Poll;if Danny Wilson Had Stayed After Brighton Playoff..

[BCFC_Dan]

Good post that sums up then and now and the differences between the two era's.

Wilson's team selection at the play-off final was out of character for him. He usually went for an attacking set-up and when City were 0-1 to H'pool at AG he brought on Freezer who headed the equaliser. Fans often forget that.

Wilson must have froze at the thought of such a big game and decided to change his usual attack minded attitude into a more conservative style which as we know backfired. Either that or he read a page out of Gary Johnson's coaching manual. One game blighted Danny Wilson's reign as City manager. Shame I hope he can doesn't make the same mistake if he gets Swindon into the play-off final.

It wasn't one game, it was that entire final season.

The 2002-03 team was a good one but it was a one trick pony that came up short when Wilson tried to replace Murray with Luke Wilkshire.

2003-04 was characterised by some unbelievably dull football and a run of extremely fortunate single-goal victories that lifted an otherwise insignificant mid-table side up to the top of a poor division.

The fact is that Danny Wilson is a mediocre football manager who has achieved nothing of note since he won promotion with Barnsley.

Gary Johnson has achieved far more in terms of success and his style of play is really not too dissimilar to Wilson's, with the exception that Johnson's delivers results.

[Robbored]

2003-04 was characterised by some unbelievably dull football and a run of extremely fortunate single-goal victories that lifted an otherwise insignificant mid-table side up to the top of a poor division.

That season City won 23 games. 15 at AG and 8 away. Lost 10 games. 2 at AG. They scored 34 home goals and 24 away. Goal difference of +23. They finished 3rd on 82 points. Argyle were top with an impressive 90 points and QPR were second with 83 points.

Dull football eh?

[Riaz]

Lets be honest here. Danny Wilson was lucky to have Scott Murray & Brian Tinnion IN THEIR PRIME.

With those two player in their prime - its pretty amazing that he did'nt get us promotion...

Especially when you consider he also had the Doc and Matty Hill.... and he spent 600k yes 600k! on lee peacock!

If I was danny wilson, looking back, I'd be very embarassed.

[Robbored]

Lets be honest here. Danny Wilson was lucky to have Scott Murray & Brian Tinnion IN THEIR PRIME.

With those two player in their prime - its pretty amazing that he did'nt get us promotion...

Especially when you consider he also had the Doc and Matty Hill.... and he spent 600k yes 600k! on lee peacock!

If I was danny wilson, looking back, I'd be very embarassed.

Utter and complete nonsense.

But then you are a Gary Johnson fan and wouldn't know good football when you saw it.

[BCFC_Dan]

That season City won 23 games. 15 at AG and 8 away. Lost 10 games. 2 at AG. They scored 34 home goals and 24 away. Goal difference of +23. They finished 3rd on 82 points. Argyle were top with an impressive 90 points and QPR were second with 83 points.

Dull football eh?

Gary Johnson's first full season in charge of City: 25 wins (15 home, 10 away) 35 goals scored at home, 28 away, goal difference of 24.

City finished 2nd with 85 points, whilst the top team scored 91.

So Johnson's City team was superior to Wilson's in every single respect.

The following season (in a higher division), City won 20 games (13 at home) scoring 33 at home and 21 away. So in terms of home performances City under Johnson in the Championship were two wins and one goal behind Wilson's League One side.

So either Wilson's 03-04 City side was boring, or Johnson's can be exciting. You can't have it both ways because the facts don't support it.

[Riaz]

Utter and complete nonsense.

But then you are a Gary Johnson fan and wouldn't know good football when you saw it.

I'm a bristol city fan, not a gary johnson fan. Instead of getting personal - please point out which points are wrong??

Were Murray and Tinnion not in their prime? you gave danny wilson credit for these players although they were already at the club?

Which players did he bring to the club that were succesful? Roberts - yep - very under-rated he was. any others robbo?

Danny wilson was not the worse manager by any means - but he's not the manager you paint him to be and I can remember too many "dull" games for my liking...

I'd rather watch dull championship games that dull league one games - at least championship sides are organised and difficult to beat - thus leading to the "dull" games.

[Robbored]

Gary Johnson's first full season in charge of City: 25 wins (15 home, 10 away) 35 goals scored at home, 28 away, goal difference of 24.

City finished 2nd with 85 points, whilst the top team scored 91.

So Johnson's City team was superior to Wilson's in every single respect.

