Guest ashtonyate Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Can you answer my question, please. What was that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havanatopia Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Thought he had a shocker against Cardiff. I do rate him though. he was definately poor but then frankly they nearly all were save for Gerken. I can see why people are saying McCombe needs a competition for his place as well. Apart from the own goal he was arguably not quick or smart enough for some other moments in the game. Or was it that cardiff were simply way too good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 What was that? Erm... It's in the last post of mine you quoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliftonCliff Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 A word in support of those (Edson, Robbored) who have disputed the "Hartley's legs have gone" nonsense. You could have shot him an armful of amphetamines before yesterday's game and had him running round like a manic nineteen year-old and it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference. For a start, we had at least two others out there who were off the pace, to put it mildly: Johnson has had a disrupted pre-season due to illness and probably wasn't ready to play a full game (and was subbed); Wilson's been long-term injured and hasn't played a senior game since God knows when and it looked like it. As to the rest, aside from Gerken, it's hard to think of anyone who had an even half-decent game, and to top it off the formation and tactics seemed to be all over the place and for the first hour most of them looked like they weren't sure what the hell they were supposed to be doing. Add to all that the fact that they were playing a very good side on a roll and full of confidence, and you've got a pretty bad day at the office all round. It happens. Expecting Hartley to reproduce the form he showed against QPR in the middle of that lot is not realistic or fair. Moreover, trying to draw conclusions about anyone's fitness (or indeed motivation) this early in the season is folly. And comparisons with Tommy Doherty are valid only in so far as they vaguely resemble each other in appearance and playing style: the difference is that one has approached his career in a professional manner and looked after himself. I can think of plenty of things to be concerned about after this result, and Hartley's stamina would come well down the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon79 Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 He always looks tired IMO! But he is a great addition to our club.Plays a very similar role to LJ IMO ( i can hear the keyboards tapping in the distance already!),tries to get the ball down and occasionally spreads it out wide,which sometimes comes off,sometimes doesnt.Noticed that he seems to try and talk people through situations during the game and tries to gee people up on occasions,which is good to see.Dont think we have seen the best of his free kicks yet,as im sure he has scored his fair share north of the border.We are only a few games into the season,but i think he will do well for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purescience Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Hartley was bought to lead and show an example to the rest of the team if he has lost his motivation after 4 games then we have a problem. I say it was playing 3 games in 8 days if you say no then he will be a bad buy we have had to many at this club who in the past performed when they think they will,but I still say its was fatigue. So you are saying he is either too old or a bad buy? Maybe he just had a bad game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ashtonyate Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 So you are saying he is either too old or a bad buy? Maybe he just had a bad game? No I am saying he looked tired but edson said he had a bad game,I am thinking if he lost form so quickly from Tuesday Night then we have a problem with inconsistencies from him.I just think 3 games in 8 days is to much for him? As for Edsons question no not all the team looked knackered but midfield did not perform and left the defence exposed and the attack with no quality passes. If Hartley is not doing it then Lee Johnson and then Williams were not effective the whole midfield was overrun and that is one of the reasons we lost the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Because we were overrun in midfield. Or because he is unfit. Do you think Hartley is "Bristol City" fit? Because I don't and he's now been with the club for a while... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 No I am saying he looked tired but edson said he had a bad game,I am thinking if he lost form so quickly from Tuesday Night then we have a problem with inconsistencies from him.I just think 3 games in 8 days is to much for him? As for Edsons question no not all the team looked knackered but midfield did not perform and left the defence exposed and the attack with no quality passes. If Hartley is not doing it then Lee Johnson and then Williams were not effective the whole midfield was overrun and that is one of the reasons we lost the game. You thought, Hartley aside, that the midfield looked fresh and full of running? I didn't. I think they got demoralised and frustrated after quarter of an hour, and stopped doing the simple things well. Chasing the ball is a lot more tiring than being in possession, mentally as well as physically. It drains you. Had we gone one up and taken the wind out of Cardiff's sails, I think we'd have seen a much brighter performance all round. I don't really see why Hartley is being picked out as looking tired, when it was a lethargic performance all round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ashtonyate Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Or because he is unfit. Do you think Hartley is "Bristol City" fit? Because I don't and he's now been with the club for a while... I don't think its his fitness most pro footballer keep themselves at a good fitness level,I hope they don't start giving him a hard fitness programme at his age or he will have trouble in games with fatigue he 33 not 23. I just think he will need to be rested from time to time and that's the best way to get the best out of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 I don't think its his fitness most pro footballer keep themselves at a good fitness level,I hope they don't start giving him a hard fitness programme at his age or he will have trouble in games with fatigue he 33 not 23. I just think he will need to be rested from time to time and that's the best way to get the best out of him. He's neither. He's 32. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ashtonyate Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 You thought, Hartley aside, that the midfield looked fresh and full of running? I didn't. I think they got demoralised and frustrated after quarter of an hour, and stopped doing the simple things well. Chasing the ball is a lot more tiring than being in possession, mentally as well as physically. It drains you. Had we gone one up and taken the wind out of Cardiff's sails, I think we'd have seen a much brighter performance all round. I don't really see why Hartley is being picked out as looking tired, when it was a lethargic performance all round. I think Elloitt is struggling at the moment I think Lee Johnson I am sorry to say is just not good enough Gavin Williams is powder puff and if for what ever reason Hartley if is not playing well we will struggle,we are still short of play makers in midfield what ever any one says. Having watch the game again you cannot compare Hartley's game on Tuesday to the game yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
City1970 Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Agreed. Needs resting through the season, 3 games in a week is too much for him. But who will replace him? Lee Johnson is a good ever present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ashtonyate Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 He's neither. He's 32. 32 & 10 months if you want to be pedantic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 32 & 10 months if you want to be pedantic. Yes. Or '32' as most people call it once they get beyond the age of 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ashtonyate Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 Yes. Or '32' as most people call it once they get beyond the age of 9. I am only 8 & 3/4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tales From The Front Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 I'm with Edson on this one. The midfield was overun end of, in a similar way to Plymouth first half at home and Brum at home last season. The selection on this occassion did City no favours, we were light in midfield Hartly and Elliott were not supported in the same way that Skuse and Orr had in the first few games and it showed Lee Johnson and Brian Wilson did not provide the same energy and presence as the absentees. I would agree that Hartley had an indifferent game, but it wasn't down to lack of fitness, it was down to lack of control that City had on the game. We must not go back to the situation where several players make up for the luxury of those that do not compete, I've comented several times with regards Elliotts injury problems in this regard. We can all see that City's performance is based on the team ethic and is not able to carry passengers in games of the high intensity of yesterday. Fitness or age is not the issue here but an ability to control the game is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MATT BCFC Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 He wasnt great yesterday thats for sure but id still say he was a lot better than LJ and Marv looked the only one of the three who looked like he had any kind of quality. Played a brilliant pass to Mcallister in the second half which I dont think anyone else in our team could have played. I think being a fairly big name people are expecting a bit too much from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 You thought, Hartley aside, that the midfield looked fresh and full of running? I didn't. I think they got demoralised and frustrated after quarter of an hour, and stopped doing the simple things well. Chasing the ball is a lot more tiring than being in possession, mentally as well as physically. It drains you. Had we gone one up and taken the wind out of Cardiff's sails, I think we'd have seen a much brighter performance all round. I don't really see why Hartley is being picked out as looking tired, when it was a lethargic performance all round. I think you read it exactly right. It was the sort of game when players would be looking to their captain for inspitation and guidance to drive them on, and he himself was having more than he could cope with marking his man. We also missed Orr, for all his faults when the backs are against the wall he tries to rally the troops. I suppose I was looking for Hartley to take the role but we were swamped again and again. We gave them a unfortunate OG (think they probably would have scored anyway mind) but there's nothing like an OG against you to drop your heads. We were also having our brightest spell when they scored again, and the rest is history. I'd say don't judge them on the past, its gone. Lets see how they do in the next game, and the next after that before we decide our season is over and players are past it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 You thought, Hartley aside, that the midfield looked fresh and full of running? I didn't. I think they got demoralised and frustrated after quarter of an hour, and stopped doing the simple things well. Chasing the ball is a lot more tiring than being in possession, mentally as well as physically. It drains you. Had we gone one up and taken the wind out of Cardiff's sails, I think we'd have seen a much brighter performance all round. I don't really see why Hartley is being picked out as looking tired, when it was a lethargic performance all round. You haven't answered my question. Do you