Lee In On Merit

[Whale Eye Beef Hooked]

So there .. from last nights Q & A at Cadbury hotel

The issue of the midfielder's continued selection has polarised opinion amongst supporters since he was re-united with Johnson senior after signing from Hearts in August 2006.

The manager, however, broke his silence on the long-running criticism at a Bristol Sport forum at the Cadbury House Hotel in Congresbury, which was specially arranged to raise money for the Special Care Baby Unit at St Michael's Hospital.

Johnson senior insisted that Lee was one of 'six or seven' players who make up the nucleus of his side and that the success City have enjoyed over the last three seasons made it impossible for any charges of nepotism to be levelled in his direction.

He said: "I think I am more experienced, so it is certainly a more difficult situation for Lee. It is difficult for him because he sees it as being picked by his Dad, whereas I just look at it as simply picking a player.

"The only way it can work is if it is a successful partnership. If we had suffered two or three difficult seasons and a couple of relegations it could be classed as nepotism, for sure.

"We have been together from the Conference to the Championship and have been involved in three promotions. He gives me a game that I feel I need and the fact that he is my son is really neither here nor there.

"There are six or seven lads that are the nucleus of our team and I will pick them every week because I am trying to keep the continuity, which has been a key part in our success over the last couple of years.

"There are times people want me to leave him out, but I can't always do that because you just pick the team that you think will progress the club.

"I treat all the players the same and whatever I say to any of them is done for the right reasons. You have to do that because the minute you start treating any player differently, you are in danger of losing the dressing room."

[westy]

Can I get a refund on my ST??

[ooRya]

Gary clearly knows how to build a team and how to create unity within that team, so his comments regarding having a fixed 6/7 players makes perfect sense. Also the success that he has enjoyed both here and at Yeovil with Lee in the team is clear for all to see, so therefore very hard to argue against. (Although some on here always will!)

However, I think this season has shown that the current 6/7 nucleus is perhaps not quite good enough to take us to the next level, so it's my guess that we will see changes throughout the squad this summer. Whether Lee is one of those changes remains to be seen, but if he is in the team for the first game of the season I am 100% certain it will be on merit.

[Guest RobbieTurner]

Can I get a refund on my ST??

Why would you want to ? Just because LJ is in on the managers merit ? If you don't want to follow the mighty reds just because LJ is playing go and ask for a refund, hopefully you will get one.

Personally, whoever is playing will get my support, because they are representing our football club. Lets stop the GJ LJ debate before it starts....yet again.

[B-Rizzle]

Can I get a refund on my ST??

be my guest....cheerio

[Guest]

Can I get a refund on my ST??

Going by the replies so far it seems your humour is wasted on here

[westy]

Going by the replies so far it seems your humour is wasted on here

to true, to true old boy

[Guest]

So there .. from last nights Q & A at Cadbury hotel

The issue of the midfielder's continued selection has polarised opinion amongst supporters since he was re-united with Johnson senior after signing from Hearts in August 2006.

The manager, however, broke his silence on the long-running criticism at a Bristol Sport forum at the Cadbury House Hotel in Congresbury, which was specially arranged to raise money for the Special Care Baby Unit at St Michael's Hospital.

Johnson senior insisted that Lee was one of 'six or seven' players who make up the nucleus of his side and that the success City have enjoyed over the last three seasons made it impossible for any charges of nepotism to be levelled in his direction.

He said: "I think I am more experienced, so it is certainly a more difficult situation for Lee. It is difficult for him because he sees it as being picked by his Dad, whereas I just look at it as simply picking a player.

"The only way it can work is if it is a successful partnership. If we had suffered two or three difficult seasons and a couple of relegations it could be classed as nepotism, for sure.

"We have been together from the Conference to the Championship and have been involved in three promotions. He gives me a game that I feel I need and the fact that he is my son is really neither here nor there.

"There are six or seven lads that are the nucleus of our team and I will pick them every week because I am trying to keep the continuity, which has been a key part in our success over the last couple of years.

"There are times people want me to leave him out, but I can't always do that because you just pick the team that you think will progress the club.

"I treat all the players the same and whatever I say to any of them is done for the right reasons. You have to do that because the minute you start treating any player differently, you are in danger of losing the dressing room."

GJ to me seems to air on the side of caution which I suppose is not a bad thing; be nice to throw caution to the wind now and again though and go for the throat.

Maybe this weekend go on Garry ATTACK nothing to lose

[Guest DanC]

Why would you want to ? Just because LJ is in on the managers merit ? If you don't want to follow the mighty reds just because LJ is playing go and ask for a refund, hopefully you will get one.

