David Noble

[albert2]

With regard to the 10-15 goal a season remark .

Noble is not alone in this respect but outside of Mcindoe on occasions I do not think any of our midfielders offer enough of a goal threat.

This may change with the recent move to 4-3-3 and Johnson has got into the box on a few occasions (unfortunately for headers!!!) The lack of goals from midfield puts additional pressure on strikers,makes life easier for opposition defenders but with the new system looks like changing.

The comment is my own opinion in that if we were to play a player of the Noble type ( not withstanding his seeming fitness/application/attitude issues) Then I would be expecting a 15 goal return, as I would from any attacking midfielder/wide player in a decent side.

Get 30-35 from forwards,2-3 midfioelders with 10-15 each and 10 in total from the back and you wouldnt go far wrong by the end of the season , Oh for another Bobby Hutchinson/Shelton/Walsh/Pritchard/Murray/Crawford (showing my age now)

[Nibor]

With regard to the 10-15 goal a season remark .

Noble is not alone in this respect but outside of Mcindoe on occasions I do not think any of our midfielders offer enough of a goal threat.

This may change with the recent move to 4-3-3 and Johnson has got into the box on a few occasions (unfortunately for headers!!!) The lack of goals from midfield puts additional pressure on strikers,makes life easier for opposition defenders but with the new system looks like changing.

The comment is my own opinion in that if we were to play a player of the Noble type ( not withstanding his seeming fitness/application/attitude issues) Then I would be expecting a 15 goal return, as I would from any attacking midfielder/wide player in a decent side.

Get 30-35 from forwards,2-3 midfioelders with 10-15 each and 10 in total from the back and you wouldnt go far wrong by the end of the season , Oh for another Bobby Hutchinson/Shelton/Walsh/Pritchard/Murray/Crawford (showing my age now)

Despite goals from midfield being mentioned quite frequently, central midfielders that score goals regularly are in fact a rarity.

The only regular players we've had to break one goal every ten starts in the last 30 years from central midfield are Gary Shelton and Jimmy Mann. Mann was a midfielder wasn't he?

Except for Noble who has scored 7 league goals in 62 league starts and Elliott who has 7 goals in 63 league starts. So we're actually as well off in that respect as we could possibly hope to be. (In fairness, Noble scored some from "in the hole" rather than central midfield and did have a fair number of cameo subs so that is probably a bit generous, but it's still higher than most).

Wingers score more than central midfielders generally - I think McIndoe does alright for goals and assists but Sproule needs more end product.

[Geoff65]

I think it would have been remarkable not to give Noble a new contract in the summer, all the others got contracts as it was our 4-5-1 and 4-4-1-1 formations and Noble coming in on and playing on the right side that gave us the success - so Noble a challenger for a midfield position, a player who can play the 1 in a 4-4-1-1 and a player who can also sit on the right side of midfield is a player who in my mind deserves a new contract based on versatility alone, he also scores crucial goals.

So giving him a contract commensurate to those around sounds right to me. As to the next part of the scenario is that GJ wants to play 4-4-2 and get away from the 4-5-1 which didnt provide us with enough goals. He learned from the start of this season that as a 4-4-2 the midfield is too light weight to play a 4-4-2 (Put any 3 from McIndoe, LJ, Noble,Williams and Sproule and you get a combined height of Adebola and Stern John and I would hesitate a guess that the weight wouldn't be too far out either).

Now if you want to play 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 then it's a matter of looking at the current personnel and seeing which of the current midfielders we have and play them, I think with Sproule's re-emergence of resembling a good right winger, 3 of the midfield picks it's self, McIndoe, Elliott and Sproule, leaving 1 space for LJ,Williams and Noble to fight for. We are not at training sessions, we assess what we see in front of us and we see mainly LJ and his performances re-affirm our views towards him (for me he does fine but the only midfielders I would keep are Elliott McIndoe and Sproule and I would get 3 replacements with physical strength and skills to replace Noble Williams and LJ).

I cant decide about Noble as I have too little information to form decided opinions on Noble in central midfield. I do have enough experience of watching him and others in league one and CCC to know that light weight midfielders have to have exceptional talent to make it at the top of CCC in a 4-4-2 and I don't believe we have anyone who meets that description, I thought Carle did but that's another story and he was less light weight than the others.

