Styvar a chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Rollason Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 Anyone got tips for coping with the less thoughtful posts? ignore button, or, don't read the thread - it becomes apparant after a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redhyde Posted January 19, 2009 Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 That Vidic guy was a dud too in his first couple of games... We do need to give this guy time. It may turn out that indeed he is rubbish. But..geez players take time to adapt. But the people who think that can't read so we're wasting our time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted January 19, 2009 Admin Report Share Posted January 19, 2009 That Vidic guy was a dud too in his first couple of games... We do need to give this guy time. It may turn out that indeed he is rubbish. But..geez players take time to adapt. But the people who think that can't read so we're wasting our time. Evra was too. In fact I recall him being hauled off at half time in his debut because Man City were giving him the runaround. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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