PhatWill Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I don't find the loan thing strange because going out on loan to a division lower is a no win for a player confident he won't have a problem finding a club at this level. He goes out on loan and plays well and his critics can say he found his level. He goes out on loan and gets injured he might scupper a move. He goes out on loan and doesn't find form in the first two or three games and he's just proving the doubters right. So you're a Championship manager who may be interested in Noble and you're not going to find it strange that said player doesn't want to go out on loan, stay match fit and get some games under his belt before the summer? What are you going to base your assessment of the player on in the summer? A few appearances at the tail end of the season before and reserve matches?? Noble's decision not to go out on loan is idiotic and completely indefensible. The only bad outcome would be injury but that is surely a risk he has to take? Goes out on loan and plays well, he proves the critics wrong doesn't he? And in doing so firmly puts himself in the shop window. A bizarre decision from Noble, a player who I think could still perform for us at Championship level. But frankly I've lost a lot of respect for him now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Unless you've observed whatever GJ has that has made him think Noble should leave, which you haven't because you're just deferring to his judgement, you're basing your opinion on second hand info. You also have no idea what GJ isn't saying, he's hardly going to announce anything that does other than support his decision is he? I don't find the loan thing strange because going out on loan to a division lower is a no win for a player confident he won't have a problem finding a club at this level. He goes out on loan and plays well and his critics can say he found his level. He goes out on loan and gets injured he might scupper a move. He goes out on loan and doesn't find form in the first two or three games and he's just proving the doubters right. I don't think most people on this forum are stupid enough to confuse opinion and fact so I don't see the need to sprinkle "in my view" and "in my opinion" all over a post. Given GJ's record to date I believe he is allowed the luxury. If we were bottom - heading for League 1 then maybe it would be different. Going on loan to League 1 is not a no win situation for the player. He can get injured training (it happens a lot). He wants a move to a CCC club? I would suggest he stands more chance playing regularly and impressing at league 1 than playing in the reserves and not being picked for the first team by a manager who is well respected by his peers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinapig Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 It's actually a potentially libellous accusation, in my view. Certainly more serious than claiming a player was out on the piss. So I too would be interested to know if that's the accusation being made and, if so, why the poster isn't calling for the manager to be sacked. I've raised the question before as to why it's not ok to make accusations about a player's life style (and it's definitely not ok in my view) but ok to keep repeating accusations of nepotism. I got a hostile response so I can only conclude the majority of posters, and the Mods, do not regard it as potentially libellous. Water off a duck's back anyway to Gary no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 So you're a Championship manager who may be interested in Noble and you're not going to find it strange that said player doesn't want to go out on loan, stay match fit and get some games under his belt before the summer? What are you going to base your assessment of the player on in the summer? A few appearances at the tail end of the season before and reserve matches?? Noble's decision not to go out on loan is idiotic and completely indefensible. The only bad outcome would be injury but that is surely a risk he has to take? Goes out on loan and plays well, he proves the critics wrong doesn't he? And in doing so firmly puts himself in the shop window. A bizarre decision from Noble, a player who I think could still perform for us at Championship level. But frankly I've lost a lot of respect for him now. I think his reasoning is simply that he will hold out for a club he would actually like to move to instead of being loaned to one he has no intention of signing for in the summer. Going out on loan and playing well doesn't prove anything when it's in the division below because the critics will just dismiss that as they have done with Trundle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I've raised the question before as to why it's not ok to make accusations about a player's life style (and it's definitely not ok in my view) but ok to keep repeating accusations of nepotism. I got a hostile response so I can only conclude the majority of posters, and the Mods, do not regard it as potentially libellous. Water off a duck's back anyway to Gary no doubt. No, it's not ok - and everytime it's raised I for one question the poster. Unfortunately it then becomes about how often you go to games, how long you've been a fan or how close to Ashton Gate you live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I've raised the question before as to why it's not ok to make accusations about a player's life style (and it's definitely not