Qpr

[edson]

Youre right!..........and all seend was suggesting was why didnt he try to change it if it wasnt how he wanted us to play......a question to which you got all defensive and started to take it to the absolute extreme by making daft and sarcastic suggestions about why did Ferguson instruct his players to get sent off!!!!!!!!

(p.s actually i can forgive you the sarcasm because i am like that myself but i still think it was a poor example)

Seend has no evidence that he didn't try. Other than he wasn't jumping up and down on the sidelines.

The Rooney/Scholes example was just an extension of the suggestion that professional footballers should do what their manager tells them. I'm sure Alex Ferguson has told Rooney on several occasions that he needs to keep his cool.

Ronaldo was being a petulant arse throughout the first half, so I'm fairly certain the manager will have reminded them all that they were already down to 10 men and needed to keep their heads and not end up with any more players getting red carded for dissent. The point being, Rooney didn't keep his cool and ended up getting second use of the showers.

The Scholes one probably was a poor example, as that was just an instinctive reaction, but the Rooney one was less so.

[Donkeeebles]

I'll try one more time, for the hard of understanding.

As a coach, you prepare your team as best you can, you instruct them of the jobs you want them to do and the tactics you want them to employ.

Then, they go out on the pitch and you have to rely on them to do it. The better players do it more consistently, but don't do it every single time and no amount of jumping up and down and stamping your feet on the touchline will change things sometimes.

It's sport. Sometimes things go wrong, sometimes players don't perform and sometimes they don't do what you asked them to do. Try coaching sometime and see just how frustrating it is, when the team play in a way that is completely alien to you and they don't respond.

It happens to every coach, from Alex Ferguson down to the likes of me. To suggest that getting animated and telling them to play properly will work every time is, as I have said several times, simplistic. Sport isn't always like that, and I'm amazed it's such a hard concept to grasp.

Well obviously i am from the "hard of understanding" category because i am finding it hard to understand why you are intent on taking a perfectly reasonable question and comment and turning it around to defend your argument!!!!

Nobody said a manager is resposible for everything a player does so i don't know why you are trying to make out that they have!

You obviously think that a manager trying to change the tactics of his team during a game is totally ridiculous and cannot be done.....that surprises me!!!!!!

[Seend Red]

I'll try one more time, for the hard of understanding.

unneccecary and you've just insulted the majority involved in this thread.

As a coach, you prepare your team as best you can, you instruct them of the jobs you want them to do and the tactics you want them to employ.

Then, they go out on the pitch and you have to rely on them to do it. The better players do it more consistently, but don't do it every single time and no amount of jumping up and down and stamping your feet on the touchline will change things sometimes.

Better players are just that and play at a higher level but regardless of this professional is just that and irrelevant to not playing to instructions.

It's sport. Sometimes things go wrong, sometimes players don't perform and sometimes they don't do what you asked them to do. Try coaching sometime and see just how frustrating it is, when the team play in a way that is completely alien to you and they don't respond.

I understand form is temporary and sometimes player don't preform but again this is irrelevant to the point I'm making! To suggest that a team just adopt there own style of play during the match and ignore all the training and coaching is just plain nonsense and not true. Not to mention GJ just being passive on the touch line and not getting upset!

It happens to every coach, from Alex Ferguson down to the likes of me. To suggest that getting animated and telling them to play properly will work every time is, as I have said several times, simplistic. Sport isn't always like that, and I'm amazed it's such a hard concept to grasp.

No offense but I think you're comparing Gary and City to yourself and the team you manage far to much, City and the CCC is a million mile's away from your level and a completely different kettle of fish and as no place in this conversation.

Can I ask what age group you manage?

[PhatWill]

Have to say for once I agree with the Seend.

I'm still fuming this morning. There just seemed to be no urgency or belief in the performance. We HAD to win this game to keep our play off hopes alive against a team that really had nothing to play for.

We played a ridiculous amount of long ball to Dele and had no plan B. Liam Fontaine was the only player to come out with any credit and he was doing two players jobs as McCombe had an absolute stinker.

Set pieces were at times comical and they showed us how it's done for the first goal.

Why didn't Gary make changes sooner?? Why didn't Stern John come on? Elliott sooner??

