Bristol Lib Dems On The Tesco Planning App

[Antman]

[PhatWill]

We have advised BCFC that a retail outlet of this size would be contrary to the Local Plan in terms of future development and thus it would be a high risk venture as far as they are concerned. Sainsburys and Asda are highly likely to call any judgement in and that could delay the project for several years.

All very true unfortunately.

And the big supermarket chains love their judicial reviews...

The problem for SL I guess is that it's not really a secret that he CAN afford to make up that shortfall if we didn't get maximum resale value from Ashton Gate. Whether he would be willing to that, well thus far he has said definitely not, but it'll be a big call if the worst happens and the Tesco application is refused and delayed for sometime.

[Mr Mosquito]

[Southport Red]

Reading that excerpt it's clear that the Liberal faction of the ruling Lib-Lab-Con don't really support the sale of Ashton Gate to Tesco to finance a new stadium. However, the Liberals would be quite prepared to bathe in the glory that a new stadium would bring to Bristol in terms of attracting world cup games etc. The Liberals would also - no doubt - take all the credit for attracting the world cup to Bristol conveniently forgetting that it's the leadership of this football club that is making world cup football in Bristol a possibility.

Think that's a little harsh Goblin. The WC Bid and Planning Law are two very different matters. They do connect/overlap here but the fact remains that any Council cannot just allow the creation of yet another 'Tesco' Town because it suits BCFC. You know darn well that Sano's & Asda will contest any application and that such an appeal (which would, let's get real here, be inevitable, will take time and delay matters.

It is down to BCFC/Tesco to put up an argument that a new Superstore on that site fills a real need for the community and is an imperative for that community, and, with that Sano's just yards up the road, that will be a difficult call.

Far better IMHO is for Steve to fund the difference and lease Ashton Gate to the Rugby Club, gives them what would be the best Stadium for Rugby, certainly in National League 1) and of course, (and this is FAR more important) denies the Pikeys valuable rent income.

[Mr Mosquito]

Think that's a little harsh Goblin. The WC Bid and Planning Law are two very different matters. They do connect/overlap here but the fact remains that any Council cannot just allow the creation of yet another 'Tesco' Town because it suits BCFC. You know darn well that Sano's & Asda will contest any application and that such an appeal (which would, let's get real here, be inevitable, will take time and delay matters.

It is down to BCFC/Tesco to put up an argument that a new Superstore on that site fills a real need for the community and is an imperative for that community, and, with that Sano's just yards up the road, that will be a difficult call.

Far better IMHO is for Steve to fund the difference and lease Ashton Gate to the Rugby Club, gives them what would be the best Stadium for Rugby, certainly in National League 1) and of course, (and this is FAR more important) denies the Pikeys valuable rent income.

To me it's down to the Lib-Lab-Con political elitists to sort this out quickly as more delay could see Bristol's world cup bid flushed down the pan.

[Robbored]

Far better IMHO is for Steve to fund the difference and lease Ashton Gate to the Rugby Club, gives them what would be the best Stadium for Rugby, certainly in National League 1) and of course, (and this is FAR more important) denies the Pikeys valuable rent income.

I've no doubt at all that the idea of leasing AG to Bristol Rugby was looked at and quickly dismissed. It simply wouldn't generate enough income. To rent AG for a rugby season would bring about £120k - thats peanuts. A lease would not be much more.

As we all know the best deal by far for City is to sell AG to Tesco. No other option comes close in terms revenue. The political wheeling and dealing (No doubt much of it behind closed doors) would/will be interesting to witness.

[Southport Red]

I've no doubt at all that the idea of leasing AG to Bristol Rugby was looked at and quickly dismissed. It simply wouldn't generate enough income. To rent AG for a rugby season would bring about £120k - thats peanuts. A lease would not be much more.

As we all know the best deal by far for City is to sell AG to Tesco. No other option comes close in terms revenue. The political wheeling and dealing (No doubt much of it behind closed doors) would/will be interesting to witness.

True Robbored...BUT

You cannot put a value on the possibility of denying the Rovers income

[Snufflelufagus]

For me Asda and Sainsburys would look very bad if they blocked the Teso plan and ultimetly our new stadium, world cup bid etc. It wouldnt be good PR from their point of view.

[Gazred]

Not sure how all of this works, but if we need a yes from both Asda and Sainsburys for the staduim to be built then I'm already having doubts, i cant imagine there shareholders give a damn about Bristol having World Cup matches and would certainly not welcome one of there main competitors building a new supermarket down the road.

[Mr Mosquito]

The political wheeling and dealing (No doubt much of it behind closed doors) would/will be interesting to witness.

