What Do You Think Of Gary's Negative Tactics?

[edson]

What you make it up as you go along

Hilarious.

[Guest ashtonyate]

Since GJ joined BCFC his negative tactics seem to of had a v positive effect on our football club. I guess there are some that would rather be winning 3-0 every week back in div 1. (theatrical sighhhhh!).

The Club has got to move on from scoring a goal and hanging on like grim death.You may want to watch that type of football and justify it with league position but fans will only put up with it for so long,Its not cheap to watch football and if they are not being entertained they will talk with there feet.

One thing that puzzles me is how many is how many of the posters go to games and see it for really not just read about it.

[BCFC_Dan]

I don't moan about every thing the Club does I moan about every thing the club does wrong.

Just one example how the hell could you renew Sprouls contract he is just not up to CC standard

You seem to think the club does pretty much everything wrong, yet you seem incapable of identifying any kind of practical alternatives.

Sproule is very fast and if there's one thing defenders hate facing more than anything it's pace. He may not be the most effective player individually but his running can stretch defensive and create space for other, better players. Certainly the opposition cannot afford to leave him unmarked.

[edson]

The Club has got to move on from scoring a goal and hanging on like grim death.You may want to watch that type of football and justify it with league position but fans will only put up with it for so long,Its not cheap to watch football and if they are not being entertained they will talk with there feet.

One thing that puzzles me is how many is how many of the posters go to games and see it for really not just read about it.

To be honest, that would be an improvement.

[Guest ashtonyate]

You seem to think the club does pretty much everything wrong, yet you seem incapable of identifying any kind of practical alternatives.

Sproule is very fast and if there's one thing defenders hate facing more than anything it's pace. He may not be the most effective player individually but his running can stretch defensive and create space for other, better players. Certainly the opposition cannot afford to leave him unmarked.

Sproule is very fast and that's it, he is the worst player at the club and never should have been offered a new contract.

[Guest ashtonyate]

To be honest, that would be an improvement.

I suppose they would be cheesed off

[BCFC_Dan]

Sproule is very fast and that's it, he is the worst player at the club and never should have been offered a new contract.

But as I explained, there is some value in having a player who is very fast, even if he isn't that good at football.

He panics defenders and creates space for others. If they leave him completely unmarked there is still a good chance of him scoring, even if he messes up 9 times out of 10.

[Guest ashtonyate]

But as I explained, there is some value in having a player who is very fast, even if he isn't that good at football.

He panics defenders and creates space for others. If they leave him completely unmarked there is still a good chance of him scoring, even if he messes up 9 times out of 10.

Sorry mate you are wrong he is not good enough to play in the CC

[leobcfc1]

I think he's only good enough for the last 10 minutes of a match.

I feel that Gary uses these tactics because they're useful against teams like Barnsley away where we will need to defend as a unit, possibly on a one goal lead.

I'm sure Gary knows that when we play against the bigger teams in the division like Newcastle away, we will adjust our tactics to suit our game.

We won't be able to cope with their strength up front all the time and it is at this stage that we'll then likely go to a more offensive style of play.

[Bristoliain]

But as I explained, there is some value in having a player who is very fast, even if he isn't that good at football.

He panics defenders and creates space for others. If they leave him completely unmarked there is still a good chance of him scoring, even if he messes up 9 times out of 10.

Pace is a dangerous weapon to have but you have to have the end product to make that pace worthwile. It's no good skinning all these fullbacks if the cross ends up in Row G. Look at Aaron Lennon, tons of pace and is improving his crossing and passing and now his a genuine claim to the England right wing.

Sproule, pure and simple, doesn't have the end product. Look at the other wingers in this league, they all add a cutting edge to the attack through qality service into the box. The only way that Ivan could develop quality service would be if he got a job at Frankie and Benny's up at Cribbs.

[BCFC_Dan]

Sorry mate you are wrong he is not good enough to play in the CC

I see. That's won the argument, has it?

Well, sorry mate you are wrong. He is good enough to play in the CC. This statement is backed up by the fact that he is regularly picked to do so by one of the longest serving and most respected managers in the country.

