Why Can't We Copy The Likes Of Birmingham City And Wba?

[Mr Mosquito]

We've had the recent league experience of playing Birmingham City and WBA where both those clubs play attractive football and get promotion from this division. Why can't we copy them? It might mean uprating this club's management and some playing staff but it shouldn't be beyond the means of this club given this club's support base.

['Orns]

We've had the recent league experience of playing Birmingham City and WBA where both those clubs play attractive football and get promotion from this division. Why can't we copy them? It might mean uprating this club's management and some playing staff but it shouldn't be beyond the means of this club given this club's support base.

When did Birmingham play attractive football? I must have missed that, and so must their fans who wanted McLeish sacked before Mr Sugar Daddy came along. And now with a promise of £40m to spend in January it's made all the players realise they'd best pull their finger out, or they could be on the scrapheap next month. Cracking run they are on right now though, fair shout to them.

WBA have played good football for some time, but cannot survive in the Prem as their chairman won't let them overspend, which their fans resent, and often chant for him to leave in favour of someone who will loosen the pursestrings.

Must be very hard to copy them, or every team in the CCC would've been in the Prem for a spell by now, and half of L1. Lets not kid ourselves we have the same support as these two, we've not in my lifetime, and quite possibly won't ever have. But don't let that get in the way of a good whinge.

[Bangkok Red]

Shouldn't we be holding up Burnley as the example to follow? - a club with much smaller resources than ourselves or the ones you mentioned

[Robbored]

Shouldn't we be holding up Burnley as the example to follow? - a club with much smaller resources than ourselves or the ones you mentioned

Yes we should. The difference is Burnley have Owen Coyle and we have Gary Johnson.

[reddogkev]

Yes we should. The difference is Burnley have Owen Coyle and we have Gary Johnson.

Good God, you really do hate GJ don't you???? This thread had nothing to do with him. We might be still in league 1 without the help of Gj, and yes I know that was in the past, but I couldn't give a damn!

[Robbored]

Good God, you really do hate GJ don't you???? This thread had nothing to do with him. We might be still in league 1 without the help of Gj, and yes I know that was in the past, but I couldn't give a damn!

I don't hate Gary Johnson or anyone for that matter. Just pointing out the difference between Burnley ( a club of similair size and resources to ourselves) and City.

I do happen to think, like an increasing number of City fans that Johnson has run out of idea's and possibly taken us about as far he is capable of.

[City1970]

I don't hate Gary Johnson or anyone for that matter. Just pointing out the difference between Burnley ( a club of similair size and resources to ourselves) and City.

I do happen to think, like an increasing number of City fans that Johnson has run out of idea's and possibly taken us about as far he is capable of.

Good response.

Mr tinkerman has taken us as far as he can.

Even the happy clappers have had enough.

I feer a relegation battle is not far away.

[Mr Mosquito]

When did Birmingham play attractive football? I must have missed that, and so must their fans who wanted McLeish sacked before Mr Sugar Daddy came along. And now with a promise of £40m to spend in January it's made all the players realise they'd best pull their finger out, or they could be on the scrapheap next month. Cracking run they are on right now though, fair shout to them.

WBA have played good football for some time, but cannot survive in the Prem as their chairman won't let them overspend, which their fans resent, and often chant for him to leave in favour of someone who will loosen the pursestrings.

Must be very hard to copy them, or every team in the CCC would've been in the Prem for a spell by now, and half of L1. Lets not kid ourselves we have the same support as these two, we've not in my lifetime, and quite possibly won't ever have. But don't let that get in the way of a good whinge.

Birmingham City played some amazing football in the first half at Ashton Gate last season when they went 0-2 up with Lee Trundle pulling the score back to 1-2 in the second half. Birmingham and WBA have easily played the best football against us of all the teams I've seen us play in the Championship. Far from whinging, BCFC's support would be like that of Birmingham and WBA if only we could get it together on the pitch and as a football club.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

We've had the recent league experience of playing Birmingham City and WBA where both those clubs play attractive football and get promotion from this division. Why can't we copy them? It might mean uprating this club's management and some playing staff but it shouldn't be beyond the means of this club given this club's support base.

