Mr Mosquito Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Completely irrelevant at who Clough chose for his back room...the record reflects his achievements, not who he chose to work with. Whether he walked out on a club is also irrelevant. Fergie walked out on Aberdeen. Paisley walked out on Hudersfield...irrelevant and gets in the way of facts. The fact is he took two small clubs from the bottom of 2nd division to become champions of england. He won the European cup and then retained it (with a 'small' club)...nobody has matched that...not Shankly, Saunders, Paisley or Fergie. Clough should be canonised in my book The fact is that Clough won the major trophies with the help of Peter Taylor - they were a double act. One was not that good without the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltshoveller Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Just watched the ITV Documentary and PHEW great great stuff. For all footy fans what an education of a footballing genius , and an example of what can be achieved on a relative shoe-string for, not one but two , unfashionable Clubs (ie Derby and Forest)........Lets all hope it can happen again , especially in these times of over inflated wages etc...... Again , a great show and brought a tear to the eye of a fan of footy as it was / still should be.... PS Shame they mentioned that rather famous Rovers win at Brighton Great Manager Got the best out of some very have players Francis cost a then world record £1m So hardly shoe string budget God how i wish we had a left winger as good as John Robertson saying that most Premier League managers would say that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garlicbread Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 The fact is that Clough won the major trophies with the help of Peter Taylor - they were a double act. One was not that good without the other. So his record is less than the others? Of course not. Would you say the same about Shanks, who won nothing until he had the boot room around him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 So his record is less than the others? Of course not. Would you say the same about Shanks, who won nothing until he had the boot room around him? Clough and Taylor were, most definately, a double act...... Very little is often mentioned of Peter Taylor, the man who spotted talent for Brian Clough when others couldn't see it. Peter Taylor with Brian Clough forged second rate clubs like Derby and Forest into world beaters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garlicbread Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Clough and Taylor were, most definately, a double act...... Very little is often mentioned of Peter Taylor, the man who spotted talent for Brian Clough when others couldn't see it. Peter Taylor with Brian Clough forged second rate clubs like Derby and Forest into world beaters. Totally agree...and Clough is the most successful english gaffer ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Totally agree...and Clough is the most successful english gaffer ever Well, Alf Ramsay took Shitswich from Div 3 mediocrity to top flight Div 1 champions in 5 seasons. Then he took the England job and won us the World Cup. Even more amazingly, Herbert Chapman took Huddersfield Town - that was a staunch rugby league town - from Div 2 to consecutive top flight championships. Then he took over at the then unfashionable Arsenal and broke the Northern stranglehold on the league championship. Herbert Chapman's footballing ethics were that a team's success was built on a solid defence and fast counter attacks with freedom given to wingers to attack the opposition. OK, Brian Clough was a truely great manager but there are other greats that are almost forgotten in the mists of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Cigar Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 I'm only 15 and i thought it was top notch, recorded it and only just watched it. Shows how much football changed but he sounds like a legend. Derby must be gutted their rivals have 2 european cups to their name when it could have easily been them. It must be odd two enemies completely loving the same man. Is their often fights over who Brian liked more do you now? I doubt it. He started off at Derby and turned them from nobodies into Division 1 champions (when it was called Div 1 and not the Premier League) and then won back to back European Cups with Nottingham Forest. Unheard of then, let alone now. They both love him. There's a statue of him in Nottingham city centre (I think) which went up last November, and Derby currently have a campaign to get one erected outside Pride Park. When we were on the way to Derby a few weeks ago we went via 'Brian Clough Way.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrizzleRed Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Clough WAS DEFINITELY a legend and I well remember Forest playing at the Gate at their peak. His players never questioned a referee's decision, dived, cheated, or gave up on a lost cause. It's amazing how many clubs later bought Forest players who Clough had turned into 'stars', only to find they turned back fairly average players again, once away from Cloughie's influence. Football is sadly lacking in characters these days, but nobody will ever come close to the great Brian Clough. His interviews were always entertaining and he would always tell it how he saw it, and he certainly knew what he was talking about. A GREAT MAN!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 BRIAN CLOUGH AND PETER TAYLOR - THE PARTNERSHIP....on youtube for all to see...