What Do You Think Of Gary's Negative Tactics?

[Ian M]

I will answer the question like this on a scale of 0 to 10 I would give the club 5, too many fans are blinded by us being in the CC and having a couple of high placings finishes.

They seem to turn a blind eye to a lot of the failings of the Club and Manager,also giving a good end of season position as a substitute for entertaining football.

I am not going to judge this season yet until xmas time but there are warning bells ringing over a couple of the new players.

I probably am negative with City that's is likly after watching 50 years of unfulfilled dreams which is because of lack of money and expertises to get the basic things right,

but there again there are a lot of them in the other camp who can't face up to warts and all scenario.

....and the last team to reach the play off final with a negative goal difference was?

[Robbored]

I will answer the question like this on a scale of 0 to 10 I would give the club 5, too many fans are blinded by us being in the CC and having a couple of high placings finishes.

They seem to turn a blind eye to a lot of the failings of the Club and Manager,also giving a good end of season position as a substitute for entertaining football.

I am not going to judge this season yet until xmas time but there are warning bells ringing over a couple of the new players.

I probably am negative with City that's is likly after watching 50 years of unfulfilled dreams which is because of lack of money and expertises to get the basic things right,

but there again there are a lot of them in the other camp who can't face up to warts and all scenario.

AY, you do come over as a miserable git who sees nothing positive and I have in the past critised you. However on this post you are imo absoloutely right.

City under Johnson got out of the First Divison and for that GJ deserves applause but in our last two CCC seasons City have flattered to decieve. Two decent league table finishes are there in the history books but when you look beyond that you see a plethora of weaknesses. The goal difference when compared to other top sides is appauling. Not enought goals scored despite having strikers that had good records at other clubs and defensively not that strong with 6-0, two 4-1 (one at AG) and 4-0 defeats on the record.

City certainly played more attractive football under Jordan,Ward and Wilson - albeit in the lower leagues and I for one long for the days again when you expected City to put on a show at AG. These days I just hope for a City goal.

The point you make about 'unfullfilled dreams' is spot on and one that younger fans won't comprehend but when you have watched City for as long as you have being disapointed season after season it becomes a mindset and imo Johnson has done nothing to allay it. City don't play attractive football, don't turn teams over by several goals as often as they used to and always look capable of concededing too many. When I go AG these days I have no idea as to what City will turn up.

In the first CCC season City had almost every ounce of good fortune going and last season it deserted them. This season City have thrown away two points at PNE, had one very lucky result against Palace. Played well for 45 mins against QPR but only a brilliantly taken goal from Maynard nicked the points. Got outplayed and out thought in front of the Sky camara's at Cardiff and again only a brilliant brace from Maynard got the result against Boro. He also got another fantastic strike to get a point at Coventry.

The facts are that City in the last two seasons have been unconvincing and I've seen nothing yet to change that view. Compare City's results with those teams that have gone up, Brum, WBA, Stoke, and ask your self how many City players would be in the starting 11 of any of those clubs?

Answer? not many - if any.

[miketh2nd]

In the first CCC season City had almost every ounce of good fortune going and last season it deserted them. This season City have thrown away two points at PNE, had one very lucky result against Palace. Played well for 45 mins against QPR but only a brilliantly taken goal from Maynard nicked the points. Got outplayed and out thought in front of the Sky camara's at Cardiff and again only a brilliant brace from Maynard got the result against Boro. He also got another fantastic strike to get a point at Coventry.

.

[garlicbread]

Oh my f~~:~ng days!!!

Yet again there are people on here trying to assasinate a bloke who took us from no hopers to where we are now (on a tight budget). We are now competing on a level that I only dreamed of for years! The guy is clearly progressing this club, and yet people moan about tactics and Ivan Sproule/Lee Johnson (delete as appropriate).

The Ashtonyates of this world will always moan (even man utd forums have them). For a sense of perspective, have a look at the archives and see the chat about the likes of league one chat about Peacock, coles, butler etc etc.......

Facts (results) show that Johnson is doing an amazing job, so get off his back and remember where we are now FFS, I couldnt give a warm shite if it's pretty fooball or not, I care about results and league placings .....some of us are still pinching ourselves that we are where we are, sommat that I dreamed of for years and years.

Sometimes I believe that some cnuts on here would rather we were in league 1....would give 'em more to moan at!!!!

Grow up!!!!

