1976-1980 What Went Wrong?

[Rassy]

I just finished reading REDOXO's tribute to his Dad, and it got me thinking about the glory days of 76-80. Somebody told me in the first season, only one team outplayed City at Ashton Gate - Coventry. Somebody else said if cheesley had stayed fit, City would have won the league.

So what went wrong exactly? Was it lack of money for decent signings or bad board-room decisions?

It seems strange how they survived the notoriously difficult 2nd season and consolidated in the 3rd, only to go down in the 4th. Is there any reason for this or just a combination of different reasons?

I wasn't born til 1987...so I was wondering if the old timers could give us young'uns a history lesson.....

This might jog your memory

And this:

And this:

[chinapig]

The main reason was paying players too much and giving them long contracts. Clive Whitehead was given 11 years as we panicked after losing Gary Collier on a freedom of contract move. At one point only Liverpool and Everton had a bigger wage bill according to one of David Woods' books. So we imploded.

[Philip Belgrave]

A very good question.

"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it "

[The Casual Connoisseur]

Look at the clubs nw in financial ruin and City back then, they were ruined by financial mismanagement,

back then it was ridiculous length of contract, now it's wages, signing on fees etc.

It seems that many clubs, Cardiff, Southend, Pompey and Chester did not learn what we learned the hard way 30 years ago.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

A very good question.

"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it "

Certainly the long contracts hung over us as a financial albatross until the dark days of 82.

But as your quote says, Perhaps in hindsight Alan Dicks had shot his bolt and a new man at the helm early enough might have saved the day in more ways than one, But it would certainly have taken a brave man to make that decision.

[cityhead]

A very good question.

"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it "

Very poignant.

Footballing wise very similar to current situation. Good first season, consolidation but then too many players in comfort zone with good/long contracts and unfortunately the players brought in not as good as the ones struggling, with the exception of Hunter, but even he was in the twilight of his career.

The loss of Cheesely was a massive blow. Although we got Joe Royle in he was also close to the end of his career, provided some great memories like his debut hattrick he wasn't as good as Cheese' - it would be the same if Manpoo lost Rooney to imnjury.

[CotswoldRed]

I hear the Cheesley injury excuse come up all the time.

Its nice to think what might have been if he didn't suffer THAT injury. But we'd have imploded regardless IMO.

[megansdad]

Cheeseley's injury was a big factor in us not progresing as we might have, alomg in my view with the departure of Gary collier. cheese and Tom Ritchie had develped a great partnership and you need only watch the dvd of the Arsenal game away the first of that season when we dominated them at Highbury and Cheese out shone Malcolm McDonald on his Arsenal debut comfortably. H ewould have terrorised many top flight centre halves for sure.

[BCFChris]

Get your Dicks Out

[August West]

Clive Whitehead was given 11 years...

So Brooks & Co got off lightly...

For three years 'Bites yer Legs' marshalled our defence brilliantly. When he went off to manage Barnsley he wasn't replaced properly and relegation followed...

[Tinmansleftboot]

You're all wrong . I've always blamed Gary Johnson for the club falling through the football league like a stone in the late 70's.

[22A]

I've gone into the notes I made at the time;

For the 1979/80 season, Alan Dicks altered the team's formation from 4-3-3 to 4-4-2 to compensate for the loss of Gary Collier, Terry Cooper and especially, Norman Hunter. Results however were disappointing and relegation was always on the cards. In November, Derby who were to finish below City, came for a League match and won 2-0. They returned soon after for the F.A. Cup third round and this time City won 6-2 after Garland had grabbed a couple of early goals. In between these games, City had lost five consecutive matches ending with Aston Villa winning 3-1 at Ashton Gate at Christmas. The struggle was definitely on. On New Year's Day, Brighton came and took a 2-0 lead, but a battling performance earned a draw. In February, City won 1-0 in the return, but that was to be one of just three away wins. Afterwards skipper Geoff Merrick led the players over to salute the faithful travelling fans. City were finally relegated one April night when Everton beat Southampton 3-0. In the 42 League matches that season, they scored just 37 goals and only won six of their home games.

A fellow exiled City fan suggested to me that at the end of that 76-77 season City should have thanked Alan D for getting City promoted and then keeping them up. He should then have been given a pay off. The club should then have appointed a better manager as City was now an established 1st Division club.

[fct]

I don't accept the injury to Cheesley had anything to do with the club's slide from Division 1 to Division 4 in only 3 and a half years. Cheesley was injured on only the second match of the first season, challenging a high ball with Peter Shilton of Stoke City.