I don't think it was wrong to give him a contract in the summer as the whole of midfield did well last year in 5 man midfield and it was only by playing the 4-4-2 again that GJ has got to have realised that we need strength in our midfield to carry the two less well built wingers that he wants to play.

If we got an offer for Noble - would we take it - depends on how his attitude and how professional he is - if he is just doing enough in training sessions, not showing enough ambition and desire to get into the team, then sell him, if he's eager, keeps himself fit and still has a positive mental attitude then the versatility that he brings when we need it is still worth keeping around, but as yet we haven't needed to call on it in terms of playing the 1 in the 4-4-1-1, we called on Trundle and Williams to fill in for Sproule on the right and central midfield is a judgement call on whether LJ is tangibly better than Williams and Noble and for me, I don't see enough of those three on a weekly basis to form an opinion.

[City Madster]

Where did all this Noble has fitness problems come from, it seems it's been said so many time's on here it's now fact. What a pile of tosh!!

Noble trains with the rest of the squad on daily bases and I'm sure if he wasn't putting in the work GJ would of moved him on long before now and not offered him a contract in the summer.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out the real reason why he doesn't play more matches.

And that reason is............?

[Roe]

And that reason is............?

Have you ever seen the dog and his puppy on Tom and Jerry? Something tells me the line 'that's my boy' is important here..

[chinapig]

Have you ever seen the dog and his puppy on Tom and Jerry? Something tells me the line 'that's my boy' is important here..

And you, and those who share your opinion, would happily come out from behind your keyboards and say it to Gary's face no doubt.

[bully]

And you, and those who share your opinion, would happily come out from behind your keyboards and say it to Gary's face no doubt.

We're talking Gary Johnson not Lennox Lewis here aren't we?

Agree there's alot of keyboard warriors on this and every other site, but I don't doubt that there's plenty on here who wouldn't baulk at telling GJ what they thought if they felt it would make the slightest difference.

Fact is, it wouldn't - I think he is biased towards his boy but that isn't LJ's fault - In my opinion, we should ship out Noble if he isn't going to be played, and Gavin Williams whilst he's at it, and get someone in who is a feasible alternative to LJ should his form dip to unacceptable levels, or a need to play differently occur to GJ.

[chinapig]

We're talking Gary Johnson not Lennox Lewis here aren't we?

Agree there's alot of keyboard warriors on this and every other site, but I don't doubt that there's plenty on here who wouldn't baulk at telling GJ what they thought if they felt it would make the slightest difference.

Fact is, it wouldn't - I think he is biased towards his boy but that isn't LJ's fault - In my opinion, we should ship out Noble if he isn't going to be played, and Gavin Williams whilst he's at it, and get someone in who is a feasible alternative to LJ should his form dip to unacceptable levels, or a need to play differently occur to GJ.

A commendably charitable view. I confess I find to hard to share. It would be nice if it could be put to the test, perhaps at a shareholder's meeting or at the next open day. As far as I know it did not crop up at the most recent of these events, though I was only able to attend the latter. If it did, no doubt somebody will enlighten me. If it didn't I would be surprised as it is a view apparently strongly held by many.

[bully]

A commendably charitable view. I confess I find to hard to share. It would be nice if it could be put to the test, perhaps at a shareholder's meeting or at the next open day. As far as I know it did not crop up at the most recent of these events, though I was only able to attend the latter. If it did, no doubt somebody will enlighten me. If it didn't I would be surprised as it is a view apparently strongly held by many.

As I said yesterday on another thread, if LJ played regularly as he did against Portsmouth at the Gate, then 90% of the moaners would go away.

If that doesn't happen, then maybe it will be put to the test as you suggest - for all the good that will do.

GJ is the manager, the Chairman backs him 100% and what some fans think on any given subject, whether its a majority view or not is immaterial.

[seesaw]

Noble's been here for 3 and a half years. GJ has no excuses on that front. He should either have offered him a new contract and considered him for selection or let him go and by now he should know which he's going to do. It's unacceptable to give a player a new contract and then sit him in the stands with no intention of considering him because it's a complete waste of money that could be spent elsewhere.

