Steve Lansdown's View On Anti-gj Otib Clan

[The Casual Connoisseur]

The answer is simple, don't express your views if they are negative or your views don't comply with the opinion of some self appointed new form of positivity monitor.

I like to read views from everyone, een when they are completely opposing to mine or in direct confrontation to mine, it's a forum, we are not qualified football experts, we pay our money we have our say and each and everyone one of us has that right, the forum is unofficial and arguably not censored.

For every negative comment on Gary Johnson there was at least the same claiming he was doing a good job, for every vitriolic comment there was one claiming to be the second coming.

[Somerset Red]

A great chairman Steve Lansdown. Each single fan agree on that I'm sure but how can we best show our appreciation?

Tommy

"Stevie Lansdowns Cider Army"

That'll do till the new Messiah turns up!

[bernie from barrow gurney]

OK, I am a fairly balanced individual. Plus you wont get much negativity from me. I am pretty glass half full. I didnt want GJ to go, but now he has gone the club is doing the right thing and looking to the future. "The only constant is change" and all that. But for SL and other leaders within the club, these are my thoughts on this:

1. This is part of parcel of the world we live in. All clubs have forums now. People who previously had no voice, now do. Nothing can now stop this. The elephant is in the room and wont be going anywhere from now on. And now with an even more powerful social network, it will be even more extreme than it is now. New manager, new players, new stadium, new kit, in fact anything that has changed, will change or should change will bring with it a tide of opinion and comments. We live in a city that has always (for 500 years or so) had a strong blue collar voice, from sailors to dock workers to unions among a fairly static and sheltered population. This is the city in which the club and its soap opera affairs exists.

2. We live a 'democracy', and freedom of speech is important. Closing this forum would do nothing. The conversation would just reappear elsewhere. But everyone needs to understand that this isn't like government with one side in power and the other in opposition. We are all, actually, on the same side. And its Bristol City Football Club against 91 other teams. Period.

3. Everyone has the right to a subjective and an objective opinion. There is no right and wrong. However, opinion often leads to a change in activity and attitude. The problems start when this opinion is based on half truths and rumour.

4. Managers, chairman and players need to better manage their own PR, in whichever way in which that needs to manifest itself. The club comms team need to take this forum and those elsewhere very seriously if they care about the atmosphere, and attendances within the club. It needs managing positively and with the assumption that any the old model of drip feeding sterile anodyne 'club news' only creates a vacuum into which rumour and supposition reigns.

5. Winning teams bring harmony, but if you allow a combative aggressive culture to develop and justify that culture through results, then don't be surprised how quick things fall apart when those winning results stop coming.

6. in a forum with getting on for 200,000 visits from over 40,000 human beings each month, even though most will be centred in the passive majority you will have an aggressive minority at either end of the reality spectrum. Its just standard distribution.

Thats it. Now move on please. Nothing more to see here.

[Kibs]

[Red-Robbo]

Simple solution, Don't bother reading it.

Spot on, mate! I can hardly believe that professionals become motivated or demotivated by the opinions of folk like us, who let's face it, are by definition armchair critics.

If I took to heart the negative comments I read about the place I work, I'd be crying into my beer every weekend!

[Nibor]

In the article I read, SteveL didn't actually mention internet forums. I think the original poster is guilty of some fairly tabloidesque shitty editorial practise by assigning a provocative but misleading title and then posting only half the quote, which was actually prefaced with:

"Come Saturday, when the fans turn up with Keith Millen in charge, they have to remember that this football club is something special."

"It's come a long way in four-and-a-half years and Gary has helped us and we should be grateful for that but now we have to look at the next four-and-a-half years and take it to the next level."

"What I want the fans to do is believe in this football club. I know people think that when they pay their money they have a right to moan, but before they moan they should give them a cheer, and by doing that they could make all the difference."

"Moan after the game and in the pub, but on the pitch get behind everybody, because if they don't we won't get that success."

Paints a rather different picture actually and I doubt you will find many on any forum that don't get behind the team on the pitch. But I suppose the opportunity to take a quote out of context was a bit too much for the holier than thou types to pass up and now that the club has confirmed they can't blame Ivan Sproule, Louis Carey and Paul Hartley for their messiah's departure a new target is necessary.

