Redhyde Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Gary Johnson is the best manager I've experienced at AG. I'm saying this first. We haven't scored 3 goals since December. We scored 3 or more goals 3 times last season. We don't score goals, we don't really create much but we are solid, workmanlike and effective. Do you think we should strike a better balance? Do you think Gary has the ability to do it? Or is it just better to play safe with the negative style that has got us and him so far? I think it affects our gates, I think it affects our performances in matches where usually the more positive team wins. There aren't many negative teams that go up or who win titles. You can be good at defending without giving up on the other side of the game. This isn't particularly about style, i think we play an acceptable if not good brand of football mixing up passing and direct play depending on who's on the ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Personally I think we're playing far better than last season. We look more dangerous while still being solid. I think once we get the new lads bedded in and have the first team fully fit, we will give out some real hammerings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdc1978 Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Personally I think we're playing far better than last season. We look more dangerous while still being solid. I think once we get the new lads bedded in and have the first team fully fit, we will give out some real hammerings. I'd go along with that also. And just because we aren't hammering teams 3s,4s and 5-0s doesn't mean GJ is being negative, I think it's just indicitive of how tight this league can be - we don't hammer teams and we don't really get hammered (1 or 2 exceptions to that since promotion!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milo1111 Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Gary Johnson is the best manager I've experienced at AG. I'm saying this first. We haven't scored 3 goals since December. We scored 3 or more goals 3 times last season. We don't score goals, we don't really create much but we are solid, workmanlike and effective. Do you think we should strike a better balance? Do you think Gary has the ability to do it? Or is it just better to play safe with the negative style that has got us and him so far? I think it affects our gates, I think it affects our performances in matches where usually the more positive team wins. There aren't many negative teams that go up or who win titles. You can be good at defending without giving up on the other side of the game. This isn't particularly about style, i think we play an acceptable if not good brand of football mixing up passing and direct play depending on who's on the ball. thats your answer really mate. GJ is a very good manager. im delighted to have him at the helm. its good to debate these things and GJ will make mistakes, and tactics are obviously extremely subjective, but ultimately we really should trust him. yes, we may not be free flowing at times, but there are very few sides that are in this league. the only sides that can produce that sort of football in such a competitive league are ones with far bigger bugets than ours eg. west brom, and even then big spending sides such as brum last year play a tight game. its just the way the championship is. its so tight and fiercely competitive that you have to earn the right to play and its bl00dy hard. we see it week in week out. newcastle have started very well but ive seen them on three occassions and i wouldnt say their brand of footy at present is exactly scintilating. last season i thought we were very predictable at times with mcindoe tucking in and its been discussed to death on here. i was a tad worried mid december as we were looking in a bad way. but that aside our football isnt too bad and once we get everyone fit this season and the loanees settle in a few more will find the back of the net im sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 We haven't scored 3 goals since December. We scored 3 or more goals 3 times last season. We don't score goals, we don't really create much but we are solid, workmanlike and effective. Do you think we should strike a better balance? Do you think Gary has the ability to do it? Or is it just better to play safe with the negative style that has got us and him so far? I think it affects our gates, I think it affects our performances in matches where usually the more positive team wins. There aren't many negative teams that go up or who win titles. You can be good at defending without giving up on the other side of the game. This isn't particularly about style, i think we play an acceptable if not good brand of football mixing up passing and direct play depending on who's on the ball. The problem with scoring goals is not about having poor strikers, its about creativity from wide and midfield. If you look at this season and the goals that City have scored so far 4 of them have been exceptional strikes from Maynard with not a tap-in in sight.That has to be a worry. For the past two seasons in the CCC its been the same but I was optimistic that with the signing of Haynes, Hartley and Clarkson that there would be more chances created. Clarkson has been out so hasn't really showed what he can do yet and Haynes got suspended and then became ill so as yet we still don't what he's capable of. Hartley created two goals for Maynard against Boro but seems to play in a deeper role. The 'new' formation of 3-5-2 was surely adopted to try and create more but hasn't really worked