bristolcitysweden Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 The Bristol Arena was A CLASSIC TURKEY all that money spent on a non event,with the timescale available as pointed out there is not the time to chase dreams. Once a world cup deadline is passed the council will no doubt lose interest and square 1 will indeed loom up again,yes its a shame that only big corporate firms carry the money and clout needed to fund such a scheme.Short of our chairman dipping in to make up the shortfall and to be fair he has put more on the line than any other chairman ,it could drag on to rival the gas in the will it won't it get built stakes. I just reckon it's absolutely shocking for Bristol Council to be dithering on this. We've now got a Chairman with a vision for top flight BCFC football in a spanking new stadium that can host world cup games and Bristol Council is procrastinating once more. Now is the time for decisive action from Bristol Council to help ensure a top Bristol sporting facility. Rather than risk all this falling through, Bristol Council should offer to buy Ashton Gate - better than spending further £millions on yet more city centre renovations and shopping centres that aren't really needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slave to the rhythm Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Short of our chairman dipping in to make up the shortfall and to be fair he has put more on the line than any other chairman ,it could drag on to rival the gas in the will it won't it get built stakes. Most City fans I know refer to it as the "I'll believe it when I see it" stadium! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Most City fans I know refer to it as the "I'll believe it when I see it" stadium! It seems to me like Steve Lansdown is having unnecessary obstacles thrown in his way. The City Council should be helping not hindering progress towards a new stadium. Any other City Council would be helping not hindering progress and that's why cities like Sunderland, Newcastle, Hull, Swansea etc have new stadia. I bet their councils didn't dither like Bristol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolcitysweden Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Most City fans I know refer to it as the "I'll believe it when I see it" stadium! In support of the new stadium supporters should walk together from Temple Meads to AG on the day of the first homegame of the season. 5 000 people or so would put some pressure on the bastards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grove park city Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Most City fans I know refer to it as the "I'll believe it when I see it" stadium! At the risk of being a pessimistic old git i do tend to agree, council like government backing can change depending on who wants what and who is willing to make it sound good for votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 At the risk of being a pessimistic old git i do tend to agree, council like government backing can change depending on who wants what and who is willing to make it sound good for votes. It doesn't help that the current Lib-Lab-Con leader of Bristol Council - Barbara Janke - is not Bristolian. She's a typical career Lib-Lab-Con politician and she was once a Councillor and then deputy Leader in Kingston upon Thames Council in the early 90's as according to wikipedia. If Bristol had a council made up from Bristolians I'm sure the new stadium would go ahead with no problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 The Council are only doing their duty in this case. Living in B&NES I know how annoying they can be, but in this instance, they are being as supportive as they can be. It may be best for BCFC to maximise revenue, but they are accountable to Government and voters, and they cannot just break all rules to accomodate Tescos/ BCFC. The land is only worth, say £20 million IF it has planning permission for a supermarket. If that planning permission cannot be granted, the land may only be worth £10 million for housing/ leisure complex. Why do you think the Tesco offer is so high? They are paying extra because it is a dodgy proposal, in the hope that Bristol CC will break the rules to get the stadium built. That's why it is a 'high-risk' strategy for City. The Council guy sounds like he is warning City that the current plans might not be feasible, and that, even with full Council support, they may not pass independent scrutiny. Surely it's better to be warned now than a year down the line. The big risk is that we spend years pursuing this, then if it is rejected, we are back to square one, and things may have changed so that a new stadium is no longer feasible. The land could be worth £20 million because of it's location and transport links to areas not covered by supermarkets, like anywhere down the A4 portway. If Tesco prove there is a demand and land is not available elswhere then it should pass. Asda at present get a lot of their custom from north and east of their store as this is where most of their vehicle traffic arrives from with foot traffic from the local vicinity. Most of sainsbury's custom is by road and could be argued that a percentage would pass the Tesco site and possibly divert but only if they chose to. Why should these stores object to competition on the grounds of unfair trading, to