In Gary Johnson I trust

(cue some numpty talking about sproule beig crap)

[Guest ashtonyate]

....and the last team to reach the play off final with a negative goal difference was?

I would think it was us

[edson]

AY, you do come over as a miserable git who sees nothing positive and I have in the past critised you. However on this post you are imo absoloutely right.

City under Johnson got out of the First Divison and for that GJ deserves applause but in our last two CCC seasons City have flattered to decieve. Two decent league table finishes are there in the history books but when you look beyond that you see a plethora of weaknesses. The goal difference when compared to other top sides is appauling. Not enought goals scored despite having strikers that had good records at other clubs and defensively not that strong with 6-0, two 4-1 (one at AG) and 4-0 defeats on the record.

City certainly played more attractive football under Jordan,Ward and Wilson - albeit in the lower leagues and I for one long for the days again when you expected City to put on a show at AG. These days I just hope for a City goal.

The point you make about 'unfullfilled dreams' is spot on and one that younger fans won't comprehend but when you have watched City for as long as you have being disapointed season after season it becomes a mindset and imo Johnson has done nothing to allay it. City don't play attractive football, don't turn teams over by several goals as often as they used to and always look capable of concededing too many. When I go AG these days I have no idea as to what City will turn up.

In the first CCC season City had almost every ounce of good fortune going and last season it deserted them. This season City have thrown away two points at PNE, had one very lucky result against Palace. Played well for 45 mins against QPR but only a brilliantly taken goal from Maynard nicked the points. Got outplayed and out thought in front of the Sky camara's at Cardiff and again only a brilliant brace from Maynard got the result against Boro. He also got another fantastic strike to get a point at Coventry.

The facts are that City in the last two seasons have been unconvincing and I've seen nothing yet to change that view. Compare City's results with those teams that have gone up, Brum, WBA, Stoke, and ask your self how many City players would be in the starting 11 of any of those clubs?

Answer? not many - if any.

Johnson hasn't done anything to allay the negative mindset amongst some City fans? Well, I'd say he's done a hell of a lot to allay it among a decent proportion of fans, but there will always be some who will never just enjoy the now and who are determined to pour misery on everything the club tries to do, regardless of promotions, play off finals and top ten finishes.

Where, precisely did you hope/expect us to be after two seasons in the Championship? Has the club honestly not surpassed your expectations since GJ arrived?

So we've only got our 12 points this season because our striker has scored goals? And that's a bad thing?

The two goals against Boro were well taken, but hardly opportunist strikes. He was played in by Hartley on both occasions because the team sussed their weaknesses and exploited them. I recall you fearing City would be beaten by four or five in that particular game. But again, apparently this was just luck because Maynard took two goals well.

Can you honestly say we got more than we deserved against Boro and Coventry? If your answer is 'yes', then I suspect I don't watch the same game as you, thankfully.

It's not a 'fact' that City have been unconvincing, it's your opinion. It's a fact that we've finished in the top ten in our first two seasons in the Championship and are once again challenging in that bracket in our third, though. But, apparently, we need to look beyond facts when it suits you and call opinion fact when the facts don't fit.

[grifty]

Just because GJ gave him a new contract doesn't mean he is right. GJ isn't right with everything, he does make mistakes- look at Brian Wilson.

Brian Wilson was man of the match 2 out of 3 games last year. Not saying he's mint or owt, but I think for the lack of game time he gets, he does a fair enough job when he's asked too.

I also believe he's probably our most useful player! either full back poisition, either wing, probably central midfield. Useful utility man.

With regards to Sproule... If he had his pace and had a decent final product, he'd play in the prem.

[Ian M]

I would think it was us

I would not

[Robbored]

Johnson hasn't done anything to allay the negative mindset amongst some City fans? Well, I'd say he's done a hell of a lot to allay it among a decent proportion of fans, but there will always be some who will never just enjoy the now and who are determined to pour misery on everything the club tries to do, regardless of promotions, play off finals and top ten finishes.

Where, precisely did you hope/expect us to be after two seasons in the Championship? Has the club honestly not surpassed your expectations since GJ arrived?

So we've only got our 12 points this season because our striker has scored goals? And that's a bad thing?

The two goals against Boro were well taken, but hardly opportunist strikes. He was played in by Hartley on both occasions because the team sussed their weaknesses and exploited them. I recall you fearing City would be beaten by four or five in that particular game. But again, apparently this was just luck because Maynard took two goals well.