[westy]

I think it will improve when Riberio & Blackman start to replace Orr & McAlister

They are good solid defensive wise but neither Bradders or Mac (any more) are gifted with pace or ability to take opposition fullbacks on and get to byeline (even if Bradders did we all know that 9/10 crosses are cack)

Once we have the youth and ability in the FB positions we will create more but until then and without wingers we are & will be very narrow in our play and not create much apart from long passing ~(note: not long ball hoof) - for our only pace (the strikers) to latch onto

bang on - Orr and McAllister are very good FB's but they are not great WB's IMO

Not having natural wingers is our achilles heel this year because we lack formation options at the moment - having said that we do have quality in strength troughout the squad whether it's enough to be consistant with 3-5-2 or 4-3-3 we we see in April / May

[edson]

Pace is a dangerous weapon to have but you have to have the end product to make that pace worthwile. It's no good skinning all these fullbacks if the cross ends up in Row G. Look at Aaron Lennon, tons of pace and is improving his crossing and passing and now his a genuine claim to the England right wing.

Sproule, pure and simple, doesn't have the end product. Look at the other wingers in this league, they all add a cutting edge to the attack through qality service into the box. The only way that Ivan could develop quality service would be if he got a job at Frankie and Benny's up at Cribbs.

Interestingly, Ronaldo only had a 16% success rate with his crossing at Man U.

He made up for it with his goalscoring, though, obviously.

[westy]

But as I explained, there is some value in having a player who is very fast, even if he isn't that good at football.

He panics defenders and creates space for others. If they leave him completely unmarked there is still a good chance of him scoring, even if he messes up 9 times out of 10.

I tend to agree with you dan, IMO he is definitely good enough for our squad and has potential to improve, if and when he improves his success rate everyone will be saying he's a different player.

What I like about him is he keeps the oppositions defense honest - and for all he lacks on finishing he always gives 100% and chases back well (probably saved us a few goals each season) and only once or twice have I seen a FB look completely comfortable marking him.

Sproule seems to be the target along with LJ for criticism this year but I just hope he proves people wrong, if he could put a couple of chances away it will give him confidence in front of goal and then who knows.

[leobcfc1]

I don't think Sproule will improve at his age because if he was going to be a good footballer at 29 he would by now have some ability to show for it.

[Pederho ll]

I don't think Sproule will improve at his age because if he was going to be a good footballer at 29 he would've been by now.

That's slightly harsh, as he is clearly a good footballer. However I do agree with your comment that he is unlikely to improve a great deal on his weakest area which is clearly his end product.

That said, I think he is a very valuable member of our squad....its great to have a player who is blessed with an abundance of pace, as it clearly gives him the opportunity of creating chances for himself but equally for other players where the defence need to double-up on him and thus leave space for Maynard et al to exploit.

[leobcfc1]

I'm inclined to agree with the majority, however I would only have him in the squad because we don't have many other options on the right wing and this is the problem for a lot of supporters as we simply we don't have the sufficient options needed for a promotion push in key areas.

I've come to accept that Gary values him as an important member of the first team squad, so I like many others have to get used to this fact as it won't change unless Gary realises that maybe he simply isn't good enough to be anything other than an impact substitute.

[Nogbad the Bad]

I tend to agree with you dan, IMO he is definitely good enough for our squad and has potential to improve, if and when he improves his success rate everyone will be saying he's a different player.

No potential to improve, he's getting on a bit and 2 years of coaching at AG have done absolutely nothing to improve his woeful crossing and shooting ability or baffling decision making.

What I like about him is he keeps the oppositions defense honest - and for all he lacks on finishing he always gives 100% and chases back well (probably saved us a few goals each season) and only once or twice have I seen a FB look completely comfortable marking him.

You'd expect him to chase back, but I think it's stretching things to suggest 'he may have saved us a few goals'. The full back won't be too panicky being beaten for pace when he will be fully aware there is no end product.

Sproule seems to be the target along with LJ for criticism this year but I just hope he proves people wrong, if he could put a couple of chances away it will give him confidence in front of goal and then who knows.

He won't get the chances in the first team now to prove people wrong even if he were capable of doing so. Sproule is not a particular 'target for criticism this year' - most City fans could see very early on that he is not Championship class, but hoped he might improve. He hasn't, so I'd say he gets an incredibly easy ride from the fans considering the constant diet of frustration he provides.