He has been told to look for another club

[JMBCFC]

that quote from the gazza book just about sums it up for me, he is a plank but Ray Wilkins is a real football man. Having seen Noble with us for a few years I don't think many people will disagree with what is written - very talented, but lacking real determination to succeed. I appreciate different people have different levels of natural fitness but for him as a professional athlete (very much like Tommy D) to be barely able to cope with a 90 minute game isnt acceptable. We all remember the stunner at palace last season, but I seem to recall that Noble himself admitted he was too knackered to run anymore so had a dig.

I don't think anything is going to change with Nobes, so I think it would be best for all if he were to move on, and we get some one else in who can offer more of a blend of skill and workrate, and he might find a club who can inspire him further and find a system to incorporate him into. Its a shame though, cause I have some happy memories of noble playing football for us!

Nobes is a quality footballer... i would love to see him back in the team... if he didnt have that dig we may not have made it to wembley.. plymouth home? equalises with a beauty from outside the box.. this is our creative midfielder we have been looking for!!

David Noble get yourself fit!

[GrahamC]

He has been told to look for another club

God I hope so, if only for some of this rose tinted rubbish on someone whose contribution has very occasionally been stunning, but far more often has been negligible, to end.

Bet when he does move it isn't to a higher placed (or even a Championship) club, either.

[DavidNobleFan]

Johnson doesnt seem to rate him, but imo he is one of the best and most influencial midfielders we have

I agree. I love david noble hence my name. I think hes a great player. I'm annoyed about how he dosnt play much.

[pdgifford64]

A gifted player that has, it would seem, flattered to decieve through out his career. The real crime is that he has undoubted talent and yet there appears to be no medical injury that has dogged him throughout his career. So if we are talking about an inability to maintain a fitness level or to self-motivate generally then there`s no point blaming GJ or any of his previous managers whom appear to have come to the same conclusion.

And it is criminal when you think of the talent we`ve seen at the club that had no choice with their careers. I`ll start you off with a couple that spring to mind immediately, Kevin Mabbutt and Cheesley.

While we`re at it, accusing GJ of freezing him out to keep LJ in the team is just moronic, at best.

PDG

[Port Said Red]

Despite goals from midfield being mentioned quite frequently, central midfielders that score goals regularly are in fact a rarity.

The only regular players we've had to break one goal every ten starts in the last 30 years from central midfield are Gary Shelton and Jimmy Mann. Mann was a midfielder wasn't he?

It's nice for us to agree so much on one thread Nibor, I think this something that gets missed a lot, even when you look around the Prem the goal-scoring midfield players are hardly 10 a penny are they?

Jimmy Mann was definitely a midfield player, in fact I alway remember my dad saying how much better he would be if he would actually get in the penalty area, it always seemed to be a no-go zone for him! It could be argued that, in the formation we played in those days that Alan Walsh was a midfield player, he certainly played more wide left in both 4-4-2 and 4-3-3 formations. In which case I would argue that he could be added to your list. Also what about Scotty Murray?

[garlicbread]

I agree. I love david noble hence my name. I think hes a great player. I'm annoyed about how he dosnt play much.

Thanks for pointing that out DavidNobleFan.

[CiderHider]

I agree. I love david noble hence my name. I think hes a great player. I'm annoyed about how he dosnt play much.

Hi Dave

[bransonmo]

There are double standards in the selection process. Adebola and John rarely play a full game. The 3 substitutes are nearly always used by GJ. That says that 90 minutes is not a pre requisite for selection.

Why not have 60 minutes of Noble and 30 minutes of Williams/LJ/Skuse/Artus, or any other order of these players.

We are putting too much emphasis on this 90 minutes fitness theory. GJ by his own substitution policy has shown its irrelevent, he rarely plays all back, midfielders, strikers for 90 minutes.

I have mentioned before that I played at the same level as Nick Carle downunder, coached and managed there and the USA. I often met up with highly talented players who trained with the rest of the team, but undid their fitness with after hours drink & drugs. That may be the case with Noble, I am not in a position to judge.