The following season (in a higher division), City won 20 games (13 at home) scoring 33 at home and 21 away. So in terms of home performances City under Johnson in the Championship were two wins and one goal behind Wilson's League One side.

So either Wilson's 03-04 City side was boring, or Johnson's can be exciting. You can't have it both ways because the facts don't support it.

You are convienently overlooking how strong Div 1 was when Wilson was in charge. Much stronger than when Johnson took us up. #59 partly explains that.

In City's first CCC season under Johnson we managed a very exciting 13 (I think) 1-0 wins. City finished the season with a goal difference of +1.

See what I mean? Lies, damn lies and statistics....

[BCFC_Dan]

You are convienently overlooking how strong Div 1 was when Wilson was in charge. Much stronger than when Johnson took us up. #59 partly explains that.

In City's first CCC season under Johnson we managed a very exciting 13 (I think) 1-0 wins. City finished the season with a goal difference of +1.

See what I mean? Lies, damn lies and statistics....

Since the stats don't indicate any great difference between the teams in the division across the two seasons I can only assume your assertion is purely subjective and that you simply believe Plymouth and QPR to have been stronger than S****horpe and Nottingham Forest.

Your second point simply proves what I have been saying. You can't argue one one hand that a series of 1-0 wins makes Johnson's team boring, whilst simultaneously claiming that Wilson's side with a very similar record was exciting.

You can prove anything you want with statistics but you have to at least have some idea of what you're talking about or you'll just end up looking daft.

[Riaz]

Lets be honest here. Danny Wilson was lucky to have Scott Murray & Brian Tinnion IN THEIR PRIME.

With those two player in their prime - its pretty amazing that he did'nt get us promotion...

Especially when you consider he also had the Doc and Matty Hill.... and he spent 600k yes 600k! on lee peacock!

If I was danny wilson, looking back, I'd be very embarassed.

Utter and complete nonsense.

But then you are a Gary Johnson fan and wouldn't know good football when you saw it.

I'm a bristol city fan, not a gary johnson fan. Instead of getting personal - please point out which points are wrong??

Were Murray and Tinnion not in their prime? you gave danny wilson credit for these players although they were already at the club?

Which players did he bring to the club that were succesful? Roberts - yep - very under-rated he was. any others robbo?

Danny wilson was not the worse manager by any means - but he's not the manager you paint him to be and I can remember too many "dull" games for my liking...

I'd rather watch dull championship games that dull league one games - at least championship sides are organised and difficult to beat - thus leading to the "dull" games.

And no response from robbo? cant handle the truth robbo?

I suggest that it is you robbo, that does not understand football

[Robbored]

And no response from robbo? cant handle the truth robbo?

I suggest that it is you robbo, that does not understand football

Tinnion, Murray and Mickey Bell were all in thier prime but thats hardly the fault of the manager.

I would argue that Johnson has more quality in his squad than Wilson ever did.

Wilson has three quality players in his squad and didn't have the likes of Hartley, Sno, Maynard, Fontaine, Elliot, Skuse and Haynes. You could add Clarkson, Saborio and Gerkin who is a far better keeper than Flapper ever was to the list.

The bottom line regardless of what players were/are available is that overall Wilson produced a far better style football than Johnson has in the last three seasons. Just take a look at the respective goal differences to see the evidence.

If you reckon that the football we've been subjected to over the last two seasons in particular is better and more exciting than what Wilson served up then I refer to my remark in an earlier post in this thread,

[Pezo]

Sorry Pezo, not sure many were calling him shit after he set up Roberts to score in the final moments of the Hartlepool game (albeit Robbo had a lot to do still).

Exhibit A

15/17 suggested lineups include Lita in the 16. (The other two had Peacock fit in the 16 which turned out not to be).

Exhibit B

Everyone who lists a "16" in this thread includes Lita in that 16. (Riaz has Lita on the bench in this thread.)

Exhibit C

Posted before kick off asking why no Leroy?

There's then plenty of threads post match asking why no attacker on the bench when Leroy was available. Call it hindsight, but there's Gasheads asking us why our so-called "supersub" was left out of the 16. So clearly there was supporters calling him that at the time, rather than a headless chicken.

NB Whilst researching this I saw lots of comments referring to Danny Negative & Danny Won'tson.

OK maybe it was just a few fools behind me then.

[Riaz]

Tinnion, Murray and Mickey Bell were all in thier prime but thats hardly the fault of the manager.

I would argue that Johnson has more quality in his squad than Wilson ever did.

