Gj Has Signed A Midfielder Which I Said He Wouldn't

[Donkeeebles]

Or shown for what it is.

The trouble is however sarcastically its wrote the possibility of Hartley being out on the right is something that thousands of City fans are thinking at this moment!

I personally cant believe that Gj only picks Lj because he is his son,i cant see that any CCC manager would do that but at this moment even i am sceptical as to whether the performances of the other CM's no matter how good they are would displace him!

Even the strongest GJ supporters cant blame any fan who thinks the same way as the opening poster!

[bully]

To use it to slag him off is wrong i agree but this signing is relevant to Lj because its his position so to discuss the possible permutations is surely expected! How we can discuss central midfield without mentioning Lj is nigh on an impossibility!

I think Marvin could yet leave although its more likely to be a 3 man central midfield set up - I see LJ as a nailed down selection as is Hartley and Elliot.

With these Scots recently signed in or close to the national team, George Burley will probably be down AG a lot more so who knows, maybe LJ will get some recognition which I think the manager thinks is overdue anyway.

[bristolcitysweden]

With Hartley and Elliott in central midfield we don't need a third man.

I believe we will play 4-4-2 and if we occasionally should play a third man it should be Gavin Williams.

LJ & CS should be good cover up in case of injuries.

[Jordan Tansley]

I agree that this sort of thread is pointless, and saying that will continue to offer my thoughts... because i am equally as pointless!

I too am concerned and intrigued by how next season now pans out. The team selections this season should once and for all settle the argumentabout nepotism. If a player of the calibre of Hartley is played out of position to accomidate LJ (and I will not allow myself to hear that LJ merits a place ahead of Hartley or Elliot) then the only two reasons applicable for his continued selection are the "N" word, or that the Manager genuinly over-rates Lee.

But thats all speculation, It might not happen that we play anyone out of position, It might happen that LJ drops in the pecking order.

The other scenario banded about so far has been the option of changing our tactics. This might garuntee Lee his place, but should it? I mean at home we should be playing both Gavin and Hartley to attack sides, with Marvin or Skuse sitting, away from home it might be wise to have both Skuse and Elliot sitting with Hartley roaming around. I don't see where LJ fits in to either tactic and adds anything more than the other two options. Gavin is good going forward, and better than LJ at that. Skuse is better than LJ defensively.

So, I cant see LJ in a 3 man midfield either.

I don't think the 3 man midfield would help us either. we lack a target man for the striker role, and i cant see Maynard or Clarkson being too happy about playing the advanced winger role. no, 4-4-2 is the way. we have a predator and an engine, getting quality balls in the box is what is required to utilise their strengths.

Mccindoe leaving means we get rid of a player who doesn't play on the wing, and to progress i feel the next player to play there for us should be an "Out and out" winger. Chris Taylor is attracting interest on the forums and from what i've seen in brief stints on tele is that he plays that role for his current club and would be an ideal winger for us.

on the right hand side we have a winger. a winger who always threatens much and delivers little, but a player who makes us play in an aggressive and attacking style. I would pick Sproule for that reason alone, I feel the space he creates with his direct running and pace may not directly create chances often, but its spreads the opposition wide, and creates openings for the creative forces such as Hartley and Williams to not only operate in, but utilise to create chances for our strike force.

I feel we now have an energetic enough pair in the middle to allow us to sacrfice the "tucking in" policy of Johnson, and to replace it with out and out wingplay. the wider you spread the opposition the more gaps appear, something that Maynard was not given last season, resulting in him being crowded out and muscled off the ball.

Overall, I'm excited by this season, If LJ is now down the pecking order. If Hartley fails then LJ or Williams will get their chance to retake the spot within the side, but the season should start with Bristol City having a central midfield partnership that has enough quality to hold its own in the Premier League. We need a winger on the left, and Taylor fits the bill perfectly, we need to strengthen at centre half as mccombe is ut of his depth and we need a third option up front, with power rather than pace the focus.

The squad looks like its about right, now all that needs to be done is for the selections to be right, and the tactics correct and we can seriously expect a top 6 finish this season.

[chowie]

I agree that this sort of thread is pointless, and saying that will continue to offer my thoughts... because i am equally as pointless!

