Something Has To Change

[Robbored]

When the team was read out my heart sank and that negtaive feeling just came over me. Lee Johnson back in the starting 11 again. I just knew that City would struggle and thats exactly what happened.

The Blades were not that good and today was a game played out by two very average teams both short on confidence. Mistakes and dodgy refereeing decisions were always likely to play a major part in the outcome.

City were dire especially in the first half with Sno out of position along with Skuse. Fontaine should have started at right back with Skuse back in his best position in midfiled, but no LJ gets to start.

No cutting edge the opposition keeper barely making a save, Maynard getting no service of any note. Pedestrian play yet again and yet it was Sheffield who were done for time wasting. Johnson takes off City most effective player in Skuse and leaves on the most ineffective player in Lee Johnson.

I wonder what Johnson's excuse will be today? It was the players fault last week and no doubt it will theirs again today.

Today highlighted that A) The City players are simply not enough, or B) Johnson isn't getting the best out of what many fans feel is the best squad seen at AG for decades. Imo its the latter and if City continue to play with four central midfielders across the park I can't see anything changing. Mid table at best I reckon.

[WesM]

so you criticise skuse being played out of positiom and then declare fontaine should play at right-back?

[Nibor]

Fontaine at right back would be mental.

Fontaine should have been in a centre back.

Personally I'd have played Sno central ahead of LJ but it wasn't the worst selection.

That was reserved for the idiocy of picking McCombe.

[Robbored]

so you criticise skuse being played out of positiom and then declare fontaine should play at right-back?

Yes - because Skuse a versatile player and is a very capable midfielder as we've seen. Fontaine on the other hand is an out and out defender who has played at full back before.

[Swansea_Red]

When the team was read out my heart sank and that negtaive feeling just came over me. Lee Johnson back in the starting 11 again. I just knew that City would struggle and thats exactly what happened.

The Blades were not that good and today was a game played out by two very average teams both short on confidence. Mistakes and dodgy refereeing decisions were always likely to play a major part in the outcome.

City were dire especially in the first half with Sno out of position along with Skuse. Fontaine should have started at right back with Skuse back in his best position in midfiled, but no LJ gets to start.

No cutting edge the opposition keeper barely making a save, Maynard getting no service of any note. Pedestrian play yet again and yet it was Sheffield who were done for time wasting. Johnson takes off City most effective player in Skuse and leaves on the most ineffective player in Lee Johnson.

I wonder what Johnson's excuse will be today? It was the players fault last week and no doubt it will theirs again today.

Today highlighted that A) The City players are simply not enough, or B) Johnson isn't getting the best out of what many fans feel is the best squad seen at AG for decades. Imo its the latter and if City continue to play with four central midfielders across the park I can't see anything changing. Mid table at best I reckon.

Granted I wasn't there but sounded ok on the radio to me. Silly defensive errors again cost us.

The bit about Ikeme not having to make a save sounds odd to me. It sounded like we created some good chances, that he saved and that he had a good game.

As for the whole Skuse at right back thing to accommodate LJ. Sounded like LJ was involved quite a bit today, in a positive sense. And I'd have Skuse at right back over Fonts. I don't like the fact he has to play there though, he is far more affective in central midfield. Which leads on to people playing out of position (which gets my goat) and the unbalanced nature of our squad (which also gets my goat).

Reading that back I'm not sure what I've written makes sense but what the hell.....

[Nibor]

Yes - because Skuse a versatile player and is a very capable midfielder as we've seen. Fontaine on the other hand is an out and out defender who has played at full back before.

Fontaine is heavily left footed and playing him right back would be utterly stupid.

[Guest]

When the team was read out my heart sank and that negtaive feeling just came over me. Lee Johnson back in the starting 11 again. I just knew that City would struggle and thats exactly what happened.

The Blades were not that good and today was a game played out by two very average teams both short on confidence. Mistakes and dodgy refereeing decisions were always likely to play a major part in the outcome.

City were dire especially in the first half with Sno out of position along with Skuse. Fontaine should have started at right back with Skuse back in his best position in midfiled, but no LJ gets to start.

No cutting edge the opposition keeper barely making a save, Maynard getting no service of any note. Pedestrian play yet again and yet it was Sheffield who were done for time wasting. Johnson takes off City most effective player in Skuse and leaves on the most ineffective player in Lee Johnson.

I wonder what Johnson's excuse will be today? It was the players fault last week and no doubt it will theirs again today.

Today highlighted that A) The City players are simply not enough, or B) Johnson isn't getting the best out of what many fans feel is the best squad seen at AG for decades. Imo its the latter and if City continue to play with four central midfielders across the park I can't see anything changing. Mid table at best I reckon.

