Qpr

[Seend Red]

Am I alone in thinking the performance at QPR was shocking? I've seen posts saying we played okay

I actually don't think I can remember us playing quite so badly under Johnson?, First half was lacklustre and a non-event, in the second half where we just lumped the ball up to poor old Dele in an pointless attempt to feed off the scraps. Why were we playing longball? Gary is quoted in the Mail claiming he didn't know why they were lumping it in the first place and didn't recongnise what they were doing? Weird as he's the manager and the one person that should know what his team are doing!

Where was the quality? who was 'effecting' the game? such an important match too, I was just so disapointed at what I was subjected to.

Otherwise a cracking day. Shall'not be travelling away again this season as it's just such a waste of time and money when the manager or his team dosen't turn up.

Oh yeah and thanks for the token gesture when subbing Lee J with 3 minutes left! Marvin should of been introduced way before that! Bit of piss take throwing him on with so little time left.

[dezgimed]

No different to last year then...

[Seend Red]

No different to last year then...

I didn't go last year but I doubt if it was as poor as Saturday. What has happened to the football we used to play? If I wanted to watch that style of football I could go to any park in Bristol on a Saturday afternoon.

Simply not good enough and too many just didn't look bothered. Set pieces were an absolute disaster...again. Yet LJ and MM continue to take them! Why?

When the players started to lump it why didn't he stop them if that wasn't what he had instructed? He's right there on the touch line!

[Robbored]

I didn't go last year but I doubt if it was as poor as Saturday. What has happened to the football we used to play? If I wanted to watch that style of football I could go to any park in Bristol on a Saturday afternoon.

Simply not good enough and too many just didn't look bothered. Set pieces were an absolute disaster...again. Yet LJ and MM continue to take them! Why?

When the players started to lump it why didn't he stop them if that wasn't what he had instructed? He's right there on the touch line!

I was at the game and in the first half City were all over QPR and should have been 2-0 up. Both Sproule and Maynard blazed over with pretty much an open goal. Second half QPR were far more up for it but didn't really cause any problems untill the goal which came direct from a free kick.It was a second try because just a few moments earlier they had had a free kick in the same spot which Basso saved. McCombe gave away both free kicks.

But with City chasing the game QPR still didn't work Basso much and the equaliser was well deserved but as happened at Derby City conceded a very similair second goal from down the left wing.

It was only then with time running out that City resorted to the unproductive long ball - particularly McCombe who didn't have his best game in a City shirt.

A draw would have been a fair result imo and in no way were City poor.

[edson]

I didn't go last year but I doubt if it was as poor as Saturday. What has happened to the football we used to play? If I wanted to watch that style of football I could go to any park in Bristol on a Saturday afternoon.

Simply not good enough and too many just didn't look bothered. Set pieces were an absolute disaster...again. Yet LJ and MM continue to take them! Why?

When the players started to lump it why didn't he stop them if that wasn't what he had instructed? He's right there on the touch line!

Yes. He should also have shouted "SCORE MORE GOALS THAN THEY DO".

You've hit on a winning formula here. I'm going to use it next weekend. Thanks.

[DavidNoble]

Well we have never beaten QPR in the CCC since weve been in it.

[bristolcitysweden]

Am I alone in thinking the performance at QPR was shocking? I've seen posts saying we played okay

I actually don't think I can remember us playing quite so badly under Johnson?, First half was lacklustre and a non-event, in the second half where we just lumped the ball up to poor old Dele in an pointless attempt to feed off the scraps. Why were we playing longball? Gary is quoted in the Mail claiming he didn't know why they were lumping it in the first place and didn't recongnise what they were doing? Weird as he's the manager and the one person that should know what his team are doing!

Where was the quality? who was 'effecting' the game? such an important match too, I was just so disapointed at what I was subjected to.

Otherwise a cracking day. Shall'not be travelling away again this season as it's just such a waste of time and money when the manager or his team dosen't turn up.

Oh yeah and thanks for the token gesture when subbing Lee J with 3 minutes left! Marvin should of been introduced way before that! Bit of piss take throwing him on with so little time left.