Just a shot in the dark, but promotions to premier league mean increased income hence better quality players, relegations and the subsequent parachute payments to keep the majority of the better quality players, that would be my wild guess. FFS

[BCFC Forever]

Quite simple, Birmingham and WBA are much bigger clubs than us

[Mr Mosquito]

Just a shot in the dark, but promotions to premier league mean increased income hence better quality players, relegations and the subsequent parachute payments to keep the majority of the better quality players, that would be my wild guess. FFS

Birmingham City and WBA have been up and down like yo yos from the top flight to the second tier throughout their respective league histories. Only in recent years have they had the benefit of parachute payments. If only we could get into the top flight again - we were so close and yet so far at Wembley a few seasons back. It's so frustrating that we're in touching distance of promotion to the top flight but are now faltering like last season.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Birmingham City and WBA have been up and down like yo yos from the top flight to the second tier throughout their respective league histories. Only in recent years have they had the benefit of parachute payments. If only we could get into the top flight again - we were so close and yet so far at Wembley a few seasons back. It's so frustrating that we're in touching distance of promotion to the top flight but are now faltering like last season.

Yes the recent 6 or 7 years, So what is your point?, I don't really get it, in comparison to us they have had 100's of millions of £'s more than over this period, Which is one hell of an advantage and one massive reason that many recently relegated teams USUALLY get re-promoted.

[Mr Mosquito]

Yes the recent 6 or 7 years, So what is your point?, I don't really get it, in comparison to us they have had 100's of millions of £'s more than over this period, Which is one hell of an advantage and one massive reason that many recently relegated teams USUALLY get re-promoted.

I don't think they've had that much more cash or supporters than us over the years but what they have had is backing from more businessmen. The biggest benefactors we've had - to my knowledge - over the last 50 years are Harry Dolman and Steve Lansdown - WBA and Birmingham have had many more than us like them. That maybe the real reason for our under performance over the years in comparison to WBA and Birmingham - I really don't believe they're bigger clubs than us per se.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

I don't think they've had that much more cash or supporters than us over the years but what they have had is backing from more businessmen. The biggest benefactors we've had - to my knowledge - over the last 50 years are Harry Dolman and Steve Lansdown - WBA and Birmingham have had many more than us like them. That maybe the real reason for our under performance over the years in comparison to WBA and Birmingham - I really don't believe they're bigger clubs than us per se.

Now I know you're mental.

60 million for just being in the Premier League + more in income.

30 million parachute payments + the already signed premier league quality players.

and look at the support during this time, get a grip man.

[Maltshoveller]

Quite simple, Birmingham and WBA are much bigger clubs than us

Shortest post of the tread

but 100% spot on Simple

[Robbored]

Quite simple, Birmingham and WBA are much bigger clubs than us

True, but Burnley aren't and they probably played the best football of all last season and they are holding their own in the PL as well.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

True, but Burnley aren't and they probably played the best football of all last season and they are holding their own in the PL as well.

True, but sometimes managers put together teams that suddenly gel, Last seasons Burnley were totally different to the team the season before as were Stoke before them, it happens.

[Pezo]

I don't hate Gary Johnson or anyone for that matter. Just pointing out the difference between Burnley ( a club of similair size and resources to ourselves) and City.

I do happen to think, like an increasing number of City fans that Johnson has run out of idea's and possibly taken us about as far he is capable of.

So your whole argument on this occasion is based around Owen Coyle winning 1 game a year after we lost that same 1 game - we all know GJ is a very capable manager his record proves this. I would rather go on his past record and my opinion rather than your opinion that has had an agenda since day 1.

My opinion for what is worth is that the football at AG is dull at the moment mainly due to a lack of wing play and the lack of creation of space - I hold GJ/Mcindoe responsible for this but I have faith that this will be sorted out in January. IF this is not fixed in Jan I will be concerned and rather annoyed but I understand nothing can be done right now. My question to you is that if this is rectified in Jan and we start playing good attacking football will your constant bemoaning of all that is GJ cease? - I think you will just move on to something else that you and your drinking club buddies see as wrong - you might join Ashton Yate in the academy argument and some how that will be GJ fault!