[Nogbad the Bad]

I see. That's won the argument, has it?

Well, sorry mate you are wrong. He is good enough to play in the CC. This statement is backed up by the fact that he is regularly picked to do so by one of the longest serving and most respected managers in the country.

You said Ivan "is not that good at football" and he "messes up nine times out of 10".

I don't think ashtonyate needed to win any argument after you wrote that.

Dan, by those comments, you yourself have stated that Ivan is not Championship standard.

[BCFC_Dan]

You said Ivan "is not that good at football" and he "messes up nine times out of 10".

I don't think ashtonyate needed to win any argument after you wrote that.

Dan, by those comments, you yourself have stated that Ivan is not Championship standard.

No, I didn't. Please read what I wrote again and you will see that I didn't.

I said that a pacy player was valuable even if he is not that good and even if he messes up 9 times out of 10. I never said either of those things were actually true of Ivan.

Besides which, at what point did I define "Championship standard"? Maybe 1 time in 10 is good enough for Championship standard.

[Nogbad the Bad]

No, I didn't. Please read what I wrote again and you will see that I didn't.

I've just read it again, I can't see any possibility of misunderstanding the "he messes up nine times out of ten" however you read it. Did you not mean that?

I said that a pacy player was valuable even if he is not that good and even if he messes up 9 times out of 10. I never said either of those things were actually true of Ivan.

Pace seems to be the only recurring argument in Ivan's favour as far as I can see. Many might argue that pace without an end product, or a footballing brain, is next to worthless.

Besides which, at what point did I define "Championship standard"? Maybe 1 time in 10 is good enough for Championship standard.

It isn't though, is it. I would define Championship standard as whether a player is capable of being consistently effective at that level, and, in turn, be deserving of a new contract. I don't believe, on 2 years evidence, that Ivan fits that criterion. You are saying that Ivan was worthy of a new contract so therefore, it follows, you believe him to be up to the Championship standard Bristol City require. Do you think any of our Championship promotion rivals would find a place for Ivan in their match day squad?

:

[BCFC_Dan]

Sorry, I obviously didn't make myself clear enough.

I do believe Ivan to be a good player at Championship level because of his pace.

The point about messing up 9 times out of 10 was simply to say that defenders can't afford to leave him alone because even if he does mess up 9 times out of 10 (note here that I do not say that he does have that failure rate, I have no idea what the stats are) there is a 1 in 10 (or whatever) chance he will do something that leads to a goal.

I think a number of other Championship sides could find a place for him in their matchday squads, especially if they had the kind of injury crisis City is currently experiencing.

[Nogbad the Bad]

I do believe Ivan to be a good player at Championship level because of his pace.

The crux of the matter must surely be whether fans see Ivan's pace as game affecting enough in it's own right to justify City offering him a new contract, because his outstanding pace seems to be the only argument in his favour.

I don't think it is enough when coupled with such consistently poor end product.

I can't think of many players at our level who have made a successful football career more or less out of remarkable pace alone, and I don't imagine any of our promotion rivals would see that as being enough.

[Guest ashtonyate]

No, I didn't. Please read what I wrote again and you will see that I didn't.

I said that a pacy player was valuable even if he is not that good and even if he messes up 9 times out of 10. I never said either of those things were actually true of Ivan.

Besides which, at what point did I define "Championship standard"? Maybe 1 time in 10 is good enough for Championship standard.

I don't know how often you watch City I know in one of your post you said its not very often which is fair enough. I have watched all Sproule games at home and he is not worth his place.

Yes he is used as a impact player but even then he is not that much of an impact on the team his shooting and crossing is of park football standard he can get into good position but has no finish what so ever.

It would be intresting to run a poll and see how many think we should have gave him a new contract that would give the answer to how fans view him.

Having said that he seems a nice man he always seems to have a kick about with the Mascots and gave one of them his track suit top when it was cold which was nice but as a player no way.

[Alex_BCFC]

Ivan Sproule is a Championship standard sub for the last 10 minutes of a match.

As a starter- well he is a non-starter. He only has pace and very little ability. I wouldn't mind if he was cover but we really don't have any wingers of championship standard who can start. That's fine for when you play 3-5-2 etc but when that doesn't work we have problems in creating a decent 4-4-2.