A manager has nothing to do with what is happening on the pitch. He picks the team that's it. It's up to the players to perform.

The player who is supposed to kickstart the game is the playmaker who also should be the leader on the pitch.

I did not watch the game live but from the highlights Orr seemed to have a poor game. Did not take part in the offensive as he use to do and was passed on at least three occassions where he was to passive. Perhaps not a fair recension if you watched the game?

[exiledinwatford]

Wow - I've seen a lot worse than that! I can't think of any player who had a bad game - trouble is not enough players had a good game - they mostly did just OK which for the most part is not enough.

[Seend Red]

Yes. He should also have shouted "SCORE MORE GOALS THAN THEY DO".

You've hit on a winning formula here. I'm going to use it next weekend. Thanks.

Your welcome :noexpression:

Let's try again. Johnson has been quoted as saying he didn't know or understand why they started to lump it and play long ball. My point was why didn't he stop it and have a word from the touchline if this was not what he had instructed.

A fair point I think and one that doesn't deserve you replying such a sarcastic and childish mannor.

A manager has nothing to do with what is happening on the pitch.

It has everything to do with the manager, I appreciate he can't kick the ball but if the shape of the side isn't right or they are not doing as instructed the opposite is true- he is the only person in the postion to control and change it.

I fully understand the Johnson's are a protected species on here but to claim he only picks the team and the rest is up to the team is nonsence.

Wow - I've seen a lot worse than that! I can't think of any player who had a bad game

Under Johnson? Also Maynard was poor and for large sections of the game I actually forgot he was out there.

[edson]

Your welcome :noexpression:

Let's try again. Johnson has been quoted as saying he didn't know or understand why they started to lump it and play long ball. My point was why didn't he stop it and have a word from the touchline if this was not what he had instructed.

A fair point I think and one that doesn't deserve you replying such a sarcastic and childish mannor.

I can only assume you have never played or coached football at any level, to have such a simplistic view.

[Seend Red]

I can only assume you have never played or coached football at any level, to have such a simplistic view.

You assume wrong as Ive played for the last 20 years, never coached. Please humour me and elaborate as I don't follow.

[edson]

You assume wrong as Ive played for the last 20 years, never coached. Please humour me and elaborate as I don't follow.

And you always do precisely what the manager instructs you to do?

You must be a one-off.

[Seend Red]

And you always do precisely what the manager instructs you to do?

You must be a one-off.

Edson we're not talking about a player playing the odd long ball and mixing it up a bit, this is about us playing long EVERY time we got it as if it were the tactics for the day, are you suggesting the players just ignored Gary and did as they pleased? If thats the case maybe Gary or any manager for that matter is surplus to requirements!

Also surely Gary would of been spitting mad and jumping around the touch line like a man pocessed if he was just being ignored, but he wasn't and seem fairly calm which made his comments after the match seem strange and brings us back to my original point.

It would of only of taken a few harsh words to the back four to of stopped the constant barrage of kick and rush football put on offer.

[Robbored]

And you always do precisely what the manager instructs you to do?

You must be a one-off.

The guys that play for City are professional footballers - of course they should do what the manager tells them. Amatuer football is not exactly a fair comparison.

[edson]

The guys that play for City are professional footballers - of course they should do what the manager tells them. Amatuer football is not exactly a fair comparison.

So, you also think that all professional footballers go out every week and do exactly what their manager tells them to do?

And, if they don't, he just needs to shout at them a couple of times from the touchline and they soon will?

[Chivs]

So, you also think that all professional footballers go out every week and do exactly what their manager tells them to do?

And, if they don't, he just needs to shout at them a couple of times from the touchline and they soon will?

Well yes.

Isn't that why they are, err, professional?

[Fat Cigar]

I think there are a couple of things here. Firstly, the manager does what he can in training, before the match and then at half time. After that, it's all up to the players. Managers can and should change tactics if things aren't working, but still they're not the ones on the pitch.