Burnley had a lot more attempts at getting promoted and have been at this level much longer than us before they got promoted!

[Esmond Million's Bung]

So your whole argument on this occasion is based around Owen Coyle winning 1 game a year after we lost that same 1 game - we all know GJ is a very capable manager his record proves this. I would rather go on his past record and my opinion rather than your opinion that has had an agenda since day 1.

My opinion for what is worth is that the football at AG is dull at the moment mainly due to a lack of wing play and the lack of creation of space - I hold GJ/Mcindoe responsible for this but I have faith that this will be sorted out in January. IF this is not fixed in Jan I will be concerned and rather annoyed but I understand nothing can be done right now. My question to you is that if this is rectified in Jan and we start playing good attacking football will your constant bemoaning of all that is GJ cease? - I think you will just move on to something else that you and your drinking club buddies see as wrong - you might join Ashton Yate in the academy argument and some how that will be GJ fault!

Burnley had a lot more attempts at getting promoted and have been at this level much longer than us before they got promoted!

Absolutely.

[WellRedPhil]

Birmingham City played some amazing football in the first half at Ashton Gate last season when they went 0-2 up with Lee Trundle pulling the score back to 1-2 in the second half. Birmingham and WBA have easily played the best football against us of all the teams I've seen us play in the Championship. Far from whinging, BCFC's support would be like that of Birmingham and WBA if only we could get it together on the pitch and as a football club.

This doesn't prove they played decent footie. They actually struggled to score goals and had an excellent defense, you could argue their premier league form has been built on these strong foundations. But both have a much bigger fan-base, better resources and are traditional yo-yo clubs. A Burnley/Stoke comparison would have been much more suitable.

[City_pete1]

Quite simple, Birmingham and WBA are much bigger clubs than us

How true! but most people seem to be blind to that.

[Mr Mosquito]

Now I know you're mental.

60 million for just being in the Premier League + more in income.

30 million parachute payments + the already signed premier league quality players.

and look at the support during this time, get a grip man.

Mental? There hasn't always been a Premier League and parachute payments. Birmingham City were going nowhere and were in administration until David Sullivan took over in the early 1990's. I'm also pretty sure that our attendances were higher than Birmingham's at that time. Another club that's left us behind from that period is Bolton whom we beat in the Freight Rover and now they're established in the Premier League. It's about time it was our turn for a big change of fortune.

[grove park city]

Quite simple, Birmingham and WBA are much bigger clubs than us

Quality answer we have won diddly squat and 50 miles in any direction outside of Bristol we mean little more than just a name.. i saw Brum many times in the 70's with Francis,Hatton and Latchford up front at St Andrews with a gate of over 45,000 against humble Carlisle utd,with the best will in the world settle for Burnley or Stoke City as role models because Blues , Albion or Wolves we will never be. Our regard of the gas is what a lot of Villa fans thought of Birmingham so the pecking order really seldom changes,at the moment we are nearer to league 1 than the Prem history and tradition can't be bought .In the same way that Chelsea will never be held in such high regard as Manchester Utd ,Liverpool or Arsenal ...

[Mr Mosquito]

Quality answer we have won diddly squat and 50 miles in any direction outside of Bristol we mean little more than just a name.. i saw Brum many times in the 70's with Francis,Hatton and Latchford up front at St Andrews with a gate of over 45,000 against humble Carlisle utd,with the best will in the world settle for Burnley or Stoke City as role models because Blues , Albion or Wolves we will never be. Our regard of the gas is what a lot of Villa fans thought of Birmingham so the pecking order really seldom changes,at the moment we are nearer to league 1 than the Prem history and tradition can't be bought .In the same way that Chelsea will never be held in such high regard as Manchester Utd ,Liverpool or Arsenal ...