Just because GJ gave him a new contract doesn't mean he is right. GJ isn't right with everything, he does make mistakes- look at Brian Wilson.

[Ian M]

Yes I will explain we played in a deference formation that's why we never scored goals when was the last time did a team reach the play off finale with a negative goal deference that why the football was boring predictable last season until all the members of the team

can stand on their own ability and not be carried we will have to play tight at the back.

I give up, when was the last time a team reached the play off final with a negative goal difference.

I don't moan about every thing the Club does I moan about every thing the club does wrong.

Just one example how the hell could you renew Sprouls contract he is just not up to CC standard

Sorry Ashtonyate, Moomin asked you to provide an example of something you are happy with at City, not provide yet another example of something you think is wrong.

What you make it up as you go along

Sorry again ashtonyate, edson asked you to look closer to home and "Happy Clappy Land" is the furthest away you can possibly get from your home.

[leobcfc1]

I do believe Ivan to be a good player at Championship level because of his pace.

Dan, going by your criteria for a good Championship winger we'd do just as well with Usain Bolt on the right.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Gary Johnson is the best manager I've experienced at AG. I'm saying this first.

We haven't scored 3 goals since December. We scored 3 or more goals 3 times last season. We don't score goals, we don't really create much but we are solid, workmanlike and effective.

Do you think we should strike a better balance? Do you think Gary has the ability to do it? Or is it just better to play safe with the negative style that has got us and him so far?

I think it affects our gates, I think it affects our performances in matches where usually the more positive team wins. There aren't many negative teams that go up or who win titles. You can be good at defending without giving up on the other side of the game.

This isn't particularly about style, i think we play an acceptable if not good brand of football mixing up passing and direct play depending on who's on the ball.

Generally speaking we don't score enough goals and this has been the case throughout GJ's tenure.

I well remember being at GJ's first game at Brentford and we immediately looked like a team who could score goals, and did.

However, for whatever reason, be it avoiding relegation, going for, and getting promotion, going for the play offs etc. we became a less adventurous side and the ends justified the means in so far as we achieved our goals - without actually scoring many!!

Last season we still struggled to score but it became more noticable, and less acceptable, as the season petered out into a boring mid table finish. Rather than overcoming teams by a small margin we were being caught out with sucker punches to either draw or lose games, often because we were simply incapable of putting games to bed by increasing leads or scoring in the first place.

We've never created enough opportunities for easy goals, rather relying on a high proportion of exceptional one's - Carey's, Noble's and Trundle's in the play offs being prime examples, but 'ordinary' goals have been at a premium throughout. This season once again, Maynards goals have been one outstanding strike after another without a tap -in in sight.

Maynard's new found maturity and confidence will be a big bonus this year and GJ obviously recognises there has been a problem with the addition of potentially far more electrifying players in Haynes, Sno and Saborio who will hopefully make this a far more exciting season, goal tally wise and entertainment wise, than last.

Wouldn't it be a fantastic change to notch 2 or 3 in the FIRST half just once so we could actually enjoy the rest of the match looking to score a high tally rather than constantly being anxious right to the final whistle that we can hold out?

[leobcfc1]

Absolutely bang on with your assessment mate, only thing I'll add is that we won't be able to rely on Maynard scoring stunning goals throughout the course of the season because we will need someone such as Hartley to take the pressure off him and chip in with a few assists and goals.

[Guest ashtonyate]

I give up, when was the last time a team reached the play off final with a negative goal difference.

Sorry Ashtonyate, Moomin asked you to provide an example of something you are happy with at City, not provide yet another example of something you think is wrong.

Sorry again ashtonyate, edson asked you to look closer to home and "Happy Clappy Land" is the furthest away you can possibly get from your home.

I will answer the question like this on a scale of 0 to 10 I would give the club 5, too many fans are blinded by us being in the CC and having a couple of high placings finishes.

They seem to turn a blind eye to a lot of the failings of the Club and Manager,also giving a good end of season position as a substitute for entertaining football.

I am not going to judge this season yet until xmas time but there are warning bells ringing over a couple of the new players.

I probably am negative with City that's is likly after watching 50 years of unfulfilled dreams which is because of lack of money and expertises to get the basic things right,

but there again there are a lot of them in the other camp who can't face up to warts and all scenario.