Personally, whoever is playing will get my support, because they are representing our football club. Lets stop the GJ LJ debate before it starts....yet again.

Carey if fit starts every game, Elliott if fit starts every game, Basso the same plus Orr, McAlister, McIndoe yet none of them receive the same amount of stick as LJ does nor have there every move on the pitch debated about. The only reason they do is because he is teh managers son simple as. LJ I think has only missed 2 games all season and has a decent disciplinary record so he should be given praise for being such a every present and for never letting the side down. OK he is not the greatest player in teh world but he does what he is asked to do and this season he has worked very hard on adapting his game so that he gets into more goalscoring opportunities.

[Nibor]

I've never thought LJ was in the side on anything other than the manager's opinion of his contribution to the team.

I just think his opinion is wrong and we have central midfielders that would be more effective.

I am frustrated that even when LJ has a poor run of form we never try an alternative and seem to avoid every opportunity to do so.

With LJ in the middle of a 442 we have to play very tight to cover his defensive weakness and therefore don't have much width which leads to us going direct and scoring sod all goals.

[bully]

So there .. from last nights Q & A at Cadbury hotel

The issue of the midfielder's continued selection has polarised opinion amongst supporters since he was re-united with Johnson senior after signing from Hearts in August 2006.

The manager, however, broke his silence on the long-running criticism at a Bristol Sport forum at the Cadbury House Hotel in Congresbury, which was specially arranged to raise money for the Special Care Baby Unit at St Michael's Hospital.

Johnson senior insisted that Lee was one of 'six or seven' players who make up the nucleus of his side and that the success City have enjoyed over the last three seasons made it impossible for any charges of nepotism to be levelled in his direction.

He said: "I think I am more experienced, so it is certainly a more difficult situation for Lee. It is difficult for him because he sees it as being picked by his Dad, whereas I just look at it as simply picking a player.

"The only way it can work is if it is a successful partnership. If we had suffered two or three difficult seasons and a couple of relegations it could be classed as nepotism, for sure.

"We have been together from the Conference to the Championship and have been involved in three promotions. He gives me a game that I feel I need and the fact that he is my son is really neither here nor there.

"There are six or seven lads that are the nucleus of our team and I will pick them every week because I am trying to keep the continuity, which has been a key part in our success over the last couple of years.

"There are times people want me to leave him out, but I can't always do that because you just pick the team that you think will progress the club.

"I treat all the players the same and whatever I say to any of them is done for the right reasons. You have to do that because the minute you start treating any player differently, you are in danger of losing the dressing room."

Would anyone expect GJ to say anything different?

He's the manager, he picks the team - this forum is about people who may or may not agree with him on all points.

His comments change nothing for me - LJ is not the player who should be holding down the most important position on the field.

Doing it consistently in Conference, League 2 and League 1 clearly doesn't mean you deliver consistently at CCC level.

The nepotism thing will never be proved one way or the other until GJ signs someone who can genuinely compete in what he considers to be an integral role in the team.

So folks - LJ is a certain starter next season because he's one of GJ's '6 or 7 lads' GJ will pick every week - get used to it.

[Spike]

"There are six or seven lads that are the nucleus of our team and I will pick them every week because I am trying to keep the continuity, which has been a key part in our success over the last couple of years.

So thats pretty much just made my opinion of GJ drop alot!

I can understand building a team and keeping continuity but by saying "these 6-7 players will play regardless" pretty much gives out the impression that certain players won't need to fight as hard for their position in the team, the players who are competing for those spots will look to move on once they have had a season or two of being second pick and it also means during the transfer period it is more than likely we won't see anything new.

I can see why GJ doesn't want to change things up but I think our final position this season is roughly where we will end up each season if we don't look to improve the squad regardless of players being "a key part in our success over the last couple of years". I mean in a couple of years player can change so much that they need replacing!

I'm sure the list is something like:

Lee Johnson

McIndoe

Maynard

Basso

Fontaine

Carey

Elliot

Orr

and if thats the case then he is looking to get:

a new CF

a new LB

a new RM

I think a new RM/RW would do wonders if GJ buys an attacking player but no doubt he'll buy a right sided midfield which will work hard and tuck inside leaving us with no creativity.

A new LB is probably not too bad but when we are lacking creativity in midfield it makes very little difference.