There is however the very valid point that has been raised here about us 'hoofing' the ball upfield when things get desperate. This, along with our inability to cross the damn ball, and make use of set pieces, is our number one tactical problem, in my view. We abandon our passing game which serves us so well and resort to long balls. I'm not sure what Johnson could really do about that. It probably speaks more of our limitations as a team. And I guess why we've struggled to close games out, or hang on to draws away from home (if only we could swap some of our home draws for some away. Interesting that we've only drawn 3 away from home. I think that says quite a lot).

But, to be honest, we weren't that bad yesterday. I still maintain that for me the worst performance of the season was our 1-0 win at home to Norwich; the amount of times we gave the ball away that day! It was such a dire match. Norwich were shocking too.

Still folks, we have come an awful long way in just a few years. I know some people may think this point is getting a bit tiresome now but I think it's still pretty relevant. If this was our 10th season in the Championship I'd be getting rather fed up by now, but it's not. Let's enjoy the last six games and just see what happens. By the way, I think today's win for Sheff Utd was a really bad result for us. We're now 5 points behind teams with 1 and 2 games in hand over us still.

[foxymoxy]

Seeendred I totally agree with your comments. I didn't get to see the game but I did read the post match report and GJ's comments claiming he didn't know why they were lumping it in the first place and didn't recognise what they were doing?. Surely his role as a Manager on match day during the game is to ensure to the best of his ability that what has been communicated in the dressing room is carried out on the pitch. From his comments this clearly hasn't happened. I have every faith in Gary and I always have but those comments do concern me.

[sunningdalered]

IMO the root cause of our apparent desire to launch the ball long, and very centrally, on Sat was the narrowness of the pitch at QPR. Even though it is difficult to get a sensible perspective when you're virtually at eye-level with the pitch, and watching the game through the bl**dy goal net, it's obvious that the tightness of the pitch doesnt encourage expansive football - and neither side successfully exploited the wings on a regular basis (once or twice - notably for two of the three goals - some space opened up). If the full-backs are on their game, the whole thing is constricted to a very narrow, congested, midfield battle. On all of the occassions I have seen City play at QPR, we have never seem coped well with these different pitch conditions at QPR.

TBH, I thought QPR were worth the win on Sat. Fair play to any team that leaves three up when they're defending a corner - shows their attacking intent, and they were generally more creative than us. It's not that we played badly - certainly, individually, no one could accuse any of our lot of not giving it a proper go. We really missed Gavin's creativity though. Maybe, on a tight pitch like that, he would have made the difference for us. It took Ivan about 70 mins to start believing that he could do the full-back and whip balls in - god alone knows why he can't start with a bit more confidence - but probably never going to be his day.

Think, realistically, I witnessed the effective end of our season on Sat, there are just too many decent sides involved in the play-off chase for all of them to falter. If that's how it is, that's how it is - I'll still be satisfied that we have been in contention into April again, and the remaining games should be entertaining.

[edson]

Well yes.

Isn't that why they are, err, professional?

Seems a bit odd that Alex Ferguson told Scholes and Rooney to get sent off and hand Liverpool a glimmer of hope in the title race, then.

I wouldn't advise he does that again in the remaining games.

[tompo]

I was at the game and in the first half City were all over QPR and should have been 2-0 up. Both Sproule and Maynard blazed over with pretty much an open goal. Second half QPR were far more up for it but didn't really cause any problems untill the goal which came direct from a free kick.It was a second try because just a few moments earlier they had had a free kick in the same spot which Basso saved. McCombe gave away both free kicks.

But with City chasing the game QPR still didn't work Basso much and the equaliser was well deserved but as happened at Derby City conceded a very similair second goal from down the left wing.

It was only then with time running out that City resorted to the unproductive long ball - particularly McCombe who didn't have his best game in a City shirt.

A draw would have been a fair result imo and in no way were City poor.

Agree with pretty much of all of that.

We could and should have been two up at half time with Sproule and Maynard guilty of bad misses.

I don't think it was a foul for the free kick that led to the goal but this was one of several occasions when the ref was influenced by the crowd.