Gary just stood there in the second half almost looking resigned to defeat. It seems we haven't learnt how to win these big games at the end of the season, just like last.

I'm realistic about our current position and stature in this league but it was just frustrating not to see us give it a proper go on Saturday...at times the game and atmosphere had the feel of one where there was nothing at stake. This was our biggest game of the season and just didn't turn up.

[NickJ]

Seems a bit odd that Alex Ferguson told Scholes and Rooney to get sent off and hand Liverpool a glimmer of hope in the title race, then.

I wouldn't advise he does that again in the remaining games.

Immature reply - Scholes and Rooney were moments of madness in a split second and not at all the same as ignoring instructions not to lump the ball forward.

[4eveREDDy]

Seend has no evidence that he didn't try. Other than he wasn't jumping up and down on the sidelines.

The Rooney/Scholes example was just an extension of the suggestion that professional footballers should do what their manager tells them. I'm sure Alex Ferguson has told Rooney on several occasions that he needs to keep his cool.

Ronaldo was being a petulant arse throughout the first half, so I'm fairly certain the manager will have reminded them all that they were already down to 10 men and needed to keep their heads and not end up with any more players getting red carded for dissent. The point being, Rooney didn't keep his cool and ended up getting second use of the showers.

The Scholes one probably was a poor example, as that was just an instinctive reaction, but the Rooney one was less so.

Well Edson even our manager could not change it as he quoted after the game.... i don't know what game they were playing today.. it was not one of mine... good news then we have a mob of players that just go out and ignore what they have been instructed to do and just do their own bloody thing, time for a few changes then me thinks.

[Donkeeebles]

Seend has no evidence that he didn't try. Other than he wasn't jumping up and down on the sidelines.

The Rooney/Scholes example was just an extension of the suggestion that professional footballers should do what their manager tells them. I'm sure Alex Ferguson has told Rooney on several occasions that he needs to keep his cool.

Ronaldo was being a petulant arse throughout the first half, so I'm fairly certain the manager will have reminded them all that they were already down to 10 men and needed to keep their heads and not end up with any more players getting red carded for dissent. The point being, Rooney didn't keep his cool and ended up getting second use of the showers.

The Scholes one probably was a poor example, as that was just an instinctive reaction, but the Rooney one was less so.

Youre right!

But thats not why i am taking issue with you on this. After Seend had rightly or wrongly said "why didnt he try to change the tactics" you started to make comments like oh its that easy isnt it/ you have obviously never coached and things like that. As i said i think you just took it to the extreme! IMO a tactical instruction from a manager like stop hoofing the ball is perfectly reasonable and not complicated at all. If our manager and our team are not capable of changing their style of play then i don't think they should be out on the pitch

[red man dan]

A managers preperation is largelt done during the build up to the game, tactics to face the forthcoming opposition are worked on in that build up. This is where a manager spends a great deal of time getting across the points he wants addressed when takin gon the opponents. It is largely 'too late' so to speak when the game begins if either a) the tatcics are not right or b)the players go out and do something totally different.

Of course there is the chance to change things. Tactically the formation can be changed, a certain player coming on can move the dynamics some what, BUT don't for one second think that the fundamentals of a game plan that is going wrong can be changed dramatically from a bit of shouting from the manager on the side line. If they are not doing what GJ expected or told them too, there it is not an easy task for him to change it from the sidelines. Players, can not absorb too much information from a manger on the touch line, they are playing a game of football). The half time talk is the opportunity to sit down and discuss at lenght what is going wrong or NOT going right, this is where you have the players attention(unlike during play), this is where players can also have their input and the plans can be gone over again or revised. However, it was 0-0 at half time this weekend and it sounds as if we were not playing to bad and could have been winning at this point, so did much need changing and indeed were the players at this point even deviating too much from what they were meant to?

