Lee In On Merit

[Nibor]

But why does everyone ignore the fact that 90% of McAllister's performances are poor?? McAllister never gets dropped but that never gets mentioned.

If LJ played as badly as McAllister i would understand the critizism he gets....

Though I disagree that everyone ignores JMcA playing poorly (because I've seen a number of posters make that comment) there are a few reasons I think it doesn't get as much attention.

1. We have one left back. JMcA isn't keeping anybody out of the side.

2. Left back isn't central midfield. It isn't in the spine of the team. It doesn't have as much affect on the rest of the side IMO.

3. JMcA is a full blooded tackler and city fans like those. LJ doesn't tackle much and can look like he's bottling 50/50s sometimes which goes down like a s**t sandwich with any football crowd.

4. We don't have a problem defending much, we do have a problem creating.

Take all of those things into consideration and I think it's obvious why LJ gets more focus. I'm convinced that GJ would get criticism for continually selecting LJ even if they weren't related, it just wouldn't be as personal or contentious. If you look back, you'll see people criticising Danny Wilson for his love affair with players like Burnell and Peacock.

Same can be said for all those core 6/7 that GJ is talking about though...McAllister, Elliott, Basso, Orr, McIndoe. Don't think they've been dropped/subbed very often after poor displays?

I wouldn't advocate dropping any player after one or two poor displays, only after a long run of playing badly. My view is that of those you mention only McAllister has had a long bad run and we have no replacement for him. In my view LJ was poor for long stretches of this season, particularly in the first half, and we were playing a central midfielder out of position on the right wing at that time.

[Tunley Legend]

I think you have actually supported my statement - the spine in each team you mention always play the important games if fit.

LJ (for example) plays every game when fit - even when there's nothing to play for like the past few weeks.

Managers may have their first choice players, but I don't know of any who come out and say publicly that they will always be selected, and don't appear to do anything about improving that list of automatic selection?

I do agree with the part about the last few weeks. For people who like to be entertained and watch a bit of decent football (reading many posts on here it seems that I am ludicrous in expecting that when I go to football but never mind we all have different expectations) the Ipswich and Wednesday games were worse than watching paint dry and we learned absolutely nothing about the players in our squad. Henderson should have been starting after the Ipswich game if nothing else and we could also have taken the opportunity to look at alternative midfield and striking options perhaps. Iriekpen has been given a chance recently and hasn't done a bad job in my view. If nothing else we have learned that with him in the side we do not get taken to the cleaners with a bit of pace and movement like we do when McCombe is out there.

[BCFC_Dan]

There's actually nothing there that says GJ will not be looking to bring in a player to provide competition for and hopefully improve upon LJ. He might well be one of the core 6/7 players in the side at the moment but that doesn't mean those 6/7 players will be the same ones next season. We'll never see them all changed at once, obviously, but there's no reason why they can't be replaced individually over time.

[CHIPLEY RED]

there isnt a legitimate replacment for macca though is there. if JM was keeping players like GW and DN out of the side the same sort of critisism would go his way, the only player who could take his place happens to be our best centre half :|

You've hit the nail on the head.

LJ has been seen to get in the team in front of crowd favourites like Noble and now Williams so his inclusion in the team is under scrutiny as soon as the team is announced. The full backs have no real competition and aren't keeping a crowd favourite out thats why their critism is far less.

It does dissappoint me that GJ has 6/7 players that look like they will always play when fit. I think every player should be in the side on form and even the likes of Carey should have to fight for his place back after suspension or injury. If the players who come in perform they should keep their place no matter who is on the bench.

[wookey]

There's actually nothing there that says GJ will not be looking to bring in a player to provide competition for and hopefully improve upon LJ.

But we and Gary know he won't. Players that threaten Lee J's position in the side will be sold (ref: Carle) and he won't buy anyone who will 'provide competition for and hopefully improve upon LJ'. (ref Summer '08 & Jan '09).

I fervently hope that I am wrong.

[BCFC_Dan]

But we and Gary know he won't. Players that threaten Lee J's position in the side will be sold (ref: Carle) and he won't buy anyone who will 'provide competition for and hopefully improve upon LJ'. (ref Summer '08 & Jan '09).

I fervently hope that I am wrong.

Wouldn't or couldn't? Maybe the right player wasn't available at the right price last summer?