It was also probably the first time I've ever seen a player pick up an "injury" by being shouted at by another player. I couldn't believe it when McCombe told the QPR player who had won the free kick he was a cheat and then to see him rolling around holding his head.

One final point. How poor was the pitch? It was very poor and and hardly surprising that the football was not particularly good.

[balhambcfc]

My thoughts having been at the game:

- Tabaart on loan from Spurs was by far the best player on the field (with Mcindoe second)

- Ligertwood bossed the midfield for QPR

- If Ivan would play as a right winger i.e get down the wing and cross we would be a lot more effective, to my memory the only time he did this we scored

- It was a good entertaining day and a draw would have been fair, QPR were very poor in the first half and lacked confidence, we were equally as poor in the second half

- Nicky should have buried the chance in the first half!

[Robbored]

Seems a bit odd that Alex Ferguson told Scholes and Rooney to get sent off and hand Liverpool a glimmer of hope in the title race, then.

I wouldn't advise he does that again in the remaining games.

Not like you to resort to sarcastic retorts. :noexpression:

The point being that Johnson can make it clear to his players that the long ball is a low percentage tactic and that its not something that they should resort to regardless of the state of the game.Its not part of the game plan. If they continue to hoof the ball foward despite his instructions then he should do something about it. He has in the past dropped players who don't do what they were told. Some players do it instinctively especially when City are chasing the game and that needs to be addressed.

One thing is for sure - if Johnson started to show his displeasure to the players from the technical area they would soon stop doing it.

[edson]

Not like you to resort to sarcastic retorts. :noexpression:

The point being that Johnson can make it clear to his players that the long ball is a low percentage tactic and that its not something that they should resort to regardless of the state of the game.Its not part of the game plan. If they continue to hoof the ball foward despite his instructions then he should do something about it. He has in the past dropped players who don't do what they were told. Some players do it instinctively especially when City are chasing the game and that needs to be addressed.

One thing is for sure - if Johnson started to show his displeasure to the players from the technical area they would soon stop doing it.

It's just an extension of your view that professional footballers should do exactly what the manager tells them, and underlines what a simplistic view it is to say, 'If the players aren't doing what you told them to do, just shout at them and they will'.

It really isn't as simple as that, as players don't always perform, don't always listen and don't always respond to instructions given to them. If they did, every football result would be predictable, based on who has the better players.

[Donkeeebles]

Seems a bit odd that Alex Ferguson told Scholes and Rooney to get sent off and hand Liverpool a glimmer of hope in the title race, then.

I wouldn't advise he does that again in the remaining games.

didnt see the game so i cant comment on if we played long ball or not. I did however hear Johnson say we resorted to hoofing it long and he didnt know why!

Seendred made the original point of if this wasnt a tactic we were supposed to be deploying then why didnt johnson stop it. IMO thats a perfectly fair comment. Of course the manager is limited to what he can do on the touchline and the players have to take a certain ammount of responsibility but the tactics/formation and style of play is something the manager can have an influence on. From what Seend and GJ has said it wasnt just the odd long ball played up front it was an actual pattern that developed. Gj would be more than capable of comunicating to his players that he doesnt want to adopt that style of play for the rest of the match. If he cant do that then what the hell is the point in having a manger/coach on the touchline. They may as well just go and sit in the stand.

I have to be honest i find the example you have given above a bit pathetic. You are taking Seends original point to the extreme by trying to turn it round so that the manager has an influence on every single thing a player does on the pitch. Obviously that isnt the case and is IMO a poor argument to Seends original point.

Suggesting that GJ can change the style of play during a game isnt a simplistic view as you have stated above. Its a realistic one!!!!!

[edson]

didnt see the game so i cant comment on if we played long ball or not. I did however hear Johnson say we resorted to hoofing it long and he didnt know why!

