tompo Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 If Hull City go down this year it will be their best league finish ever - will all their fans be happy after their mid season collapse? People can put whatever spin on our current position that they wish. Its true that we haven't been 10th in the second tier for years, but many people look at last season, saw how the rails fell off in the latter stages of that term, and how the patchy form has continued to the extent that the last segment of this season has been relegation standard. Didn't the falling off the rails coincide with LJ getting injured? If so its likely that the patchy form would have continued irrespective of who played in his role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Stand Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Didn't the falling off the rails coincide with LJ getting injured? If so its likely that the patchy form would have continued irrespective of who played in his role. You don't get it Tompo. LJ is rubbish. Apparently the fact our form when he was injured last season was awful only helps to prove this ......... Interestingly, last season when LJ was rubbish we only did well as Marv was putting in "super human" peformances, which led to him getting injured. Marv has missed much of this season & when he's played has been nothing like the player of last season. You'd think with centre midfield being the most important positon on the pitch, no super human Marv & rubbish LJ we'd have been relegated by Xmas, but no we somehow finished 10th. It really does beg the question.......... just how bad were Norwich, Soton & Charlton ???????? :noexpression: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bully Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Johnson does have an ego. Frankly I don't care about the personality of the manager, much rather base my opinion on results etc. Talking of ego's, isn't it funny how all the top managers are shy retiring types. Apparantly Ferguson runs MUFC as a pure democracy where everyone gets an equal say.......... Correct on all points William - Top managers have egos, and opinions should be based on results. I think no one is arguing there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bully Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Didn't the falling off the rails coincide with LJ getting injured? If so its likely that the patchy form would have continued irrespective of who played in his role. To be honest Tompo I think it started with the Boro cup game in terms of form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Stand Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Correct on all points William - Top managers have egos, and opinions should be based on results. I think no one is arguing there. Where we differ I guess is that I feel for where we are as a club right now, results that take us to 10th in the table, one of our best postions in years, are good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 I accept what you're trying to say Spike, but I can't accept that "Lee Johnson causes issues". A number of supporters cause the issues, and it would be grossly unfair to move on a player that has done nothing wrong and doesn't want to move, just to appease a certain section of BCFC followers. If we get a better midfield player in, and LJ moves on as a result of that, then that's fine and I will be applauding along with everyone else, but to ship out a player just because he is the Manager's son is just plain wrong. I agree, it is wrong and it is unfair and I'm totally with you on that however if the fans are going to boo him and give him abuse and won't back GJ on his decision to play him don't you think it would be better for LJ to move to another club where he has a fresh start and we can bring in a new midfielder that would excite the fans and then LJ wouldn't be wrongly attacked by fans booing him when he's done nothing wrong, GJ wouldn't have to put up with the fans who don't like LJ being in the team and SL wouldn't have to get involved and back up both GJ and LJ against those fans. I think LJ will continue to be booed no matter how well he plays as some people will never see past the bosses son title. In time this will make GJ bitter, a number of fans will then turn on GJ and it will result in GJ leaving... I think thats my main worry. GJ is a great manager and LJ has proved he can play good football but I think a father son relationship is far stronger than any contract or love of a job. In a perfect worl the fans unfairly booing LJ should shut up and let him get on with it but it won't happen. I was not a big fan of Lj and I'm still not a big fan but I certainly think he has proven he can do the job and wants to do the job. I won't be complaining about him again unless he starts to slack off again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tompo Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Where we differ I guess is that I feel for where we are as a club right now, results that take us to 10th in the table, one of our best postions in years, are good enough. Interestingly there is another thread where GJ as a manager is being compared to Alan Dicks and Joe Jordan. Our finishing postions for the first 4 seasons under Alan Dicks were 67/68 19th 68/69 16th 69/70 14th 70/71 19th That was in a 22 team league. Probably just as well for him there were internet forums then, although the crowd regularly wanted "Dicks out"!!! Perhaps expectations were lower then, perhaps chairmen were more patient but how long would have AD lasted if he were managing the club now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bully Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Where we differ I guess is that I feel for where we are as a club right now, results that take us to 10th in the table, one of our best postions in years, are good enough. I expected mid table with the squad we have/had - that doesn't mean i'm happy with how we have got there in terms of home performances, nor the alarming run of results to the end of the season. If we pick up next term where we have left off then it will be difficult so GJ has to do something other than standing by his men if necessary. I don't think its unreasonable to expect that from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Stand Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 I expected mid table with the squad we have/had - that doesn't mean i'm happy with how we have got there in terms of home performances, nor the alarming run of results to the end of the season. If we pick up next term where we have left off then it will be difficult so GJ has to do something other than standing by his men if necessary. I don't think its unreasonable to expect that from him. Lots of folk seem to be saying the same - they expected mid table, but somehow now it's happened they aren't happy with how it's happened. I really struggle with this - if you finish mid table you are either going to be absurdly