Worryingly, Bristol Council - under whatever Lib-Lab-Con faction - has a history of procrastination. The main example I cite is the bombing in 1941 of Bristol's electric tram system by Hitler's German Luftwaffe airforce. 68 years on and the Bristol Council still haven't got the trams back up and running - although they've spent years talking about it. Another example is Totterdown where housing was knocked down in the 1970s and a community destroyed and still hasn't been rebuilt properly. Leave anything to Bristol Council and we're looking at decades not months before a situation is resolved.

[tompo]

Worryingly, Bristol Council - under whatever Lib-Lab-Con faction - has a history of procrastination. The main example I cite is the bombing in 1941 of Bristol's electric tram system by Hitler's German Luftwaffe airforce. 68 years on and the Bristol Council still haven't got the trams back up and running - although they've spent years talking about it. Another example is Totterdown where housing was knocked down in the 1970s and a community destroyed and still hasn't been rebuilt properly. Leave anything to Bristol Council and we're looking at decades not months before a situation is resolved.

They now have government targets to comply with for deciding planning applications.

Failure to do so gives the applicant the right to appeal on the grounds of non determination. This would then take the decision out of the council's hands as it would be decided by a planning Inspector.

[Smiling Dave]

Leave anything to Bristol Council and we're looking at decades not months before a situation is resolved.

There would be far more chance of it getting sorted quickly if the club had a better plan. As its stands, another supermarket in an area already well off for supermarkets is a ridiculous idea, and a complete waste of the land. As a local resident, I am strongly opposed to the plan, and will object, even if that means a delay for the new stadium. I am strongly in favour of the new stadium, but not at any price. It is the Club that needs to sort that out first.

[PhatWill]

There would be far more chance of it getting sorted quickly if the club had a better plan. As its stands, another supermarket in an area already well off for supermarkets is a ridiculous idea, and a complete waste of the land. As a local resident, I am strongly opposed to the plan, and will object, even if that means a delay for the new stadium. I am strongly in favour of the new stadium, but not at any price. It is the Club that needs to sort that out first.

Could I ask a) what this 'better plan' may be and b) on what grounds you'd object to the Tesco application?

[Slave to the rhythm]

For me Asda and Sainsburys would look very bad if they blocked the Teso plan and ultimetly our new stadium, world cup bid etc. It wouldnt be good PR from their point of view.

Do you really think they give a stuff about the World Cup bid?

[Smiling Dave]

Could I ask a) what this 'better plan' may be and b) on what grounds you'd object to the Tesco application?

a) I'm not a town planner, but as a local resident I would like to see the site used for something that is of value to the community around it. This could include leisure facilities, some housing, small retail units, a primary school, etc., all of which the area needs.

b) As I already said, my objection is basically that another large Tesco is simply not needed, and that the site should be used more imaginatively. Obviously Tesco are confident that the presence of the shop will generate demand, but with Sainsbury's literally a couple of hundred yards away, and a recently enlarged Asda within a few minutes (neither of which are overly busy when I visit them), it's simply not needed.

[Percy Parrot]

As a local resident my view is different to that of Smiling Dave. I'd support a Tesco being put there and everyone else in the house (non-City fans) actually agree with me.

- It won't destroy trade on North Street. All of this house does most of its shopping at Aldi, Ashton Fruit + Veg, the bakers etc. because it's closer and easier.

- If we wanted to get cheaper we would already do so and head to Sainsbury's or Asda. Yes we occasionally head to Sainsbury's or Asda for specific things and would continue to do so - just that we now have a choice of supermarkets. Tesco would be competition to Sainsbury's and Asda, not local traders

- The area can support football crowds of up to 20,000 - we think it'd be fine with a Tesco

- We can't see the traffic situation being any better if hundreds of flats are put there. It just means there'll be a lot of extra traffic 8 - 9 every morning and 5-6 every evening with new residents whizzing around.

- One of my flat-mates is a trainee supermarket manager and currently works in Wiltshire. He'd love to apply for a job at a new Tesco here in the future.

- Another flat-mate's girlfriend is on the look out for some work too and also wishes there was another supermarket or something similar here.

That's purely anecdotal I know but with my residents hat on I'm mildly in favour of the Tesco project. As a City fan my view is different - I am hugely in favour because I believe the Tesco deal could be a massive deciding factor in whether or not we get the new stadium or not and I think Ashton Vale simply has to take place for us to push for the Prem. As a Bristolian I hope it happens because I'd love world cup football here.

The statement in the blog posted sounds fairly promising on both counts.

[Chappers]

How many supermarkets do you all need? Tescos might be the highest bidder, but that is pure cynicism on their part - They are relying on the need for a new stadium to allow them to breach all standard planning rules, hence their willingness to pay a premium. Take the stadium out of the equation, and this is a very contentious planning application, and in normal circumstances, would be thrown out instantly.

I get the feeling that we will need a Plan B if we are to move into our new stadium sooner rather than later/ never.

Percy - The last 3 paragraphs of the blog sound more like - 'Tescos is not a good option - find another buyer'.