ok in my view) but ok to keep repeating accusations of nepotism. I got a hostile response so I can only conclude the majority of posters, and the Mods, do not regard it as potentially libellous. Water off a duck's back anyway to Gary no doubt. Well, I am of the opinion that it is, but we often get accused of censorship if we clamp down on stuff like this, so it's a tricky one. Personally, I think it's a pathetic accusation that only makes the poster look stupid, and I'm sure Gary feels the same way. That doesn't make it acceptable though, in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Given GJ's record to date I believe he is allowed the luxury. If we were bottom - heading for League 1 then maybe it would be different. Going on loan to League 1 is not a no win situation for the player. He can get injured training (it happens a lot). He wants a move to a CCC club? I would suggest he stands more chance playing regularly and impressing at league 1 than playing in the reserves and not being picked for the first team by a manager who is well respected by his peers. I'll always want the manager to make better decisions and don't see that he got others right is a good reason not to examine ones I think he got wrong. I'd suggest he's confident that he will get a move to a Championship club and it's only BCFC standing in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I think his reasoning is simply that he will hold out for a club he would actually like to move to instead of being loaned to one he has no intention of signing for in the summer. Going out on loan and playing well doesn't prove anything when it's in the division below because the critics will just dismiss that as they have done with Trundle. It's not his critics he's trying to catch the eye of though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatWill Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I think his reasoning is simply that he will hold out for a club he would actually like to move to instead of being loaned to one he has no intention of signing for in the summer. Going out on loan and playing well doesn't prove anything when it's in the division below because the critics will just dismiss that as they have done with Trundle. So what's different with Trundle then? Does he find himself in a 'no win' situation having gone to Leeds? Or has he no further ambition to play at Championship level? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted February 5, 2009 Admin Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I'll always want the manager to make better decisions and don't see that he got others right is a good reason not to examine ones I think he got wrong. I'd suggest he's confident that he will get a move to a Championship club and it's only BCFC standing in the way. However you dress it up though you're basing your argument on supposition whilst simultaneously disregarding GJ's own opinion as little more than poppycock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donkeeebles Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Wolves did bid for Elliott (Just under £2m in installments) Portsmouth never interested. No enquiries about James Wilson Forest, Blackpool and a few others enquired about Adebola (blackpool made a loan offer which was laughed off) None of the Triallists were fit enough as they hadn't played for Months. Merino was good until he played against a half decent Plymouth side. Mentioned the Portugese centre back wasn't a very good defender, but good going forward. 8-10 clubs interested in Scott Murray on loan, all rejected as Murray is happy at City, Johnson explained again that he loves having him at the club. Leeds wanted Trundle until the end of the season which was rejected. Plummer needs to adapt to playing mans football. Noble has turned down loan moves to Southend and Brighton, sounded like he has been told he needs to go (don't think he will be offered a new contract) City made contact with Styvar before Villa game. JMW - No future at the club Artus needs a run of games, but has an issue with a Hamstring injury that keeps happening Iriekpen was in Bristol within 12 hours of City asking if he was interested (Turned down Leicester aswell as Hamilton) He also mentioned that he wasn't happy at the way Stern John was ironicly cheered off on Sat - John was upset by it. Johnson also said he was upset that it has happened to other players before. Cardiff never made any contact about Mcindoe. Thinks midfield is strong enough with Johnson, Williams, Elliot, Skuse, Mcindoe, Sproule, Murray etc. Admitted he knows Lee Johnson has a lot of critics. Think that about covers it all. Thanks for that info........i got rid of World in December.......wish i hadnt now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Stand Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 It's not his critics he's trying to catch the eye of though. Thats exactly what I was going to post. It matters not to Noble that a numpty like me thinks he's made an odd decision. However you'd think it would matter a lot that he could show what he could do to potential suitors?? Of course he may have a move lined up to a CCC club of his choice, hence he see's no need to go out to put himself in the shop window. If you listen to the recent McIndoe interview he talks about the immense frustration of being fit for a few weeks & not playing in the 1st 11. You can sense his frustration, yet what he has experienced for a few weeks, has pretty much