Can you honestly say we got more than we deserved against Boro and Coventry? If your answer is 'yes', then I suspect I don't watch the same game as you, thankfully.

It's not a 'fact' that City have been unconvincing, it's your opinion. It's a fact that we've finished in the top ten in our first two seasons in the Championship and are once again challenging in that bracket in our third, though. But, apparently, we need to look beyond facts when it suits you and call opinion fact when the facts don't fit.

Would you not agree that last season City struggled for 75% of the season? It was only the 10 game period around xmas and into feb than kept City out of a relegation dog fight. City's home form was diabolocal. 6 wins out of 23 home games is relegation form in anyones book.

One reason that City dropped so many home many points was down to not killing teams off having taken the lead and then concedeing late equalisers. Not enough goals in other words. The football was mostly dire to watch and this season ST sales are down by around 2000.

In the first CCC season there was the novelty of playing a better standard of football against better teams but looking back City got quite a few one goal wins at AG and on occaisions were battered only to hang and nick the poiints. That good fortune deserted City last season hence such a poor home record.

Imo City have flattered to decieve and simply pointing at league tables is far too simplistic.

So far this season City have played convincing football for one 45 min period but couldn't sustain it. They got pushed back for most of the second half after QPR re-organised and only a defensive slip allowed Maynard to score a very well taken goal and nick the points.

Who knows what City will turn up this afternoon? Could be another impressive 45 min display but equally could be another weak perfomance as at Cardiff. One thing I'm confident about is that City won't score more than 2 goals.

[Frenchay Red]

I suspect that the truth lies somewhere between the two extremes currently being discussed on here.

First season we were back in the 2nd tier we did very well, rode our luck a bit and called on our team spirit to get us through on a number of occasions to secure a fantastic, but ultimately disappointing place in the play-off final. We didn't really build much from that success and last year we were found wanting, and our style of play, because of a lack of quality, left us scraping for points in many games. This year GJ has added some quality and the two recent additions look promising. It is however impossible to judge at the moment because of the newness of certain players to the squad and more importantly the fact that we have been hit really badly with illness and injury. I am hopeful that we can improve this season and put in some good performances, but until we have everybody fit and well, giving GJ a selection headache, I am happy if we keep picking up points without necessarily putting on champange footie.

[Nogbad the Bad]

I would say GJ has gone a long way to allaying the negative mindset amongst some City fans. Our progress since he arrived has been nothing short of stunning and must have renewed pride and enthusiasm in the club for the vast majority.

However, there's nothing negative or over critical in wanting to see more expansive, attacking football and an increase in goals, especially at home.

Many fans will be completely satisfied with a good percentage of hard fought narrow wins or draws that lead to a play off or top half position and will renew their season tickets accordingly for more of the same.

For others though the journey, week by week, has to be more enjoyable than it has been, particularly last season. There is plenty of evidence on this forum of City fans saying they have not renewed due to limited entertainment value (far too many home draws) as well as others who are considering not renewing for next season if their matchday experience does not become more enjoyable.

For them a season of constantly grinding out results hoping to get into the play offs with most matches being a low scoring war of attrition clearly isn't enough, especially if City fail, by some distance, to achieve that goal. You are then left to look back on a great many disappointing home games and no end of season excitement to show for it.

I don't think there's any doubt that GJ and SL have recognised this problem, hence the signings we have seen in the close season and since. On paper at least these players should improve the home matchday experience hugely, both in terms of entertainment and goals.

We need to be winning more convincingly more often at home and there's nothing wrong with fans saying they yearn for more entertaining, attacking football and goals - it's a basic requirement for many - especially as there's no particular reason why a more positive mindset at AG should affect our final position adversely.

It's quite possible that GJ has sacrificed his formerly natural attacking football philosophy to attain success quickly from the dreadful position he inherited. More than likely we will be in this division for a number of years yet, and if we accept that likelihood then we can be a bit more positive in our outlook and re-establish City's long held reputation as an attacking team so that every visit to Ashton Gate is an occasion to savour.

That was very often the case in League One under lesser managers when we took teams by the throat at AG - we are now established in this division, have far better players, and in the happy position where we can afford to approach Championship matches in a more adventurous manner.

[numbeast]

AY, you do come over as a miserable git who sees nothing positive and I have in the past critised you. However on this post you are imo absoloutely right.