The guy who picked the team should really admit he done wrong and made a mistake;boom,boom, like we all make mistakes;

[Tunley Legend]

Ikeme saved one on ones in a fifteen minute spell that Johnson, Maynard and Haynes should have buried to be fair. The rest of the time he was fairly redundant save for a couple of crosses that he flapped at and made a meal of. But our play is still seriously lacking width and this is an issue that GJ has to address sooner rather than later.

[Abraham Romanovich]

Oh, now this has legs. I'm off to open some biscuits.

[Robbored]

Fontaine is heavily left footed and playing him right back would be utterly stupid.

Since when does a player need to be right footed to play on the right?

That said three at the back would have been an option with Sproule wide right. Point being Johnson got the team selection and tactics wrong.

[Nibor]

Since when does a player need to be right footed to play on the right?

As a full back? Since the position has existed really.

It's a piece of piss to beat a wrong footed full back and usually means conceding penalties and free kicks for fun.

It's a bloody stupid idea.

[NifflerNomad]

same old thread

lee johnson had a okay game today McCoombe on the otherhand....oh dear

as for LF playing right back

[Swansea_Red]

Ikeme saved one on ones in a fifteen minute spell that Johnson, Maynard and Haynes should have buried to be fair. The rest of the time he was fairly redundant save for a couple of crosses that he flapped at and made a meal of. But our play is still seriously lacking width and this is an issue that GJ has to address sooner rather than later.

Sounds like a fair assessment! A little more then 'hardly a save to make'. Well, in my opinion anyway, save me looking like a mug.

[BITW]

I have defended boom in the past, but no more. Shocking.

[Mr Popodopolous]

A general question on Fontaine, why is he always on the bench? Is he not a better option than McCombe??

[WesM]

A general question on Fontaine, why is he always on the bench? Is he not a better option than McCombe??

So is Nyatanga, but Fonts isnt match fit I would say. One question I would ask is why has Ribs been allowed to go out to Stockport on loan with Bradley injured?

He's a welsh international, if he isn't good enough to cover Brad then move him on, it's not like there's much interest in him!

[Swansea_Red]

A general question on Fontaine, why is he always on the bench? Is he not a better option than McCombe??

Putting myself in Gary's shoes, I'd say Fontaine has recently come back from injury and McCoombe was there to deal with the big man.

Putting myself in my shoes, I would agree that Fonts is a better option than McCoombe, but would not have played him today due to the injury thing. I would have stuck with Nyatanga and Carey if we we're going with 4 at the back.

[LocoPal]

Unfortunately for McCombe it was his job to man-mark Henderson whenever we were not in possession and that player scores a hat-trick.

Oh dear

[boadle]

As a full back? Since the position has existed really.

It's a piece of piss to beat a wrong footed full back and usually means conceding penalties and free kicks for fun.

It's a bloody stupid idea.

He's right.

I used to be a good left back but a poor right back, as I am left footed. It's not only the tackling thing, but the passing as well. If you want to play the ball up the line and are forced to use your wrong foot, as a fullback, the ball is likely to go out of play.

[petehinton]

what p*ssed me off the most, we spend, what must've been around, 1mil for Nyatanga - an experienced INTERNATIONAL centre back...yet that donkey Mccombe starts infront of him? We've seen it in thee last few months that he's not good enough, so why doesn't GJ realise?

He was too negative today, as soon as we went 2-1 up, i was expecting either Sproule, Clarkson or Saborio to come on, maybe even Williams, to add a bit more attacking force/flair to the game; but no, 20mins later, a sub is made, we had chances to pull back to 2-2 and maybe even go on to win the game

[Taz]

Fontaine at right back? And some people criticize GJ for playing people out of position! Fontaine is either in the centre or left back. I may be wrong but I dont think hes ever played RB? Thats like saying play Gerkin up front on his own....

[Bangkok Red]

He's right.

I used to be a good left back but a poor right back, as I am left footed. It's not only the tackling thing, but the passing as well. If you want to play the ball up the line and are forced to use your wrong foot, as a fullback, the ball is likely to go out of play.

But you weren't a professional footballer, right?

Any self respecting pro footballer should be comfortable with either foot..and if not you really have to wonder what the hell they're doing in training all day long.

[Carey 6]

When the team was read out my heart sank and that negtaive feeling just came over me. Lee Johnson back in the starting 11 again. I just knew that City would struggle and thats exactly what happened.

The Blades were not that good and today was a game played out by two very average teams both short on confidence. Mistakes and dodgy refereeing decisions were always likely to play a major part in the outcome.