I too am concerned and intrigued by how next season now pans out. The team selections this season should once and for all settle the argumentabout nepotism. If a player of the calibre of Hartley is played out of position to accomidate LJ (and I will not allow myself to hear that LJ merits a place ahead of Hartley or Elliot) then the only two reasons applicable for his continued selection are the "N" word, or that the Manager genuinly over-rates Lee.

But thats all speculation, It might not happen that we play anyone out of position, It might happen that LJ drops in the pecking order.

The other scenario banded about so far has been the option of changing our tactics. This might garuntee Lee his place, but should it? I mean at home we should be playing both Gavin and Hartley to attack sides, with Marvin or Skuse sitting, away from home it might be wise to have both Skuse and Elliot sitting with Hartley roaming around. I don't see where LJ fits in to either tactic and adds anything more than the other two options. Gavin is good going forward, and better than LJ at that. Skuse is better than LJ defensively.

So, I cant see LJ in a 3 man midfield either.

I don't think the 3 man midfield would help us either. we lack a target man for the striker role, and i cant see Maynard or Clarkson being too happy about playing the advanced winger role. no, 4-4-2 is the way. we have a predator and an engine, getting quality balls in the box is what is required to utilise their strengths.

Mccindoe leaving means we get rid of a player who doesn't play on the wing, and to progress i feel the next player to play there for us should be an "Out and out" winger. Chris Taylor is attracting interest on the forums and from what i've seen in brief stints on tele is that he plays that role for his current club and would be an ideal winger for us.

on the right hand side we have a winger. a winger who always threatens much and delivers little, but a player who makes us play in an aggressive and attacking style. I would pick Sproule for that reason alone, I feel the space he creates with his direct running and pace may not directly create chances often, but its spreads the opposition wide, and creates openings for the creative forces such as Hartley and Williams to not only operate in, but utilise to create chances for our strike force.

I feel we now have an energetic enough pair in the middle to allow us to sacrfice the "tucking in" policy of Johnson, and to replace it with out and out wingplay. the wider you spread the opposition the more gaps appear, something that Maynard was not given last season, resulting in him being crowded out and muscled off the ball.

Overall, I'm excited by this season, If LJ is now down the pecking order. If Hartley fails then LJ or Williams will get their chance to retake the spot within the side, but the season should start with Bristol City having a central midfield partnership that has enough quality to hold its own in the Premier League. We need a winger on the left, and Taylor fits the bill perfectly, we need to strengthen at centre half as mccombe is ut of his depth and we need a third option up front, with power rather than pace the focus.

The squad looks like its about right, now all that needs to be done is for the selections to be right, and the tactics correct and we can seriously expect a top 6 finish this season.

Nice post, i tend to agree the majority of play will be 4-4-2 yes we will change it about from time to time and within games as it permits. The thing that I find concerning is the wings, am I correct in saying that when GJ was asked why our wingers were tucking in last season his reply was basically because our wingers were not good enough wingers?

[Nibor]

Nice post, i tend to agree the majority of play will be 4-4-2 yes we will change it about from time to time and within games as it permits. The thing that I find concerning is the wings, am I correct in saying that when GJ was asked why our wingers were tucking in last season his reply was basically because our wingers were not good enough wingers?

"Some people moaned at me that we have no width, but you have to earn that width by winning the battle and breaking from in to out."

In other words, the wingers were tucked in on instruction to help "win the battle" which we never really did.

Doesn't stop people from blaming the best left winger we've had since Dave Smith for it though...

http://www.bcfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,1...1421500,00.html

[cheese]

I agree that this sort of thread is pointless, and saying that will continue to offer my thoughts... because i am equally as pointless!

I too am concerned and intrigued by how next season now pans out. The team selections this season should once and for all settle the argumentabout nepotism. If a player of the calibre of Hartley is played out of position to accomidate LJ (and I will not allow myself to hear that LJ merits a place ahead of Hartley or Elliot) then the only two reasons applicable for his continued selection are the "N" word, or that the Manager genuinly over-rates Lee.

But thats all speculation, It might not happen that we play anyone out of position, It might happen that LJ drops in the pecking order.