I'm fairly surprised by Steve's idea that people who express views assume importance - surprised by the naiveté of it that is, because it's simply not possible. The importance is not something the person expressing views assumes, it is something the person listening assigns to them. If SteveL is not aware of that he should be very careful about reading any views at all lest they affect his judgement. I mean really, he's trying to suggest that the anonymous posters he scorns have an undue influence? Only if the reader chooses for them to. Those who take posts from people like Robbored with obvious axes to grind seriously have only their own stupidity to blame. Some tiny proportion of the criticism on here is spiteful with bad motives, most is not and is constructive. The same is true of the positivity - most is good, a tiny proportion is blind faith and trying to be better than everyone else.

This forum has been the place where many positive things have arisen or gained momentum over the years; the ST, the re-opening of the east end, the dumping of that god awful badge and kit design, hell the appointment of GJ in the first place! Some of those were things that SteveL was vehemently opposed to but he was wrong then as well - so the idea that otib or any other forum has a negative effect is patently absurd. Fans have always been able to voice criticism and do so anonymously, before the internet there were radio shows, newspapers, and chanting at a match - and in fact there's a reasonable case for an outlet like a forum helping there to be less of the latter on match day. The fact that there is more criticism on here when things go poorly isn't down to the forum, it's true of every form of media from the buzz in the pub to the national press.

Let's be clear. GJ has not left the club because of an internet witch hunt, nor has this forum in any way affected the players on the pitch. GJ left because over a period of 18 months our results and performances have steadily and consistently declined despite our spending increasing to the point where we made a £6m loss but are in danger of relegation. It really is that simple.

What's necessary today is backing the team on the pitch. Let's hope that even the hypocrites on this thread who so detest negativity can tear themselves away from it to support the team eh?

[Galley is our king]

[Mr Popodopolous]

Fair point raised by him really. It did brieflly cross my mind the other day though, wondering whether he had read the forums and panicked based on it.

[Red-Robbo]

More likely to have looked at the table and took a realistic decision based on that!

[The Casual Connoisseur]

In the article I read, SteveL didn't actually mention internet forums. I think the original poster is guilty of some fairly tabloidesque shitty editorial practise by assigning a provocative but misleading title and then posting only half the quote, which was actually prefaced with:

"Come Saturday, when the fans turn up with Keith Millen in charge, they have to remember that this football club is something special."

"It's come a long way in four-and-a-half years and Gary has helped us and we should be grateful for that but now we have to look at the next four-and-a-half years and take it to the next level."

"What I want the fans to do is believe in this football club. I know people think that when they pay their money they have a right to moan, but before they moan they should give them a cheer, and by doing that they could make all the difference."

"Moan after the game and in the pub, but on the pitch get behind everybody, because if they don't we won't get that success."

Paints a rather different picture actually and I doubt you will find many on any forum that don't get behind the team on the pitch. But I suppose the opportunity to take a quote out of context was a bit too much for the holier than thou types to pass up and now that the club has confirmed they can't blame Ivan Sproule, Louis Carey and Paul Hartley for their messiah's departure a new target is necessary.

I'm fairly surprised by Steve's idea that people who express views assume importance - surprised by the naiveté of it that is, because it's simply not possible. The importance is not something the person expressing views assumes, it is something the person listening assigns to them. If SteveL is not aware of that he should be very careful about reading any views at all lest they affect his judgement. I mean really, he's trying to suggest that the anonymous posters he scorns have an undue influence? Only if the reader chooses for them to. Those who take posts from people like Robbored with obvious axes to grind seriously have only their own stupidity to blame. Some tiny proportion of the criticism on here is spiteful with bad motives, most is not and is constructive. The same is true of the positivity - most is good, a tiny proportion is blind faith and trying to be better than everyone else.

This forum has been the place where many positive things have arisen or gained momentum over the years; the ST, the re-opening of the east end, the dumping of that god awful badge and kit design, hell the appointment of GJ in the first place! Some of those were things that SteveL was vehemently opposed to but he was wrong then as well - so the idea that otib or any other forum has a negative effect is patently absurd. Fans have always been able to voice criticism and do so anonymously, before the internet there were radio shows, newspapers, and chanting at a match - and in fact there's a reasonable case for an outlet like a forum helping there to be less of the latter on match day. The fact that there is more criticism on here when things go poorly isn't down to the forum, it's true of every form of media from the buzz in the pub to the national press.

Let's be clear. GJ has not left the club because of an internet witch hunt, nor has this forum in any way affected the players on the pitch. GJ left because over a period of 18 months our results and performances have steadily and consistently declined despite our spending increasing to the point where we made a £6m loss but are in danger of relegation. It really is that simple.