Finally a new CF isn't a bad idea but only if GJ brings in a proven big man to replace Dele. Maynard is not enough of a threat in the air and he doesn't have the strength to hold the ball up when we need that (which is in alot of cases when we have very little creativity in the middle).

I think GJ needs to stop playing so defensive... defensive football is not a bad thing since a good team always has a strong defence but football is about balance. At the moment we have McIndoe playing a more defensive role, Elliot is the only man we have who will get stuck into tackles so he is also playing defensive and LJ is neither attacking nor defensive imo which means we rely alot on our strikers and whoever gets the RM spot to create the goals. Obviously I'm not saying thats the only place we get goals from but we certainly lack a creative spark.

If I were a manager for a midtable team in the championship and I was coming up against Bristol City I wouldn't think "hmm this could be a hard game" like I would against say Birmingham, Wolves, Reading or even Cardiff City. I'd be thinking "All I have to do is break down their defence, play Maynard out of the game and don't give McIndoe enough time to play deep crosses.... I honestly think alot of managers think the same. The only thing we have going for us is hard work. We certainly don't have youth working for us since GJ is too stuck in his ways to try different things.

I'm a big fan of GJ and what he has done for the club so far and I am certainly not calling for his head as I don't think we can get much of a better manager but i certainly think we are stuck in a rut and won't be playing Premier League football untill we can get a squad together with talent like the top 3-5 teams have. Hate me all you like but I think Cardiff City have a more realistic chance of getting promoted next season than us (thats if they don't this season)

[Riaz]

I've never thought LJ was in the side on anything other than the manager's opinion of his contribution to the team.

I just think his opinion is wrong and we have central midfielders that would be more effective.

I am frustrated that even when LJ has a poor run of form we never try an alternative and seem to avoid every opportunity to do so.

With LJ in the middle of a 442 we have to play very tight to cover his defensive weakness and therefore don't have much width which leads to us going direct and scoring sod all goals.

But why does everyone ignore the fact that 90% of McAllister's performances are poor?? McAllister never gets dropped but that never gets mentioned.

If LJ played as badly as McAllister i would understand the critizism he gets....

[PhatWill]

I am frustrated that even when LJ has a poor run of form we never try an alternative and seem to avoid every opportunity to do so.

Same can be said for all those core 6/7 that GJ is talking about though...McAllister, Elliott, Basso, Orr, McIndoe. Don't think they've been dropped/subbed very often after poor displays?

[Mr Mosquito]

His comments change nothing for me - LJ is not the player who should be holding down the most important position on the field.

Nick J and Matt Black on the BCFC ziderheads forum have hit the nail on the head in my opinion. Given time on the ball and in low pressure games, Lee Johnson excels. Low pressure games, where Lee Johnson will be given time on the ball, are few and far between in this Championship division. That's why we often struggle against the better teams because Lee Johnson in our central midfield gets over run during the better, faster, tighter games.

[bully]

Carey if fit starts every game, Elliott if fit starts every game, Basso the same plus Orr, McAlister, McIndoe yet none of them receive the same amount of stick as LJ does nor have there every move on the pitch debated about. The only reason they do is because he is teh managers son simple as. LJ I think has only missed 2 games all season and has a decent disciplinary record so he should be given praise for being such a every present and for never letting the side down. OK he is not the greatest player in teh world but he does what he is asked to do and this season he has worked very hard on adapting his game so that he gets into more goalscoring opportunities.

I disagree Dan - Elliot earned his favoured starting position with GJ due to his performances last season, and has been in and out due to injury so wouldn't merit much stick I feel .

Who would dispute that Carey makes the team tighter, and is a genuine candidate for player of the season?

Basso I agree has been dodgy on occasion but again earned favouritism this term for what he did last season, and coaches often appear to give goalies a bit of slack.

McAlister - no competition which is GJ's fault not his, but he gets plenty of stick due to his distribution - he gets less rabid support from others when that criticism is levelled though so it cuts both ways.

Orr - fellow Pros seemed to rate him last year and Prem clubs still appear interested if the press are to be believed. Like Macca, distribution is shite but unlike LJ would I think get into most CCC sides? - he was also dropped by GJ because 'his head wouldn't be right' which was frankly b***ocks.

McIndoe - agree that he has disappointed this year (but not last) - some say that's because he's instructed to drift inside, but hasn't he been left out this season? - again though, for all the flak he gets, which is less than LJ agreed, he doesn't seem to get much support either.

LJ plays because he's picked - that's not his fault - he does sometimes let the team down but he seems a good dedicated pro and should be complimented for that.