The other scenario banded about so far has been the option of changing our tactics. This might garuntee Lee his place, but should it? I mean at home we should be playing both Gavin and Hartley to attack sides, with Marvin or Skuse sitting, away from home it might be wise to have both Skuse and Elliot sitting with Hartley roaming around. I don't see where LJ fits in to either tactic and adds anything more than the other two options. Gavin is good going forward, and better than LJ at that. Skuse is better than LJ defensively.

So, I cant see LJ in a 3 man midfield either.

I don't think the 3 man midfield would help us either. we lack a target man for the striker role, and i cant see Maynard or Clarkson being too happy about playing the advanced winger role. no, 4-4-2 is the way. we have a predator and an engine, getting quality balls in the box is what is required to utilise their strengths.

Mccindoe leaving means we get rid of a player who doesn't play on the wing, and to progress i feel the next player to play there for us should be an "Out and out" winger. Chris Taylor is attracting interest on the forums and from what i've seen in brief stints on tele is that he plays that role for his current club and would be an ideal winger for us.

on the right hand side we have a winger. a winger who always threatens much and delivers little, but a player who makes us play in an aggressive and attacking style. I would pick Sproule for that reason alone, I feel the space he creates with his direct running and pace may not directly create chances often, but its spreads the opposition wide, and creates openings for the creative forces such as Hartley and Williams to not only operate in, but utilise to create chances for our strike force.

I feel we now have an energetic enough pair in the middle to allow us to sacrfice the "tucking in" policy of Johnson, and to replace it with out and out wingplay. the wider you spread the opposition the more gaps appear, something that Maynard was not given last season, resulting in him being crowded out and muscled off the ball.

Overall, I'm excited by this season, If LJ is now down the pecking order. If Hartley fails then LJ or Williams will get their chance to retake the spot within the side, but the season should start with Bristol City having a central midfield partnership that has enough quality to hold its own in the Premier League. We need a winger on the left, and Taylor fits the bill perfectly, we need to strengthen at centre half as mccombe is ut of his depth and we need a third option up front, with power rather than pace the focus.

The squad looks like its about right, now all that needs to be done is for the selections to be right, and the tactics correct and we can seriously expect a top 6 finish this season.

So, before a ball has been kicked in pre-season, you've decided that Hartley should be picked ahead of LJ? Personally I'd like to see how they shape up in pre-season before making that judgement - Hartley should have to earn his place like the rest of them.

[megansdad]

looks like we have added a quality midfielder to the mix. keeping elliotwould be another major positive. LJ will still be an important part of the squad as will Hartley, Marvin, Cole Skuse and Williams - i personally hope Frankie Artus also gets a look in from time to time. Instead of worrying about who exactly will line up and what the formation will be why not just celebrate the fact that midfield is an area where we now look pretty strong.

I also think we have plenty of defensive resources and the only clubs still to acquire for gj's bag are a big lump up front and a left winger, though again with 7 subs would expect Akinde to be involved on matchdays, and on the assumption McIndoe does indeed depart.

[Riaz]

On another forum, a scottish supporter says he's more of a box to box, not really that creative

[Jordan Tansley]

So, before a ball has been kicked in pre-season, you've decided that Hartley should be picked ahead of LJ? Personally I'd like to see how they shape up in pre-season before making that judgement - Hartley should have to earn his place like the rest of them.

Yes, thats exactly what i've decided. Hartley is the man that kept LJ out of the hearts team, arguably a better standard than the championship

Hartley is a Scotland regular

Hartley Played over 30 games for an established champions league side last season

Hartley immediately merits the starting place and first opportunity to impress.

[megansdad]

A lot will depend on what other signings we make I would assume - no winger and McIndoe leaves will likely see us start 4-3-3 and hopefully trying to play the ball through midfield in whcih case both LJ and hartelye could well start.

Happy to leave those tricky decisions to GJ

[everhopeful]

The trouble is however sarcastically its wrote the possibility of Hartley being out on the right is something that thousands of City fans are thinking at this moment!

I personally cant believe that Gj only picks Lj because he is his son,i cant see that any CCC manager would do that but at this moment even i am sceptical as to whether the performances of the other CM's no matter how good they are would displace him!

Even the strongest GJ supporters cant blame any fan who thinks the same way as the opening poster!

Agree with that.

It may be that not all posters have the supreme command of the English language that the likes of Cynic and Edson like to credit themselves with but whether put sarcastically or not very clearly it is certainly o a valid concern for very many fans both on this forum and for those who don't subscribe.