City under Johnson got out of the First Divison and for that GJ deserves applause but in our last two CCC seasons City have flattered to decieve. Two decent league table finishes are there in the history books but when you look beyond that you see a plethora of weaknesses. The goal difference when compared to other top sides is appauling. Not enought goals scored despite having strikers that had good records at other clubs and defensively not that strong with 6-0, two 4-1 (one at AG) and 4-0 defeats on the record. (our 2 best finishes for how many years? We've stepped up a league and now play against better teams many of whom have cash from thir forays into the Prem yet we still manage 2 top 10 finishes in our first 2 years back at that level)

City certainly played more attractive football under Jordan,Ward and Wilson - albeit in the lower leagues (If we were in league 1 we'd be playing amazing football against, and I mean no disrespect to them, lower standard sides. Would you like any of the managers you mentioned back at AG?) and I for one long for the days again when you expected City to put on a show at AG. These days I just hope for a City goal.

The point you make about 'unfullfilled dreams' is spot on and one that younger fans won't comprehend but when you have watched City for as long as you have being disapointed season after season it becomes a mindset and imo Johnson has done nothing to allay it (progress being made each season and promotion to the prem possiblly as close as we've been in nearly 30 years). City don't play attractive football, don't turn teams over by several goals as often as they used to and always look capable of concededing too many. When I go AG these days I have no idea as to what City will turn up. (Being as disappointed as you seem to be with GJ and the team he picks I have no idea why you go to AG, if I was not getting entertained or felt that negative I would avoid the place like the plague)

In the first CCC season City had almost every ounce of good fortune going and last season it deserted them. (and still finished 10th!) This season City have thrown away two points at PNE, had one very lucky result against Palace. Played well for 45 mins against QPR but only a brilliantly taken goal from Maynard nicked the points. Got outplayed and out thought in front of the Sky camara's at Cardiff and again only a brilliant brace from Maynard got the result against Boro. He also got another fantastic strike to get a point at Coventry. ( If a dodgy pen 2 mins over the alloted injury time is thowing away 2 pts Palace wasn't lucky CP had a goal DISALLOWED for what reason only the lino and ref seem to know but then we had a bad decision with the Hartley goal. GJ signed Maynard to score goals last season he was settling in this season he is doing his job exceptionally well, credit to GJ for signing him? I see not. I will concede the point about Cardiff we were appalling and the same goes for Carlisle) The facts are that City in the last two seasons have been unconvincing and I've seen nothing yet to change that view. Compare City's results with those teams that have gone up, Brum, WBA, Stoke, and ask your self how many City players would be in the starting 11 of any of those clubs? ( Does it escape your attention that 2 out of those 3 teams are prem yoyos thus having parachute payments to adjust their squads accordingly or that Stoke were a very well established CCC side that did very well after years of mid table finishes? We've been in the Championship how long? How close were we to the Prem the season before last? And that was with a squad of mainly league 1 players)

Answer? not many - if any. (And I'm glad about that because I'd prefer our players to stay with us)

It seems GJ can be held responsible for all the failures but gets no credit for the successes the club has achieved over the last few years. Gary Johnson isn't God nor is he right all the time (I think the technical term for that is "Human") but in my 35 years of watching City this rates as one of the best periods for being a City fan and GJ is right up there with Alan Dicks and Joe Jordan (1st spell). Gary and Steve Lansdown are trying to build a side capable of challenging for promotion which takes time unlike the Ward/Davidson era when we tried to fire ourselves to promotion and only got relagated. There are some on here who wear rose tinted glasses I will grant you but there also seems to be a larger proportion who seem to wear the sunglasses of dispair, and chant "The end is nigh"

My feelings are, on balance GJ has done more good for the whole club than he has done harm, if he's done any harm. Bad result and lackluster game happen but the sign of a good side is getting results when things are going badly and at the moment thigs are bad on the illness/injury front (and please don't blame GJ for that) but the vast majority still expect us to win. Times are good far better than under Wilson or Tinnion and I for one am happy to support the City at this exciting time for the club!

[Strictly Obi]

Well done GJ.....keep up the good work!

[Nogbad the Bad]

Brian Wilson was man of the match 2 out of 3 games last year. Not saying he's mint or owt, but I think for the lack of game time he gets, he does a fair enough job when he's asked too.

I also believe he's probably our most useful player! either full back poisition, either wing, probably central midfield. Useful utility man.

Wilson is willing to play anywhere for the team and is therefore, as you say, a very useful player.