What's necessary today is backing the team on the pitch. Let's hope that even the hypocrites on this thread who so detest negativity can tear themselves away from it to support the team eh?

Fairplay mucker you are no fool!

Fantastic read.

[red badger]

In the article I read, SteveL didn't actually mention internet forums. I think the original poster is guilty of some fairly tabloidesque shitty editorial practise by assigning a provocative but misleading title and then posting only half the quote, which was actually prefaced with:

"Come Saturday, when the fans turn up with Keith Millen in charge, they have to remember that this football club is something special."

"It's come a long way in four-and-a-half years and Gary has helped us and we should be grateful for that but now we have to look at the next four-and-a-half years and take it to the next level."

"What I want the fans to do is believe in this football club. I know people think that when they pay their money they have a right to moan, but before they moan they should give them a cheer, and by doing that they could make all the difference."

"Moan after the game and in the pub, but on the pitch get behind everybody, because if they don't we won't get that success."

Paints a rather different picture actually and I doubt you will find many on any forum that don't get behind the team on the pitch. But I suppose the opportunity to take a quote out of context was a bit too much for the holier than thou types to pass up and now that the club has confirmed they can't blame Ivan Sproule, Louis Carey and Paul Hartley for their messiah's departure a new target is necessary.

I'm fairly surprised by Steve's idea that people who express views assume importance - surprised by the naiveté of it that is, because it's simply not possible. The importance is not something the person expressing views assumes, it is something the person listening assigns to them. If SteveL is not aware of that he should be very careful about reading any views at all lest they affect his judgement. I mean really, he's trying to suggest that the anonymous posters he scorns have an undue influence? Only if the reader chooses for them to. Those who take posts from people like Robbored with obvious axes to grind seriously have only their own stupidity to blame. Some tiny proportion of the criticism on here is spiteful with bad motives, most is not and is constructive. The same is true of the positivity - most is good, a tiny proportion is blind faith and trying to be better than everyone else.

This forum has been the place where many positive things have arisen or gained momentum over the years; the ST, the re-opening of the east end, the dumping of that god awful badge and kit design, hell the appointment of GJ in the first place! Some of those were things that SteveL was vehemently opposed to but he was wrong then as well - so the idea that otib or any other forum has a negative effect is patently absurd. Fans have always been able to voice criticism and do so anonymously, before the internet there were radio shows, newspapers, and chanting at a match - and in fact there's a reasonable case for an outlet like a forum helping there to be less of the latter on match day. The fact that there is more criticism on here when things go poorly isn't down to the forum, it's true of every form of media from the buzz in the pub to the national press.

Let's be clear. GJ has not left the club because of an internet witch hunt, nor has this forum in any way affected the players on the pitch. GJ left because over a period of 18 months our results and performances have steadily and consistently declined despite our spending increasing to the point where we made a £6m loss but are in danger of relegation. It really is that simple.

What's necessary today is backing the team on the pitch. Let's hope that even the hypocrites on this thread who so detest negativity can tear themselves away from it to support the team eh?

Some really good points - and a good reminder of the forum at its best but in fairness to the original poster the article reads:

The chairman hit out at those fans who boo and jeer at matches and also those who have been abusive on internet forums. (my underlining)

Lansdown said: "Come Saturday, when the fans turn up with Keith Millen in charge, they have to remember that this football club is something special.

"It's come a long way in four-and-a-half years and Gary has helped us and we should be grateful for that but now we have to look at the next four-and-a-half years and take it to the next level.

"What I want the fans to do is believe in this football club. I know people think that when they pay their money they have a right to moan, but before they moan they should give them a cheer, and by doing that they could make all the difference.

"Moan after the game and in the pub, but on the pitch get behind everybody, because if they don't we won't get that success.

"The criticism is out of order. The people who make these comments do it anonymously, although I know who some of them are, and they think they know everything, yet they know nothing.

"They are entitled to their opinion – that is the joy of living in England – but they assume greater importance than they deserve and they have a negative effect.

"Gary and I didn't part company because of them but they were a major influence. They just don't help the football club."

I've no wish to pick a fight with one of the silverback beasts of the forum jungle (12 000 posts for heavens sake) or his friends on here but a while back in this thread I suggested that the tone of some of the posters on this forum was macho...thanks for confirming that with:

"the original poster is guilty of some fairly tabloidesque shitty editorial practise by assigning a provocative but misleading title and then posting only half the quote"

"I suppose the opportunity to take a quote out of context was a bit too much for the holier than thou types to pass up"

"Let's hope that even the hypocrites on this thread who so detest negativity can tear themselves away from it to support the team eh?"