If at this point the players went out in the second half, and things started to slip, it is largely(not completely) out of GJ's hands. If anything the bigger question is why did this happen NOT why did he not do anything about it. But i am sure this is what they will have been 'discussing' at training this morning. They most likely will be going over ALL the things GJ asks of his players for saturday, and then individually watching the game DVD and asked to report back on whether or not they believe they did those things for him, hammering home the point that they didnt if that, as it seems, is the case. GJ WILL address this, as he is a very good manager, but unfortunately it is a little navie to believe he can address it with too much success during the game. Players do what they do during a match, sometimes they don't as individuals do what they were tasked to, and subsequently if too many players don't do as they were asked then the team as a whole doesn't. We must also remember that the captain has a larger part to play in many respects on the impact of keeping the team focused and driven during a game, as he is the one out there on the pitch alongside and communicating with the others. We did NOT have Louis Carey on saturday, and this will have been a big loss, especially when things were started to go a bit pear shaped with regards to players keeping 'on their game'. Carey will know more than others, as Captain, if things aren't going right, and has more of an opportunity to get the point across from ON the pitch than GJ does from OFF it. Of course we had a captain on the weekend, but there is no way they will have been as adept or as alert to this as LC or as 'drilled' in captaining the side in order to change things.

GJ's task now is to find the reasons why players did 'their own thing' on the weekend and address the issue. During the game, unfortunately despite what some may believe, doing that is simply not possible.

Just to finish aswell, as this is important. It is not likely that this is a case of the players 'ignoring' GJ, it a case of communication during the game being lost through a number of reasons, the main one being the opposition that players are concentrating on at the time. Sometimes players will go out and do something differerent to what they have been asked and from what has been planned. Remember also that QPR have a big impact on how our players go about there game, if an opposition can force players into doing things they don't want to, or a have been instructed NOT to do, then hey presto you have a good chance of winning a game. Again, these are things that will be talked about at lengh this week, GJ has to find out WHY his players went out and did NOT do the things they were asked to.

[Seend Red]

Have to say for once I agree with the Seend.

Surely not! You feeling alright

[Donkeeebles]

A managers preperation is largelt done during the build up to the game, tactics to face the forthcoming opposition are worked on in that build up. This is where a manager spends a great deal of time getting across the points he wants addressed when takin gon the opponents. It is largely 'too late' so to speak when the game begins if either a) the tatcics are not right or b)the players go out and do something totally different.

Of course there is the chance to change things. Tactically the formation can be changed, a certain player coming on can move the dynamics some what, BUT don't for one second think that the fundamentals of a game plan that is going wrong can be changed dramatically from a bit of shouting from the manager on the side line. If they are not doing what GJ expected or told them too, there it is not an easy task for him to change it from the sidelines. Players, can not absorb too much information from a manger on the touch line, they are playing a game of football). The half time talk is the opportunity to sit down and discuss at lenght what is going wrong or NOT going right, this is where you have the players attention(unlike during play), this is where players can also have their input and the plans can be gone over again or revised. However, it was 0-0 at half time this weekend and it sounds as if we were not playing to bad and could have been winning at this point, so did much need changing and indeed were the players at this point even deviating too much from what they were meant to?

If at this point the players went out in the second half, and things started to slip, it is largely(not completely) out of GJ's hands. If anything the bigger question is why did this happen NOT why did he not do anything about it. But i am sure this is what they will have been 'discussing' at training this morning. They most likely will be going over ALL the things GJ asks of his players for saturday, and then individually watching the game DVD and asked to report back on whether or not they believe they did those things for him, hammering home the point that they didnt if that, as it seems, is the case. GJ WILL address this, as he is a very good manager, but unfortunately it is a little navie to believe he can address it with too much success during the game. Players do what they do during a match, sometimes they don't as individuals do what they were tasked to, and subsequently if too many players don't do as they were asked then the team as a whole doesn't. We must also remember that the captain has a larger part to play in many respects on the impact of keeping the team focused and driven during a game, as he is the one out there on the pitch alongside and communicating with the others. We did NOT have Louis Carey on saturday, and this will have been a big loss, especially when things were started to go a bit pear shaped with regards to players keeping 'on their game'. Carey will know more than others, as Captain, if things aren't going right, and has more of an opportunity to get the point across from ON the pitch than GJ does from OFF it. Of course we had a captain on the weekend, but there is no way they will have been as adept or as alert to this as LC or as 'drilled' in captaining the side in order to change things.

GJ's task now is to find the reasons why players did 'their own thing' on the weekend and address the issue. During the game, unfortunately despite what some may believe, doing that is simply not possible.