Wilson has three quality players in his squad and didn't have the likes of Hartley, Sno, Maynard, Fontaine, Elliot, Skuse and Haynes. You could add Clarkson, Saborio and Gerkin who is a far better keeper than Flapper ever was to the list.

The bottom line regardless of what players were/are available is that overall Wilson produced a far better style football than Johnson has in the last three seasons. Just take a look at the respective goal differences to see the evidence.

If you reckon that the football we've been subjected to over the last two seasons in particular is better and more exciting than what Wilson served up then I refer to my remark in an earlier post in this thread,

oh my word. you really are clueless.

It was'nt his fault that he inherited some quality players? thats a good thing for him surely? If he could have added some half decent players to those already here, we would have p!ssed all over that league - instead he stuck joe burnell in central midfield and the players he brought in (Roberts aside) werent all that.

Johnson has more quality than wilson ever did - but he has got us into a position that he is able to bring in those sort of players.

Wilson inherited a far better squad than johnson did and spent alot more while in league one.

To say Wilson produced better football and goal difference proves that is just ridiculous.... WILSON MANAGED AT A FAR LOWER LEVEL OF FOOTBALL. Every team we face in this division is very organised. Whereas, under wilson we often stuggled against teams like chesterfield, bournemouth, wrexham, wycombe, brentford, oxford - the list goes on...

These teams would or should have been easier to play better football against...

The teams that Johnson is facing are of a far higher level - boro, wba, coventry, leicester, newcastle etc etc

[BCFC_Dan]

Tinnion, Murray and Mickey Bell were all in thier prime but thats hardly the fault of the manager.

I would argue that Johnson has more quality in his squad than Wilson ever did.

Wilson has three quality players in his squad and didn't have the likes of Hartley, Sno, Maynard, Fontaine, Elliot, Skuse and Haynes. You could add Clarkson, Saborio and Gerkin who is a far better keeper than Flapper ever was to the list.

The bottom line regardless of what players were/are available is that overall Wilson produced a far better style football than Johnson has in the last three seasons. Just take a look at the respective goal differences to see the evidence.

If you reckon that the football we've been subjected to over the last two seasons in particular is better and more exciting than what Wilson served up then I refer to my remark in an earlier post in this thread,

Wilson would have been able to add more quality to his squad if he'd ever managed to get the team promoted.

He spent far more money in League One than Johnson did and certainly had more talented players.

I think you're being extremely unfair in not comparing like with like. Last season and this season so far have been a bit disappointing, but prior to that Johnson compares exceedingly well with Wilson, and is only suffering now because he's advanced the standard.

I do reckon that the football in the last two seasons is better than Wilson managed, because it is being played by better players in a higher division. You might prefer to see City in a lower division handing out the occasional thrashing to Stockport County or Gillingham but I'd rather see them try to battle against a higher class of opposition regardless of the result.

[Lack of Action Man]

I do reckon that the football in the last two seasons is better than Wilson managed, because it is being played by better players in a higher division.

Can't agree with that I'm afraid. Our football is very stale and has been for some time. There are signs it is improving which I'm glad to see.

It's opinions and speculation though. Without them we wouldn't even have this thread (which in itself is based upon a hypothetical situation).

I think the best point I've seen was recalling the standing ovation that Danny got when he came back. He can't have been all that bad to get the reception he did.

[Kid in the Riot]

I think the best point I've seen was recalling the standing ovation that Danny got when he came back. He can't have been all that bad to get the reception he did.

Were you at the game?

I can assure you that many of those 'cheers' were a result of the disatisfaction of results under Tinnion at the time, who of course was infamously booed when his name was read out over the tannoy.

It was I suppose a way of getting at Tinnion. If we'd been flying high then Wilson may have got a polite applause and I actually reckon a few boos. 'Standing ovation' is going a bit far too seeing as though the teams were about to come out, most people stand at that point anyway!

There have been many good points in this thread, but that's not one of them.

[Donkeeebles]

I Do not wish to discredit GJ's achievments in any way.

Personally I'm not so sure. Possibly things needed freshening up at the time.Although the play off final ,dour as it was, could definitely be considered as progress on previous seasons.

I do, however ,reckon that if he manages to get swindon up this year , he would have acheived the same with City.

NO

[the frampton balti]

could somebody please explain how to do a poll? reading through replies i would guess that about 80% of the forum believe that city would not be in the championship if wilson had remained in charge.Bearing in mind there have now been four full seasons i think it seems likely that with steve lansdownes backing he would have acheived promotion at some point.Having said that gj has walked the walk!!!!