out yet. Maybe if Sno can hold his place and hit some form he might be able to create more for Maynard and Alvaro. City definately need some more guile and cleverness around the opposition box and with Clarkson on his way back and pushing for a start again the competition for places can only be good. With everyone fit and available City have the players to create far more chances than they have been. Lets hope as the season progresses that the team gels and Johnson gives them licence to play their natural game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrdc Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Gary Johnson is the best manager I've experienced at AG. I'm saying this first. We haven't scored 3 goals since December. We scored 3 or more goals 3 times last season. We don't score goals, we don't really create much but we are solid, workmanlike and effective. Do you think we should strike a better balance? Do you think Gary has the ability to do it? Or is it just better to play safe with the negative style that has got us and him so far? I think it affects our gates, I think it affects our performances in matches where usually the more positive team wins. There aren't many negative teams that go up or who win titles. You can be good at defending without giving up on the other side of the game. This isn't particularly about style, i think we play an acceptable if not good brand of football mixing up passing and direct play depending on who's on the ball. For me winning is what counts, I would rather win 1-0 every week than lose 5-4 and then win 5-4. The league is all about points and we need as many of them as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ashtonyate Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 For me winning is what counts, I would rather win 1-0 every week than lose 5-4 and then win 5-4. The league is all about points and we need as many of them as possible. Yes but we are not winning 1-0 every week last season we were the draw Kings. The truth is we have had a lot of players who are not CC quality to get the results we have had to be ultra defences at the back. The last season is showed by the way we played trying to hold on until the last 20 minutes then have a pop. In my opinion Johnson never moved on players from when we got promoted quick enough this could be down to our first season reaching the play off. I think Johnson is on a learning curve as well as the team, he or the assistant manager have not managed at this level before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheese Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Yes but we are not winning 1-0 every week last season we were the draw Kings. The truth is we have had a lot of players who are not CC quality to get the results we have had to be ultra defences at the back. The last season is showed by the way we played trying to hold on until the last 20 minutes then have a pop. In my opinion Johnson never moved on players from when we got promoted quick enough this could be down to our first season reaching the play off. I think Johnson is on a learning curve as well as the team, he or the assistant manager have not managed at this level before. Quite how we can have "a lot" of players not up to CC quality and yet finish 4th and 10th in successive seasons is beyond me. Care to explain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roe Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Yes but we are not winning 1-0 every week last season we were the draw Kings. The truth is we have had a lot of players who are not CC quality to get the results we have had to be ultra defences at the back. The last season is showed by the way we played trying to hold on until the last 20 minutes then have a pop. In my opinion Johnson never moved on players from when we got promoted quick enough this could be down to our first season reaching the play off. I think Johnson is on a learning curve as well as the team, he or the assistant manager have not managed at this level before. Funny enough this is his 3rd season in the Championship.. that's more than the managers of 16 of the Championship teams this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ashtonyate Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Quite how we can have "a lot" of players not up to CC quality and yet finish 4th and 10th in successive seasons is beyond me. Care to explain? Yes I will explain we played in a deference formation that's why we never scored goals when was the last time did a team reach the play off finale with a negative goal deference that why the football was boring predictable last season until all the members of the team can stand on their own ability and not be carried we will have to play tight at the back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lifelong Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Yes I will explain we played in a deference formation that's why we never scored goals when was the last time did a team reach the play off finale with a negative goal deference that why the football was boring predictable last season until all the members of the team can stand on their own ability and not be carried we will have to play tight at the back. I dont want the defence to play it anything other than "tight at the back", that is after all what they are there for. My only criticism of them would be the tendancy to keep sending the ball long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