Just to finish aswell, as this is important. It is not likely that this is a case of the players 'ignoring' GJ, it a case of communication during the game being lost through a number of reasons, the main one being the opposition that players are concentrating on at the time. Remember also that QPR have a big impact on how our players go about there game, if an opposition can force players into doing things they don't want to, or a have been instructed NOT to do, then hey presto you have a good chance of winning a game. Again, these are things that will be talked about at lengh this week.

IMO thats rubbish! (thats only my opinion mind)

Those players were more than capable of changing from our normal style of play to hoofing the ball up the pitch so why cant they be capable of changing back to what we normally do if their manager tells them to????????

Managers make tactical changes throughout games. Change formations! Change styles of play! We have done it on a number of occasions as have every other team in the league! Players are capable of receiving instructions on the style of play and are capable of changing that style of play!

Like i say its only my opinion!!!!!!!

[Riaz]

Those players were more than capable of changing from our normal style of play to hoofing the ball up the pitch so why cant they be capable of changing back to what we normally do if their manager tells them to????????

Confidence..... or lack of!

[red man dan]

IMO thats rubbish! (thats only my opinion mind)

Those players were more than capable of changing from our normal style of play to hoofing the ball up the pitch so why cant they be capable of changing back to what we normally do if their manager tells them to????????

Managers make tactical changes throughout games. Change formations! Change styles of play! We have done it on a number of occasions as have every other team in the league! Players are capable of receiving instructions on the style of play and are capable of changing that style of play!

Like i say its only my opinion!!!!!!!

I'll say it AGAIN, there are 11 opposition players who are trying to stop(and on this occasion it would appear successfully) that exact thing from happening. QPR have it would appear forced us to change our game style, this was likely their aim, and in doing so that makes it very hard to just 'change back' especially if their were reasons (QPR) for why we had changed in the first place. I really do thing people see things too simply, it really isnt a case of us just playing our game and winning football matches, we are simply NOT good enough to do that, very few teams are. Teams try to stop the oppostition from playing their game, and when that happens it is quite hard to win a match.

[Donkeeebles]

Confidence..... or lack of!

If an individual player loses confidence then yes they may resort to doing that sort of thing!

Like i say i didnt see the game so i cant say for sure but it sounds like it was a tactic/ style of play that a number of players adopted. If all of a sudden 5 or 6 players playing in a team that are in the top half of the CCC suddenly suffered from a lack of confidence i would be very very surprised!

[Seend Red]

GJ's task now is to find the reasons why players did 'their own thing' on the weekend and address the issue. During the game, unfortunately despite what some may believe, doing that is simply not possible.

I do love these replys from the professors of the game who try and make out telling players not to kick it long was simply not an option. What the point of Gary being there if he can't 'effect' the game :noexpression:

Either way we have a potential problem:

A> Gary just didn't bother trying to stop the longball and let them get on with it. Why in such an important game?

B>Gary did have a word from the touchline but the players just completely ignored him. Why would they do that, especially when you consider that disaplice and loyality is just an important part of Gary's team.

Confidence..... or lack of!

Why? We're always being told that the dressing room is closely knit and the morale and banter is what get GJ teams playing well, the support was good the weather was nice, let's play.

Are you suggesting they bottled it?

[4eveREDDy]

I'll say it AGAIN, there are 11 opposition players who are trying to stop(and on this occasion it would appear successfully) that exact thing from happening. QPR have it would appear forced us to change our game style, this was likely their aim, and in doing so that makes it very hard to just 'change back'. Teams try to stop the oppostition from playing their game, and when that happens it is quite hard to win a match.

Fair enough, so that takes us right back to the original post by SR, we were rubbish, we allowed them to dictate the way the game was played, we were very poor, these same facts also stated by GJ and LC.

From the OS

The manager concluded: "On the day it was a poor day. The lads know that and I course [i've] told them that.

[Riaz]

I do love these replys from the professors of the game who try and make out telling players not to kick it long was simply not an option. What the point of Gary being there if he can't 'effect' the game :noexpression:

Either way we have a potential problem:

A> Gary just didn't bother trying to stop the longball and let them get on with it. Why in such an important game?

B>Gary did have a word from the touchline but the players just completely ignored him. Why would they do that, especially when you consider that disaplice and loyality is just an important part of Gary's team.

