andy g Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Forget Celtic and Rangers joining the English league, these proposals for a two tier Premier League by Phil Gartside are about one thing - pulling up the drawbridge. If the Bolton chairman gets his way, it will mean the end of automatic promotion from the championship to the premier league and that will be disasterous for all the clubs that are left behind (but very convenient for small Premier League clubs in the north west...) Is anyone else a bit surprised that the football league isn't protesting about this ? I would have thought clubs like our own would be pretty worried about the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snufflelufagus Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 I think they have amended the proposals to include relegation and promotion. For me I think it would be terrible and let alone bad for the english game, then think what would happen in Scotland. Im afraid its all about money money money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanhamreds Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanhamreds Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 I think they have amended the proposals to include relegation and promotion. For me I think it would be terrible and let alone bad for the english game, then think what would happen in Scotland. Im afraid its all about money money money. If the old firm came to England (over my dead body) the rest of Scotish football would suffer. also what does this mean for the home nations, what would FIFA think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riaz Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 The idea of a two tier prem? to bridge the financial gap? good idea. No promotion/relegation???!! no ******* way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chivs Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 The Premier Greed is the absolutely worst thing that has happened to English football. They are even handed though. They now want to extend that misery to Scottish football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bully Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Forget Celtic and Rangers joining the English league, these proposals for a two tier Premier League by Phil Gartside are about one thing - pulling up the drawbridge. If the Bolton chairman gets his way, it will mean the end of automatic promotion from the championship to the premier league and that will be disasterous for all the clubs that are left behind (but very convenient for small Premier League clubs in the north west...) Is anyone else a bit surprised that the football league isn't protesting about this ? I would have thought clubs like our own would be pretty worried about the idea. Scudamore said on tv a week or so ago that he didn't want any changes and specifically that Celtic and Rangers should play in Scotland. Bad enough the Welsh clubs in our leagues but this would compound it - what possible benefit would it provide English football?? Cue Blatter calling for a UK team and who could blame him.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Mat Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 The whole thing stinks of the 'big clubs' trying to edge out the smaller ones and make promotion much more difficult - and a guaranteed place amongst the elite becoming a permanent thing. The plan is for two divisions of 18 and 20 - a reduction of six on what we have now. Imagine losing the eight teams at the bottom of this division (or more probably, the eight 'smallest' teams in this division) and adding Rangers and Celtic. For a start, Scottish football would no doubt suffer. Initially it would add competition to start with, but would soon settle down into the big three or four clubs winning everything - much like it is now. But without the huge crowds and money that the two Glasgow clubs bring. And for a club like Bolton - who are one of the smaller Permier League teams and who are more likely to be threatened with relegation should the division be reduced to 18 and with Rangers and Celtic thrown in - to be suggesting it, is bizarre! The words 'turkeys', 'Christmas' and 'voting' spring to mind... It would make it even more difficult for teams such as us, Stoke, Hull, Wigan (when they were small), Burnley, Fulham, Reading, etc, to get promoted and almost impossible for us to stay there and compete with the spending power of the top 18 huge teams, such as Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Everton, Tottenham, Aston Villa, Man City, Rangers, Celtic, Newcastle United, etc. I can't see any of those being relegated! (Well, ok, maybe one joke club relegation...) Plus, the plans say they're even considering accepting an "Irish franchise". Now anything with the word 'franchise' in should send shivers down the spine of any football fan! Why the hell would we want Irish teams to join an English (or UK) league, for a start? And does anyone remember the original Wimbledon plans to move their 'franchise' to Dublin?! Moving it as far as Milton Keynes was bad enough... I appreciate football has always developed, with new competitions and tournaments coming along over the years. But there are national football pyramid structures for a reason; they are national. Clubs have the chance to play one another in European tournaments, and we have international football tournaments already - national teams play one another at the World Cup and European Championship. If we start almagamting divisions now, where does it end? Soon, there'd be a European league then a world league. I don't care about European football very much anymore as it is - I'd care even less then. I'm not anti- change, but this is change for the sake of it - the sake being money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eskay Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Heard an interesting debate on the radio last night. Most of the concerns about the Scots joining were about sectarian violence and how much hatred the Scotts have for us. One commentator said it has the potential to re-ignite a dark side of English footy. Leave them where they belong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CiderHider Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 This will never happen, especially Jock clubs playing in our Country. It will be opposed by most if not all of the decision makers and laughed off. If by some miracle it does happen, (and i imagine for it to happen there would have been a lot of crack smoked) I would give up on football all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22A Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 