[Smiling Dave]

- One of my flat-mates is a trainee supermarket manager and currently works in Wiltshire. He'd love to apply for a job at a new Tesco here in the future.

- Another flat-mate's girlfriend is on the look out for some work too and also wishes there was another supermarket or something similar here.

Well although the development might suit the career aspirations of your flatmates, Percy, don't you think that supermarkets are just incredibly DULL? As Chappers says, how many do we need, for goodness' sake?? Let's just turn the whole of South Bristol into one giant Tesburyda, and be done with it. Or shall we do something better???

[Nibor]

Tesco's might not be needed now but with 10,000 homes to be built in the area over the next few years that will change I would think.

[Guest churchill gaffer]

Reading that excerpt it's clear that the Liberal faction of the ruling Lib-Lab-Con don't really support the sale of Ashton Gate to Tesco to finance a new stadium. However, the Liberals would be quite prepared to bathe in the glory that a new stadium would bring to Bristol in terms of attracting world cup games etc. The Liberals would also - no doubt - take all the credit for attracting the world cup to Bristol conveniently forgetting that it's the leadership of this football club that is making world cup football in Bristol a possibility.

Surely a Tesco superstore, would be great for the area!

It would bring competition amongst Sainsburys and Asda!

That would be great for the whole of Bristol.

When Asda moved into W-S-M the petrol prices dropped a lot! This was due to competition.

If the Concil is to give the go ahead for 10,000 houses to be built between Bristol and Nailsea (By Long Ashton, Green belt) then more supermarkets will have to be built in this area anyway, to support the area?

It sounds to me, the council only want to sell our land for houseing! I hope SL has another way of funding the new stadium! Or it will be another Gash exercise, with no money!!!!!

[Geoff65]

Tesco's might not be needed now but with 10,000 homes to be built in the area over the next few years that will change I would think.

I think this is a poor argument - as you said 10,000 new homes to be built - why wouldn't a new tesco/supermarket be built closer to the 10,000 new homes? It's not a matter of having to have the new supermarket at AG to service those 10,000 new homes in deed any where in the vicinity of the new homes would be preferable to AG as a location for a new supermarket.

[PhatWill]

a) I'm not a town planner, but as a local resident I would like to see the site used for something that is of value to the community around it. This could include leisure facilities, some housing, small retail units, a primary school, etc., all of which the area needs.

b) As I already said, my objection is basically that another large Tesco is simply not needed, and that the site should be used more imaginatively. Obviously Tesco are confident that the presence of the shop will generate demand, but with Sainsbury's literally a couple of hundred yards away, and a recently enlarged Asda within a few minutes (neither of which are overly busy when I visit them), it's simply not needed.

a) great idea in principle but something like that would have to be planned by BCC and I doubt they have the nouse, ambition or cash (most importantly) to make any of the projects you mention become reality. In money terms it is estimated that we could get £4.5 m for a housing development or £20 m for Tesco. A very easy decision for SL I'd imagine.

b) in the planning application it will have to be demonstrated that there is a need for a Tesco in the area and that no harm will be caused to retail units in North Street /Bemi. I know that something has been submitted along those lines by NLP (the planning consultant) and it will be an interesting read when it is finally published online, hopefully by the end of this week.

As Nibor says, the additional 10,000 homes planned nearby will probably make up part of their arguement. Although the indefinite delay of the Regional Spatial Strategy which was to get rid of the Green Belt there may cause a slight issue. That said, as I understand it this delay has been caused by issues in the south east of England and so shouldn't effect Bristol.

[Percy Parrot]

Well although the development might suit the career aspirations of your flatmates, Percy, don't you think that supermarkets are just incredibly DULL? As Chappers says, how many do we need, for goodness' sake?? Let's just turn the whole of South Bristol into one giant Tesburyda, and be done with it. Or shall we do something better???

Yes they are dull but so are flats. Although I realise there are targets to be met on housing.

[grove park city]

Worryingly, Bristol Council - under whatever Lib-Lab-Con faction - has a history of procrastination. The main example I cite is the bombing in 1941 of Bristol's electric tram system by Hitler's German Luftwaffe airforce. 68 years on and the Bristol Council still haven't got the trams back up and running - although they've spent years talking about it. Another example is Totterdown where housing was knocked down in the 1970s and a community destroyed and still hasn't been rebuilt properly. Leave anything to Bristol Council and we're looking at decades not months before a situation is resolved.

Have to agree any thing involving council permission seems doomed,Weston has suffered over the years with no drive at all from the local council. Its only the fact that the pier is in private hands that it is now being rebuilt,you only have to go to the seafront to see what a rundown drink/drug orientated place its become. Mainly due to it becoming a dumping ground for re-hab centres thanks to the con/libdem council,so anything that needs planning permission from this neck of the woods ie new ground is a concern.