[Lack of Action Man]

Were you at the game?

There have been many good points in this thread, but that's not one of them.

No I was flying the queen of sheba...yes of course I was at the game.

In your opinion it isn't a good point. In my opinion it is.

And would you really cheer someone you didn't have any respect for just as a dig to someone else? I wouldn't though I supose I must be in the minority.

[haugen]

The best form I've ever known at City was in Wilson's first season. He came in, took a few months to sort us out, sort the squad out then found our 'niche' and whallop we climbed from 23rd to 3rd in a few months of high-scoring wins, counter-attacks in a 3-5-2 with Tinman, Murray, Bell, Thorpe, Peacock and Aaron Brown and Beadle (and even Carey and Hill from centre-back) terrorising the third tier lot, creating chance after chance.

It was only injuries that caused us to stumble into the new year of '01 and fall out of play-off spots, because that starting line-up had gelled and was playing twice a week. I particularly remember a dominant 4-1 away win at league-leaders Reading, who ended up in the Prem with that side a few years later. And away at Prem Leicester in the FA Cup we played them off the park.

Wilson's football was on the deck, but that wasn't best suited for getting out of the third tier.

[haugen]

We had an awful lot of issues/bad luck with injuries under Wilsomn's entire tenure. We never seemed to be able to play our best 11 out often or regularly.

But to answer the Q, - Yes.

[Jordan Tansley]

everyone does remember Lita coming on and the whole game changing against Hartlepool? he deserved to start just for that ten minutes or so where he roughed everything up and changed the whole complexion of the game with Roberts and co.

everyone said AT THE TIME that Lita should have started. there is NO disputing that.

[bucksred]

He would have eventually managed promotion, followed by a swift relegation. Far better off with GJ, not Wonderson....

[haugen]

You have to ask where we'd be if it wasn't for Wilson. We were a mess! Hitting long balls to an overweight Steve Jones and Beadle, an aged, slow Tinnion wasted wide left and Carl Hutchings and Ivan Testimitanu in a highly-mediocre midfield pairing. A squad of 57 players and a big youth system with more coming into the squad. It was just a mess, right through the club - even the training sessions, pre-match in the changing rooms etc. Trust me.

Wilson brought a lot of professionalism to the club, the whole club and laid down the foundations for us to be where we are now. Believe me.

[haugen]

Sure, he got boring in the end with his Joe Burnell/Craig Woodman obsessions and his suit and dry personality.

But he did A LOT for us, IMO.

[bucksred]

I think we were unfortunate in a way under Wilson, because I think his team peaked at the wrong time.

The team we had in 2002-03 was far stronger than the team that Gary Johnson got us promoted with in my opinion. That season was fantastic... over 100 goals scored in all competitions, Murray on fire.. many a time I left a game with opposition fans commenting what a superb football side we were!

But at the time, the division was so strong.. We were up against moneybags Cardiff who contained the likes of Earnshaw, Gabbidon and Kavanagh..... Crewe with a strike partnership of Rob Hulse and Dean Ashton.... and Wigan who amassed a record points total that season. All three were light years ahead of anyone else thats been in that division since, and i've no doubt that Wilsons team would have romped to the league title a couple of years later.

The team Johnson put together in 2007 wasnt at the same level imho... the division was a lot poorer, and we won promotion through consistancy and hard work, rather than good football.. But the difference is, they were winners. We gained a habbit of winning games whilst playing poory, keeping clean sheets and not bottling the big occasions (paint pot trophy crap at the minimal ground excluded) This was the magic ingredient that Wilson simply didnt have imho.

did you go to Wycombe away that season then??? 13 games without a win, and they ******* battered us, and that stupid ***** Docherty got himself sent off as well. Now was Wonderson EVER gonna get City promoted. Defeat is not failure my ass...and thats after reading my previous post, when I reckoned he could get us up. now I know he couldnt..

Only Tinnion could manage worse...Lu'on, Swampsea...

[Jacki's Luv Child]

I think we were unfortunate in a way under Wilson, because I think his team peaked at the wrong time.

The team we had in 2002-03 was far stronger than the team that Gary Johnson got us promoted with in my opinion. That season was fantastic... over 100 goals scored in all competitions, Murray on fire.. many a time I left a game with opposition fans commenting what a superb football side we were!