Why? We're always being told that the dressing room is closely knit and the morale and banter is what get GJ teams playing well, the support was good the weather was nice, let's play.

Are you suggesting they bottled it?

GJ would have OBVIOUSLY been shouting at the players to play it on the ground.... but when confidence is at a low then no amount of shouting is going to do anything.

Just because the dressing room is closely knit, does not mean the players are immune from losing their confidence. Seems like you expect the players to be Confident the whole time. Truth is confidence can come and go.... sometimes in the same game.

My personal opinion is that we are not quite good enough and thats what effecting the confidence at times. GJ probabaly realises we are a little short, but will stick with this squad until the end of the season - loans rarely work at this stage of the season.

[Donkeeebles]

I'll say it AGAIN, there are 11 opposition players who are trying to stop(and on this occasion it would appear successfully) that exact thing from happening. QPR have it would appear forced us to change our game style, this was likely their aim, and in doing so that makes it very hard to just 'change back'. Teams try to stop the oppostition from playing their game, and when that happens it is quite hard to win a match.

Say it AGAIN and AGAIN if you like but i still wont agree with you!

The original question was why didnt he (GJ)do something about our style of play changing to hoofing the ball as he put it! He obviously wasnt aware that this tactic was going to be used and wasnt happy about it. He said as much on the radio! Our players may have been as you say forced to resort to this because they felt that they were having no sucess playing our normal style but i believe that anyone who thinks that our players were not capable of changing back to playing the ball on the ground because their manager has instructed them to do so is mistaken!

These players are proffesionals. They train 5 days a week! They are capable of playing football on the ground or in the air. As Edson said we have no proof that GJ didnt tell the players to not hoof the ball. From what i have read though we kept this tactic up right to the end so to me that would suggest that he didnt instruct them to start playing it on the ground rather than in the air because if he had they would and could have done it!!!

[red man dan]

I do love these replys from the professors of the game who try and make out telling players not to kick it long was simply not an option. What the point of Gary being there if he can't 'effect' the game :noexpression:

Either way we have a potential problem:

A> Gary just didn't bother trying to stop the longball and let them get on with it. Why in such an important game?

B>Gary did have a word from the touchline but the players just completely ignored him. Why would they do that, especially when you consider that disaplice and loyality is just an important part of Gary's team.

Why? We're always being told that the dressing room is closely knit and the morale and banter is what get GJ teams playing well, the support was good the weather was nice, let's play.

Are you suggesting they bottled it?

I didnt say he couldn't 'tell' them, i am saying there are reaons for why this then didn't happen. Why did the players start to resort to long ball? Do you know? Playing in a high standard of football dictates that you as a player will at times do things that, if you watch the game afterwards, you would think..why was i doing that? why wasnt i doing this? It is the result of the oppostion affecting how you as an indivdual play your game, you may not even be aware of how your game is being effected, this is the opposition on the day being better than you, something City fans some times appear to be unable to deal with. There always has to be a blame game. Yes things have to be looked at, to stop this from happening again, to address why it wasnt seen and adapted to DURING the game, but don't for one second think QPR will have been giving the City players any time to think about it too much on saturday for them to change it too drastically at that point. Pressure during a game forces a player to 'DO' rather than 'think', hence possibly why the long ball game was creeping in. Pressue again, once this initial stage has been applied(the forcing of long ball) makes it hard for players to recognise the change and even harder for them to, if they are aware of it, address it and change back. QPR will have been doing everything they can to stop this and they did.

I am no proffessor of football, as you have mentioned, however i have played both in my youth and at later stages with players who have both become and have 'been' Proffesional footballers, and trained and played for proffesional coaches and managers who were once proffesional players. I can assure you there is a hell of alot more to football than the majority of players who play even a decent/good saturday standard of football get to see or experience.

[Seend Red]

GJ would have OBVIOUSLY been shouting at the players to play it on the ground.... but when confidence is at a low then no amount of shouting is going to do anything.

Just because the dressing room is closely knit, does not mean the players are immune from losing their confidence. Seems like you expect the players to be Confident the whole time. Truth is confidence can come and go.... sometimes in the same game.

My personal opinion is that we are not quite good enough and thats what effecting the confidence at times. GJ probabaly realises we are a little short, but will stick with this squad until the end of the season - loans rarely work at this stage of the season.