inconsistent or have some good runs & some bad runs. We started pretty well, then dipped badly. We really picked up in Jan & Feb & then finished poorly. I don't buy the "alarming run of results at the end of the season" bit which again lots harp on about. Its no more valid or sensible than me saying "if we can just take our form of Jan & Feb & extrapolate it across the whole season... BINGO we'll be promoted". I don't see any sense in looking at parts of the season in isolation, whether they be good parts or bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bully Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 I don't buy the "alarming run of results at the end of the season" bit which again lots harp on about. Its no more valid or sensible than me saying "if we can just take our form of Jan & Feb & extrapolate it across the whole season... BINGO we'll be promoted". I don't see any sense in looking at parts of the season in isolation, whether they be good parts or bad. The most recent form is by far the most relevant - why on earth can't you see that? Apart from Louis, who was unavailable for a material spell during that period? - can't point to an injury crisis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Stand Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 The most recent form is by far the most relevant - why on earth can't you see that? Apart from Louis, who was unavailable for a material spell during that period? - can't point to an injury crisis. You only had to look at the team from the Ipswich game onwards to see their hearts & minds were on a beach, not a football field. When we played the likes of Burnley & Swansea, we had nothing to play for & they had everything. I would always back a team with a cause against a team without. In the home games against Wednesday & Ipswich we did as we did pretty much all season - got a goal & failed to see the game out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltshoveller Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Personally I'm glad the Chairman has come out and said this and I agree totally with his comments. Seems he is more perceptive than some fans. LJ is one of our best players, occasionally he has his mad moments ie. unaccountably giving the ball to the opposition, but these are more than compensated by his general all round play. What do expect our chairman to say "Lee Johnson is rubbish and cant understand why his dad picks him every week" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo1111 Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Lots of folk seem to be saying the same - they expected mid table, but somehow now it's happened they aren't happy with how it's happened. I really struggle with this - if you finish mid table you are either going to be absurdly inconsistent or have some good runs & some bad runs. We started pretty well, then dipped badly. We really picked up in Jan & Feb & then finished poorly. I don't buy the "alarming run of results at the end of the season" bit which again lots harp on about. Its no more valid or sensible than me saying "if we can just take our form of Jan & Feb & extrapolate it across the whole season... BINGO we'll be promoted". I don't see any sense in looking at parts of the season in isolation, whether they be good parts or bad. but GJ does, hence his blocks of ten analysis. and its always going to be the last block of ten thats the most relevant. our last block of ten was shocking. whether we had the flip flops on or not you would of expected at least a couple more wins, at least against the sides who also were mid table. i think people have a right to be concerned. ive already forked out for my season ticket, and would regardless of where we finished. but if GJ doesnt get his deals right this summer i think next year could be a bit of a slog and at the moment I'm nervously waiting to see who we bring in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Stand Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 but GJ does, hence his blocks of ten analysis. and its always going to be the last block of ten thats the most relevant. our last block of ten was shocking. whether we had the flip flops on or not you would of expected at least a couple more wins, at least against the sides who also were mid table. i think people have a right to be concerned. ive already forked out for my season ticket, and would regardless of where we finished. but if GJ doesnt get his deals right this summer i think next year could be a bit of a slog and at the moment I'm nervously waiting to see who we bring in. Me too. Whilst the season is unfolding I can see the sense in it, but at the end of the season it's the overall position that matters. I'd have expected some wins too, but in practically every home game we threw away a lead to a late or soft (ot both!) goal. That was a feature of our entire season. I expect us to make some sensible acquisitions & I see no reason to fear next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo1111 Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 Me too. Whilst the season is unfolding I can see the sense in it, but at the end of the season it's the overall position that matters. I'd have expected some wins too, but in practically every home game we threw away a lead to a late or soft (ot both!) goal. That was a feature of our entire season. I expect us to make some sensible acquisitions & I see no reason to fear next season. judging by the business we did last summer I'm not as confident. the metab and Mifsud fiascos paired with the lack of a replacement for carle (jones was rumoured but went to wolves). but time will tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Economou Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 What do expect our chairman to say "Lee Johnson is rubbish and cant understand why his dad picks him every week" He didn't have to say anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rednready Posted May 6, 2009 Report Share Posted May 6, 2009 I see Maggie Lansdown's computor is on this thread so there is interest in the forum debate. Lets back up to pre Christmas, I made the comment that considering our restricted squad and budget, GJ would do well to get us between the playoffs and halfway in the division. Add to that, plenty of good judges, both fans at the ground and on the forum were saying that we lacked the quality to equal the previous seasons schievements. Now at seasons end we have GJ saying he had hoped his current players would have made the playoffs like last season. His players and judgement have proved less than the requirements for his hopes. SL meanwhile has found it necessary to comment on the festering sore that is LJ's tenure at BCFC. I mentioned some time ago that many major corporations will not hire close family in the same sphere of activities. It can cause accusations of collusion and favourtism, exactly whats happening in our club. Some 35 years ago my nephew was fired, because he was my nephew and