The reasons Carle was sold have absolutely nothing to do with Lee Johnson so far as I know and everything to do with Nick Carle.

Gary knows his players and he knows their limitations. Since he wants the club to progress he will at some point have to either replace Lee or make him into a top class player. I'd say the former would be easier and more likely than the latter but I don't really mind either option so long as we get the quality player we need.

[Whale Eye Beef Hooked]

I've never thought LJ was in the side on anything other than the manager's opinion of his contribution to the team.

I just think his opinion is wrong and we have central midfielders that would be more effective.

I am frustrated that even when LJ has a poor run of form we never try an alternative and seem to avoid every opportunity to do so.

With LJ in the middle of a 442 we have to play very tight to cover his defensive weakness and therefore don't have much width which leads to us going direct and scoring sod all goals.

What, like Gavin Williams on Saturday :noexpression: and before you say it, he adopted a central role and was not on the right, he was awfull

[Tunley Legend]

What, like Gavin Williams on Saturday :noexpression: and before you say it, he adopted a central role and was not on the right, he was awfull

Gavin Williams was awful on Saturday - worst player out there (with LJ being one of the very few good ones). But there have been at least two other occasions when he has been the best player on the pitch and provided more in an attacking sense than LJ ever will in my view. Gavin Williams having one bad game doesn't make Lee Johnson the answer to all of our problems!!

If GJ doesn't believe that GW can challenge for LJ's place (and lets be fair, it is "LJ's place" at present - he does own it!!) then my opinion is that he needs to sign someone else to challenge for it.

[westy]

What, like Gavin Williams on Saturday :noexpression: and before you say it, he adopted a central role and was not on the right, he was awfull

to be fair saturdays formation was just a mess - when have we seen Williams in CM in a 442?? When I read the team sheet I thought at last we'll see Elliott and Williams in the middle then read on 2 more names and realise that GJ thought we were chelsea

[Nibor]

What, like Gavin Williams on Saturday :noexpression: and before you say it, he adopted a central role and was not on the right, he was awfull

That's one performance. If one bad performance was... You can see where I'm going to go. Besides everyone was s**t on Saturday.

I think GW will be more effective in the middle of a 442 more often than LJ. But we won't know until we try him will we? And we haven't yet.

[NickJ]

"There are six or seven lads that are the nucleus of our team and I will pick them every week because I am trying to keep the continuity, which has been a key part in our success over the last couple of years.

"There are times people want me to leave him out, but I can't always do that because you just pick the team that you think will progress the club".

That extract is almost unbelievable.

I sympathise with the continuity angle, however, 6 or 7 players know they are an automatic choice every week regardless of how they play - what motivation does that give them?

[redrebel]

I personally find it pretty depressing that GJ states that Lee is in the team on merit.I don't believe that GJ would pick him because he is his son or that he is not one of the best Managers we have had.But the fact that week in week out someone can at times perform so badly with tackling,crosses,corners being laughable is guaranteed his place is a definate weakness of GJ as a Manager.To know we have more of the same nexr season is frankly really dissapointing.

[BCFC_Dan]

That extract is almost unbelievable.

I sympathise with the continuity angle, however, 6 or 7 players know they are an automatic choice every week regardless of how they play - what motivation does that give them?

Only because Gary knows he can trust them. I'm fairly certain that any one of them would be dropped if they put in repeated below-par performances.

[Economou]

That extract is almost unbelievable.

I sympathise with the continuity angle, however, 6 or 7 players know they are an automatic choice every week regardless of how they play - what motivation does that give them?

I doubt if GJ's policy is much different to most managers. Surely you have to pick your most reliaible performers ?

[freezer]

So basically more of the same next season then.......great, I'll bring along a Suduko puzzle book to keep me entertained.

[William Stand]

That extract is almost unbelievable.

I sympathise with the continuity angle, however, 6 or 7 players know they are an automatic choice every week regardless of how they play - what motivation does that give them?

Nick, I think many people are reading things far too literally.

It has seemed obvious to me for a while that Johnson has a "nucleus" of players he wishes to stick with & I would argue that's the same for any manager. However I don't think this means they are "untouchable", more so they are likely to be given another chance if they perform poorly - because on balance the manager expects them to do the business more often than not.