I remember Birmingham City against us with Trevor Francis up front circa 1978/79? - I'm pretty sure Birmingham were relegated and Francis ended up at Forest. I remember Bob Latchford playing for Everton more than him playing for Birmingham and he was a fantastic striker. Oh well, I'll just have to give up and accept that we'll never replicate Birmingham and WBA - or will we? Time will tell.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Mental? There hasn't always been a Premier League and parachute payments. Birmingham City were going nowhere and were in administration until David Sullivan took over in the early 1990's. I'm also pretty sure that our attendances were higher than Birmingham's at that time. Another club that's left us behind from that period is Bolton whom we beat in the Freight Rover and now they're established in the Premier League. It's about time it was our turn for a big change of fortune.

You asked the question as to why West Brom and Birmingham are better than us, it has nothing to do the 1970's Trevor Francis, Harry Dolman or Oliver ******* Cromwall.

None of this history has no relevance to your original post, all these bits of crap you trotting out are from years ago, 60 million would run our club for the next 4 years.

[Mr Mosquito]

You asked the question as to why West Brom and Birmingham are better than us, it has nothing to do the 1970's Trevor Francis, Harry Dolman or Oliver ******* Cromwall.

None of this history has no relevance to your original post, all these bits of crap you trotting out are from years ago, 60 million would run our club for the next 4 years.

Blimey you're miserable. I wasn't the one to originally mention Trevor Francis. Misery guts - I commented on the fact that even with Trevor Francis they were relegated. We finished safely above them in the top flight and I remember that - so Birmingham City haven't always been more successful or better supported in my lifetime. I'm sure we'll be able to overtake them again.

[grove park city]

I remember Birmingham City against us with Trevor Francis up front circa 1978/79? - I'm pretty sure Birmingham were relegated and Francis ended up at Forest. I remember Bob Latchford playing for Everton more than him playing for Birmingham and he was a fantastic striker. Oh well, I'll just have to give up and accept that we'll never replicate Birmingham and WBA - or will we? Time will tell.

Here we are back down memory lane again my cousin has been a bluenose forever living in sunny SOLIHULL so i use to go when visiting them, Trevor Francis would rip us to shreds saw him in his best days at Brum Bob Hatton and Bob Latchford made up one of the best strike forces i have ever seen, a visit to St Andrews then was about as rewarding as going to Q P R is now. Albion had Tony Bomber Brown up front and wingers like Cunningham,Peter Barnes ect even Clive Whitehead ended up there, i have happy memories of Gerry Sweeney getting the only goal of the game up there in the promotion year...

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Blimey you're miserable. I wasn't the one to originally mention Trevor Francis. Misery guts - I commented on the fact that even with Trevor Francis they were relegated. We finished safely above them in the top flight and I remember that - so Birmingham City haven't always been more successful or better supported in my lifetime. I'm sure we'll be able to overtake them again.

I am miserable and I admit it, but read your original post, it starts off talking about recent history and in recent history West Brom and Birmingham have been able to use the 60 million or 30 million that we don't have to spend on premier league players, that is why they play more attractive football, are better than us and probably why they have bigger crowds and not because of what happend in the 1970's or 1980's or even the 1990's, its the premier league money end of, that is the answer to your post, just admit it and we'll move on.

[Mr Mosquito]

I am miserable and I admit it, but read your original post, it starts off talking about recent history and in recent history West Brom and Birmingham have been able to use the 60 million or 30 million that we don't have to spend on premier league players, that is why they play more attractive football, are better than us and probably why they have bigger crowds and not because of what happend in the 1970's or 1980's or even the 1990's, its the premier league money end of, that is the answer to your post, just admit it and we'll move on.

Just to quosh the discussion and to make you happy - "it's the Premier League money".

Even so, this shouldn't be an excuse for this club not to gear for top flight football as Birmingham and WBA have. They still had to gear for Premier League football to get Premier League football to start with.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Just to quosh the discussion and to make you happy - "it's the Premier League money".

Even so, this shouldn't be an excuse for this club not to gear for top flight football as Birmingham and WBA have. They still had to gear for Premier League football to get Premier League football to start with.

That is a different post to your original.

So to that post I will say this, I think in comparison to many of our championship opponents, We have spent quite a lot with the exception perhaps of Notts Forest who have obviously not learned the lessons of the past, hopefully.