[bully]

But why does everyone ignore the fact that 90% of McAllister's performances are poor?? McAllister never gets dropped but that never gets mentioned.

If LJ played as badly as McAllister i would understand the critizism he gets....

Plenty criticise McAllister Riaz, and most agree we need a better left back - just like LJ the manager should try to acquire someone better.

Funny though that George Burley seems to consider the man international class - he no doubt thinks that anyone who sees things differently plays too much Championship Manager..

[Riaz]

Plenty criticise McAllister Riaz, and most agree we need a better left back - just like LJ the manager should try to acquire someone better.

Funny though that George Burley seems to consider the man international class - he no doubt thinks that anyone who sees things differently plays too much Championship Manager..

international class? this is scotland we talking about!! he cant rate him that much because he's only making up the numbers..

he does not get half the critizism that LJ does, but plays alot worse alot more often..

[dezgimed]

I'm sure LW/CM/LB/RW areas can all be strengthened in the Summer.

Will he though?

If he has 6 or 7 players etc etc. then will he remain being loyal?

The principle is fair enough, but not at the expense of improving the squad.

Is Johnson saying then that Lee will always play ahead on Williams simply because he's been here longer, through L1 etc?

Sounds bonkers.

[Jordan Tansley]

But why does everyone ignore the fact that 90% of McAllister's performances are poor?? McAllister never gets dropped but that never gets mentioned.

If LJ played as badly as McAllister i would understand the critizism he gets....

there isnt a legitimate replacment for macca though is there. if JM was keeping players like GW and DN out of the side the same sort of critisism would go his way, the only player who could take his place happens to be our best centre half :|

[bully]

international class? this is scotland we talking about!! he cant rate him that much because he's only making up the numbers..

he does not get half the critizism that LJ does, but plays alot worse alot more often..

Riaz - you're criticising a professional football manager.

Are you saying you know more than he does?

McAllister doesn't get half the criticism LJ gets - but doesn't get a quarter of the support either.

[Riaz]

Riaz - you're criticising a professional football manager.

Are you saying you know more than he does?

McAllister doesn't get half the criticism LJ gets - but doesn't get a quarter of the support either.

Bully, I have not critizised any manager - merely pointing out the low standard of scottish football

Support for LJ?? I try every game to get a LJ chant going and 9 times out of 10 it goes down like a dead baloon!!

Mind you, he has noticed the 1 time out of ten, I think he showed his appreciation on saturday by coming over to the EE when he scored!! good times.

[Spike]

Riaz - you're criticising a professional football manager.

Are you saying you know more than he does?

McAllister doesn't get half the criticism LJ gets - but doesn't get a quarter of the support either.

GJ may be a professional manager but that doesn't mean he can't be questioned after all he's only human.

Also he's asking to be questioned when he is saying he'll stick with 6-7 players and try to build a team around them as what works in one league wont nessisarily be good enough to gain promotion to the Premier League. In all honesty I'd rather he started strengthening the entire squad and not just players who don't fall into his top 6-7

[westy]

I think goblin and nibor are about right on this and don't see why people jump to the protection of GJ so quickly, there is always room for improvement and christ even MU supporters moan and groan about players etc...

Obviously GJ thinks LJ is picked on credit and obviously some people will think he is blinkered in that decision however I just think it is an unnecessary situation for the club as a whole.

[bully]

GJ may be a professional manager but that doesn't mean he can't be questioned after all he's only human.

Also he's asking to be questioned when he is saying he'll stick with 6-7 players and try to build a team around them as what works in one league wont nessisarily be good enough to gain promotion to the Premier League. In all honesty I'd rather he started strengthening the entire squad and not just players who don't fall into his top 6-7

Spike - sorry mate, I was referring to George Burley not GJ - just a bit of banter because our own GJ can't be questioned!

I agree with you that saying 6 or 7 will play every week is precisely the way to lose the rest of the 'dressing room'

[Tunley Legend]

Nothing wrong with having a nucleus of six or seven players in your team. All successful teams have it. However GJ surely has to ask himself the question "can I improve the nucleus of my team?". Taking Lee Johnson as the example, as that is who GJ referred to directly, is the manager ACTIVELY LOOKING to see if there are better or comparable midfield players around who can provide COMPETITION for LJ's shirt (all successful teams have that too)?

My concern is not that LJ is abysmal or that he gets picked because of nepotism - I don't believe either of those - I simply want to see the boy have to FIGHT for his place (which, like it or not, does improve performance levels) because the overiding impression I get is that the number 33 starting eleven shirt is currently handed to him on a plate.

