BRIAN WILSON Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Just watched the ITV Documentary and PHEW great great stuff. For all footy fans what an education of a footballing genius , and an example of what can be achieved on a relative shoe-string for, not one but two , unfashionable Clubs (ie Derby and Forest)........Lets all hope it can happen again , especially in these times of over inflated wages etc...... Again , a great show and brought a tear to the eye of a fan of footy as it was / still should be.... PS Shame they mentioned that rather famous Rovers win at Brighton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse With No Name Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Just watched the ITV Documentary and PHEW great great stuff. For all footy fans what an education of a footballing genius , and an example of what can be achieved on a relative shoe-string for, not one but two , unfashionable Clubs (ie Derby and Forest)........Lets all hope it can happen again , especially in these times of over inflated wages etc...... Again , a great show and brought a tear to the eye of a fan of footy as it was / still should be.... PS Shame they mentioned that rather famous Rovers win at Brighton Hear hear to all that. But as was mentioned in the film, it cannot, and will not ever happen again to a non fashionable club. I think Blackburn winning the Premier League was the last time a club of that size will ever come close to winning the League, and as for the Champions League well...... But yes, Clough was a total legend, and very little was mentioned of his views on discipline towards referees, the like of which will probably never be seen again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Just watched the ITV Documentary and PHEW great great stuff. For all footy fans what an education of a footballing genius , and an example of what can be achieved on a relative shoe-string for, not one but two , unfashionable Clubs (ie Derby and Forest)........Lets all hope it can happen again , especially in these times of over inflated wages etc...... Again , a great show and brought a tear to the eye of a fan of footy as it was / still should be.... PS Shame they mentioned that rather famous Rovers win at Brighton Brian Clough was a truely great manager but he became well and truely unstuck at Leeds United as well as at Brighton. Brian Clough was always at his best with Peter Taylor as his assistant. Without Peter Taylor he often struggled. For the greatest managers that England's ever produced I'd consider the likes of Herbert Chapman, Alf Ramsay, Don Revie, Bob Paisley and even Ron Saunders to be as good if not better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider head Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Superb doc and a great manager, i liked the bit where peter shilton said clough paid 1million for trevor francis (striker) and played him on the wing, sounds like a manager we all know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markman Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 I wonder what your views (our views) are on the current Damned United Film? Clough's family are not at all happy with it or the portrayal of Brian - for me that is reason enough not to go and see it - but otherwise I would have gone cos I thought he was a Legend - but if his own family are against it I feel I have to "boycott" it - anyone feel the same way or will you go look for yourselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 I wonder what your views (our views) are on the current Damned United Film? Clough's family are not at all happy with it or the portrayal of Brian - for me that is reason enough not to go and see it - but otherwise I would have gone cos I thought he was a Legend - but if his own family are against it I feel I have to "boycott" it - anyone feel the same way or will you go look for yourselves? I'll watch the film, whoever took over from Don Revie at Leeds was going to be in for some stick from the type of firey players that were at Leeds at that time. I reckon a documentary film should be made as to why Brian Clough and Peter Taylor were not given the England job in 1980. A lot of questions on that England issue need asking because they were quite capable of winning the World Cup for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 I wonder what your views (our views) are on the current Damned United Film? Clough's family are not at all happy with it or the portrayal of Brian - for me that is reason enough not to go and see it - but otherwise I would have gone cos I thought he was a Legend - but if his own family are against it I feel I have to "boycott" it - anyone feel the same way or will you go look for yourselves? Isn't their gripe more to do with the book than the film? They've said they won't see the film, but I read somewhere that friends who have seen it say it potrays Clough in a much better light than the book. Cracking documentary, the Malmo & Hamburg games took me back to being 6 or 7 with English clubs ruling Europe - happy days! Still want Forest to go down though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Anyone know if its on again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 I wonder what your views (our views) are on the current Damned United Film? Clough's family are not at all happy with it or the portrayal of Brian - for me that is reason enough not to go and see it - but otherwise I would have gone cos I thought he was a Legend - but if his own family are against it I feel I have to "boycott" it - anyone feel the same way or will you go look for yourselves? I doubt I'll go and see the film, as the bloke playing him is a bit unconvincing and I think I'd spend most of my time being annoyed by his attempts to mimic Clough. I've read 'The Damned United' though and it is a good read. But for a better insight into Brian Clough, I'd recommend 'Provided You Don't Kiss Me', which is a much closer account of the man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Cigar Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 I wonder what your views (our views) are on the current Damned United Film? Clough's family are not at all happy with it or the portrayal of Brian - for me that is reason enough not to go and see it - but otherwise I would have gone cos I thought he was a Legend - but if his own family are against it I feel I have to "boycott" it - anyone feel the same way or will you go look for yourselves? I've just read the book and great fun it is too. It flicks between the lead up and then his actual time managing Derby, with his time in charge at Leeds. I've listened to Michael Sheen (who plays Clough in the