So Rangers & Celtic move to the English Premier League. They then fail to qualify for Europe and all the money that brings due to so many better teams than them in the Prem. Before long they'd want to go back to Scotland. When that League of Wales set up some years ago the Welsh FA asked Cardiff, Swansea, Newport & Wrexham to resign from the Football League and play in the Welsh League. The clubs didn't specifically because of more money to be made in the English league. As for no promotion / relegation, the Daily Mail pointed out Bolton themselves moved from Div 4 in 1988 to the Prem just 7 years later. Bolton now wish to prevent any other club doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanhamreds Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Ian M Posted November 11, 2009 Admin Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 The plan is for two divisions of 18 and 20 - a reduction of six on what we have now. Imagine losing the eight teams at the bottom of this division (or more probably, the eight 'smallest' teams in this division) and adding Rangers and Celtic. It's worse than that, they plan to do it by invitation rather than League placing so you can add Leeds, Charlton, Southampton, Norwich & possibly even Notts County to the invite list & lose 12 or 13 of the smallest Championship clubs. On current attendances that would be us although given our stadium approval and possible inclusion in a WC bid we may actually sneak an invite. Justice for 3(?) years of top half Championship finishes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanhamreds Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 It's worse than that, they plan to do it by invitation rather than League placing so you can add Leeds, Charlton, Southampton, Norwich & possibly even Notts County to the invite list & lose 12 or 13 of the smallest Championship clubs. On current attendances that would be us although given our stadium approval and possible inclusion in a WC bid we may actually sneak an invite. Justice for 3(?) years of top half Championship finishes? Bolton don't exactly get massive crowds either, about 22k for most games if my memory is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Mat Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 It's worse than that, they plan to do it by invitation rather than League placing so you can add Leeds, Charlton, Southampton, Norwich & possibly even Notts County to the invite list & lose 12 or 13 of the smallest Championship clubs. On current attendances that would be us although given our stadium approval and possible inclusion in a WC bid we may actually sneak an invite. Justice for 3(?) years of top half Championship finishes? Any 'competition' that gets to pick and choose who takes part is no competition. It simply becomes an exhibition event, as everyone is not given a level footing to begin with. Yes, I understand crowd sizes and investors alter the footing as well, but at least these aspects don't change the rules. As you say it would just be the 'biggest' clubs invited and Leeds, Charlton and Norwich certainly fit that bracket. Even if the invitation was ruled out to start with, once these big clubs got up there, you could see the drawbridge pulled up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BASSO Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 This idea is laughable and the fact that its being lead by the chairman of Bolton says it all. Also if he has got Bolton £62M in debt then I seriously doubt he cares about the club or football in general, he probably only wants to keep paying himself a premier league salary for as long as possible, someone needs to tell the greedy bastard to get out of football and to stop coming up with shit proposals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bris Red Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 It would never happen IMO. How can you justify how ''big'' a club is and then seperate clubs up in to higher or lower divisions on the basis of this. What would be the point of certain clubs exsisting if they cant even reach the top flight beacuse some man in a suit from the FA says they are to ''small', its utter nonsense and im suprised people actually think it will go ahead. As for the Scots coming down south, how many times have we heard this crap? They are quite happy ploding along each year getting in the Champions Legaue or Europa league. And even if they did want to leave there comfort zone what division would they start in, the Confrence North? Just beacause they have a big stadium/fanbase it dosnt give them anymore of a right then teams like Chesterfield Bury etc to be in the top flight. It would be a nightmare to arrange and it would leave certain Clubs (us included) fuming. Its a ridiculous suggestion and im baffled that the of all the clubs the chairman of BOLTON! has come up with it?! Have they suddendly forgotten there lower league roots... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screech Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 It will never happen. How on earth would they agree on the criteria for starters. They may agree to filter down some more money through the leagues but even that is unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red_Mat Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 This idea is laughable and the fact that its being lead by the chairman of Bolton says it all. Also if he has got Bolton £62M in debt then I seriously doubt he cares about the club or football in general, he probably only wants to keep paying himself a premier league salary for as long as possible, someone needs to tell the greedy bastard to get out of football and to stop coming up with shit proposals. Sadly, Phil Gartside is already one of the most powerful men in the game...! He's an FA board member for a start. And so he may have a s*** club, but he's quite important. Unbelievable that people like this can control our game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Red Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 If you're having a division with the top 18 teams in it based on size, prestige etc, then Bolton wouldn't be in it. The behaviour of Celtic fans during the minutes silence this weekend proves why they and their equally backward neighbours shouldn't be allowed anywhere near such a league as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibor Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Two tier Premier league is fantastic provided the TV money scales at a linear rate not an exponential one and there continues to be at least 3 up 3 down across all divisions. It would solve the parachute/boomerang problem and