I'll keep my head down.

[Jesus]

[Atticus]

[Esmond Million's Bung]

The holier than thou and the sanctimonious have an opinion that is sacred to them and provides the undoubted balance to the negativity.

Even the hypocrites who suffer memory loss to previous posts they have commented on have a right to their opinion.

For me SL has made the correct decision, However the gutter press evil post story about what brought about SL's decision could have and probably was just cobbled together from the rumours on this forum.

[numbeast]

I think some people have very short memories. Just how many people were threatening to not renew their season ticket until GJ was removed? Now like Pontious Pilate are washing their hands of any responsibility. Yes this forum does have a major influance on the running of the football club especially when so many "True Fans" (as they like themselves to be known) basically state they are willing to desert the club until they are happy. Now don't get me wrong, that is their right but to then say they had nothing to do with GJ leaving the club and the chairman blowing it out of proportion does bewilder me somewhat.

Gary Johnson has had his detractors from almost day one and some such as Robbored will admit to this (and in a strange way deserve respect for this) but many on here have jumped on his bandwagon to a greater or lesser extent causing a snowball of negativity. Like a snowball every small post against the manager has been added to the one before it and although in the main a lot of these posts are only venting frustrations and the posters see no harm in that, it slowly mounts up to an overall feeling which seems to infect others thus propogating the rebellious mood. What they fail to see is their posts from a different perspective such as that of the player who read the increase in anti GJ posts and getting negative vibs from the forum, or from the clubs postition where the threat of a downturn in season ticket revenue will only add to the increasing yearly deficite or the manager himself even if he doesn't read the forum I'm sure someone points out how the mood is or if he is being criticised. This then leads to pressure building up and rash decisions being made to try and satisfy those who keep moaning, this is human nature.

I don't believe anyone on here as a City fan believes what they are doing is detrimental to the club and I honestly believe that the vast majority love this club (with the exception of the odd gas infiltraitor) but some people are short sighted thinking their opinions don't cause damage to either the club or to the Chairman. As for not reading it if they don't like it then we may as well bring in censorship (if you can't say anything nice don't say anything, springs to mind) or close the forum down then there would be a hue and cry about that.

Get real people if you moan long enough and loud enough you will be noticed as many of you have stated in anti GJ or GJ out posts but when the Chairman say that his decisions and that of Gary Johnson was in some part influenced by you (hence achiving your aims) don't wash your hands of the fall out.

I've noticed a lot of former antagonists are now calling for unity a call I'd like to echo and back 100% but perhaps the next time things are going wrong at Ashton Gate or Ashton Vale you will remember your own rallying call before you pontificate about not renewing season tickets or bemoaning the club or it's manager. Now that would be unity

[Economou]

I think some people have very short memories. Just how many people were threatening to not renew their season ticket until GJ was removed? Now like Pontious Pilate are washing their hands of any responsibility. Yes this forum does have a major influance on the running of the football club especially when so many "True Fans" (as they like themselves to be known) basically state they are willing to desert the club until they are happy. Now don't get me wrong, that is their right but to then say they had nothing to do with GJ leaving the club and the chairman blowing it out of proportion does bewilder me somewhat.

Gary Johnson has had his detractors from almost day one and some such as Robbored will admit to this (and in a strange way deserve respect for this) but many on here have jumped on his bandwagon to a greater or lesser extent causing a snowball of negativity. Like a snowball every small post against the manager has been added to the one before it and although in the main a lot of these posts are only venting frustrations and the posters see no harm in that, it slowly mounts up to an overall feeling which seems to infect others thus propogating the rebellious mood. What they fail to see is their posts from a different perspective such as that of the player who read the increase in anti GJ posts and getting negative vibs from the forum, or from the clubs postition where the threat of a downturn in season ticket revenue will only add to the increasing yearly deficite or the manager himself even if he doesn't read the forum I'm sure someone points out how the mood is or if he is being criticised. This then leads to pressure building up and rash decisions being made to try and satisfy those who keep moaning, this is human nature.

I don't believe anyone on here as a City fan believes what they are doing is detrimental to the club and I honestly believe that the vast majority love this club (with the exception of the odd gas infiltraitor) but some people are short sighted thinking their opinions don't cause damage to either the club or to the Chairman. As for not reading it if they don't like it then we may as well bring in censorship (if you can't say anything nice don't say anything, springs to mind) or close the forum down then there would be a hue and cry about that.