I'd say asking him to play at left back is definitely asking too much, he's simply not good enough there.

I'm not convinced about him at right back either ( although he once said it's his preferred position ) but on the right hand side of midfield or central his pace, stamina, link up play and willingness to shoot means he has a role to play. He can also cross the ball far better than Sproule.

He's not a first choice, but when judging him this season it must be borne in mind he has filled in when not fully recovered himself from serious injury, so considering that he's generally done OK., and on past form will be capable of fitting into this team in midfield more than adequately when fully fit and required.

[CliftonCliff]

I suspect that the truth lies somewhere between the two extremes currently being discussed on here.

First season we were back in the 2nd tier we did very well, rode our luck a bit and called on our team spirit to get us through on a number of occasions to secure a fantastic, but ultimately disappointing place in the play-off final. We didn't really build much from that success and last year we were found wanting, and our style of play, because of a lack of quality, left us scraping for points in many games. This year GJ has added some quality and the two recent additions look promising. It is however impossible to judge at the moment because of the newness of certain players to the squad and more importantly the fact that we have been hit really badly with illness and injury. I am hopeful that we can improve this season and put in some good performances, but until we have everybody fit and well, giving GJ a selection headache, I am happy if we keep picking up points without necessarily putting on champange footie.

I agree absolutely about "extremes" and the lack of perspective in some posts. One of the drawbacks to a forum like this (though some who like to provoke a good barney just for the sake of it might see it as a plus) is that opinions tend to get polarised. Instead of taking on board valid points made by someone with a different view to one's own, and modifying one's position accordingly, the tendency is - on the part of some, at least - to take up an increasingly entrenched stance, until you end up with a " debate", if you can call it that, that is utterly lacking in balance: unreasonably harsh criticism on the one hand; heated defence on the other. We've all seen threads that develop along these lines (quite a few of them started by one member in particular): they can easily descend into barely civilised slanging matches in which the original point is all but lost.

There is a vein of truth running through what Robbored says, but sometimes in an attempt to make his point in the face of criticism I think he goes too far. Thus you end up with a comment to the effect that to focus exclusively on league placings is too "simplistic". Try telling that to the manager, players and fans of a club that's just finished top of their particular league, whether it's the Premier or the Blue Square (or whatever the hell it's called these days). To employ a much used phrase, football is a results-driven business. Tony Mowbray last season got plenty of respect for sticking to the kind of football he believes in, and West Brom were sometimes praised for their pretty-to-watch stuff - but they got relegated by a considerable margin, whilst win-ugly merchants like Stoke did surprisingly well.

I also admired the way WBA played when they got promotion the season before last, having been at the Hawthorns to see them stuff four past us on Boxing Day. Conversely, I hate the way Stoke go about their game and wouldn't want to watch it every week. But you've got to be realistic. We played some pretty poor stuff for long periods last year and by the end of the season I was bored silly and looking forward to the Ashes series - and it's not often you'll hear me say that sort of thing, because I love my foootball - but to be fair to Johnson we are neither as purist as WBA nor as ugly as Stoke.

You have to look at it in the context of where we are in the long-term development of the club, which is an ongoing project that will take some years to reach maturity and which is being undertaken with only moderate resources. In other words, and as I said in the beginning, you need to get a bit of perspective and look at the bigger picture....

[CliftonCliff]

I would say GJ has gone a long way to allaying the negative mindset amongst some City fans. Our progress since he arrived has been nothing short of stunning and must have renewed pride and enthusiasm in the club for the vast majority.

However, there's nothing negative or over critical in wanting to see more expansive, attacking football and an increase in goals, especially at home.

Many fans will be completely satisfied with a good percentage of hard fought narrow wins or draws that lead to a play off or top half position and will renew their season tickets accordingly for more of the same.

For others though the journey, week by week, has to be more enjoyable than it has been, particularly last season. There is plenty of evidence on this forum of City fans saying they have not renewed due to limited entertainment value (far too many home draws) as well as others who are considering not renewing for next season if their matchday experience does not become more enjoyable.

For them a season of constantly grinding out results hoping to get into the play offs with most matches being a low scoring war of attrition clearly isn't enough, especially if City fail, by some distance, to achieve that goal. You are then left to look back on a great many disappointing home games and no end of season excitement to show for it.

I don't think there's any doubt that GJ and SL have recognised this problem, hence the signings we have seen in the close season and since. On paper at least these players should improve the home matchday experience hugely, both in terms of entertainment and goals.