The most glaring example of this is with the keepers. Basso gets injuredd & is replaced by Weale - as soon as Weale makes an error, he tends to be dropped. If Basso than fouls up the next game, he still retains his place.

I see it that there are a No of players that the manager "trusts" to do the job more often than not. I don't think it means that any of them are bomb proof. For E.g at one stage McCombe was in the nucleus of trusted players..... not sure he is now though.

[bcfcbs20]

every league club has a core group of 5,6,7,8 players for the simple reason they are not in the premier league and most clubs cant afford two teams of 11 of the same quality also keeping hold of players that are good but only play when the first choice player is out of form would be off like a shot looking for first team football at another club

[BCFC_Dan]

Even Premier League clubs have a central spine of players who will almost always play when fit. Man Utd have more capacity than most for swapping players around but don't tend to deviate from the spine of Van Der Sar, Fedinand, Vidic, Carrick etc. unless a game is "less important" or players are unavailable.

For all the talk of needing competition for places it is almost always the teams which use the fewest players over a season who perform the best.

[Nibor]

Even Premier League clubs have a central spine of players who will almost always play when fit. Man Utd have more capacity than most for swapping players around but don't tend to deviate from the spine of Van Der Sar, Fedinand, Vidic, Carrick etc. unless a game is "less important" or players are unavailable.

For all the talk of needing competition for places it is almost always the teams which use the fewest players over a season who perform the best.

The argument would be that Premier League clubs don't have a central spine of players who almost always play when fit if they have a sustained period of bad form or just aren't good enough to take the club forward.

Whether you think a player's form is bad or they're not good enough is obviously subjective but IMO LJ ranged from poor to terrible for the first 30 games or so of this season and even when he was injured we didn't give either of our other creative midfielders a go in the middle of a 442.

Bottom line for me is, this debate will not end ever unless the manager gives another player that chance for a good run of games and they come up noticeably short.

[BCFC_Dan]

The argument would be that Premier League clubs don't have a central spine of players who almost always play when fit if they have a sustained period of bad form or just aren't good enough to take the club forward.

Whether you think a player's form is bad or they're not good enough is obviously subjective but IMO LJ ranged from poor to terrible for the first 30 games or so of this season and even when he was injured we didn't give either of our other creative midfielders a go in the middle of a 442.

Bottom line for me is, this debate will not end ever unless the manager gives another player that chance for a good run of games and they come up noticeably short.

Whether or not you think LJ was good enough during that period is, as you say, subjective, but I think you will find that most mangers, successful ones anyway, will always respond to periods of difficulty by going with players they know. LJ may have been below par during that period but at least GJ would have known exactly what to expect from him. It was not the time to be experimenting.

Besides that, I don't think there were any viable alternatives as neither Williams nor Noble was consistently fit enough.

The trouble with your bottom line is that it's a results business and GJ can't make a change that would, in his opinion, make victory less likely simply to prove a point. He has to go with what he believes is right and if he turns out to be wrong he will ultimately lose his job.

[Nibor]

Whether or not you think LJ was good enough during that period is, as you say, subjective, but I think you will find that most mangers, successful ones anyway, will always respond to periods of difficulty by going with players they know. LJ may have been below par during that period but at least GJ would have known exactly what to expect from him. It was not the time to be experimenting.

I think the time to experiment was the summer previous where we absolutely should have signed a central midfielder.

Besides that, I don't think there were any viable alternatives as neither Williams nor Noble was consistently fit enough.

This is speculation in IMO inaccurate given that Williams was playing at the time and Noble was perfectly fit to play for the reserves and go on loan.

The trouble with your bottom line is that it's a results business and GJ can't make a change that would, in his opinion, make victory less likely simply to prove a point. He has to go with what he believes is right and if he turns out to be wrong he will ultimately lose his job.

I'm not suggesting he prove a point, I'm suggesting he either change his strategy of guaranteeing a place for core players who underperform for long periods or acknowledge that there is a weakness in a team that cannot score goals despite 6 strikers costing over £40k a week and £4m transfer fees in total and address it properly.

[big p]

There have been times this year that LJ has played well,but there has been alot more times this year that he has been shocking.If there is no healthy competition then I cant see it getting any better.Trouble is does GJ actually see it when LJ doesnt perform,I don't think he does.So there lies the problem,its not his fault he keeps getting picked,is it.He trys his best but his best aint good enough most of the time.Next season I would like to see CS and GW in centre midfield,(if elliot goes).But I don't think this will happen and the only reason LJ wont be in our midfield is if he is injured / suspended.or GJ leaves the club.Sorry all the pro LJ fans but this is how i see it.