I don't believe for a second that the whole team suffered from a crisis of confidence! This wasn't a few players going missing this was the whole team as a whole playing in a style that Gary and myself didn't recognise. Why?

With our season now all but over I hope Gary come's out this week and explains what happened on Saturday to put this to bed as I still for the life of me understand what happened at Loftus Road......And I don't intend on pretendingt that I do.

I didnt say he couldn't 'tell' them, i am saying there are reaons for why this then didn't happen. Why did the players start to resort to long ball? Do you know?

Erm.... no. That's what I'm asking! Ultimately the only person who can clarify what happened is GJ. Like I said I hope he come's out and explains what happened.

I am no proffessor of football

That was a tougue in cheek comment please don't feel the need to explain yourself.

[Riaz]

I don't believe for a second that the whole team suffered from a crisis of confidence! This wasn't a few players going missing this was the whole team as a whole playing in a style that Gary and myself didn't recognise. Why?

With our season now all but over I hope Gary come's out this week and explains what happened on Saturday to put this to bed as I still for the life of me understand what happened at Loftus Road......And I don't intend on pretendingt that I do.

The WHOLE team played badly? surely we would of lost by alot more than 1 goal?

Two other factors that should be noted. When Dele's in the side and confidence is low, we have a tendency to hit it long, Obviously this is not dele's fault, but it seems to be a pattern this season. Secondly was the absence of Louis Carey may have been a factor?

[Donkeeebles]

I didnt say he couldn't 'tell' them, i am saying there are reaons for why this then didn't happen. Why did the players start to resort to long ball? Do you know? Playing in a high standard of football dictates that you as a player will at times do things that, if you watch the game afterwards, you would think..why was i doing that? why wasnt i doing this? It is the result of the oppostion affecting how you as an indivdual play your game, you may not even be aware of how your game is being effected, this is the opposition on the day being better than you, something City fans some times appear to be unable to deal with. There always has to be a blame game. Yes things have to be looked at, to stop this from happening again, to address why it wasnt seen and adapted to DURING the game, but don't for one second think QPR will have been giving the City players any time to think about it too much on saturday for them to change it too drastically at that point. Pressure during a game forces a player to 'DO' rather than 'think', hence possibly why the long ball game was creeping in. Pressue again, once this initial stage has been applied(the forcing of long ball) makes it hard for players to recognise the change and even harder for them to, if they are aware of it, address it and change back. QPR will have been doing everything they can to stop this and they did.

I am no proffessor of football, as you have mentioned, however i have played both in my youth and at later stages with players who have both become and have 'been' Proffesional footballers, and trained and played for proffesional coaches and managers who were once proffesional players. I can assure you there is a hell of alot more to football than the majority of players who play even a decent/good saturday standard of football get to see or experience.

Youre right that sometimes players may not be aware of what they are doing. For me thats the whole point of having a manager on the touchline though. To instruct them. If they are doing something they arent aware of then its GJ and KM job to make them aware of that.

That was the original question. A question which was met with a number of sarcastic comments! Unfairly IMO because i feel its a perfectly reasonable question considering the comments made on the radio from GJ.

I am not blaming anyone!!!! I wasnt there! I do still maintain though that the players that play for our club are more than capable of changing the style they are playing should the manager wish them to do so! If they unknowingly started to hoof it long and GJ wasnt happy about that then he should have told them so! If he did tell them and they werent capable of trying to play the ball on the ground then they shouldnt be on the pitch!

[Seend Red]

The WHOLE team played badly? surely we would of lost by alot more than 1 goal?

Two other factors that should be noted. When Dele's in the side and confidence is low, we have a tendency to hit it long, Obviously this is not dele's fault, but it seems to be a pattern this season. Secondly was the absence of Louis Carey may have been a factor?

I said the whole team resorted to long ball. No one was particularly bad- there was just no drive or urgency. Lacklustre if you like!

Louis is a miss, he's not the best footballer but he is a leader of men and a great organiser at the back.

[exiledinwatford]

There are going to be games when the tactics don't work or when the opposition or conditions stop them working. It's then that we need a bit of something special which none of the boys who played yesterday could deliver.