LJ has been an ever present as our right side central midfielder, whatever his form.

Carle was played out of position unless LJ was injured. Williams has rarely played in his best position.

On occasions our tactics and formation seem to have been determined by the teamsheet and not the opposition.

Now we have signed a right sided midfielder and posters are concerned, given the past history, that he will not be played in his best position.

Whatever words they use to express that concern ( and on any forum there will always be varying levels of literacy ) it seems to me to be a completely valid and justified concern that this forum was created to debate.

Nothing to do with LJ bashing or nepotism just a concern as I say, based on what has gone before.

[edson]

Agree with that.

It may be that not all posters have the supreme command of the English language that the likes of Cynic and Edson like to credit themselves with but whether put sarcastically or not very clearly it is certainly o a valid concern for very many fans both on this forum and for those who don't subscribe.

LJ has been an ever present as our right side central midfielder, whatever his form.

Carle was played out of position unless LJ was injured. Williams has rarely played in his best position.

On occasions our tactics and formation seem to have been determined by the teamsheet and not the opposition.

Now we have signed a right sided midfielder and posters are concerned, given the past history, that he will not be played in his best position.

Whatever words they use to express that concern ( and on any forum there will always be varying levels of literacy ) it seems to me to be a completely valid and justified concern that this forum was created to debate.

Nothing to do with LJ bashing or nepotism just a concern as I say, based on what has gone before.

Have you seen the press conference interview with Gary Johnson today?

[Jordan Tansley]

Have you seen the press conference interview with Gary Johnson today?

fill me in, I haven't seen anything.

[edson]

fill me in, I haven't seen anything.

Q. Do you see him (Hartley) being able to play in any position in the midfield?

A. I can see him playing in a two in midfield or in a three in midfield. I don't see him as a wide player. He can also play the one just behind the front player as well, if you need him to.

[screech]

I personally think we will see a revitalised Lee Johnson this season with the luxury of Hartley and Elliott alongside him in a midfield 3, it gives him a license to get forward a bit more.

Perhaps Maynard will be able to play off the last defender if we have a strong midfield.

One things for sure, it has given us some good options and we should be able to adapt to a more attacking or defensive formation depending on circumstances given that Skuse and Williams are likely to be on the bench.

I don't think Johnsons position is up in the air at all, in fact it makes more of a case for him to start. 4 4 2 is very much out of fashion these days.

[Jordan Tansley]

Reassuring that he see's him that way, but i suppose it's slightly concerning to hear him already talking about a midfield three.

I like that the tactic that has brought us most success under johnson is still in his mind, even if the chief exponent of said tactic is now without a club

This season promises to be one of the most intriguing under Gary's reign, I actually cannot wait!

[Nibor]

Q. Do you see him (Hartley) being able to play in any position in the midfield?

A. I can see him playing in a two in midfield or in a three in midfield. I don't see him as a wide player. He can also play the one just behind the front player as well, if you need him to.

I think there's a very real danger that we will be playing that three man midfield, fail with it, and then swap other things around until we get a couple of results.

[Jordan Tansley]

I think there's a very real danger that we will be playing that three man midfield, fail with it, and then swap other things around until we get a couple of results.

I'm inclined to agree here. I hope we have a plan B prepared and sign a replacement left winger so that the 4-4-2 formation is not unusable.

[edson]

I think there's a very real danger that we will be playing that three man midfield, fail with it, and then swap other things around until we get a couple of results.

I know you do. I do read the forum.

[Nibor]

I know you do. I do read the forum.

I doubt you'll let yourself be drawn on the subject but I'll ask anyway. Do you think GJ's judgement about LJ's contribution on the pitch is correct?

[edson]

I doubt you'll let yourself be drawn on the subject but I'll ask anyway. Do you think GJ's judgement about LJ's contribution on the pitch is correct?

In the main, I think he justifies his place, yes. Though obviously, I only see a limited number of games, unfortunately. Personally, I'd play him higher up the pitch where his risky flicks won't catch us with seven players in front of the ball, as I feel he'd be more effective in the opposition half. But he's always available for selection, which makes planning much easier, he's always available for a pass as an outlet and he rarely gives it away (it just feels like he does it a lot because everyone makes a big fuss when he does). People say he passes it backwards or sideways like it's a bad thing. Obviously it's a bad thing if everyone does it all the time, but a pass to a teammate is a good thing, in my experience.