been Noble's last 2 seasons. Potentially Noble is better than McIndoe but you need more than just natural talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 So what's different with Trundle then? Does he find himself in a 'no win' situation having gone to Leeds? Or has he no further ambition to play at Championship level? Trundle wants to move to Leeds permanently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I think his reasoning is simply that he will hold out for a club he would actually like to move to instead of being loaned to one he has no intention of signing for in the summer. Going out on loan and playing well doesn't prove anything when it's in the division below because the critics will just dismiss that as they have done with Trundle. It's not the critics that make the signing though - it's CCC managers and I would hope that most of them are able to see whether he can cut it at CCC level based on Laegue 1 performances. (Otherwise they would never sign anyone from the lower leagues). If he's not playing - they can't make that judgement - everything they know would be 2nd hand information (which even you don't like!!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 However you dress it up though you're basing your argument on supposition whilst simultaneously disregarding GJ's own opinion as little more than poppycock. I'm only guessing as to Noble's motives, that's clear. If GJ's opinion is that LJ contributed more in the middle of the midfield in the first half of this season than Noble would have then yes, that I do believe to be poppycock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Obi Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I think his reasoning is simply that he will hold out for a club he would actually like to move to instead of being loaned to one he has no intention of signing for in the summer. Going out on loan and playing well doesn't prove anything when it's in the division below because the critics will just dismiss that as they have done with Trundle. I disagree, he will end up going to a club that is willing to take a chance on a player with a poor fitness record....and this may not be a club he would like to move to. I really can't see many clubs coming in for him in the summer....and unless Palarse come in for him then i reckon it will be Div 1. If he wants to get in the side...then he needs to get fit....so a loan, playing at any level would be better than what he is doing presently. Gives me the impression he is happy just picking up his wages each week! Trundle and Noble are v simmilar - very skilled + poor workrate = Div 1. :noexpression: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 It's not the critics that make the signing though - it's CCC managers and I would hope that most of them are able to see whether he can cut it at CCC level based on Laegue 1 performances. (Otherwise they would never sign anyone from the lower leagues). If he's not playing - they can't make that judgement - everything they know would be 2nd hand information (which even you don't like!!) They've already seen his ability at this level in high profile games, that will get him interest enough to spend time training with them when he's out of contract. He doesn't need to go to league one to do it. I'd not say that Noble is the sort of player who has such an abiding love of the game that he'd go on loan just to play (I would say that about Trundle) but realistically why inconvenience himself if he's confident he will get what he wants? Particularly if as GJ seems to indicate it's the club blocking a loan to a Championship club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 They've already seen his ability at this level in high profile games, that will get him interest enough to spend time training with them when he's out of contract. He doesn't need to go to league one to do it. I'd not say that Noble is the sort of player who has such an abiding love of the game that he'd go on loan just to play (I would say that about Trundle) but realistically why inconvenience himself if he's confident he will get what he wants? Particularly if as GJ seems to indicate it's the club blocking a loan to a Championship club. His confidence, or otherwise, GJ's blocking - both 2nd hand info I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 His confidence, or otherwise, GJ's blocking - both 2nd hand info I'm afraid. Yes. And? I'm not making a judgement on it am I? I'm just speculating, not saying he's right. Your posts would be much more interesting if they had some substance and thoughtful opinion in occasionally instead of just little snipes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatWill Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Trundle wants to move to Leeds permanently. Must have missed that, it'll be a good move for him. If he does well there though and Leeds stay down he is still giving himself better chance of attracting Championship interest than Noble in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garlicbread Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Played very well in the vast majority of the games for which he's been selected in the middle or in the hole. Affected games from the bench in the fleeting cameo appearances he's been given. Looked like an all round class player who despite the unsupported hearsay and rumour on here seems to have a perfectly fine positive and committed attitude on the pitch. Perhaps you could elaborate on why