But at the time, the division was so strong.. We were up against moneybags Cardiff who contained the likes of Earnshaw, Gabbidon and Kavanagh..... Crewe with a strike partnership of Rob Hulse and Dean Ashton.... and Wigan who amassed a record points total that season. All three were light years ahead of anyone else thats been in that division since, and i've no doubt that Wilsons team would have romped to the league title a couple of years later.

The team Johnson put together in 2007 wasnt at the same level imho... the division was a lot poorer, and we won promotion through consistancy and hard work, rather than good football.. But the difference is, they were winners. We gained a habbit of winning games whilst playing poory, keeping clean sheets and not bottling the big occasions (paint pot trophy crap at the minimal ground excluded) This was the magic ingredient that Wilson simply didnt have imho.

[Jacki's Luv Child]

I think we were unfortunate in a way under Wilson, because I think his team peaked at the wrong time.

The team we had in 2002-03 was far stronger than the team that Gary Johnson got us promoted with in my opinion. That season was fantastic... over 100 goals scored in all competitions, Murray on fire.. many a time I left a game with opposition fans commenting what a superb football side we were!

But at the time, the division was so strong.. We were up against moneybags Cardiff who contained the likes of Earnshaw, Gabbidon and Kavanagh..... Crewe with a strike partnership of Rob Hulse and Dean Ashton.... and Wigan who amassed a record points total that season. All three were light years ahead of anyone else thats been in that division since, and i've no doubt that Wilsons team would have romped to the league title a couple of years later.

The team Johnson put together in 2007 wasnt at the same level imho... the division was a lot poorer, and we won promotion through consistancy and hard work, rather than good football.. But the difference is, they were winners. We gained a habbit of winning games whilst playing poory, keeping clean sheets and not bottling the big occasions (paint pot trophy crap at the minimal ground excluded) This was the magic ingredient that Wilson simply didnt have imho.

Sod it...first post on new look board so apologies for the above!

Excellent post SCR. Not sure that I attended the same games as some other posters - perhaps I was in a different stand. To me, Wilson's sides played quick, neat and attractive football. Mainly ball to feet, excellent wing play and watching Micky & Tinns overlap on the left was as pleasurable as watching Scotty down the right. Our goals scored was in stark contrast to what we're now achieving although we did have a habit of getting overrun by the big, physical teams. I remember commenting at the time that we wouldn't football our way out of League 1, we needed to be able to mix it (as Colchester and others did). I think Wilson recognised this and for a spell we had Doc and Burnell in central midfield, which shored us up a bit but made us slightly less attractive to watch (and prompted many a moan on here).

Other thoughts - Peacock flattered to deceive and always asked me to buy him a pint when I bumped into him on Park Street. Wilson wouldn't drop him as he was a "major" £650k signing. Butler was useful but no replacement for Shaun Taylor. Philips was a quality keeper at that level but always a miserable sod and to come back on the "headless chicken" debate, I think I recall that Leroy actually looked like Road Runner at full pelt.

For me Wilson as a manager had us playing flowing attractive football (often commented on by opposition fans) but never delivered the end product - a little like his teams with lots of outstanding intricate build up play but no-one finishing. Still, we had some great nights (play-offs) and days out in Cardiff. I actually always liked DW and still do. He is honest, has a good understanding of the game and his teams (generally) play attractive football. I was really pleased for the guy when he got such a great reception the first time he returned to The Gate and wish him well and Swindle.

[Jacki's Luv Child]

Sorry...just to add...DW also said he believed we should have a Bristolian as Captain when he handed the armband to Carey...whatever you think of him you can't knock that

[Maesknoll Red]

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/sport/Ex-Bristol-City-star-Lita-arrested/article-1700225-detail/article.html

These were the sort of headlines we saw from the Wilson era, probably the reason why his sides never realised their potential. For some, it seems as nothings changed.......

[BCFC_Dan]

Wilson brought a lot of professionalism to the club, the whole club and laid down the foundations for us to be where we are now. Believe me.

Wilson brought professionalism? Are you sure about that?

How come we had players who were too drunk to drive themselves into training? Who were found sleeping in ditches? Who were out for 3 months because they fell down steps and broke their arm?

Wilson wasn't even in Bristol most of the time. He didn't care what his players did and as a result not only did he fail to get the best out of them, he also risked the careers of some of the young players at the club by employing seniors who set such a bad example. I'm fairly sure that Danny Coles for instance had the talent to play at the top level but where is he now?

I would never have agreed with this at the time, and I still believe Pulis damaged City during his time in charge, but you have to wonder why he is doing well in the Premier League whilst Wilson is still muddling about in League One.