I don't think he's an exceptional talent, but I do think he's a very good, solid professional for this football club and deserves support not derision. Tommy Doherty is a far more talented footballer, but didn't care about his career or Bristol City. For those reasons, I'd take Lee every single time.

I think a section of the support let Lee down more often than he lets the club down, but that's just me.

[Red Ass]

I think there's a very real danger that we will be playing that three man midfield, fail with it, and then swap other things around until we get a couple of results.

Danger Nibor?

Please stop running before you can walk!

Who's to say - it may bring us to the promised land?

I trust GJ, he has been fantastic thus far, and who knows what other players are yet to arrive?

[Nibor]

In the main, I think he justifies his place, yes. Though obviously, I only see a limited number of games, unfortunately. Personally, I'd play him higher up the pitch where his risky flicks won't catch us with seven players in front of the ball, as I feel he'd be more effective in the opposition half. But he's always available for selection, which makes planning much easier, he's always available for a pass as an outlet and he rarely gives it away (it just feels like he does it a lot because everyone makes a big fuss when he does). People say he passes it backwards or sideways like it's a bad thing. Obviously it's a bad thing if everyone does it all the time, but a pass to a teammate is a good thing, in my experience.

I don't think he's an exceptional talent, but I do think he's a very good, solid professional for this football club and deserves support not derision. Tommy Doherty is a far more talented footballer, but didn't care about his career or Bristol City. For those reasons, I'd take Lee every single time.

I think a section of the support let Lee down more often than he lets the club down, but that's just me.

A thoughtful answer albeit to a different question. My question was more about GJ than LJ. I don't doubt LJ's professionalism, commitment or performance and every player on the pitch for BCFC should (and does) get support.

For me LJ was average as a Championship midfielder in his first season and less than average last season, as the effectiveness of his set pieces died off and his limitations were exposed more by the absence of Elliott and lack of an extra man in the middle.

Of our now five central midfielders, he would be last on the list for me in terms of selection. I think GJ over rates what he does on the pitch and his importance to the side and consequently picks him too much, and goes to lengths that appear odd to me to keep him in the side. This creates the situation where there is unfair pressure on LJ who doesn't pick himself and makes me concerned we will play a less than optimal formation to accomodate him alongside Hartley next season.

There is a significant proportion of City fans who feel that to some degree, whether it's a nagging thought at the back of their mind, a mild concern like mine, or a real angry sense of disbelief. How we line up on our first league game will speak volumes to me on this subject.

[everhopeful]

In the main, I think he justifies his place, yes. Though obviously, I only see a limited number of games, unfortunately. Personally, I'd play him higher up the pitch where his risky flicks won't catch us with seven players in front of the ball, as I feel he'd be more effective in the opposition half. But he's always available for selection, which makes planning much easier, he's always available for a pass as an outlet and he rarely gives it away (it just feels like he does it a lot because everyone makes a big fuss when he does). People say he passes it backwards or sideways like it's a bad thing. Obviously it's a bad thing if everyone does it all the time, but a pass to a teammate is a good thing, in my experience.

I don't think he's an exceptional talent, but I do think he's a very good, solid professional for this football club and deserves support not derision. Tommy Doherty is a far more talented footballer, but didn't care about his career or Bristol City. For those reasons, I'd take Lee every single time.

I think a section of the support let Lee down more often than he lets the club down, but that's just me.

I respect this post for it is well thought out and your honest opinion.

However, if you go back to the match reports when TD played you will find that whatever his faults there were many occasions when he was described as " running the game " or " man of the match by a country mile " or " the clear midfield supremo " or " the only player on either side capable of taking the game by the scruff of the neck ".

I can't remember too many comments like that about LJ and in the games I saw ( 81% home and away ) last season, I would not be able to make them myself.

I guess this " care about the club " thing is a personal opinion.

I could not care less if they hate the club but score or create 20 goals a season.

Ronaldo didn't care much about MU but he did them a hell of a lot of good no question.

[Red Ass]

I respect this post for it is well thought out and your honest opinion.