Get real people if you moan long enough and loud enough you will be noticed as many of you have stated in anti GJ or GJ out posts but when the Chairman say that his decisions and that of Gary Johnson was in some part influenced by you (hence achiving your aims) don't wash your hands of the fall out.

I've noticed a lot of former antagonists are now calling for unity a call I'd like to echo and back 100% but perhaps the next time things are going wrong at Ashton Gate or Ashton Vale you will remember your own rallying call before you pontificate about not renewing season tickets or bemoaning the club or it's manager. Now that would be unity

What a stonkingly excellent post.

[jollycobblerred]

Glad he's come out with it to be honest. The more we get feedback on this sort of thing the better.

I wish he'd come out with this a long time ago though, rather than after the event.

I haven't read the EP thing but I guess he's talking about the few who constantly had bad things to say about GJ - often at a personal level. Of course there were many who questioned whether GJ knew 'where to go from here' and whether he knew how to turn things round (me included) - these were valid questions, but I don't think SL is referring to the majority of people who thought BCFC might need to consider a change - I hope he isn't.

I do find it sad and, if I'm honest, quite surprising that this forum has as much effect as he is inferring.

My opinion is that there will always be a minority who stoke the fire and want to stick the knife in, peddle a vendetta ...call it what you like. I can happily ignore the lot of them, but then its not directed at me I suppose.

EVERY forum in the land will always have "[insert manger here] OUT" slogans to throw around and GJ will get it when he moves to his next job.

By all means I can accept that SL made the change because the fans were unhappy, but to think that the ar*eholes who simply wanted him out, whatever happened, influenced the events of this week to a significant degree ...well ...

I truly hope that SL sees the bigger picture and doesn't lose faith in this club or its fans. There must be part of him that feels we don't deserve his efforts. For many that is probably true.

To think that SL might come to the point when he's had enough and wants to move on. Now that really worries me. Lets just have a think about that ...

couldnt agree more........... your one of the few posters to this forum that makes any sense.

[Robbored]

[Nibor]

The chairman hit out at those fans who boo and jeer at matches and also those who have been abusive on internet forums.

That's the "journalist" talking not SteveL though.

I've no wish to pick a fight with one of the silverback beasts of the forum jungle (12 000 posts for heavens sake) or his friends on here but a while back in this thread I suggested that the tone of some of the posters on this forum was macho...

The tone is something you make up for yourself when you read it and it says more about your frame of mind than mine I'm afraid - I wrote that as cheekily sardonic. Martyn Hocking is an editor and RobF (Ole) will likely know all too well I am yanking his chain.

[cheese]

Surely the point is not the making and expression of an opinion; rather it is the sheer number of people that would start multiple threads saying the same thing. Ok, you've made your point, now move on. Do we really have to wade through thousands of posts from the same people saying exactly the same as they said a few hours ago, yesterday, the day before and last week?

[numbeast]

This is not my work. It came from a part of an email that I recieved this morning. Its an interesting read I reckon.

"Gary Johnsons weakness in seeing even the most constructive of criticism as "negativity" undermined him. Those who had the temerity to disagree were dismissed as agent provocateurs who wished to undermine the club-That's just nonsense.

Someone with a different opinion isn't negative, they just have a different view to which they're entitled and for every fan that rings or texts a radio station or comments on an Internet Forum, there are hundreds, if not thousands of others that simply say nothing and walk away. Year on Year attendance have fallen by about 3,000 or around 20%. Away attendance have also reduced significantly.

The clubs habit of releasing minimal information (undisclosed transfers) means it can hardly complain when inaccurate rumours spread as fans (customers) seek to know why their players are underperforming in their eyes and the manager appears to be unable to resolve the situation.

Very few signings were as promised in our policy in being "Better than the players already here" Really, Styver, Blackman & Saborio?"

I think it goes at least part of the way to responding the SL's comments in the EP

Robbored could you get clarification on these figure because the way I read it given we are still getting crowds of 13k our initial attendances when GJ took over would have been in excess of our legal ground capacity. I think either someone is winding you up or they too are trying to exonorate themselves from any infered blame.

[Red_Chelt]

Surely the point is not the making and expression of an opinion; rather it is the sheer number of people that would start multiple threads saying the same thing. Ok, you've made your point, now move on. Do we really have to wade through thousands of posts from the same people saying exactly the same as they said a few hours ago, yesterday, the day before and last week?