[bully]

Bully, I have not critizised any manager - merely pointing out the low standard of scottish football

Riaz just having a laugh mate !

Whenever people criticise GJ's selections, others remind them that he knows far more than they do - indeed, GJ himself mentions that fact which hasn't endeared him to some.

I was therefore being a rascal using George Burley - who seems to rate Macca...

Scottish football isn't what it was - but LJ would jump at the chance of playing for them at B or senior level and who could blame him.

[Tunley Legend]

Spike - sorry mate, I was referring to George Burley not GJ - just a bit of banter because our own GJ can't be questioned!

I agree with you that saying 6 or 7 will play every week is precisely the way to lose the rest of the 'dressing room'

I disagree with your last statement. All top teams have a "spine" who you know will be playing when push comes to shove. Van Der Saar, Ferdinand, Carrick, Ronaldo and Rooney will ALWAYS play in the important games at Man Utd if fit. Reyna, Agger, Mascherano, Gerrard and Torres at Liverpool. Almunia, Toure, Fabregas and Adabeyor at Arsenal. Cech, Terry, Lampard, Essien and Drogba at Chelsea. And it just doesn't happen at the big clubs either - it happens in every team up and down the country. Every manager in the land would lose the dressing room using your argument.

If you are one of the players not in the select group then you simply have to improve to the level that you are included - no use moaning and bellyaching. The only time it becomes a problem with players is if one or two of the so called "untouchables" is not felt by them to have deserved that status. For example, if Lampard was useless then his first pick status would cause problems in the dressing room at Stamford Bridge - but because he contributes directly to the huge win bonuses that the rest of the squad pick up most weeks I would be surprised if anyone complains about his status.

[Spike]

I disagree with your last statement. All top teams have a "spine" who you know will be playing when push comes to shove. Van Der Saar, Ferdinand, Carrick, Ronaldo and Rooney will ALWAYS play in the important games at Man Utd if fit. Reyna, Agger, Mascherano, Gerrard and Torres at Liverpool. Almunia, Toure, Fabregas and Adabeyor at Arsenal. Cech, Terry, Lampard, Essien and Drogba at Chelsea. And it just doesn't happen at the big clubs either - it happens in every team up and down the country. Every manager in the land would lose the dressing room using your argument.

If you are one of the players not in the select group then you simply have to improve to the level that you are included - no use moaning and bellyaching. The only time it becomes a problem with players is if one or two of the so called "untouchables" is not felt by them to have deserved that status. For example, if Lampard was useless then his first pick status would cause problems in the dressing room at Stamford Bridge - but because he contributes directly to the huge win bonuses that the rest of the squad pick up most weeks I would be surprised if anyone complains about his status.

Its true that all good teams have a spine but they have a good spine, not a broken one!

Everyone knows full well that the 6-7 players that GJ is talking about aren't good enough to gain promotion. I suppose a good way to look at it is if at the beginning of the season the spine of our team all joined Wolves and were guarenteed to play they wouldnt have won the league as our spine plus some of their awesome talent still wouldn't have been enough.

Having a spine is one thing, never rebuilding that spine even after promotion from league 1 to the championship is not good enough.

[bully]

I disagree with your last statement. All top teams have a "spine" who you know will be playing when push comes to shove. Van Der Saar, Ferdinand, Carrick, Ronaldo and Rooney will ALWAYS play in the important games at Man Utd if fit. Reyna, Agger, Mascherano, Gerrard and Torres at Liverpool. Almunia, Toure, Fabregas and Adabeyor at Arsenal. Cech, Terry, Lampard, Essien and Drogba at Chelsea. And it just doesn't happen at the big clubs either - it happens in every team up and down the country. Every manager in the land would lose the dressing room using your argument.

If you are one of the players not in the select group then you simply have to improve to the level that you are included - no use moaning and bellyaching. The only time it becomes a problem with players is if one or two of the so called "untouchables" is not felt by them to have deserved that status. For example, if Lampard was useless then his first pick status would cause problems in the dressing room at Stamford Bridge - but because he contributes directly to the huge win bonuses that the rest of the squad pick up most weeks I would be surprised if anyone complains about his status.

I think you have actually supported my statement - the spine in each team you mention always play the important games if fit.

LJ (for example) plays every game when fit - even when there's nothing to play for like the past few weeks.

Managers may have their first choice players, but I don't know of any who come out and say publicly that they will always be selected, and don't appear to do anything about improving that list of automatic selection?