I do know that I saw Noble play center midfield for us the year GJ & Noble signed on. League 1, yes, but he was a class above the rest. Whenever I have seen him since he has displayed class, ability and the will to win. I would sooner have 60-70 minutes of Noble than 90 minutes of any other center midfielder on our books. Thats no different than having 60-70 minutes of Adebola or John upfront, otherwise its a complete double standard of selection

[Nibor]

It's nice for us to agree so much on one thread Nibor, I think this something that gets missed a lot, even when you look around the Prem the goal-scoring midfield players are hardly 10 a penny are they?

Jimmy Mann was definitely a midfield player, in fact I alway remember my dad saying how much better he would be if he would actually get in the penalty area, it always seemed to be a no-go zone for him! It could be argued that, in the formation we played in those days that Alan Walsh was a midfield player, he certainly played more wide left in both 4-4-2 and 4-3-3 formations. In which case I would argue that he could be added to your list. Also what about Scotty Murray?

I was talking central midfield, wingers and wide players do get more goals and those two - Walshie and Murray - both bettered one in ten. But central midfielders that find the net frequently are basically called Steven, Frank or Paul and a bit unobtainable.

[chinapig]

I was talking central midfield, wingers and wide players do get more goals and those two - Walshie and Murray - both bettered one in ten. But central midfielders that find the net frequently are basically called Steven, Frank or Paul and a bit unobtainable.

A welcome touch of realism. We do have some fans it seems who think all-purpose, goal scoring midfielders grow on trees.

[mercury]

While we`re at it, accusing GJ of freezing him out to keep LJ in the team is just moronic, at best.

PDG

But then isn't your one sided opinion that everyone who accuses GJ of freezing him out of the team to keep LJ in the team is just moronic, just as moronic and unsupported?

What proof do you have that he isn't being biased? To say everyone with that opinion is a moron, without substantiating the statement, is just as moronic as those who accuse him of favouritism.

Perhaps LJ should move on and prove us all wrong and play for another top half Championship team, as with the Noble comments, don't see people knocking down the door with offers to sign him do we.

Rant over.

[Whale Eye Beef Hooked]

If it is a fitness thing and he is that good then why doesn't he go out on loan to see if he can build up his fitness like Trundle has.

I would assume (!) that Noble is quite happy sat in the stands picking up his wages. Only an assumption obviously

[Seend Red]

A gifted player that has, it would seem, flattered to decieve through out his career. The real crime is that he has undoubted talent and yet there appears to be no medical injury that has dogged him throughout his career. So if we are talking about an inability to maintain a fitness level or to self-motivate generally then there`s no point blaming GJ or any of his previous managers whom appear to have come to the same conclusion.

And it is criminal when you think of the talent we`ve seen at the club that had no choice with their careers. I`ll start you off with a couple that spring to mind immediately, Kevin Mabbutt and Cheesley.

While we`re at it, accusing GJ of freezing him out to keep LJ in the team is just moronic, at best.

PDG

The thing is in your eye's Gary can do no wrong and you just assume he's beyond reproach, the thought that the messiah Johnson could ever be guilty of human traits in your words is just.....Moronic! Fancy thinking a father may look through roses tinted glasses when judging his own flesh and blood.

If it true Noble's been told he has no future at Ashton Gate then that just further supports the arguement that Johnson doesn't want any one to challenge his boy for that spot. He buys strikers like there going out of fashion yet refuses to strengthen where it counts, the one's that make it happen in the engine room.

It's a farse and I'm disapointed so many City fans are prepared to let this happen right under thier noses. There is absolutely no other explanantion to why we are so thin on the ground for midfield play makers and genuine challengers to LJ role!.

How ever you look at it Johnson as make a mistake! If Noble does have issues and isn't fot for duty then why offer him a lengthy contract? If he was good enough for the contract then why does he never feature when his ability IMO is different class to Lee.

Palace away in the Play offs, Lee could only dream about scoring a goal like that!

[pdgifford64]

But then isn't your one sided opinion that everyone who accuses GJ of freezing him out of the team to keep LJ in the team is just moronic, just as moronic and unsupported?