City were dire especially in the first half with Sno out of position along with Skuse. Fontaine should have started at right back with Skuse back in his best position in midfiled, but no LJ gets to start.

No cutting edge the opposition keeper barely making a save, Maynard getting no service of any note. Pedestrian play yet again and yet it was Sheffield who were done for time wasting. Johnson takes off City most effective player in Skuse and leaves on the most ineffective player in Lee Johnson.

I wonder what Johnson's excuse will be today? It was the players fault last week and no doubt it will theirs again today.

Today highlighted that A) The City players are simply not enough, or B) Johnson isn't getting the best out of what many fans feel is the best squad seen at AG for decades. Imo its the latter and if City continue to play with four central midfielders across the park I can't see anything changing. Mid table at best I reckon.

I'm not a huge fan of LJ but today i thought he was better than quite a few of our players, not saying he was good but still better than elliot and sno IMO

[nebristolred]

what p*ssed me off the most, we spend, what must've been around, 1mil for Nyatanga - an experienced INTERNATIONAL centre back...yet that donkey Mccombe starts infront of him? We've seen it in thee last few months that he's not good enough, so why doesn't GJ realise?

He was too negative today, as soon as we went 2-1 up, i was expecting either Sproule, Clarkson or Saborio to come on, maybe even Williams, to add a bit more attacking force/flair to the game; but no, 20mins later, a sub is made, we had chances to pull back to 2-2 and maybe even go on to win the game

£1m for Nyatanga? 500k in my opinion.

[SJC]

First of all, what exactly would you advocate we change?

The obvious answer having read your post is that Lee Johnson be dropped, however the fact that that statement is the post title to me, perhaps incorrectly, suggests you are thinking of other things bar one players exclusion.

I wasnt actually there but have spoken to someone who was, he informs me that we played some of the best football he's seen this season, but unfortunately we played all of our worst too - if this is a fair summation ill leave you to decide. Let's not pull any punches here today was massively disappointing, to lose in that manner is unthinkable and no doubt passions will be running high as fans vent their frustrations at all possible avenues. But let's take a breath.

If we accept that West Brom are, quite simply, a much better side than us, then let us write off last week as just one of those things. I was at the Hawthorns and despite an encouraging first half display our defending was non-existent at time, it wasnt a pleasant day but, again quite simply, honestly and bluntly, they're very good and will most likely be promoted automatically.

Erasing, or perhaps more aptly excusing, last Saturdays result the undoubted, frantic, panic button pressing that will consume this forum for the next couple of days is wildly uncalled for. Indeed even if we account for a 4-1 defeat the previous week, regardless of opposition, making forthright statements such as 'Something Has To Change' is beyond rash. The phrase 'Something has to change' is one that I would use if it was clear, or becoming clear, that we were entwined in such a downward spiral that we were in danger of not recovering. The phrase 'something has to change' is one I would use after a 7-1 defeat away at a rival which saw us further embedded at the foot of the table. It certainly is not a phrase I would use or deem appropriate for a team having lost, if we include the W.B.A result, back to back games against teams who have flirted between the Premier League and Championship while we were only dreaming of reaching the latter.

Lee Johnson is a solid, consistent, Championship performer. He has proved he can compete at this level as well as inescapably illustrating that a team in which he prominently features, whilst playing in a prominent position, can have great success. I am truly delighted that we have a player of his quality considered a 'squad player' because, forgetting the rubbish which is frequently spouted in this forum, that is what he is. He isnt first choice, he's not second or third choice and, if everyone is fit he has strong competition to be fourth choice. He's no Paul Hartley, he's not as tenacious as Elliott or Skuse, he lacks the pedigree of Sno or the creativity of Williams. But he is a proven, solid, Championship performer and the sooner people cease to vent their fury at defeats or last minute losses in his direction the better.

The decision to play McCombe is clearly based in logic but perhaps founded in hope rather than reality. As the middle of a back three I have no problem and believe he has a great role to play, however as one of two centre backs, at this level, he lacks the ball control and distribution to make consistent contributions. Today he was designated, one presumes, with the sole purpose of containing a striker with aerial threat. Through whatever method that striker scored a hat trick and with it, you would hope, so went McCombe's playing time in a flat back four.

Passion is a wonderful thing but it can be incredibly destructive. Henderson completing his hat trick with virtually the last kick of the game today is the difference between you posting 'Fantastic fight back but . . . . ' and 'Something Has To Change.' Margins are fine, as long as we can accept that simple three word phrase, as long as we understand that today we were within a whisker of, abject or outstanding performance regardless, securing a thrilling comeback then there's no problem. Trouble arises when we know that margins are fine however we chose to ignore that knowledge, and that is the crime that far too many people on this forum all too often commit.