City went on to survive for 3 seasons. If Cheesley was such a factor, why did they get relegated 3 years after his injury? No, it was Gary Collier's decision to exercise his 'freedom of contract' option when it came in that year. Norman Hunter also retired from playing at the same time, thus robbing City of their defence, a facet of the team that had kept them up. Alan Dicks the manager then panicked and offered the squad long contracts. This only kicked in after the first relegation, as suddenly the club couldn't afford them. They then had to sell their best players and because they still had players on these high contracts, couldn't really afford to buy decent players.

As a result City plunged straight through divisions 2 and 3 and ended up bottom of the league only 3 1/2 years after being 6th in division 1. They were 10 minutes from folding when the Ashton Gate 8 tore up their contracts, thus releasing the club from the result of Dicks' panic reaction. City were left with what was in all honesty a bunch of YTS footballers and slowly came back from the dead.

I have memories of that season, watching the likes of Halifax, Darlington and Northampton. It was a nightmare time.

[August West]

I have memories of that season, watching the likes of Halifax, Darlington and Northampton. It was a nightmare time.

Great win at Chester though to go back up...!!

Everything has a bright side!

[grove park city]

I don't accept the injury to Cheesley had anything to do with the club's slide from Division 1 to Division 4 in only 3 and a half years. Cheesley was injured on only the second match of the first season, challenging a high ball with Peter Shilton of Stoke City.

City went on to survive for 3 seasons. If Cheesley was such a factor, why did they get relegated 3 years after his injury? No, it was Gary Collier's decision to exercise his 'freedom of contract' option when it came in that year. Norman Hunter also retired from playing at the same time, thus robbing City of their defence, a facet of the team that had kept them up. Alan Dicks the manager then panicked and offered the squad long contracts. This only kicked in after the first relegation, as suddenly the club couldn't afford them. They then had to sell their best players and because they still had players on these high contracts, couldn't really afford to buy decent players.

As a result City plunged straight through divisions 2 and 3 and ended up bottom of the league only 3 1/2 years after being 6th in division 1. They were 10 minutes from folding when the Ashton Gate 8 tore up their contracts, thus releasing the club from the result of Dicks' panic reaction. City were left with what was in all honesty a bunch of YTS footballers and slowly came back from the dead.

I have memories of that season, watching the likes of Halifax, Darlington and Northampton. It was a nightmare time.

Cheesley was one of the best forwards i ever saw play for City but one man doesn't make a team the defence graduly fell apart Collier was solid and had skill he controlled the ball and could pass it well, Geoff Merrick was a great player so much so that Arsenal wanted to buy him the team that took City up to the first is still the best most balanced squad i have ever seen at Ashton Gate .But like every good thing nothing last's forever we bought players to do a short term job . Hunter,Cormack,Royle in the long run we simply did not have the quality to go on again the reserves were simply not good enough,then because we could not buy big the debts came rolling in as the Club got Relegated and like clubs are still doing we went beyond our means.

[Rassy]

Was Harry Dolman chairman back then?

I was watching Cheesley on Youtube - reminds me of Wayne Rooney! I sometimes drink at 'The Knowle', and Paul told me he doesn't harbour any ill feelings toward Shilton. He said it was just rotten luck.

Does anybody know who the Williams Stand is named after?

[Slave to the rhythm]

Does anybody know who the Williams Stand is named after?

Des Williams, the Chairman of the club between 1982 and 1991, when he sadly passed away.

[Judge Roughneck]

Realistically, if Cheesley had not been injured, and if he had managed to prove himself at that level then he would have moved on long before 79-80.

A bigger club with more money and more trophy winning potential would have bought him, and being an ambitious football player he would have jumped at the move.

The side that got relegated in 1980 contained many of the players that came up 4 years earlier. The biggest problem was that they were 4 years older. In addition then, as now, it was difficult to entice the right quality of player to Bristol due to geographical isolation (in football terms).

What happened afterwards has been well documented elsewhere, long contracts, decreasing cashflow etc. To put inflation into context, the club was losing £4k a week at that point in time.

[Mr Popodopolous]

I was not alive then. My understanding though is that as an earlier poster said- we had the third highest wage bill in the country?? So, and although this is kind of cross topics here surely those who say Dicks did not have much money at his disposal are a tad inaccurate? However I'm not disparaging his work at all.

Generally however, I fail to see how our gates could have sustained such a wage bill in any case, what were they around the 25,000 mark?