downendcity Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Some managers build teams that play open expansive football, they are a joy to watch but also they can also flatter to decieve. Gary Johnson is not one of these managers. He is a pragmatist and sees his job to get results. To that end, his first priority has always been to make us hard to beat, and buy-and-large he has acheived that. Even in our promotion season we were never a high scoring team, and I think this was mainly due to him placing a higher priority on the midfield being strong and tight ( e.g. McIndoe tucking inside last season) and forwards tracking back to support midfield. After last season, I wonder whether GJ realised the limitations of his previous system and tactics, and also the limitations of some of his players. New signings this season and a change to 3-5-2/4-3-3 have given us much more strength in midfield, but also with Hartley and now Sno we have players who will probably influnce our attacking game much more than before. Having a player scoring regularly has also helped, although I wonder how much of this is because this seasons style of football has created more chances. It is a shame that we have suffered such a run of injury and illness so that GJ has not been able to play his first choice 11 for the last few games, and just when we were getting into our stride. When everyone is fit and well it will be intsresting to see if all the new players can combine to make us the sort of team we would all like to see, playing more incisive attacking football and being able to kill games off without the need to hang on to a single goal lead for the last 20 minutes of games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garlicbread Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Couldnt give a toss about our style of play, I'm more interested in results... We are 8th in this league without really playing well without a full strength team, that should give anyone confidence. Johnson likes to build from the back cautiously, reminds me a bit of Arsenal/George Graham......which is why the goal difference is always going to be small....but judging by 4th, 10th and 8th so far.....it's working, so chillax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 What are "negative" tactics anyway? Which is more negative, to win every game 1-0 or to win 4-3 one week and lose 4-3 the next? The former may be less exciting but it wins more points and in my book that's positive. Gary's Yeovil team was pretty exciting but he was able to assemble a team of players that had ability way above the level they were playing at (just think of how many of his Conference winning side are now playing at Championship level). Now that he's managing a Championship club that becomes much, much harder to do as the players are all much better known and the standard so much more demanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Mosquito Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Couldnt give a toss about our style of play, I'm more interested in results... We are 8th in this league without really playing well without a full strength team, that should give anyone confidence. Johnson likes to build from the back cautiously, reminds me a bit of Arsenal/George Graham......which is why the goal difference is always going to be small....but judging by 4th, 10th and 8th so far.....it's working, so chillax Excellent comment Sir. All I've seen is a year on year improvement under Gary Johnson's stewardship. What ultimately counts is league position and not how many we win by. I'd be ecstatic if all we did was win 2-1, 1-0 because if we get enough of those kind of results we'll be back in the top flight for next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ashtonyate Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Excellent comment Sir. All I've seen is a year on year improvement under Gary Johnson's stewardship. What ultimately counts is league position and not how many we win by. I'd be ecstatic if all we did was win 2-1, 1-0 because if we get enough of those kind of results we'll be back in the top flight for next season. Well I go to games to be entertained I know ever game can't be great but since Johnson has been manager in general the football is boring yes we get the results although last season the football was poor and the results were not fantastict. I am sure that's why we lost some of the season ticket holders I was on the verge of not bothering after a season of poor football but was persuaded to renew. I am waiting to see how we play when everybody is fit again but if he reverts to any system like last year then I will not renew next year. I heard someone talk about George Graham's Arsenal team of the 70s they nearly killed of the game with ultra defensive football. Football should be fun and entertaining not just a chore to go through every other Saturday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fodbarmyarmy Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 I think it will improve when Riberio & Blackman start to replace Orr & McAlister They are good solid defensive wise but neither Bradders or Mac (any more) are gifted with pace or ability to take opposition fullbacks on and get to byeline (even if Bradders did we all know that 9/10 crosses are cack) Once we have the youth and ability in the FB positions we will create more but until then and without wingers we are & will be very narrow in our play and not create much apart from long passing ~(note: not long ball hoof) - for our only pace (the strikers) to latch onto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Yes but we are not winning 1-0 every week last season we were the draw Kings. The truth is we have had a lot of