do so would deny a fellow trader the right to trade and it's projected customers a choice. Doesn't that sound like a monopoly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappers Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 If you read the Blog, it is not the Council being obstructive. Even if they support Tescos application, it will get referred up the chain, and may well be rejected by Central Government, on the pretty reasonable grounds that it breaks most planning rules, and would be one huge supermarket too many in the area. Tescos aren't in this for the love of City, it is a completely cynical application, hoping that the support for the new stadium will sway the planners to allow a scheme that would not normally be considered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 If you read the Blog, it is not the Council being obstructive. Even if they support Tescos application, it will get referred up the chain, and may well be rejected by Central Government, on the pretty reasonable grounds that it breaks most planning rules, and would be one huge supermarket too many in the area. Tescos aren't in this for the love of City, it is a completely cynical application, hoping that the support for the new stadium will sway the planners to allow a scheme that would not normally be considered. What planning rules would it break? Why wouldn't it be normally considered if it hadn't been previously proposed? This is pure conjecture on your part and sounds as if you have been listening to the BERATE group too much. The only objections so far have come from a few individuals and this group. Most of those objections have been about the effect on the environment and the effect on traders in North st. Personally I don't see those as an issue as the existing shops are more than capable of holding their own, as for the environment if more vehicles arrive from the A370 and the A4 portway then it's because it's needed and would happen anyway but to sainsbury's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bully Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Perhaps Bristol Council should consider buying Ashton Gate and renting the ground to Bristol Rugby Club. That would be a great deal for the local pubs who will benefit from extra match day trade - too late to save Wedlocks unfortunately. Yes but they'd have to buy it at Supermarket rates ans let it at a relative pittance - not sure many rate payers whether City or not would like that. Mind you, they don't mind spending our money on contributing towards a new foyer at the Colston Hall - was that really needed? Whatever happens, it needs to be resolved quickly - I suspect SL will need to go it alone on the new stadium and fight the battle over the AG site afterwards because the huge disadvantage we have over our competitors apart from Portsmouth is that they have grounds and the associated infrastructure already in place and just need to extend . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhatWill Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 If you read the Blog, it is not the Council being obstructive. Even if they support Tescos application, it will get referred up the chain, and may well be rejected by Central Government, on the pretty reasonable grounds that it breaks most planning rules, and would be one huge supermarket too many in the area. Tescos aren't in this for the love of City, it is a completely cynical application, hoping that the support for the new stadium will sway the planners to allow a scheme that would not normally be considered. I wouldn't say the Tesco application 'breaks most planning rules' or 'would not normally be considered'. Retail planning policy is stringent but as I have already said, the application may be acceptable if (in relatively simple terms) it can be demonstrated that there is a) a need for a Tesco in the area and b) that it would not harm the nearby shopping parades in Bemi. With the greatest respect, you are speculating that it won't meet this criteria but City will be paying some planning consultants who are retail specialists, a lot of money to put together various studies in support of the application. Until we see what has been put forward then we don't know which way the local planning authority will go let alone politicians, planning inspectors etc My gut feeling is; if there was a Tesco there does anyone think it would fail? I'm sure the club will put forward that arguement and give various similar case studies from up and down the country and the crux will be the impact it will have on North Street etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappers Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Rich - I am just trying to add a touch of reality to the debate. I have not even heard of whatever NIMBY Group you refer to, nor do I have a great knowledge of planning. What I do know is that if a proposal does not fit in with the Local Plan, it might struggle. That a supermarket on Ashton Gate is a stupid idea, with Sainsburys, Tescos, Lidls and Bedmisnster shops in close proximity. That anything involving Tescos is to be treated with caution. Finally, if it does get called in, it will cause a huge delay. The OP is just one persons opinion, not official policy, it sounds a major note of caution, and sounds to me like 'Find a different partner if you want things to be