We need to be winning more convincingly more often at home and there's nothing wrong with fans saying they yearn for more entertaining, attacking football and goals - it's a basic requirement for many - especially as there's no particular reason why a more positive mindset at AG should affect our final position adversely.

It's quite possible that GJ has sacrificed his formerly natural attacking football philosophy to attain success quickly from the dreadful position he inherited. More than likely we will be in this division for a number of years yet, and if we accept that likelihood then we can be a bit more positive in our outlook and re-establish City's long held reputation as an attacking team so that every visit to Ashton Gate is an occasion to savour.

That was very often the case in League One under lesser managers when we took teams by the throat at AG - we are now established in this division, have far better players, and in the happy position where we can afford to approach Championship matches in a more adventurous manner.

Admirably done, Nogbad. You've said much of what I was trying to get across, only you've done it better. Agree entirely with your analysis, which complies perfectly with my appeal for "perspective"!

[Robbored]

My feelings are, on balance GJ has done more good for the whole club than he has done harm, if he's done any harm. Bad result and lackluster game happen but the sign of a good side is getting results when things are going badly and at the moment thigs are bad on the illness/injury front (and please don't blame GJ for that) but the vast majority still expect us to win.

I'm not saying that Johnson has done harm!

He has got out of the lower league and for that desreves credit.

As Nogbad says there is nothing wrong with fans wanting to be entertained by watching your team play decent expansive football with not a long ball in sight and frankly we've not seen that under Johnson. Mostly City play predictable dour stuff which is uninspiring to watch. No wonder some fans complain about the lack of noise at AG from time to time - after all it all stems from whats being produced on the pitch.

Personally I enjoyed watching the style of football played under Jordan, Ward and Wilson more than the stuff produced under Johnson. I really believe that if Johnson gave his players more freedom to play thier own game then we would see far more attractive football.

[Robbored]

In other words, and as I said in the beginning, you need to get a bit of perspective and look at the bigger picture....

Which is what I was saying about our league finishes. Its easy to say fourth and tenth is satisfactory (and to some it is) but if you look at how City reached those positions then there are clear indicators as to what needs addressing.

If you take this well known simple analogy - A duck looks very serene on the water but underneath its paddling like hell. Now if you don't anything about ducks......

[Alex_BCFC]

Brian Wilson was man of the match 2 out of 3 games last year. Not saying he's mint or owt, but I think for the lack of game time he gets, he does a fair enough job when he's asked too.

I also believe he's probably our most useful player! either full back poisition, either wing, probably central midfield. Useful utility man.

Which games?! He was shocking at Cardiff and average at Coventry.

[leobcfc1]

Which is what I was saying about our league finishes. Its easy to say fourth and tenth is satisfactory (and to some it is) but if you look at how City reached those positions then there are clear indicators as to what needs addressing.

If you take this well known simple analogy - A duck looks very serene on the water but underneath its paddling like hell. Now if you don't anything about ducks......

I tend to agree because the way we finished last season was awful and for many fans it simply wasn't good enough to sustain their interest in renewing the tickets.

We didn't win any of our last 10 games last season which was incredibly worrying for some fans, if we'd won just a few of those games it wouldn't have been so bad for the majority, however seeing as we didn't we were set up for a dramatic fall in season ticket sales.

[Nogbad the Bad]

Which games?! He was shocking at Cardiff and average at Coventry.

grifty is talking about last season.

[CliftonCliff]

I'm not saying that Johnson has done harm!

He has got out of the lower league and for that desreves credit.

As Nogbad says there is nothing wrong with fans wanting to be entertained by watching your team play decent expansive football with not a long ball in sight and frankly we've not seen that under Johnson. Mostly City play predictable dour stuff which is uninspiring to watch. No wonder some fans complain about the lack of noise at AG from time to time - after all it all stems from whats being produced on the pitch.

Personally I enjoyed watching the style of football played under Jordan, Ward and Wilson more than the stuff produced under Johnson. I really believe that if Johnson gave his players more freedom to play thier own game then we would see far more attractive football.

I do agree, up to a point, but what some others have said perhaps bears repeating, because it doesn't seem to be getting through.

There are signs in the number and type of players added to the squad, and the altered tactical formation, that there is a genuine attempt to give City's game more attacking edge and to produce more entertaining football. We have, though, only had the opportunity to put this into practice so far in a very small number of matches, and those attempts have been grossly hampered by the worst outbreak of illness at the start of a season that I can recall.