we could regionalise the bottom two divisions. That isn't the intention of the proposal though so Gartside needs to just live with the fact that Bolton are not going to punch above their weight forever and do some decent financial planning with that in mind. It would make me chuckle if they went down after harping on about this for so long. The Scots can **** off and we should get rid of the Welsh whilst we're at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ashtonyate Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 I think the best thing for football would be a Europa league for the very top teams ie Chelsky ManU Arsenal and the top teams in Europa Or even the World. To many team are trying to keep up with them and it is crippling them better we have a strong English league living with in its means than this mad house we have now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballwinningcentrehalf Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Wow, amazing and truly shocking (!) how fans of English clubs are suddenly perfect when the Old Firm discussion comes around. I've been to a load of games involving Celtic against English teams over the years and have pretty much always faced abuse (including sectarian) from English supporters. Celtic's record for away supporters in Europe has been fantastic over the years. The incident on the weekend was unfortunate, but it was a tiny percentage of the 'support' with an agenda that were outside the stadium. It would be like saying Bristol City should never be allowed to host a world cup game because a few idiots caused trouble in Nottingham last season. As a Celtic fan I want it to happen because it will open an opportunity to sign a better standard of player. I can fully understand City fans not wanting it to happen as it's another couple of big clubs in the way of progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanhamreds Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 The Scots need us, WE DO NOT NEED THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DanC Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 The Scots need us, WE DO NOT NEED THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Maybe so but I don't know about you but I would love to wake up on a Saturday morning and think Celtic or Rangers away today. How great as a fan would that be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22A Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 1970 a fiction book was published and was laughed at by many in the game. The final chapter had the Chairmen of clubs such as Man U, Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs etc, getting together and plotting to form their own league away from the riff raff as fans and TV only want to watch them. In real life however until the late 80s all 92 league club's gate receipts were split three ways; 75% to the home team, 15% to the visitors to help cover travel fees and to recognise they brought some of the spectators that day and the final 10% went into a League kitty. At the end of the season that kitty was split into 92 EQUAL portions and shared throughout the League. At that time the clubs in the upper two divisions had 1 vote each whilst the 48 teams in the lower two divisions had 4 votes between them. Under the Companies Act they demanded a vote each. The result was (to reflect League standing) Div 4 clubs 1 vote each. Div 3 clubs 3 votes each, Div 2 clubs 6 votes each whilst those in Div 1 would have 12 votes each. The 70 clubs outside Div 1 actually went along with this even though it meant the 22 top teams (if they stuck together) could outvote the other 70 teams. Having won this power, the top clubs then voted through that from then on each club keeps 100% of it's own gate receipts. Since the Prem is all about money, yes they will eventually form their own competition with inclusion by invite only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanhamreds Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Maybe so but I don't know about you but I would love to wake up on a Saturday morning and think Celtic or Rangers away today. How great as a fan would that be? i would be but I'm not prepared to accept them in any English league, what about having the old firm in the FA cup? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bigcheese Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Mad idea, need to keep the same principles as the fa cup - any club can "do it" rather than some closed shop league. What they really need to consider sorting out is the debt and spending in the Premier League rather than faffing around. Would love City to go up but in a lot of ways I love the way the Championship works.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chappers Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 I can't really see any benefits. Even Celtic & Rangers will hardly mean Sky pay much more, so TV money gets spread amongst fewer teams. We already have a good 'Premier 2', it's called the Championship, and it is a real football competition and totally unpredictable, just like it should be. If the vast amount of recent Sky money means heaps up Clubs in the sh*t financially, how will a few extra millions help? A*seholes like Gartside will just p*ss it against the wall paying even more money to mediocre players. If there is promotion/ relegation to/ from the League, surely that gap will be even bigger, so if Bolton go down, they will be in an even bigger mess, and probably without the parachute. And having 'entry criteria' is no barrier, about the only Championship Club lacking facilities is Scunny, much of Div1 is OK, and there's Notts and Bradford in Div 2 that spring to mind. Well, and Darlington! As for an 'Irish Franchise' - It just convinces me that the man is a nutcase and needs locking up. But what a cracking away trip. Will Ryanair charge extra for replica shirts, scarves, singing etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
semblar Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Given the general feeling - which I broadly share, I wanted to ask people a hypothetical question: Let's say that SL has been guaranteed entry if we vote for the proposal - no question, 100% legally binding. Let's also say that the proposal went to a vote of all Premier League and championship clubs and the odds were about 50/50 on it passing. Would you want SL to vote for the proposal to ensure we were in the breakaway group if it went ahead. Or would you want him to vote against on principle, but risk not being involved it it got through anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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