[Bob4Jane]

Liberal faction of the ruling Lib-Lab-Con

What the libs say, goes. They now rule the roost.

http://news.BBC.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/8080787.stm

[Mr Mosquito]

Have to agree any thing involving council permission seems doomed,Weston has suffered over the years with no drive at all from the local council. Its only the fact that the pier is in private hands that it is now being rebuilt,you only have to go to the seafront to see what a rundown drink/drug orientated place its become. Mainly due to it becoming a dumping ground for re-hab centres thanks to the con/libdem council,so anything that needs planning permission from this neck of the woods ie new ground is a concern.

Whether Ashton Gate becomes Tescos, homes, offices, open parkland, a derelict area etc - there are people that will moan. At least whatever happens will not be as bad as what happened to Totterdown in the early 1970s. My dear departed Mother used to talk about Totterdown quite a lot and the community spirit there. The area where we used to live was put under compulsory purchase and everything knocked down thus destroying the community in the manner that the Hitlerite Germans destroyed many Bristol communities with their bombing raids.

[Chappers]

The Council are only doing their duty in this case. Living in B&NES I know how annoying they can be, but in this instance, they are being as supportive as they can be. It may be best for BCFC to maximise revenue, but they are accountable to Government and voters, and they cannot just break all rules to accomodate Tescos/ BCFC. The land is only worth, say £20 million IF it has planning permission for a supermarket. If that planning permission cannot be granted, the land may only be worth £10 million for housing/ leisure complex. Why do you think the Tesco offer is so high? They are paying extra because it is a dodgy proposal, in the hope that Bristol CC will break the rules to get the stadium built. That's why it is a 'high-risk' strategy for City.

The Council guy sounds like he is warning City that the current plans might not be feasible, and that, even with full Council support, they may not pass independent scrutiny. Surely it's better to be warned now than a year down the line. The big risk is that we spend years pursuing this, then if it is rejected, we are back to square one, and things may have changed so that a new stadium is no longer feasible.

[Mr Mosquito]

The Council are only doing their duty in this case. Living in B&NES I know how annoying they can be, but in this instance, they are being as supportive as they can be. It may be best for BCFC to maximise revenue, but they are accountable to Government and voters, and they cannot just break all rules to accomodate Tescos/ BCFC. The land is only worth, say £20 million IF it has planning permission for a supermarket. If that planning permission cannot be granted, the land may only be worth £10 million for housing/ leisure complex. Why do you think the Tesco offer is so high? They are paying extra because it is a dodgy proposal, in the hope that Bristol CC will break the rules to get the stadium built. That's why it is a 'high-risk' strategy for City.

The Council guy sounds like he is warning City that the current plans might not be feasible, and that, even with full Council support, they may not pass independent scrutiny. Surely it's better to be warned now than a year down the line. The big risk is that we spend years pursuing this, then if it is rejected, we are back to square one, and things may have changed so that a new stadium is no longer feasible.

Perhaps Bristol Council should consider buying Ashton Gate and renting the ground to Bristol Rugby Club. That would be a great deal for the local pubs who will benefit from extra match day trade - too late to save Wedlocks unfortunately.

[grove park city]

The Council are only doing their duty in this case. Living in B&NES I know how annoying they can be, but in this instance, they are being as supportive as they can be. It may be best for BCFC to maximise revenue, but they are accountable to Government and voters, and they cannot just break all rules to accomodate Tescos/ BCFC. The land is only worth, say £20 million IF it has planning permission for a supermarket. If that planning permission cannot be granted, the land may only be worth £10 million for housing/ leisure complex. Why do you think the Tesco offer is so high? They are paying extra because it is a dodgy proposal, in the hope that Bristol CC will break the rules to get the stadium built. That's why it is a 'high-risk' strategy for City.

The Council guy sounds like he is warning City that the current plans might not be feasible, and that, even with full Council support, they may not pass independent scrutiny. Surely it's better to be warned now than a year down the line. The big risk is that we spend years pursuing this, then if it is rejected, we are back to square one, and things may have changed so that a new stadium is no longer feasible.

That is the point how many years have we been hearing grand plans for a new ground,i still have a old gatepost magazine with a certain Scott Davidson outlaying our answer to Sunderland's stadium of Light. The Bristol Arena was A CLASSIC TURKEY all that money spent on a non event,with the timescale available as pointed out there is not the time to chase dreams. Once a world cup deadline is passed the council will no doubt lose interest and square 1 will indeed loom up again,yes its a shame that only big corporate firms carry the money and clout needed to fund such a scheme.Short of our chairman dipping in to make up the shortfall and to be fair he has put more on the line than any other chairman ,it could drag on to rival the gas in the will it won't it get built stakes.

[22A]

And the big supermarket chains love their judicial reviews...

Especially when chaired by Lord Sainsbury?