it was a corporate policy, not just here but world wide. I disagreed with the policy but over the past 20 plus years I have experienced instances where the policy has proved wise and sound. My stance on LJ has been consistent. He was above average at league 1 and barely average at Championship level. He keeps fit, puts in 90 minute and is a good pro. His ability to affect the game is minimal, he turns up, puts in a shift, but affect the game on a consistent basis ? Not in my opinion, we need better to move forward. Regardless of comments by GJ,SL and LJ's supporters, this situation will not go away. It has polarised the fans into two camps. That is unhealthy for our club, we are fighting from within, rather than pulling together. GJ and SL have made their opinions public, so its best we all get used to clubs stance on the matter, its not about to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ison Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 I see Maggie Lansdown's computor is on this thread so there is interest in the forum debate. Lets back up to pre Christmas, I made the comment that considering our restricted squad and budget, GJ would do well to get us between the playoffs and halfway in the division. Add to that, plenty of good judges, both fans at the ground and on the forum were saying that we lacked the quality to equal the previous seasons schievements. Now at seasons end we have GJ saying he had hoped his current players would have made the playoffs like last season. His players and judgement have proved less than the requirements for his hopes. SL meanwhile has found it necessary to comment on the festering sore that is LJ's tenure at BCFC. I mentioned some time ago that many major corporations will not hire close family in the same sphere of activities. It can cause accusations of collusion and favourtism, exactly whats happening in our club. Some 35 years ago my nephew was fired, because he was my nephew and it was a corporate policy, not just here but world wide. I disagreed with the policy but over the past 20 plus years I have experienced instances where the policy has proved wise and sound. My stance on LJ has been consistent. He was above average at league 1 and barely average at Championship level. He keeps fit, puts in 90 minute and is a good pro. His ability to affect the game is minimal, he turns up, puts in a shift, but affect the game on a consistent basis ? Not in my opinion, we need better to move forward. Regardless of comments by GJ,SL and LJ's supporters, this situation will not go away. It has polarised the fans into two camps. That is unhealthy for our club, we are fighting from within, rather than pulling together. GJ and SL have made their opinions public, so its best we all get used to clubs stance on the matter, its not about to change. Good post. I've played in football teams where the manager's son has been more or less guaranteed a starting place, and it does cause unrest. Even if the player in question is very talented, those players that play in the same position behind him in the pecking order (regardless of whether or not they're superior), will always attribute the manager's son's selection to the fact that he's the manager's son. It's not just the players that have been displaced that are put out either, other squad players are always going to be aware of what's going on. All in all, whilst at City this might not amount to Johnson losing the dressing room, it's hardly going to work wonders for morale is it? Don't get me wrong - Lee Johnson can be a quality player on his day, but even if he was twice as good as he is I think the cost of mixing family loyalties with business decisions is far great than the potential benefits. If you're Messi or Ronaldo Snr. then it's a different story altogether, but let's face it LJ isn't winning the Ballon d'Or any time soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo1111 Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 in todays evil post there is an article with quotes from GJ claiming that his most difficult task this summer is finding a twenty goal a season striker. personally i think torres would struggle to get 20 with the supply line from our midfield. GJ's primary concern this summer should be getting our midfield to create more chances and recruiting new personnel who can do this. but alas it is quite clear that changes will not be made in midfield for me. all we will get is a replacement for marv if he leaves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ooRya Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 I agree, it is wrong and it is unfair and I'm totally with you on that however if the fans are going to boo him and give him abuse and won't back GJ on his decision to play him don't you think it would be better for LJ to move to another club where he has a fresh start and we can bring in a new midfielder that would excite the fans and then LJ wouldn't be wrongly attacked by fans booing him when he's done nothing wrong, GJ wouldn't have to put up with the fans who don't like LJ being in the team and SL wouldn't have to get involved and back up both GJ and LJ against those fans. I think LJ will continue to be booed no matter how well he plays as some people will never see past the bosses son title. In time this will make GJ bitter, a number of fans will then turn on GJ and it will result in GJ leaving... I think thats my main worry. GJ is a great manager and LJ has proved he can play good football but I think a father son relationship is far stronger than any contract or love of a job. In a perfect worl the fans unfairly booing LJ should shut up and let him get on with it but it won't happen. I was not a big fan of Lj and I'm still not a big fan but I certainly think he has proven he can do the job and wants to do the job. I won't be complaining about him again unless he starts to slack off again. Well, we will have to agree to disagree on this, but I see where you're coming from. I must also say that it makes a refreshing change to get an "anti LJ poster" - if you'll excuse me calling you that - that has actually thought things through before posting, rather than the normal drivel spouted by those that have just decided to jump on the bandwagon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spike Posted May 7, 2009 Report Share Posted May 7, 2009 Well, we will have to agree to disagree on this, but I see where you're coming from. I must also say that it makes a refreshing change to get an "anti LJ poster" - if you'll excuse me calling you that - that has actually thought things through before posting, rather than the normal drivel spouted by those that have just decided to jump on the bandwagon! haha I wouldn't consider myself anti LJ, I'd just like there to be no family ties within the important roles of the club as then no-one can shout favourtism the second they disagree with the manager Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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