you think he shouldn't get a chance in his preferred position even when the other players in that position are injured or very out of form? Johnson talked a lot about not taking players due to the fitness required to play in the CCC on sat/tues/sat/tues. We don't need Johnson to tell us he isnt fit enough for this level, he starts blowing after 40mins...We all know he is probably the most unfit out of all our first team squad. He has been given the opportunity to get fit and hasnt....therefore he is unsuitable for a run in the team. Noble is a great resource to have on the bench, but then it probably wouldnt justify the outlay,so much and he wants to play regularly. Tbh, if he likes bristol and has settled, then praps a move to the blue few might suit both parties. Bye bye Noble and thanks for the memories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted February 5, 2009 Admin Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I'm only guessing as to Noble's motives, that's clear. If GJ's opinion is that LJ contributed more in the middle of the midfield in the first half of this season than Noble would have then yes, that I do believe to be poppycock. Well that was certainly the case when Noble played in central midfield in L1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatWill Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Noble is a great resource to have on the bench, but then it probably wouldnt justify the outlay,so much and he wants to play regularly. Tbh, if he likes bristol and has settled, then praps a move to the blue few might suit both parties. Please no, Noble is far too talented for the gas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Johnson talked a lot about not taking players due to the fitness required to play in the CCC on sat/tues/sat/tues. We don't need Johnson to tell us he isnt fit enough for this level, he starts blowing after 40mins...We all know he is probably the most unfit out of all our first team squad. He has been given the opportunity to get fit and hasnt....therefore he is unsuitable for a run in the team. I would suggest that that is far from fact and closer to unsubstantiated b***ocks as indicated by Noble's ability to score in injury time at the end of the playoff game last season. He's not exactly over burdened with stamina but he can and has played 90 minutes in the middle and affected the game right the way through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkender78 Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Well someone turned a pc on for him in the summer, when he watched Meteb play that game for Ahly on the internet, "with growing rage" or something according to the BEP! My suspicion is Ashtonyate is GJ's alter ego. that was the funniest thing i have read on here for ages,made i p*ss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Yes. And? I'm not making a judgement on it am I? I'm just speculating, not saying he's right. Your posts would be much more interesting if they had some substance and thoughtful opinion in occasionally instead of just little snipes. Err, my original post was - it's just that you told me it was invalid because it was second hand info - like you I was speculating!! but, it seems it's ok for you to speculate but no-one else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Err, my original post was - it's just that you told me it was invalid because it was second hand info - like you I was speculating!! but, it seems it's ok for you to speculate but no-one else. No, it wasn't. Your original post was a snipe at another poster as were most of the others you've made. None of them contained any reasoning until I asked you explicitly and then it was clear that you're basing your assessment of the player's ability on the manager being right. If you can't tell the difference between making a qualitative judgement on second hand info and a bit of idle speculation perhaps that's why what you post seems so lacking in thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garlicbread Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 I would suggest that that is far from fact and closer to unsubstantiated b***ocks as indicated by Noble's ability to score in injury time at the end of the playoff game last season. He's not exactly over burdened with stamina but he can and has played 90 minutes in the middle and affected the game right the way through. How many games has Noble started and finished in the last couple of years? Not many. Would you lik to suggest that its because johnson doesnt rate him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 Well that was certainly the case when Noble played in central midfield in L1. Not really comparing apples and apples when one player is taking 90% of the set pieces and excused from any defensive duties IMO. I think DN has shown in the little opportunity he's had at this level that he is a far better player than LJ, if you disagree fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted February 5, 2009 Report Share Posted February 5, 2009 How many games has Noble started and finished in the last couple of years? Not many. Would you lik to suggest that its because johnson doesnt rate him? Hmm? It seems quite clear the manager doesn't rate him, he's willing to let him leave. I don't know why. I do know that when given a run of games Noble has been able to play until the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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