It constantly amazes me that some posters have thousands of posts to their name but all they've managed to say is the same thing thing over and over.

They're the forum equivalent of the drunks down Turbo Island, muttering in to their special brew.

Still, gotta go - got a good feeling about todays game.

[red badger]

That's the "journalist" talking not SteveL though.

The tone is something you make up for yourself when you read it and it says more about your frame of mind than mine I'm afraid - I wrote that as cheekily sardonic. Martyn Hocking is an editor and RobF (Ole) will likely know all too well I am yanking his chain.

hmmm...maybe - I know Martyn and I know he's an editor and he's very good at starting an argument! I'm not sure that tone is what you make up for yourself...maybe it is...but I've long enjoyed reading this forum and if it's going to include a wider variety of views and a greater number of regular posters then folk should be thinking about how their words will be received. There's a lot of comment that ridicules positions held - and I've read lots of the "happy clapper" type dismissal and the reverse. It takes guts to write your first post, or to start a thread....

The pity - if people are put off posting - is that at its best this forum is one of the very best places to read any original writing on Bristol City. And I know you've contributed to that.

The EP is just terrible and we get so little other coverage. To take an example Ole almost invariably writes something that is worth reading...bernie from barrow gurney has made some excellent points in this thread....I'd love to read more of that and less of the yah boo sucks stuff...

[Nibor]

I'd certainly welcome more and more people posting a variety of views, especially if they are backed up with some sort of reasoning and debate - it would make the forum a much more interesting place.

[cheese]

I'd certainly welcome more and more people posting a variety of views, especially if they are backed up with some sort of reasoning and debate - it would make the forum a much more interesting place.

I would hope that was true nibor, I really would. But you do tend to be dismissive of anyone that takes a contrary view to your own. If we take you post further up this thread the following quotes are hardly likely to encourage others to debate with you:

quote out of context was a bit too much for the holier than thou types

their messiah's departure a new target is necessary

have only their own stupidity

the hypocrites on this thread

[Nibor]

I would hope that was true nibor, I really would. But you do tend to be dismissive of anyone that takes a contrary view to your own. If we take you post further up this thread the following quotes are hardly likely to encourage others to debate with you:

Cheese I'm a long way from dismissive of people who have a view and express it, you're reading in a tone which is incorrect. However I am very dismissive of people who snipe without ever taking reasoned part in a debate or expressing their own view so toddle along will you?

[Esmond Million's Bung]

and there we have it.

[cheese]

Cheese I'm a long way from dismissive of people who have a view and express it, you're reading in a tone which is incorrect. However I am very dismissive of people who snipe without ever taking reasoned part in a debate or expressing their own view so toddle along will you?

Point proven I think.

[numbeast]

I would hope that was true nibor, I really would. But you do tend to be dismissive of anyone that takes a contrary view to your own. If we take you post further up this thread the following quotes are hardly likely to encourage others to debate with you:

Cheese I'm a long way from dismissive of people who have a view and express it, you're reading in a tone which is incorrect. However I am very dismissive of people who snipe without ever taking reasoned part in a debate or expressing their own view so toddle along will you?

I think emotions are still running high and there is still a feeling of disunity, as I think these two posts reflect, which given the circumstances is only natural. But as the dust settles reasoned debate will return to this forum. I would say I'm on the losing side of things in as much as I was still behind GJ 100% but that is now inmaterial as he is no longer here. the main thing is we unite behind the club now more so than ever giving Milly and the lads total support regardless of which side of the divide you may have been on and ignoring any speculation as to the players involvment in GJ's departure, as it's them in who's hand(or feet in this case) our Championship future may well depend.

I hope we can return to reasoned debate sooner rather than later because it's that and not name calling and attacking of others with a differing view that a forum is about. And just to say finally both Cheese and Nibor are posters who's usual style is reason and I enjoy reading posts by them. Roll on the return of proper debating and harmless banter

[Im_over_ere]

As SL indicated, many on here post negativity and hide behind a username. He should openly invite those who who have so much to say and so much hatred to the Gate for discussions with players/manager/others. If BCFC cannot change those fans opinion, then he could offer rebates on season tickets and ask them not to attend any matches until things change. And as SL is the chairman, he will make the changes.

Support = something that holds the structure of the fabric together. Without support, the entity crumbles. The support must work through good and bad conditions.

Fan = something that moves a lot of air around. If a fan fails, generally it does not mean the end, it just has to be replaced.

So are the negative posters supporters or fans?

I for one am a supporter of Bristol City.