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse With No Name Posted March 26, 2009 Report Share Posted March 26, 2009 Just watched the ITV Documentary and PHEW great great stuff. For all footy fans what an education of a footballing genius , and an example of what can be achieved on a relative shoe-string for, not one but two , unfashionable Clubs (ie Derby and Forest)........Lets all hope it can happen again , especially in these times of over inflated wages etc...... Again , a great show and brought a tear to the eye of a fan of footy as it was / still should be.... PS Shame they mentioned that rather famous Rovers win at Brighton I loved the documentary, being of the age wher I can remember it all happening for myself, and will definitely watch it again when it is repeated. If you didn't watch it first time, watch out for the golden moment towards the end when Clough and Revie were on the same chat show, David Frost I think. Clough had just taken over at Leeds, and Revie had just become England manager, and they hated each other with a passion. Just watch Revie's face as Clough leans into him, and says that, while he respected the fact that Leeds had won the Title, in his opinion it was won by cheating. Furthermore Clough was going to win the title "properly". Revie's face was pure fury, and trying his hardest not to stand up and wallop Clough. Absolute class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ki-bcfc Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Just watched the ITV Documentary and PHEW great great stuff. For all footy fans what an education of a footballing genius , and an example of what can be achieved on a relative shoe-string for, not one but two , unfashionable Clubs (ie Derby and Forest)........Lets all hope it can happen again , especially in these times of over inflated wages etc...... Again , a great show and brought a tear to the eye of a fan of footy as it was / still should be.... PS Shame they mentioned that rather famous Rovers win at Brighton u must be gullable... its obviously a made up film... rovers win??:L next.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinmabbuttshair Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 The drawback with Brian Clough was that he wasn't a top manager without Peter Taylor. They were an awesome double act but individually they were average. Brian Clough also walked out on Derby, Brighton and Leeds. In fairness, other than Don Revie himself, there was probably only one manager in Britain mentally strong enough to control those Leeds players at the time and that was Bill Shankley who would never have left Liverpool for them. He didn't walk out on Derby he was forced out by a autocratic chairman who knew as much about football as your average yank. A decision that Derby County Football Club have paid for ever since. He left Brighton for a far better job with more prospects and more money, wouldn't you? Nor did he walk out on Leeds, he was sacked! Sorry Gobbers but Revie was a complete #######. Dirty Leeds did kick and bully their way to everything, apart from getting past us of course. England job wasn't going well for him and he bottled it and signed on for the UAE. What sort of Englishman does that make him? Could you see Cloughie bottling it? Even Graham Taylor stuck it out when things were going bad? Clough should've been given the job in front of Robson. Christ, Forest had just won back to back European Cups when it was a knock out, no sneaky group stage to let the big teams through, yet he was still not given the job. Italia '90 with Clough at the helm... He was the kick up the harris that the FA needed and never got!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForestForever Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 If you didn't watch it first time, watch out for the golden moment towards the end when Clough and Revie were on the same chat show The interview was pure TV gold. Clough tied Revie up in knots throughout and it was a pleasure to see! Most football fans took a shine to Clough after that because Clough said in a live TV interview what every supporter was saying on the terraces. You can see the full interview here: http://www.itv.com/Sport/Football/News/Gen...ps/default.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 He didn't walk out on Derby he was forced out by a autocratic chairman who knew as much about football as your average yank. A decision that Derby County Football Club have paid for ever since. He left Brighton for a far better job with more prospects and more money, wouldn't you? Nor did he walk out on Leeds, he was sacked! Sorry Gobbers but Revie was a complete #######. Dirty Leeds did kick and bully their way to everything, apart from getting past us of course. England job wasn't going well for him and he bottled it and signed on for the UAE. What sort of Englishman does that make him? Could you see Cloughie bottling it? Even Graham Taylor stuck it out when things were going bad? Clough should've been given the job in front of Robson. Christ, Forest had just won back to back European Cups when it was a knock out, no sneaky group stage to let the big teams through, yet he was still not given the job. Italia '90 with Clough at the helm... He was the kick up the harris that the FA needed and never got!! I think there may be more to it with Derby as their fans would have lynched their Chairman if it meant they could keep Clough. The same with Leeds, there's more to it with Clough seemingly going all out to upset the Leeds players from the start. As for Don Revie, he was a mercenary leaving the England job to manage abroad but he was still a great manager. As for Clough getting the England job in 1980, of course he should have been given the job along with his colleague Peter Taylor. It may then have been us winning the World Cup in Spain instead of Italy being World Champions in 1982. It's a shame that there's a feature film of Clough at Leeds showing only - mainly - negatives about Clough when there could have been a film about the Football Association not giving Clough the England job in 1980. I really would like to know more about the turkeys at the FA who denied Clough that England job. As a