I am thinking that Trundle (as we all thought he would be), Murray (as he used to be), Noble (as he still might be) could have done something different to change the game. Like Gomez did for them - does anyone think we practise free kicks?

[cinker]

The WHOLE team played badly? surely we would of lost by alot more than 1 goal?

Two other factors that should be noted. When Dele's in the side and confidence is low, we have a tendency to hit it long, Obviously this is not dele's fault, but it seems to be a pattern this season. Secondly was the absence of Louis Carey may have been a factor?

Sorry. I don't buy this confidence thing. Professional players are also trained for mental toughness, or should be. if our players fold under pressure then there is only one solution...

[red man dan]

Erm.... no. That's what I'm asking! Ultimately the only person who can clarify what happened is GJ. Like I said I hope he come's out and explains what happened.

That was a tougue in cheek comment please don't feel the need to explain yourself.

Yes indeed, GJ will be clarifying that this week and most likely as we speak now. My point is, it is not something he could have clarified during the game on saturday or indeed changed. He as you say, appears to not know why the team was playing a game he didnt recognise. How then could he have changed something he didn't understand? players will at times do things that the mager doesnt ask for, even the best players/teams do occasioanly. GJ must now address that, he must find out why players were'nt doing as asked, and get a reaction from the players as to how they will stop that from happening again, how they will recognise it during a game and change it. GJ must first understand why it happened before he can stop it from happening again. Those players who recognise what happened this week will be the ones he trusts to stop it from happening again. Could it just be that QPR were better than us this weekend? Could it be the players know they were forced into playing a long ball game and were unable to change it? Could it be they admit this to GJ and look for ways of next time finding a different solution to being forced into the long ball? Or for ways to linit the damage of the long ball game, playing a mix of the two, slowing the game down, making it quicker. I have no idea, what the answer would have been or is, but expecting the manager to find one 'during' the game is in my opinion asking him to perform minor miracles.

A am not saying a manager can not impact things from the bench, of course they can, but there is a limit to that, and it appears this weekend was a case of that limit maybe being reached. The job is to find the solution to not let things slip so far in a game in the first place, so as to not deviate so far from a game plan that it can not be rectified 'in play'.

[red man dan]

Youre right that sometimes players may not be aware of what they are doing. For me thats the whole point of having a manager on the touchline though. To instruct them. If they are doing something they arent aware of then its GJ and KM job to make them aware of that.

That was the original question. A question which was met with a number of sarcastic comments! Unfairly IMO because i feel its a perfectly reasonable question considering the comments made on the radio from GJ.

I am not blaming anyone!!!! I wasnt there! I do still maintain though that the players that play for our club are more than capable of changing the style they are playing should the manager wish them to do so! If they unknowingly started to hoof it long and GJ wasnt happy about that then he should have told them so! If he did tell them and they werent capable of trying to play the ball on the ground then they shouldnt be on the pitch!

Where is your acceptance that QPR have a team on the pitch and the ability therefore, if playing well, to scupper all of the things you have suggested the team or GJ do?

I agree it is a fair question (the original one) and i am giving my opinion in reponse, i don't think i have been sarcastic at any point???

GJ is rightly not pleased with the way his team didnt play 'his' game, but he did not suggest i don't think, that he was angry in any way with regards to his players not listening to his instructions 'during' the game. He will be dissapointed on the whole that they fell off track. Now he needs assurance that it wont happen again, and will ask for players opinions of why they didnt do as planned prior to the match and indeed why they didnt recognise that they weren't doing it during the game. GJ may have tried to get this across to the players at the time, but again, it is not as simple as him shouting it from the touchline, the players aren't and quite rightly when they have a game to be playing, giving him their complete attention. They have a game against proffesional players to be concentrating on, this is the reason why it is very hard to pay great attention to what is going on OFF the pitch. I think this is the main point of the initial question. And to say 'if they weren't capable of trying to play it on the ground then they shouldn't be on the pitch' i think is a little harsh, and does no justice to QPR's efforts to stop it and counter our game.