film) a few times discussing the film, and Clough's family's refusal to see it and their condemnation of the book when it came out. To be honest it sounds like a lot of the anger from his family obviously comes from a portrayal of a man (their husband/father) they don't recognise. Or maybe more accurately, don't want to. Sheen was saying that critics said that Clough never drank, which almost anybody in the game who knew him know the complete opposite was the case. There are meant to be quite a few inaccuracies in the film, but this is probably a lot to do with artistic licence. I'll be going to see it. It is fascinating how much he hated Leeds and how he believed everything they ever won was do so by "cheating" (dirty tactics on the field: diving, deliberate fouling of opponents, pressurising the refs), all encouraged by Revie. Clough firmly believed winning fairly and in style. Whatever people think of the book or film, the man really can be labelled a footballing genius; a word liberally used in modern society but rarely applied correctly. I'd recommend the book to anyone. I'm also going to read the book 'Provided You Don't Kiss Me,' by Duncan Hamilton which chronicles Clough's time as Forest manager, as seen through the eyes of Hamilton, a football reporter with a local East Midlands paper at the time. This book is meant to be superb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Cigar Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 I'll watch the film, whoever took over from Don Revie at Leeds was going to be in for some stick from the type of firey players that were at Leeds at that time. I reckon a documentary film should be made as to why Brian Clough and Peter Taylor were not given the England job in 1980. A lot of questions on that England issue need asking because they were quite capable of winning the World Cup for us. I imagine for the same reason Martin O'Neill never got the post (or even got interviewd if I recall), or someone like Venebles had to go: far too controversial and outspoken. And would expose our FA for what they really are: a useless, spineless bunch of bureaucrats who know absolutely nothing about football and couldn't give a toss about the fans. An organisation run by middle-aged men who wouldn't be out of place in the House of Commons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 I imagine for the same reason Martin O'Neill never got the post (or even got interviewd if I recall), or someone like Venebles had to go: far too controversial and outspoken. And would expose our FA for what they really are: a useless, spineless bunch of bureaucrats who know absolutely nothing about football and couldn't give a toss about the fans. An organisation run by middle-aged men who wouldn't be out of place in the House of Commons. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Cigar Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Well said. Thanks, Edson. The FA would be near the top of my 'Room 101s!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForestForever Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Anyone know if its on again? Friday 3rd April @ 8pm on ITV4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Friday 3rd April @ 8pm on ITV4 Good lad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForestForever Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Good lad! Also, if you're interested: Brian Clough: In His Own Words More4 - Saturday 4th April @ 11.10pm As The Damned United shows in cinemas, the programme examines the life of one of the most successful and controversial English football managers, exploring the truth behind the myths and featuring an interview with the man himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Also, if you're interested: Brian Clough: In His Own Words More4 - Saturday 4th April @ 11.10pm As The Damned United shows in cinemas, the programme examines the life of one of the most successful and controversial English football managers, exploring the truth behind the myths and featuring an interview with the man himself. Cheers I was going to use your avatar? its quality. I ask you before I'm sure. Is that Okay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForestForever Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Cheers I was going to use your avatar? its quality. I ask you before I'm sure. Is that Okay? No problem with me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider head Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 I wonder what your views (our views) are on the current Damned United Film? Clough's family are not at all happy with it or the portrayal of Brian - for me that is reason enough not to go and see it - but otherwise I would have gone cos I thought he was a Legend - but if his own family are against it I feel I have to "boycott" it - anyone feel the same way or will you go look for yourselves? I have read the book and it does not paint a good picture and johnny giles took legal action over it and the author has since regretted parts of the book and has giles said if others were still alive the book would have never seen the day of light, the film is very much glossed up but not a great Portral but to be fair i don't know why he took the leeds job as he hated them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 I have read the book and it does not paint a good picture and johnny giles took legal action over it and the author has since regretted parts of the book, the film is very much glossed up but not a great Portral but to be fair i don't know why he took the leeds job as he hated them. That's the way he was - that's why we all liked him so much! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider head Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 That's the way he was - that's why we all liked him so much! Yes i agree but his motives was to change the old leeds legends which he would be flogging a dead horse with his style, he should instead start bulding a team the way he did at forest, leeds was a small blip in a great career but yes a great manager England never had and we need more managers like him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Orns Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Yes i agree but his motives was to change the old leeds legends which he would be flogging a dead horse with his style, he should instead start bulding a team the way he did at forest, leeds was a small blip in a great career but yes a great manager England never had and we need more managers like him. Lets be honest, if Clough was around now he'd be skint! He couldn't get away with all the stuff he used to come out with back then. Can you imagine him & Mourinho going head to head? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cider head Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Lets be honest, if Clough was around now he'd be skint! He couldn't get away with all the stuff he used to come out with back then. Can you imagine him & Mourinho going head to head? That would be fun him & Mourinho but to be fair in his later days with forest he was more reserved with the press than in his derby days, but it needs more people to speak their mind and the truth as a lot of the pc thing has killed football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Gows perm Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Cigar Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 That would be fun him & Mourinho but to be fair in his later days with forest he was more reserved with the press than in his derby days, but it needs more people to speak their mind and the truth as a lot of the pc thing has killed football. 24 hour media, TV cameras from every angle, footballers becoming more like celebrities. All of these things (and loads more) have produced players and managers who have very little to say in front of the camera/on the radio. Pre-match/Post match interviews are rarely worth listening to. Modern day footballers and managers probably resent the media but just put up with it for an easy life. Also, players (at least in the top divisions) have become completely detached from the fans. One of the reasons I think Gary Johnson is so great is because of his honesty in interviews. I rarely feel like he's just saying anything to get the media off his back. Always worth listening to what he has to say. And, it shows a huge amount of respect to us City fans when we fork out our hard earned cash to follow the club home and away. Listening to England internationals is like listening to Government ministers. They have nothing to say, all sound like each other, and rarely deviate from the party/club line. The thing that drives me to distraction about football is this obsession with always having to 'take the positives,' even when you've been stuffed 4-0! What's wrong with just saying we were crap and got hammered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 For the greatest managers that England's ever produced I'd consider the likes of Herbert Chapman, Alf Ramsay, Don Revie, Bob Paisley and even Ron Saunders to be as good if not better. Are you sure? I'll give you Chapman and Ramsay but not so sure about the others. Paisley had a great record but then he inherited the great work that Shankly had done. Revie was a turncoat and only built one good side, and Saunders???? He wasnt fit to lace Cloughs boots and would struggle to get in a top 20 of English Managers! Are you a villa fan? A Villa fan? :noexpression: Ron Saunders took Aston Villa from the old Div 3 to top flight champions in 6 seasons then won them the European Cup. Bob Paisley was immense to better the great achievements of Shankley. Revie was a great manager capable of turning out a team to either kick or play the opposition off the pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry Gows perm Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 A Villa fan? :noexpression: Ron Saunders took Aston Villa from the old Div 3 to top flight champions in 6 seasons then won them the European Cup. Bob Paisley was immense to better the great achievements of Shankley. Revie was a great manager capable of turning out a team to either kick or play the opposition off the pitch. Agreed they had qualities but still not enough to put them on a par with Cloughie! He took two struggling and mediocre mid div 2 (in old money) sides and turned them into Div 1 Champions (and in Forest case European cup winners twice) in a shorter time than both Revie and Saunders managed it. Was also great at taking "problem" players that no-one else would touch and getting the best out of them - Lloyd and Burns are great examples plus a few others! I guess we have to agree to disagree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Agreed they had qualities but still not enough to put them on a par with Cloughie! He took two struggling and mediocre mid div 2 (in old money) sides and turned them into Div 1 Champions (and in Forest case European cup winners twice) in a shorter time than both Revie and Saunders managed it. Was also great at taking "problem" players that no-one else would touch and getting the best out of them - Lloyd and Burns are great examples plus a few others! I guess we have to agree to disagree! The drawback with Brian Clough was that he wasn't a top manager without Peter Taylor. They were an awesome double act but individually they were average. Brian Clough also walked out on Derby, Brighton and Leeds. In fairness, other than Don Revie himself, there was probably only one manager in Britain mentally strong enough to control those Leeds players at the time and that was Bill Shankley who would never have left Liverpool for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidNoble Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 I'm only 15 and i thought it was top notch, recorded it and only just watched it. Shows how much football changed but he sounds like a legend. Derby must be gutted their rivals have 2 european cups to their name when it could have easily been them. It must be odd two enemies completely loving the same man. Is their often fights over who Brian liked more do you now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garlicbread Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 The drawback with Brian Clough was that he wasn't a top manager without Peter Taylor. They were an awesome double act but individually they were average. Brian Clough also walked out on Derby, Brighton and Leeds. In fairness, other than Don Revie himself, there was probably only one manager in Britain mentally strong enough to control those Leeds players at the time and that was Bill Shankley who would never have left Liverpool for them. Completely irrelevant at who Clough chose for his back room...the record reflects his achievements, not who he chose to work with. Whether he walked out on a club is also irrelevant. Fergie walked out on Aberdeen. Paisley walked out on Hudersfield...irrelevant and gets in the way of facts. The fact is he took two small clubs from the bottom of 2nd division to become champions of england. He won the European cup and then retained it (with a 'small' club)...nobody has matched that...not Shankly, Saunders, Paisley or Fergie. Clough should be canonised in my book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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