hassle free'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Yes but they'd have to buy it at Supermarket rates ans let it at a relative pittance - not sure many rate payers whether City or not would like that. Mind you, they don't mind spending our money on contributing towards a new foyer at the Colston Hall - was that really needed? Whatever happens, it needs to be resolved quickly - I suspect SL will need to go it alone on the new stadium and fight the battle over the AG site afterwards because the huge disadvantage we have over our competitors apart from Portsmouth is that they have grounds and the associated infrastructure already in place and just need to extend . The Bristol Council allowed the £500 million Cabot Circus shop development to go ahead just as we were seeing a downturn in the economy. The Council stumping up a mere £20 million or so for Ashton Gate is peanuts in comparison. The Council could even relocate their College Green offices to Ashton Gate as I believe it has already been proposed to shut the College Green offices. Buying Ashton gate for £20 million has to be a good investment whether it be by Tescos or the Council. The Council also spent £millions on the dopey fountains, concrete and curious poles on the centre - it looks crap and looked far better when it was lawns and bushes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Rich - I am just trying to add a touch of reality to the debate. I have not even heard of whatever NIMBY Group you refer to, nor do I have a great knowledge of planning. What I do know is that if a proposal does not fit in with the Local Plan, it might struggle. That a supermarket on Ashton Gate is a stupid idea, with Sainsburys, Tescos, Lidls and Bedmisnster shops in close proximity. That anything involving Tescos is to be treated with caution. Finally, if it does get called in, it will cause a huge delay. The OP is just one persons opinion, not official policy, it sounds a major note of caution, and sounds to me like 'Find a different partner if you want things to be hassle free'. I think we should trust the more informed people to do their jobs. A local plan is just that a plan, until someone alters that plan by adding a stadium, more housing and a supermarket then it will remain only a plan. Do you seriously think Tesco consider this plan to open a store in that location stupid? As Iv'e hinted at, I think Tesco's customer area spreads much further than Ashton and Bedminster. S L has stated that ulterior funding will have to be found for the stadium if this is turned down, he didn't say the stadium would not be built, so let's hope he has cotingency plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderHider Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Never thought I would say the words "Go Tesco!" I'm rooting for their slick legal team now, no reason why this won't be resolved in due course. Everyone knew there would be complications, there is always is with a project of this size. I'm glad there is opposition to this, it gives us a chance to show unquestionably that Tesco moving in on the AG site is an excellent idea with wide range of benefits. I don't mean to sound patronizing, but its a known fact the people will always oppose what they don't understand, its a natural human reaction. However, with the right information the majority of Bristol will be rightfully behind this. Gotta get the PR machine moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 Never thought I would say the words "Go Tesco!" I'm rooting for their slick legal team now, no reason why this won't be resolved in due course. Everyone knew there would be complications, there is always is with a project of this size. I'm glad there is opposition to this, it gives us a chance to show unquestionably that Tesco moving in on the AG site is an excellent idea with wide range of benefits. I don't mean to sound patronizing, but its a known fact the people will always oppose what they don't understand, its a natural human reaction. However, with the right information the majority of Bristol will be rightfully behind this. Gotta get the PR machine moving. Just a few years ago there was great controversy when a large Tesco supermarket was built on the Bristol Grammar School playing fields on Golden Hill Kellaway Avenue Horfield. Our (Cotham Grammar's) playing field was just down the road. I never thought Tesco would get planning permission because Golden Hill is an area of outstanding natural beauty - but they did. Does anyone remember the old Bristol Grammar School fields and sports pavilion at Kellaway Avenue and how good it was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappers Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 I certainly will not disagree about loony schemes, like the fountains. Or even the old engine depot becoming a concert venue, despite the obvious bad location and lack of parking. In Bath we have a loony BRT scheme that involves building a dedicated bus road where congestion is minimal, then running huge bendy busses (With only 37 seats) around narrow streets to the other side of Bath along a hugely congested road... To a P&R on a flood plain! Not forgetting a million pounds on a short bus lane on a road with just 4 busses an hour! I just see what this guy is saying. My immediate reaction on hearing about Tescos was to wonder if that will