Seendred made the original point of if this wasnt a tactic we were supposed to be deploying then why didnt johnson stop it. IMO thats a perfectly fair comment. Of course the manager is limited to what he can do on the touchline and the players have to take a certain ammount of responsibility but the tactics/formation and style of play is something the manager can have an influence on. From what Seend and GJ has said it wasnt just the odd long ball played up front it was an actual pattern that developed. Gj would be more than capable of comunicating to his players that he doesnt want to adopt that style of play for the rest of the match. If he cant do that then what the hell is the point in having a manger/coach on the touchline. They may as well just go and sit in the stand.

I have to be honest i find the example you have given above a bit pathetic. You are taking Seends original point to the extreme by trying to turn it round so that the manager has an influence on every single thing a player does on the pitch. Obviously that isnt the case and is IMO a poor argument to Seends original point.

Suggeting that GJ can change the style of play during a game isnt a simplistic view as you have stated above. Its a realistic one!!!!!

It's realistic to suggest he might try. It's simplistic to suppose it always works.

[4eveREDDy]

What a load of nonsense this is,, the truth is we pretty poor against QPR as stated by louis Carey on radio briz, also GJ stating... i don't know what game they were playing today....it was not one of mine, maybe the pressure is getting to the lads, interesting that LC also said that our corners, crosses, free kicks were very poor....nothing new there then Louis, bad performance , bad result.

[Seend Red]

It's just an extension of your view that professional footballers should do exactly what the manager tells them, and underlines what a simplistic view it is to say, 'If the players aren't doing what you told them to do, just shout at them and they will'.

It really isn't as simple as that, as players don't always perform, don't always listen and don't always respond to instructions given to them. If they did, every football result would be predictable, based on who has the better players.

What on earth are you talking about?

Firstly your sarcastic example of Scholes and Rooney is poor, both sending offs were due to instinctive reactions and lack of self discipline. I fail to see what that has to do with players completely ignoring the managers wishes in the style of play?

If they have completely ignored Gary shouldn't we be worried Edson? Has he lost the dressing room and why wasn't he more animated, has he given up? BTW I'm not suggesting he has lost it but if the players are doing there own thing as you suggest then surely we should be concerned!

I'm struggling to comprehend why your making this issue so damn complicated, it not rocket science or difficult for the manager to shout his instructions or rollock someone from the touchline.

[Donkeeebles]

It's realistic to suggest he might try. It's simplistic to suppose it always works.

Youre right!..........and all seend was suggesting was why didnt he try to change it if it wasnt how he wanted us to play......a question to which you got all defensive and started to take it to the absolute extreme by making daft and sarcastic suggestions about why did Ferguson instruct his players to get sent off!!!!!!!!

(p.s actually i can forgive you the sarcasm because i am like that myself but i still think it was a poor example)

[edson]

What on earth are you talking about?

Firstly your sarcastic example of Scholes and Rooney is poor, both sending offs were due to instinctive reactions and lack of self discipline. I fail to see what that has to do with players completely ignoring the managers wishes in the style of play?

If they have completely ignored Gary shouldn't we be worried Edson? Has he lost the dressing room and why wasn't he more animated, has he given up? BTW I'm not suggesting he has lost it but if the players are doing there own thing as you suggest then surely we should be concerned!

I'm struggling to comprehend why your making this issue so damn complicated, it not rocket science or difficult for the manager to shout his instructions or rollock someone from the touchline.

I'll try one more time, for the hard of understanding.

As a coach, you prepare your team as best you can, you instruct them of the jobs you want them to do and the tactics you want them to employ.

Then, they go out on the pitch and you have to rely on them to do it. The better players do it more consistently, but don't do it every single time and no amount of jumping up and down and stamping your feet on the touchline will change things sometimes.

It's sport. Sometimes things go wrong, sometimes players don't perform and sometimes they don't do what you asked them to do. Try coaching sometime and see just how frustrating it is, when the team play in a way that is completely alien to you and they don't respond.

It happens to every coach, from Alex Ferguson down to the likes of me. To suggest that getting animated and telling them to play properly will work every time is, as I have said several times, simplistic. Sport isn't always like that, and I'm amazed it's such a hard concept to grasp.