What proof do you have that he isn't being biased? To say everyone with that opinion is a moron, without substantiating the statement, is just as moronic as those who accuse him of favouritism.

Perhaps LJ should move on and prove us all wrong and play for another top half Championship team, as with the Noble comments, don't see people knocking down the door with offers to sign him do we.

Rant over.

So you`re of the opinion that a professional CCC team manager would be allowed to show favouritism to his son, that a successful businessman, as chairman of said team, would allow this to continue. It just doesn`t happen. So LJ may not be the best thing since sliced bread but he`s certainly not anything as bad as some fans? make him out to be.

Thats as far as i`m going to go in a thread that concerns Noble.

PDG

[redcityman]

There are double standards in the selection process. Adebola and John rarely play a full game. The 3 substitutes are nearly always used by GJ. That says that 90 minutes is not a pre requisite for selection.

Why not have 60 minutes of Noble and 30 minutes of Williams/LJ/Skuse/Artus, or any other order of these players.

We are putting too much emphasis on this 90 minutes fitness theory. GJ by his own substitution policy has shown its irrelevent, he rarely plays all back, midfielders, strikers for 90 minutes.

I have mentioned before that I played at the same level as Nick Carle downunder, coached and managed there and the USA. I often met up with highly talented players who trained with the rest of the team, but undid their fitness with after hours drink & drugs. That may be the case with Noble, I am not in a position to judge.

I do know that I saw Noble play center midfield for us the year GJ & Noble signed on. League 1, yes, but he was a class above the rest. Whenever I have seen him since he has displayed class, ability and the will to win. I would sooner have 60-70 minutes of Noble than 90 minutes of any other center midfielder on our books. Thats no different than having 60-70 minutes of Adebola or John upfront, otherwise its a complete double standard of selection

I agree with you, but I can see where the 90 minute theory comes in, if we start with Noble and Gary feels he can only last 70 minutes that means that one substitute is already set aside for Noble, now imagine we have a couple of injuries early in the game, we then manage to get ourselves in front with a fair portion of the game remaining, suddenly were on the backfoot and defending our slim lead, does Gary bring on someone to beef up our defence knowing that Noble is (in some peoples oppinion) going to eventually run out of steam and need replacing, or carry on and hope the defence holds out until William's comes on for Noble.

The point i'm getting at it is, it restricts our substitution options,especially as we never know what eventuality will or will not happen.

I believe Gary wants a player to be able to last 90 mins purely because he cannot account for the unforeseen.

[Seend Red]

So you`re of the opinion that a professional CCC team manager would be allowed to show favouritism to his son, that a successful businessman, as chairman of said team, would allow this to continue. It just doesn`t happen. So LJ may not be the best thing since sliced bread but he`s certainly not anything as bad as some fans? make him out to be.

Thats as far as i`m going to go in a thread that concerns Noble.

PDG

I'm of the opinion that he is also a human being and a father so it's possible that it could cloud his judgement. Who knows what SL thinks, have you spoken to him?

Like you say though this is a thread about Noble and his lack of opportunity in the team so let's leave it there.

[chinapig]

The thing is in your eye's Gary can do no wrong and you just assume he's beyond reproach, the thought that the messiah Johnson could ever be guilty of human traits in your words is just.....Moronic! Fancy thinking a father may look through roses tinted glasses when judging his own flesh and blood.

If it true Noble's been told he has no future at Ashton Gate then that just further supports the arguement that Johnson doesn't want any one to challenge his boy for that spot. He buys strikers like there going out of fashion yet refuses to strengthen where it counts, the one's that make it happen in the engine room.

It's a farse and I'm disapointed so many City fans are prepared to let this happen right under thier noses. There is absolutely no other explanantion to why we are so thin on the ground for midfield play makers and genuine challengers to LJ role!.