ever get planning permission. A supermarket was probably the one thing that would have problems getting passed. Still, if Tescos sling enough cash at the Tories, we might still be fine if it does get called in (Which seems likely)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 The Bristol Council allowed the £500 million Cabot Circus shop development to go ahead just as we were seeing a downturn in the economy. The Council stumping up a mere £20 million or so for Ashton Gate is peanuts in comparison. The Council could even relocate their College Green offices to Ashton Gate as I believe it has already been proposed to shut the College Green offices. Buying Ashton gate for £20 million has to be a good investment whether it be by Tescos or the Council. The Council also spent £millions on the dopey fountains, concrete and curious poles on the centre - it looks crap and looked far better when it was lawns and bushes. what the college green lawn has gone? are u serious?... what nonsense. i must go into bristol sometime soon; its been a while. thats not a bad shout about the council office relocating to ashton gate.. what will happen to college green then?? or should i say college concrete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted July 7, 2009 Report Share Posted July 7, 2009 what the college green lawn has gone? are u serious?... what nonsense. i must go into bristol sometime soon; its been a while. thats not a bad shout about the council office relocating to ashton gate.. what will happen to college green then?? or should i say college concrete. No, not the College Green lawns, the Bristol Centre lawns and bushes have been concreted over with curious and costly fountains and poles as decoration - it really does look crap..... This time one hundred years ago it was known as 'the tram centre' - when BCFC was a top flight club the first time around !!!!!!! ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiling Dave Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Tesco moving in on the AG site is an excellent idea with wide range of benefits. Which are...? (Apart from the obvious one, that there's another shop, with jobs created in building it and staffing it.) Not being argumentative, I'm just genuinely interested to know why you think that that yet another supermarket is such an exciting idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiling Dave Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Do you seriously think Tesco consider this plan to open a store in that location stupid? Of course they don't. They know that they could put a shop next door to one of their OWN, and they would both do good business. But the fact that Tesco reckon it's commercially viable doesn't mean it's not a stupid idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Of course they don't. They know that they could put a shop next door to one of their OWN, and they would both do good business. But the fact that Tesco reckon it's commercially viable doesn't mean it's not a stupid idea. Can you please explain what makes this plan by Tesco stupid? Other than just saying it's stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiling Dave Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Can you please explain what makes this plan by Tesco stupid? Other than just saying it's stupid. I have done elsewhere, but, in summary: the area is already adequately served by supermarkets, and it's an unimaginative use of a good opportunity to create something of value to the community. But one person's "stupid" is another person's "wow, what a great idea!". It's only my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 I have done elsewhere, but, in summary: the area is already adequately served by supermarkets, and it's an unimaginative use of a good opportunity to create something of value to the community. But one person's "stupid" is another person's "wow, what a great idea!". It's only my opinion. Hi. you say the area is adequately served at present, does that mean then that it is not well served at present? and as I've said elsewhere customers would not just be coming from the area but from outlying districts as well. In an ideal world Tesco will come up with a plan which is not just about profits but gives something to the local community as well, what that is I don't know, perhaps a health centre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiling Dave Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 Hi. you say the area is adequately served at present, does that mean then that it is not well served at present? I mean that the area has plenty of supermarkets, and that it doesn't need another. In an ideal world Tesco will come up with a plan which is not just about profits but gives something to the local community as well, what that is I don't know, perhaps a health centre. Tesco, Sainsbury, Asda, etc. will never do anything that doesn't make money in the long run. Their first concern is their shareholder. They will make tokenistic gestures to the community (School vouchers, etc.), to the environment ("Bags for life", etc.), but, as a business, profit is everything. So the responsibility falls on OUR FOOTBALL CLUB, to do something to benefit the community that has supported and housed it for 100 years, not just selling out to the highest bidder. But then maybe profit is everything to BCFC