[BCFC_Dan]

I think the time to experiment was the summer previous where we absolutely should have signed a central midfielder.

Yes, I think something went wrong there probably. I hope it can be addressed this summer. If it isn't I may start to agree with you....

This is speculation in IMO inaccurate given that Williams was playing at the time and Noble was perfectly fit to play for the reserves and go on loan.

I don't think Williams really hit form until after Christmas and wasn't properly match-fit, hence he was in and out of the side a lot. Noble, well I don't know to be honest but Johnson seemed to think he wasn't a viable option for whatever reason.

I'm not suggesting he prove a point, I'm suggesting he either change his strategy of guaranteeing a place for core players who underperform for long periods or acknowledge that there is a weakness in a team that cannot score goals despite 6 strikers costing over £40k a week and £4m transfer fees in total and address it properly.

I don't see anything to suggest he doesn't acknowledge it. Don't forget we're only 2 seasons up from league one and can't really expect to dominate every team in this league (that said, Swansea and Doncaster have done a good job of playing free-flowing football in their first seasons up, but will they push on next season?)

I am a little concerned that he will try to solve the problem simply by signing more strikers rather than looking at the service to the strikers. Again I think this summer will be a good judge as he'll have plenty of time to sort things out unlike last year and we should be a better draw to players being an established Championship side now.

Basically I can see your concerns but I don't yet believe that Johnson can't or won't see them himself. If the concerns remain after the summer then I may join you.

[bcfcbs20]

There have been times this year that LJ has played well,but there has been alot more times this year that he has been shocking.If there is no healthy competition then I cant see it getting any better.Trouble is does GJ actually see it when LJ doesnt perform,I don't think he does.So there lies the problem,its not his fault he keeps getting picked,is it.He trys his best but his best aint good enough most of the time.Next season I would like to see CS and GW in centre midfield,(if elliot goes).But I don't think this will happen and the only reason LJ wont be in our midfield is if he is injured / suspended.or GJ leaves the club.Sorry all the pro LJ fans but this is how i see it.

lj has put in much better performances than who ever has played rm in fact i can count on one hand how many 90 mins of good performances has been put in on the right yet hardly anyone brings this up yet lj gets slaughtered when he perfoms much better than our rm

[big p]

lj has put in much better performances than who ever has played rm in fact i can count on one hand how many 90 mins of good performances has been put in on the right yet hardly anyone brings this up yet lj gets slaughtered when he perfoms much better than our rm

Who else have had a run in rm then,I can only think CS and I think hes been one of the most improved players this year.

[bcfcbs20]

Who else have had a run in rm then,I can only think CS and I think hes been one of the most improved players this year.

sproule, wilson, williams cant remember skuse playing out wide but that has been our worst postition all season yet people still go on about lj like a broken record blah blah blah blah blah gets boring after a while

[big p]

sproule, wilson, williams cant remember skuse playing out wide but that has been our worst postition all season yet people still go on about lj like a broken record blah blah blah blah blah gets boring after a while

sorry thought you meant right centre midfield,your right hes not the only one.But I recon he will replace sproule on the right,but he wont replace LJ,no way.

[big p]

sproule, wilson, williams cant remember skuse playing out wide but that has been our worst postition all season yet people still go on about lj like a broken record blah blah blah blah blah gets boring after a while

If its boring you why are posting posts.??????????

Peolple are always going to criticise LJ its the Gaffers son.Do you think he should be protected because hes the GJs son.I think Alex Bruce had the same when he played under his dad.

[bcfcbs20]

If its boring you why are posting posts.??????????

Peolple are always going to criticise LJ its the Gaffers son.Do you think he should be protected because hes the GJs son.I think Alex Bruce had the same when he played under his dad.

i reply because the stuff that gets written is out of order

now answer my question why is it no one bangs on about the one postition we have been poor all season rm

[big p]

i reply because the stuff that gets written is out of order

now answer my question why is it no one bangs on about the one postition we have been poor all season rm

I think they do ,but in my oppinion centre midfield is the most important position on the pitch.The centre midfielder needs to able to attack and defend.