The allegation of nepotism is just that, an allegation. If you have proof you should produce it. Alternatively put it directly to the manager. Repeating it endlessly on here does not make it true. It puzzles me that we cannot (rightly) make unsubstantiated claims about players life styles for instance on here but it is apparently fine to persistently make this accusation of near-corruption against a manager freely. One for the Mods though, not me. The fact is none of us knows what goes on behind the scenes, do not see the fitness, attitude or form of the players on a day to day basis and therefore are all equally ignorant. We either trust the manager or we do not. Clearly you and others do not, while others among us do. It is therefore an argument nobody can win by reference to any objective evidence and as a result rather pointless.

[pdgifford64]

The thing is in your eye's Gary can do no wrong and you just assume he's beyond reproach, the thought that the messiah Johnson could ever be guilty of human traits in your words is just.....Moronic! Fancy thinking a father may look through roses tinted glasses when judging his own flesh and blood.

If it true Noble's been told he has no future at Ashton Gate then that just further supports the arguement that Johnson doesn't want any one to challenge his boy for that spot. He buys strikers like there going out of fashion yet refuses to strengthen where it counts, the one's that make it happen in the engine room.

It's a farse and I'm disapointed so many City fans are prepared to let this happen right under thier noses. There is absolutely no other explanantion to why we are so thin on the ground for midfield play makers and genuine challengers to LJ role!.

How ever you look at it Johnson as make a mistake! If Noble does have issues and isn't fot for duty then why offer him a lengthy contract? If he was good enough for the contract then why does he never feature when his ability IMO is different class to Lee.

Palace away in the Play offs, Lee could only dream about scoring a goal like that!

I think you`ll find that i`m far from the opinion that GJ can do no wrong. I`ve never hesitated to criticise him if, IMO, that critiscism has been warranted.

Palace away in the play-offs, fantastic goal, a glimpse of what DN is capable of. Key phrase, a glimpse. It`s all he`s ever shown. While LJ may not be quite up to DN level, he does what he does week in, week out. For me, whenever Noble has had a chance he`s been anonymous for too much of the time he`s on the pitch. He`s a luxury that we cannot afford to carry.

GJ has given him a chance, as he gave the majority of the squad that did so well last season a chance. It would seem that DN just can`t get himself to the level that GJ wants to get in the team, and that, however you look at it, is what counts. There have, and still are, some aspects of GJ`s management that concerns me, but you can`t deny the fact that whatever he`s doing, the majority of the time he`s doing it right, for the good of BCFC.

Finally, if GJ is wrong about DN, then so is every other manager that had him at their club, because the story just keeps on being repeated.

PDG

[Nibor]

So you`re of the opinion that a professional CCC team manager would be allowed to show favouritism to his son, that a successful businessman, as chairman of said team, would allow this to continue. It just doesn`t happen.

Whilst I don't buy the nepotism idea in GJ's case (I just think he overrates LJ massively) it DOES happen.

There are numerous examples, and I'll start you off with Pulis and Coates.

There is no way on earth that you can explain a player who is worse than I am in Pulis Jnr getting a deal at a Championship club other than nepotism. And Coates is a successful businessman who let it happen.

[Seend Red]

The allegation of nepotism is just that, an allegation. If you have proof you should produce it. Alternatively put it directly to the manager. Repeating it endlessly on here does not make it true. It puzzles me that we cannot (rightly) make unsubstantiated claims about players life styles for instance on here but it is apparently fine to persistently make this accusation of near-corruption against a manager freely. One for the Mods though, not me.

The fact is none of us knows what goes on behind the scenes, do not see the fitness, attitude or form of the players on a day to day basis and therefore are all equally ignorant. We either trust the manager or we do not. Clearly you and others do not, while others among us do. It is therefore an argument nobody can win by reference to any objective evidence and as a result rather pointless.

Behave yourself will you! Corruption, nepotism, one for the mods! Could you be any more emotive and excitable! I've said none of that, you did, you're stirring by putting words in to my mouth and making mountain out of a mole hill.

I'm not being drawn in to this any further on thread about David Noble.

Whilst I don't buy the nepotism idea in GJ's case (I just think he overrates LJ massively) it DOES happen.

There are numerous examples, and I'll start you off with Pulis and Coates.

There is no way on earth that you can explain a player who is worse than I am in Pulis Jnr getting a deal at a Championship club other than nepotism. And Coates is a successful businessman who let it happen.

Nail on head!