players who are not CC quality to get the results we have had to be ultra defences at the back. The last season is showed by the way we played trying to hold on until the last 20 minutes then have a pop. In my opinion Johnson never moved on players from when we got promoted quick enough this could be down to our first season reaching the play off. I think Johnson is on a learning curve as well as the team, he or the assistant manager have not managed at this level before. Namely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garlicbread Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Well I go to games to be entertained I know ever game can't be great but since Johnson has been manager in general the football is boring yes we get the results although last season the football was poor and the results were not fantastict. I am sure that's why we lost some of the season ticket holders I was on the verge of not bothering after a season of poor football but was persuaded to renew. I am waiting to see how we play when everybody is fit again but if he reverts to any system like last year then I will not renew next year. I heard someone talk about George Graham's Arsenal team of the 70s they nearly killed of the game with ultra defensive football. Football should be fun and entertaining not just a chore to go through every other Saturday So if we win 1-0 in a boring encounter, you wouldnt be happy? Winning is absolutely everything, entertainment is secondary. Perhaps the people who chose not to renew season cards are those who only started coming after the play off final and expected us to walk the league....in other words fickle. I dont know a single long term attendee who didnt renew his ticket because of the entrtainment standard of Johnsons football...if this were true, then we should have had full houses under Danny Wilson. I was refering to George Grahams team of the 80s/90s...and after the titles they won, I can guarentee you that not one supporter would have been dissapointed in the team...like you shouldnt be...mainstays in the CCC with a chance for promotion...try and remember that even you would have killed for that before promotion from L1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbored Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Couldnt give a toss about our style of play, I'm more interested in results... We are 8th in this league without really playing well without a full strength team, that should give anyone confidence. Johnson likes to build from the back cautiously, reminds me a bit of Arsenal/George Graham......which is why the goal difference is always going to be small....but judging by 4th, 10th and 8th so far.....it's working, so chillax Arsenal under George Graham had a quality and virtually watertight defence who played the offside better than anyone and thats why they often won 1-0 and got the label of 'Boring ,boring, Arsenal. The same can't be said for City's defence. Torn apart by Cardiff already this season and City haven't looked solid defensively for a long time. Hanging on to 1-0 leads is dangerous. Look how many times City conceded late equalisers at AG last season. Had City been able to get two or even three ahead then the opposition nicking a late goal wouldn't have been so costly. If like Graham's Arsenal you have international defenders who have played together for years then hanging on to a 1-0 lead is ok but the fact is City don't have that quality. Even more reason to push on and try to kill games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazred Posted September 17, 2009 Report Share Posted September 17, 2009 Bottom line is that it is a results business and thats how all managers are assessed. If we were top of the league playing route 1 football and got promotion to the Prem, i doubt anyone on here would be that bothered, result first, performance second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ashtonyate Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 Namely? Johnson Williams Noble in midfield and its must remembered Skuse was a bit player until after xmas last year you have Mcallister who I think is not comfortable at full back in this league.Plus we had a scottish C Half on loan the h back who came from S****horpe who was not up to CC standard then Trundle Styvars all these players done a job but if you played them in any other than a defenceive formation we would get hammered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 Johnson Williams Noble in midfield and its must remembered Skuse was a bit player until after xmas last year you have Mcallister who I think is not comfortable at full back in this league.Plus we had a scottish C Half on loan the h back who came from S****horpe who was not up to CC standard then Trundle Styvars all these players done a job but if you played them in any other than a defenceive formation we would get hammered So what you're saying is that when we were in League One and then newly promoted to the Championship we had some players who weren't Championship standard? Even if that hadn't largely been proven wrong by the fact we finished 4th it seems somewhat ridiculous to expect the team to be full of Championship players when it's only just been promoted. Did you listen to the Pete Johnson interview last week? He explained how difficult it was to attract top Championship players when the club is outside the top 6. How hard do you think it must be to attract that level of player when the club is in League One? I'd say it was virtually impossible unless vast amounts of money are thrown at the problem. Out of the teams promoted