However, if you go back to the match reports when TD played you will find that whatever his faults there were many occasions when he was described as " running the game " or " man of the match by a country mile " or " the clear midfield supremo " or " the only player on either side capable of taking the game by the scruff of the neck ".

I can't remember too many comments like that about LJ and in the games I saw ( 81% home and away ) last season, I would not be able to make them myself.

I guess this " care about the club " thing is a personal opinion.

I could not care less if they hate the club but score or create 20 goals a season.

Ronaldo didn't care much about MU but he did them a hell of a lot of good no question.

Tommy Doc is a decent league 1 player at best, he has IMO a poor work rate with no engine, i agree with edson, if he was as committed to the cause as LJ he would have played at the very top, and he is the 1st to admit he blew it, very similar to Noble.

man of the match by a country mile? Not sure I can ever recall that statement to be honest.

[edson]

I respect this post for it is well thought out and your honest opinion.

However, if you go back to the match reports when TD played you will find that whatever his faults there were many occasions when he was described as " running the game " or " man of the match by a country mile " or " the clear midfield supremo " or " the only player on either side capable of taking the game by the scruff of the neck ".

I can't remember too many comments like that about LJ and in the games I saw ( 81% home and away ) last season, I would not be able to make them myself.

I guess this " care about the club " thing is a personal opinion.

I could not care less if they hate the club but score or create 20 goals a season.

Ronaldo didn't care much about MU but he did them a hell of a lot of good no question.

Fair comments.

My point really was that Tommy, to my mind, was a far greater footballing talent than Lee Johnson and Cole Skuse are, yet finds himself playing at a lower level than both of them. Not because he isn't good enough, but because he didn't care enough about himself or the club he played for to look after himself.

That's a great shame for him and for us.

Perhaps I worded it badly. What I'm trying to say is, I don't expect them to love Bristol City like a fan, but I do expect them to respect the shirt while they're here and do all they can to be the best they can. That's all I ask. I can forgive a player almost anything else.

[edson]

A thoughtful answer albeit to a different question. My question was more about GJ than LJ. I don't doubt LJ's professionalism, commitment or performance and every player on the pitch for BCFC should (and does) get support.

For me LJ was average as a Championship midfielder in his first season and less than average last season, as the effectiveness of his set pieces died off and his limitations were exposed more by the absence of Elliott and lack of an extra man in the middle.

Of our now five central midfielders, he would be last on the list for me in terms of selection. I think GJ over rates what he does on the pitch and his importance to the side and consequently picks him too much, and goes to lengths that appear odd to me to keep him in the side. This creates the situation where there is unfair pressure on LJ who doesn't pick himself and makes me concerned we will play a less than optimal formation to accomodate him alongside Hartley next season.

There is a significant proportion of City fans who feel that to some degree, whether it's a nagging thought at the back of their mind, a mild concern like mine, or a real angry sense of disbelief. How we line up on our first league game will speak volumes to me on this subject.

Sorry, Nibor, I'm a bit confused.

I still think I answered your question, having read that, by setting out why I feel he justitifes his selection in most instances, whilst stating how I would prefer to see him emplyed differently.

Aplogies if I've missed the point.

[Nibor]

Sorry, Nibor, I'm a bit confused.

I still think I answered your question, having read that, by setting out why I feel he justitifes his selection in most instances, whilst stating how I would prefer to see him emplyed differently.

Aplogies if I've missed the point.

Your reply read like a defence of the player.

Let me put it this way... having been selected I wouldn't think it's fair to say LJ's performance is so bad that it doesn't justify his place.

My question is, do you think that GJ's judgement of what LJ does on the field, which leads him to pick LJ almost every time he is available, is accurate?

I think GJ overrates what he brings to the XI by quite a bit. That's why I am a little concerned to hear all this talk of "threes".

[Red Ass]

Your reply read like a defence of the player.

Let me put it this way... having been selected I wouldn't think it's fair to say LJ's performance is so bad that it doesn't justify his place.

My question is, do you think that GJ's judgement of what LJ does on the field, which leads him to pick LJ almost every time he is available, is accurate?

I think GJ overrates what he brings to the XI by quite a bit. That's why I am a little concerned to hear all this talk of "threes".

You never know, a threesome might be right up your street?