result, Brian Clough and Peter Taylor are now in history as the best England management team that never was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForestForever Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 As a result, Brian Clough and Peter Taylor are now in history as the best England management team that never was. Nail on head Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Nail on head Thank you Sir. For a Forest supporter, surely Clough and Taylor being taken from you in their managerial prime would have been a bad scenario for you? :noexpression: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForestForever Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Thank you Sir. For a Forest supporter, surely Clough and Taylor being taken from you in their managerial prime would have been a bad scenario for you? :noexpression: Of course, club before country every time. When he 'failed' the England interview I can't honestly say I was sorry, I was delighted he would be coming back to Forest. But looking back now at the way Forest ended up, the way him and Taylor ended up, it would have been great to see the pair of them working with the likes of Keegan, Hoddle and Brooking - Not forgetting Shilton, Anderson, and Birtles! Hindsight is a wonderful thing and I'm sure the folks at the FA have said the same thing since. We'll never know but the England squad of the early 80's were good enough to pick up trophies, they were just lacking leadership - Clough and Taylor were the missing ingredients. On a different note, many thanks for the good words posted on this thread from the City supporters. I regulary browse other football forums and some of the comments posted on Clough following the documentary (especially Liverpool ) have left a nasty taste in my mouth. Yes he was arrogant, abrupt and full of his own self importance but he was also a great leader and his opinions often reflected what everyday fans were thinking. I wish he was still around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Ferret Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 I regulary browse other football forums and some of the comments posted on Clough following the documentary (especially Liverpool ) have left a nasty taste in my mouth. What have the Liverpool fans been saying about Clough? I can't see why they would deny he was a great manager/character Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 I think there may be more to it with Derby as their fans would have lynched their Chairman if it meant they could keep Clough. The same with Leeds, there's more to it with Clough seemingly going all out to upset the Leeds players from the start. As for Don Revie, he was a mercenary leaving the England job to manage abroad but he was still a great manager. As for Clough getting the England job in 1980, of course he should have been given the job along with his colleague Peter Taylor. It may then have been us winning the World Cup in Spain instead of Italy being World Champions in 1982. It's a shame that there's a feature film of Clough at Leeds showing only - mainly - negatives about Clough when there could have been a film about the Football Association not giving Clough the England job in 1980. I really would like to know more about the turkeys at the FA who denied Clough that England job. As a result, Brian Clough and Peter Taylor are now in history as the best England management team that never was. From the man himself: "I'm sure the England selectors thought if they took me on and gave me the job, I'd want to run the show. They were shrewd, because that's exactly what I would have done." re: Peter Taylor, I'm not sure quite how his scouting prowess would've aided Clough's recruitment of players for England but hey-ho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garlicbread Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 What have the Liverpool fans been saying about Clough? I can't see why they would deny he was a great manager/character That some other team has the timerity to win two of their european cups Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Of course, club before country every time. When he 'failed' the England interview I can't honestly say I was sorry, I was delighted he would be coming back to Forest. But looking back now at the way Forest ended up, the way him and Taylor ended up, it would have been great to see the pair of them working with the likes of Keegan, Hoddle and Brooking - Not forgetting Shilton, Anderson, and Birtles! Hindsight is a wonderful thing and I'm sure the folks at the FA have said the same thing since. We'll never know but the England squad of the early 80's were good enough to pick up trophies, they were just lacking leadership - Clough and Taylor were the missing ingredients. On a different note, many thanks for the good words posted on this thread from the City supporters. I regulary browse other football forums and some of the comments posted on Clough following the documentary (especially Liverpool ) have left a nasty taste in my mouth. Yes he was arrogant, abrupt and full of his own self importance but he was also a great leader and his opinions often reflected what everyday fans were thinking. I wish he was still around Believe me, there were an awful lot of England football supporters - including most of the media - putting pressure on the Football Association to appoint Clough and Taylor circa 1980. I reckon the England manager we have now will do great things but, it seems, the era of when an English team managed by an English manager is successful came to an end when Alf Ramsay lost the England job. Thanks to the buffoons at the FA we can only but wonder what an England Clough and Taylor partnership would have won for our Motherland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForestForever Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 What have the Liverpool fans been