alongside/since City, who do you think has a better squad? S****horpe? Blackpool? Forest? Leicester? Swansea? Doncaster? Peterborough? I would say City have the best squad of all those teams by some distance and only Leicester are currently above us, on goal difference alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ashtonyate Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 So what you're saying is that when we were in League One and then newly promoted to the Championship we had some players who weren't Championship standard? Even if that hadn't largely been proven wrong by the fact we finished 4th it seems somewhat ridiculous to expect the team to be full of Championship players when it's only just been promoted. Did you listen to the Pete Johnson interview last week? He explained how difficult it was to attract top Championship players when the club is outside the top 6. How hard do you think it must be to attract that level of player when the club is in League One? I'd say it was virtually impossible unless vast amounts of money are thrown at the problem. Out of the teams promoted alongside/since City, who do you think has a better squad? S****horpe? Blackpool? Forest? Leicester? Swansea? Doncaster? Peterborough? I would say City have the best squad of all those teams by some distance and only Leicester are currently above us, on goal difference alone. Its OK being in Leeds telling me how good our position is but in reality if you watch them all the time you would soon get fed up with the tactics the manager employed last season. The truth is Johnson never turned over enough players in the first two seasons for what ever reason. So how come we have signed players this season I don't think the Clubs profile is any higher now than last season how come we have signed players on a year long loan yet last season Johnson diden't think we should they make it up as they go along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCFC_Dan Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 Its OK being in Leeds telling me how good our position is but in reality if you watch them all the time you would soon get fed up with the tactics the manager employed last season. The truth is Johnson never turned over enough players in the first two seasons for what ever reason. So how come we have signed players this season I don't think the Clubs profile is any higher now than last season how come we have signed players on a year long loan yet last season Johnson diden't think we should they make it up as they go along. Of course I'd love to see the team smashing 5 goals week in week out, but I know that's simply not possible. The Championship is a tough, tough league and the manager is employing tactics to win as many points as possible. The club's profile is higher than it was last season. How could it not be? It's been in the Championship for another season and proved that the success of the first season was no flash in the pan by securing another top half finish. The success of the team and the reputation of the manager allow better players to be signed. But it takes time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barrs Court Red Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edson Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 Its OK being in Leeds telling me how good our position is but in reality if you watch them all the time you would soon get fed up with the tactics the manager employed last season. The truth is Johnson never turned over enough players in the first two seasons for what ever reason. So how come we have signed players this season I don't think the Clubs profile is any higher now than last season how come we have signed players on a year long loan yet last season Johnson diden't think we should they make it up as they go along. Are you kidding? We've now been established as a top 10 Championship side for two years and were in the top six when the Sno and Saborio signed for us. I don't think it's Johnson who makes it up as he goes along, frankly. Try looking a bit closer to home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ashtonyate Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 Any risk of that last sentence translated into English? Your posts are giving me a headache and too be honest you moan about EVERYTHING that the club does. You moan about a new ground costing money (Well that's the impression I get) yet I could guarantee that if the club weren't spending on infrastructure, you'd be moaning they aren't thinking long term. Seriously, is there ANYTHING you're happy with or wouldn't do differently? I don't moan about every thing the Club does I moan about every thing the club does wrong. Just one example how the hell could you renew Sprouls contract he is just not up to CC standard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Obi Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 Since GJ joined BCFC his negative tactics seem to of had a v positive effect on our football club. I guess there are some that would rather be winning 3-0 every week back in div 1. (theatrical sighhhhh!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ashtonyate Posted September 18, 2009 Report Share Posted September 18, 2009 Are you kidding? We've now been established as a top 10 Championship side for two years and were in the top six when the Sno and Saborio signed for us. I don't think it's Johnson who makes it up as he goes along, frankly. Try looking a bit closer to home. What you make it up as you go along Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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