[Donkeeebles]

Yes indeed, GJ will be clarifying that this week and most likely as we speak now. My point is, it is not something he could have clarified during the game on saturday or indeed changed. He as you say, appears to not know why the team was playing a game he didnt recognise. How then could he have changed something he didn't understand? players will at times do things that the mager doesnt ask for, even the best players/teams do occasioanly. GJ must now address that, he must find out why players were'nt doing as asked, and get a reaction from the players as to how they will stop that from happening again, how they will recognise it during a game and change it. GJ must first understand why it happened before he can stop it from happening again. Those players who recognise what happened this week will be the ones he trusts to stop it from happening again. Could it just be that QPR were better than us this weekend? Could it be the players know they were forced into playing a long ball game and were unable to change it? Could it be they admit this to GJ and look for ways of next time finding a different solution to being forced into the long ball? Or for ways to linit the damage of the long ball game, playing a mix of the two, slowing the game down, making it quicker. I have no idea, what the answer would have been or is, but expecting the manager to find one 'during' the game is in my opinion asking him to perform minor miracles.

A am not saying a manager can not impact things from the bench, of course they can, but there is a limit to that, and it appears this weekend was a case of that limit maybe being reached. The job is to find the solution to not let things slip so far in a game in the first place, so as to not deviate so far from a game plan that it can not be rectified 'in play'.

So an instruction of "Stop hoofing it long and play like we normally play" is beyond the limit of what a manager or a player is capable of doing. If that is indeed true then i find that very very disappointing.

Whilst you have writing a very well worded post above i personally don't think its anywhere near as complicated as you have made out.

IMO if he didnt want us to hoof the ball then he could have told the team so and they are intelligent and professional enough to be able to carry out those instructions!

[PhatWill]

QPR had a young, energetic side that closed play down quickly and this also contributed to our tendency to go long and play very direct.

Compare them to Reading a few weeks back who seemed content to give us large amounts of possession and we punished them for it.

We should've got to grips with Taarabt earlier on as he seemed to be running the show.

[Donkeeebles]

Where is your acceptance that QPR have a team on the pitch and the ability therefore, if playing well, to scupper all of the things you have suggested the team or GJ do?All the things i have suggested???? All i have suggested is that the team are capable of following instructions about how we play during the game!!!

I agree it is a fair question (the original one) and i am giving my opinion in reponse, i don't think i have been sarcastic at any point??? I didnt say you did. Edson did!

GJ is rightly not pleased with the way his team didnt play 'his' game, but he did not suggest i don't think, that he was angry in any way with regards to his players not listening to his instructions 'during' the game. He will be dissapointed on the whole that they fell off track. Now he needs assurance that it wont happen again, and will ask for players opinions of why they didnt do as planned prior to the match and indeed why they didnt recognise that they weren't doing it during the game. GJ may have tried to get this across to the players at the time, but again, it is not as simple as him shouting it from the touchline, the players aren't and quite rightly when they have a game to be playing, giving him their complete attention. They have a game against proffesional players to be concentrating on, this is the reason why it is very hard to pay great attention to what is going on OFF the pitch. I think this is the main point of the initial question. And to say 'if they weren't capable of trying to play it on the ground then they shouldn't be on the pitch' i think is a little harsh, and does no justice to QPR's efforts to stop it and counter our game.

He did however say that he couldnt understand why we started to play like that. You say its because QPR made us play like that. Although i didnt see the game i don't believe that to be the case and obviously GJ doesnt either because he cant understand it. If QPR were doing something that other teams have not done and stopped us from being able to play the ball on the ground i am confident that GJ would be able to spot it. He didnt spot anything because he couldnt understand it. He said so!

However my argument isnt whether he understood/didnt understand told them or didnt tell them! My argument is that Edson has implied(rather poorly i think) and you have stated (a lot more intelligently i will say) that our players are not capable of receiving instruction during the game and acting upon it!

I personally think that is rubbish!!!

[BCFC_Dan]

Don't forget also that if a player receives a bad pass from a team mate it gives him less time to control it in such a way that he can then play a good pass. Bad passes tend to build up in this way, especially amongst players of lower ability.

Add to that also the need for there to be players making runs into space to receive the ball. If nobody has made a run to receive a short pass and time is running out because the man with the ball is being closed down then he will tend to go for the safest option - sticking his foot through the ball and hoping for the best.

Long term this is Gary's responsibility to sort out. Short term there's not a lot he can do if the players on the pitch aren't doing what they should be.