saying about Clough? I can't see why they would deny he was a great manager/character Clough wrote in his autobiography that it was the liverpool fans who killed their own at Hillsborough He later apologised but didn't need to in my opinion. The truth hurts I guess and they've never forgotton his comments but to deny he was a great manager and call him a drunken fool just sums up the mentality of many of their fans. It probably has a lot to do with Forest winning more things than they did in those days as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garlicbread Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Clough wrote in his autobiography that it was the liverpool fans who killed their own at Hillsborough He later apologised but didn't need to in my opinion. The truth hurts I guess and they've never forgotton his comments but to deny he was a great manager and call him a drunken fool just sums up the mentality of many of their fans. It probably has a lot to do with Forest winning more things than they did in those days as well. :noexpression: :noexpression: :noexpression: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seend Red Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 The truth hurts I guess and they've never forgotton his comments but to deny he was a great manager and call him a drunken fool just sums up the mentality of many of their fans. It probably has a lot to do with Forest winning more things than they did in those days as well. Do your home work buddy and and think you'll find Liverpool won loads more silverware than Forest during the duration of Cloughy's rein. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Clough wrote in his autobiography that it was the liverpool fans who killed their own at Hillsborough He later apologised but didn't need to in my opinion. The truth hurts I guess and they've never forgotton his comments but to deny he was a great manager and call him a drunken fool just sums up the mentality of many of their fans. It probably has a lot to do with Forest winning more things than they did in those days as well. Yep, can just about hear the snap of the ringpull on that can of worms being opened, now.......... Also, if 'those days' constitutes a select period of about three years (77-80) then you probably just about matched them, otherwise I think you're flattering yourself somewhat there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Yep, can just about hear the snap of the ringpull on that can of worms being opened, now.......... Also, if 'those days' constitutes a select period of about three years (77-80) then you probably just about matched them, otherwise I think you're flattering yourself somewhat there. That brings us nicely onto another great manager of Brian Clough's period. Bob Paisley....... "There was only one Bob Paisley and he was the greatest of them all. He went through the card in football. He played for Liverpool, he treated the players, he coached them, he managed them and then he became a director. He could tell if someone was injured and what the problem was just by watching them walk a few paces. He was never boastful but had great football knowledge. I owe Bob more than I owe anybody else in the game. There will never be another like him." - Kenny Dalglish Source: http://www.bobpaisley.com/webs/bobpaisley/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WTFiGO!?! Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 A great pie connoisseur as well..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garlicbread Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 That brings us nicely onto another great manager of Brian Clough's period. Bob Paisley....... "There was only one Bob Paisley and he was the greatest of them all. He went through the card in football. He played for Liverpool, he treated the players, he coached them, he managed them and then he became a director. He could tell if someone was injured and what the problem was just by watching them walk a few paces. He was never boastful but had great football knowledge. I owe Bob more than I owe anybody else in the game. There will never be another like him." - Kenny Dalglish Source: http://www.bobpaisley.com/webs/bobpaisley/ Thought this was a thread about Brian Clough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Thought this was a thread about Brian Clough. It is and this is to settlement the argument over who won the most trophies. Brian Clough and Peter Taylor or Bob Paisley. Here's the answer....... Liverpool won the League championship SIX times in NINE seasons under Bob Paisley in 1976, 1977, 1979, 1980, 1982 and 1983. Liverpool won the European Cup THREE times in 1977, 1978 and 1981 and the UEFA Cup in 1976. Liverpool won the League Cup THREE years in a row in 1981, 1982 and 1983. Bob Paisley was voted Manager of the year: 1976, 1977, 1979, 1980, 1982 and 1983. His record speaks for itself as the most successful manager in Liverpool's glorious history. In addition to the above honours, Bob Paisley's Liverpool also finished as League runners-up twice, won the Charity Shield on 5 occasions, reached 2 F.A. Cup semi-finals and 1 League Cup semi-final. During Paisley's reign, Liverpool set an all-time record of 85 home games unbeaten in all competitions. This run included 63 league matches and stretched over 3 years from 7th February 1978 to 31st January 1981. Source: http://www.bobpaisley.com/webs/bobpaisley/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garlicbread Posted March 27, 2009 Report Share Posted March 27, 2009 Paisley has obviously won more cups, having inherited a world class team from Shanks. Clough did the equivelant of taking control of Johnson's Bristol City, winning the CCC, then on to winning the prem and then the champions league consecutively....clearly a bigger achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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