as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bully Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 The Bristol Council allowed the £500 million Cabot Circus shop development to go ahead just as we were seeing a downturn in the economy. The Council stumping up a mere £20 million or so for Ashton Gate is peanuts in comparison. The Council could even relocate their College Green offices to Ashton Gate as I believe it has already been proposed to shut the College Green offices. Buying Ashton gate for £20 million has to be a good investment whether it be by Tescos or the Council. The Council also spent £millions on the dopey fountains, concrete and curious poles on the centre - it looks crap and looked far better when it was lawns and bushes. The revenue in rates alone from Cabot Circus is huge - no comparison between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted July 8, 2009 Report Share Posted July 8, 2009 I mean that the area has plenty of supermarkets, and that it doesn't need another. Tesco, Sainsbury, Asda, etc. will never do anything that doesn't make money in the long run. Their first concern is their shareholder. They will make tokenistic gestures to the community (School vouchers, etc.), to the environment ("Bags for life", etc.), but, as a business, profit is everything. So the responsibility falls on OUR FOOTBALL CLUB, to do something to benefit the community that has supported and housed it for 100 years, not just selling out to the highest bidder. But then maybe profit is everything to BCFC as well. Hi Dave , this is only your opinion that the area doesn't need another supermarket and it would differ somewhat with that of Tesco and many people who would welcome more choice. As for the responsibility of OUR FOOTBALL CLUB then it's first is to make sure of it's future, the community will develop around it as it has in the last 100 years. I don't think profit has much to do with it more like how to spend less of the clubs/ shareholders money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smiling Dave Posted July 10, 2009 Report Share Posted July 10, 2009 Hi Dave , this is only your opinion that the area doesn't need another supermarket and it would differ somewhat with that of Tesco and many people who would welcome more choice. As for the responsibility of OUR FOOTBALL CLUB then it's first is to make sure of it's future, the community will develop around it as it has in the last 100 years. I don't think profit has much to do with it more like how to spend less of the clubs/ shareholders money. Yes, it is my opinion. And of course Tesco will know that, whether the area NEEDS another supermarket or not, they can still make money. To some extent, the retail giants GENERATE demand, rather than merely supply it. They've proved that many times over. As far as the Club's responsibility is concerned, if a developer came along and offered 4 times as much as Tesco, planning to use the land for something that they thought was completely unacceptable (I can't think of a suitable example, but you get the idea), the Club wouldn't sell, even though the sale would secure its future. But Sexstone and the Club are of the opinion that the Tesco plan IS acceptable, and all I'm saying is that I disagree - one person's "acceptable compromise" is another person's "irresponsible selling out". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksred Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 Same old crap from Lib Dumb, or Labour councils. Promise the earth to get "eelcted" and then forget about the voters for all their precious sacred cows: cycle lanes, green this that and the other. They have no history of encouraging top class sport, top class facilities or housing. and bristols roads make my counties road network look outstanding, and our council has had its share of the Goverment cut in recent years to subsidise inefficient and corrupt Labour/Lib Dumb councils usually oop narth, Wales and Jockland (coincidentally Labour heartlands ) If Bristols council fail to give permission for the new ground, it will prove yet again how out of touch with the voters they really are. Remember the gas-scum have struggled to get a ground, the education in Bristol for the masses is shocking. The roads are awful, tensions with some of the immigrant communities, poor/no existant policing, over priced, ineffecient services, high community charges. We have all four of the supermarkets in chavscum central Buckinghamshire, indeed Tesco has two, and I beleive Sainsburys are opening another. It shouldn't affect trading in the area, as from what I have seen its a vibrant local economy down there. You have a diverse community, which drives the shops staying as is. The only way it will, is if your area turns into a commuter area like it is up here, where everyone shops on-line which has wiped all the smaller shops out leaving us with the usual chavscum's favorite shops: Next, Pri-mark, many bookies (Chains of course) super pubs (ditto), which become a battlefield every weekend, the multiplex (ditto)cinema, and sundry takeaways. however about 60% of our communities are commuters, and only live in the area, having no local loyalty/roots or interest. Down there is still a community with local pride/roots/interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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