In answer to your original statement, no, something does not have to change. We are progressing as a football club and have a calibre of player within the squad now that I have not seen in my lifetime. I absolutely agree, playing a flat four central midfielders is madness and a recipe for disaster. I think I, amongst others, acknowledged before the season started that 'plan A' better work because there doesnt seem to be a 'plan B.' It's no good selling your wide men if you know there's a possibility you will revert to a formation that requires them. That has been Johnson's crime so far this season, not replacing McIndoe. Clearly Blackman may have been signed with that intention but even if that were the case replacing {another} proven Championship performer with a promising yet untested youth player is far from ideal. Obviously Blackman didnt work out and we are now left with, pardon the pun, our wings firmly clipped. This has not gone unnoticed but should, if we're honest, have been noticed at a time when we in a position to act on it - clearly the Blackman factor could semi-rectify Johnson here.

Let's just calm down, let the anger subside, prevent ourselves from seeking unnecessary scapegoats and, whilst by all means discussing what needs to be put right, ensure we do not overreact to back to back losses versus {in recent history} much more successful and prominent clubs than ourselves.

Mid table at best I reckon.

And just one final note, there has not been many occasions in this clubs modern history when midtable of the Championship could be uttered so scornfully.

[Nibor]

But you weren't a professional footballer, right?

Any self respecting pro footballer should be comfortable with either foot..and if not you really have to wonder what the hell they're doing in training all day long.

It's a nice idea but it isn't true at all, there are plenty of one footed pros at the very top of the game.

[Mr Popodopolous]

Putting myself in Gary's shoes, I'd say Fontaine has recently come back from injury and McCoombe was there to deal with the big man.

Putting myself in my shoes, I would agree that Fonts is a better option than McCoombe, but would not have played him today due to the injury thing. I would have stuck with Nyatanga and Carey if we we're going with 4 at the back.

Thanks for clarification- Fontaine has been a big miss imo. Also on general selection issues, Skuse at right back- not sure why he loaned out Riberio given that our only other natural right back is out, and Sno should surely play in his correct position, in the middle.

Our current form though, with one or two key defenders out in the form of Orr and Fontaine, perhaps shows up a lack of depth at the back imo.

[lager loud]

I'm no fan of LJ, but I thought he had a decent enough game today, and he wasn't the cause of the poor performance. I do think we're missing Cole Skuse in the centre, though.

Along with the defensive lapses (and if the guy McCombe is there to keep quiet gets a hat trick, you have to say that strategy didn't work!) I'd look at the movement of attacking players when we're going forward. Many, many times today one of our defenders or midfielders got the ball around the half way line, looked up, and saw three or four team mates ahead, all standing still. It's very hard to open teams up like that.

I think Sheff U are a pretty poor team, based on today's performance. We managed to get a good number of shots on target, and had enough one on ones with the keeper to have won the game, but I think that was down to poor opposition more than good play ourselves. That was a very poor showing all round - not just the defensive frailty.

[terpin]

But you weren't a professional footballer, right?

Any self respecting pro footballer should be comfortable with either foot..and if not you really have to wonder what the hell they're doing in training all day long.

It would be suicidal to put Fontaine at right back, if you can't see that then you obviously have no grasp of the concept of tactics in the game of football.

The real issue here is why was Ribeiro overlooked to cover for Orr. The perfect time to breed a youngster into the side which Gary Johnson has missed a trick on. Instead we play a center midfielder, who is admittatedly good cover in exceptional circumstances at right back, in this position.

With the lack of confidence around Ashton Gate at the moment we need to go back to basics and go back to a simple 4-4-2. Forgot the stuff about 3-5-2, 4-5-1, 4-4-3 etc for the time being and go back to a formation and formula that these players have grown up with and are comfortable with under pressure. The big problem is that Johnson has made a rod for his own back as we have not one player in the squad whose primary position would be classed as left midfield/winger.

[Chappers]

LJ was our second best midfielder today, Hartley was class and Elliott and Sno shocking, so no great achievement really. Taking Skuse off was ludicrous with so many others playing badly, I thought he, Carey and Hartley were the few players exempt from criticism. We briefly had balance this season by playing Sproule, Hartley, Skuse and Williams, but that excludes GJ's 3 favourites in midfield, and it might mean Ribiero getting a game when back!

Good fightback, we look so much better when positive, and was their keeper Basso in disguise?