Integrating so many new players at the same time as changing style of play is quite a difficult thing to do, and it becomes nigh-on impossible of you keep getting deprived of key individuals and can't play a settled side. A good deal of the critcism of last season is justified - point accepted - but we're doing this season now, and I see little point in dwelling on those criticisms rather than looking at what's happening in the present. And that will take time to evaluate, for all the reasons just given.

If there is any negativity around, it's not just in Johnson's tactics, which have thus far been dictated to some extent by circumstances beyond his control, but in the way they have been perceived here. I have never been an entirely whole-hearted GJ admirer myself, and if criticism seems merited I will say my piece in due course, but for the moment I think we really do need to wait and see what develops from what amounts to a substantial rebuilding of the team - and that will take months, not days or weeks.

A key statistic for me will be our goal difference, which reveals a lot about the way a team plays, and which has been too close to zero for my liking for several seasons. If that improves, I think you'll see more smiles around AG, and fewer complaints on here.

[Alex_BCFC]

grifty is talking about last season.

So he is. Perhaps I should learn to read...!

[Guest ashtonyate]

I'm not saying that Johnson has done harm!

He has got out of the lower league and for that desreves credit.

As Nogbad says there is nothing wrong with fans wanting to be entertained by watching your team play decent expansive football with not a long ball in sight and frankly we've not seen that under Johnson. Mostly City play predictable dour stuff which is uninspiring to watch. No wonder some fans complain about the lack of noise at AG from time to time - after all it all stems from whats being produced on the pitch.

Personally I enjoyed watching the style of football played under Jordan, Ward and Wilson more than the stuff produced under Johnson. I really believe that if Johnson gave his players more freedom to play thier own game then we would see far more attractive football.

I will always be greatful to Johnson for sorting out the drink culture here when he first came

to the Club that to me is one of his greatest achievement.

To me its since we came up I started to be disappointed firstly I think promotion was there for the taking but for the lack of a goal scorer now the team were not that good but every thing was going for us.

The second season there should have been whole sale changes like this season but for what ever reason we never done it.

It showed in our lack of ability last season with the poor football we played.

This season we are still waiting to see a settled side but that said this is our third season in the CC and yet we still have at least 3 players who should have gone last window Johnson Sproule & Williams.

Another point is with those 3 players still vying for first team slots and not being challenged by the younger X City academy players which is a great slur on the Academy.

To me Johnson has progressed the club forward but if I am being honest I don't think he will takes us to the Premier League.

[garlicbread]

Which is what I was saying about our league finishes. Its easy to say fourth and tenth is satisfactory (and to some it is) but if you look at how City reached those positions then there are clear indicators as to what needs addressing.

If you take this well known simple analogy - A duck looks very serene on the water but underneath its paddling like hell. Now if you don't anything about ducks......

I know that ducks taste great with plum sauce and pancakes, I dont care how they get to my plate...

Just like when city win 1-0, I dont give a monkeys how they got there

[CliftonCliff]

Which is what I was saying about our league finishes. Its easy to say fourth and tenth is satisfactory (and to some it is) but if you look at how City reached those positions then there are clear indicators as to what needs addressing.

If you take this well known simple analogy - A duck looks very serene on the water but underneath its paddling like hell. Now if you don't anything about ducks......

Are you by any chance suggesting my knowledge of ducks is seriously deficient? If so, how dare you, sir! I will have you know that I am a fully paid-up member of the RSPB, and in fact, to prove my point, towards the end of last season I could be seen brandishing my binoculars at AG, as watching the pigeons in the Williams was at times more enthralling than what was going on on the pitch.

I think you will find if you read carefully what I have written in several posts on this thread that I am more in agreement with you than disagreement, but whatever: it is now 12.50 pm on matchday and high time I was in the pub for my pre-match pint. Let's see how we're feeling about all this come 5.00pm...

[Brizred]

City had their highest ever amount of season ticket holders last season and then served up drab and boring football so it's no wonder the extra 3000 didn't renew for this season. If exciting football was being played then the majority imo would of bought them this year too. You will get your hardcore of support but to increase this you need to be entertained and give value for money.

[Andrew_V1]

Funny this topic somehow foretold of todays events...utter sh*t negative tactics once again at 1 up to ruin the day...