think Hartley is "Bristol City" fit? I'm picking him out as looking tired because against Ajax he was puffing about 5 minutes after he came on (and looked woefully unfit). Against both QPR and Crystal Palace he disappeared round about 60 minutes. He was powder-puff against Cardiff. Granted the formation didn't help but he could have comunicated this to GJ (presumably he didn't as nothing was changed...). In fairness, fitness can be gained and he certainly has the talent. However, I find it odd that he is being picked whilst another (alledgedly) unfit talented player is being sidelined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tales From The Front Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 You haven't answered my question. Do you think Hartley is "Bristol City" fit? I'm picking him out as looking tired because against Ajax he was puffing about 5 minutes after he came on (and looked woefully unfit). Against both QPR and Crystal Palace he disappeared round about 60 minutes. He was powder-puff against Cardiff. Granted the formation didn't help but he could have comunicated this to GJ (presumably he didn't as nothing was changed...). In fairness, fitness can be gained and he certainly has the talent. However, I find it odd that he is being picked whilst another (alledgedly) unfit talented player is being sidelined. I'd be very interested to read you resume on Lee Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 I'd be very interested to read you resume on Lee Johnson Against Cardiff, he was ******* awful. He was that bad that I'm not sure whether he is fit or not (although he is normally very fit). Forgot to mention: I'm an LJ fan although Hartley makes me realise that perhaps he isn't as good as I thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 You haven't answered my question. Do you think Hartley is "Bristol City" fit? I'm picking him out as looking tired because against Ajax he was puffing about 5 minutes after he came on (and looked woefully unfit). Against both QPR and Crystal Palace he disappeared round about 60 minutes. He was powder-puff against Cardiff. Granted the formation didn't help but he could have comunicated this to GJ (presumably he didn't as nothing was changed...). In fairness, fitness can be gained and he certainly has the talent. However, I find it odd that he is being picked whilst another (alledgedly) unfit talented player is being sidelined. I don't think he'd be in the side if he wasn't up to standard with his core fitness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted August 24, 2009 Report Share Posted August 24, 2009 I don't really believe a player who was playing for Strachan (who was fit enough for top flight until about 38) up until this season is not fit enough for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 I don't think he'd be in the side if he wasn't up to standard with his core fitness. Do you think he is fit then? I don't really believe a player who was playing for Strachan (who was fit enough for top flight until about 38) up until this season is not fit enough for us. Ditto. In the four games (3 live) I have seen him play he has either not started or disappeared long before the end. I also think these silly bookings are not unrelated to his lack of fitness. This may just be match fitness. I don't know what his history is with regards number of games to get up to speed. Hopefully, it's about 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Yes. Or '32' as most people call it once they get beyond the age of 9. Or 32 and 5 sixths when you're aged 16 and studying for GCSE 'O' level Mathematics. I'd save Paul Hartley for the league games as getting promotion should be the priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seend Red Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Agreed. Needs resting through the season, 3 games in a week is too much for him. But who will replace him? Don't be daft. He's 32 not 82! Ther is absolutely no resson why he shouldn't be as fit as the rest of the squad and as a result be able to play week in week out. There are players older than Hartley playing with no problems. For example Ian Alexander at Burnley who turns 38 in October. I'm sure if he read your comments he'd be very offended! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperRed Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Don't be daft. He's 32 not 82! Ther is absolutely no resson why he shouldn't be as fit as the rest of the squad and as a result be able to play week in week out. There are players older than Hartley playing with no problems. For example Ian Alexander at Burnley who turns 38 in October. I'm sure if he read your comments he'd be very offended! So because so and so is older than Hartley and he is fit, that means Hartley must be just as fit as him. I like your logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Don't be daft. He's 32 not 82! Ther is absolutely no resson why he shouldn't be as fit as the rest of the squad and as a result be able to play week in week out. There are players older than Hartley playing with no problems. For example Ian Alexander at Burnley who turns 38 in October. I'm sure if he read your comments he'd be very offended! Dele was 33 and struggled to play 3 times a week - by struggle I mean, he could play 3 times a week, but was not the same player with the same energy. If he played once a week he was brilliant, more than that and he was not very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petehinton Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Dele was 33 and struggled to play 3 times a week - by struggle I mean, he could play 3 times a week, but was not the same player with the same energy. If he played once a week he was brilliant, more than that and he was not very good. amen and wasn't Hartley a surplus requirement at Celtic, as in he was on the bench a lot? Surely a player of his age with little first team football in the last 6 months needs more than 4 games to get back to his peak fitness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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