[ralphindevon]

I don't think anything went wrong, 4 seasons in the top flight was a great achievement for a club our size.

What's gone wrong is we have never been back....................yet.

They were great times, especially for a teenager from the sticks like me, memories that will never be repeated, 40,000 packed in AG, frightening at times getting crushed on the terraces as the crowd surged forward and then catching your breath as they went back, all before Hillsbrough of course.

[Steve from Wales]

I hear the Cheesley injury excuse come up all the time.

Its nice to think what might have been if he didn't suffer THAT injury. But we'd have imploded regardless IMO.

You never seen him play then!

[Portland Bill]

One of my biggest gripes about those days was and still is, where did all our support go. Yes we did have 40,000 against liverpool,you literaly could not move. But 3 years later just 4.500 Of us were there when we were bottom of the 4th division. Im proud to say i was there at both and so should the other 4,499. Terry Cooper you deserve a statue for what you did in the early 80's.

[Paul Cheesey]

I hear the Cheesley injury excuse come up all the time.

Its nice to think what might have been if he didn't suffer THAT injury. But we'd have imploded regardless IMO.

Paul Cheesley was a legend at or club!!!! My first memory as a City fan was sitting on my old man's shoulders in the family enclosure and watching him score a header in front of the open end! (thats the Atyeo to all you young fella's) He was then my hero forever, hence the reason I adopted his name for this forum.

Not sure what effect his injury had, but no doubt we would have been better off with him fit.

[Br1stolCityBoy]

Cheesley was one of the best forwards i ever saw play for City but one man doesn't make a team the defence graduly fell apart Collier was solid and had skill he controlled the ball and could pass it well, Geoff Merrick was a great player so much so that Arsenal wanted to buy him the team that took City up to the first is still the best most balanced squad i have ever seen at Ashton Gate .But like every good thing nothing last's forever we bought players to do a short term job . Hunter,Cormack,Royle in the long run we simply did not have the quality to go on again the reserves were simply not good enough,then because we could not buy big the debts came rolling in as the Club got Relegated and like clubs are still doing we went beyond our means.

I knew most of the old players mentioned in those days as I worked in The Bell pub, Prewitt Street, by Temple Meads. It was the in pub back in the 70's and all the players used to go in there. I'm off to California for my holidays next week and Im hopefully meeting up again with Gary Collier. I will tell him he is still mentioned on here, he will love that. Gary now lives in San Diego.

[chinapig]

I knew most of the old players mentioned in those days as I worked in The Bell pub, Prewitt Street, by Temple Meads. It was the in pub back in the 70's and all the players used to go in there. I'm off to California for my holidays next week and Im hopefully meeting up again with Gary Collier. I will tell him he is still mentioned on here, he will love that. Gary now lives in San Diego.

Gary was a very fine player. A bit like Hansen in that he never seemed to have to make a tackle but came away with the ball. Remember Don Revie tried to sign him when he was 18. I don't think it is far fetched to say that if that had happened he may have got international recognition. As it was the arrival of Hunter and Dicks' preference for Dave Rodgers led to him leaving. He should have done better than Coventry though.

[chinapig]

Realistically, if Cheesley had not been injured, and if he had managed to prove himself at that level then he would have moved on long before 79-80.

A bigger club with more money and more trophy winning potential would have bought him, and being an ambitious football player he would have jumped at the move.

The side that got relegated in 1980 contained many of the players that came up 4 years earlier. The biggest problem was that they were 4 years older. In addition then, as now, it was difficult to entice the right quality of player to Bristol due to geographical isolation (in football terms).

What happened afterwards has been well documented elsewhere, long contracts, decreasing cashflow etc. To put inflation into context, the club was losing £4k a week at that point in time.

Probably right. At that point he was a better player than Paul Mariner imo.

[22A]

One of my biggest gripes about those days was and still is, where did all our support go. Yes we did have 40,000 against liverpool,you literaly could not move. But 3 years later just 4.500 Of us were there when we were bottom of the 4th division.

The final Div 3 game before dropping into the 4th div was home to Chester (who actually managed to finish beneath City). The attendance was 3,200. To me those were the true die hards.

[Br1stolCityBoy]

Gary was a very fine player. A bit like Hansen in that he never seemed to have to make a tackle but came away with the ball. Remember Don Revie tried to sign him when he was 18. I don't think it is far fetched to say that if that had happened he may have got international recognition. As it was the arrival of Hunter and Dicks' preference for Dave Rodgers led to him leaving. He should have done better than Coventry though.

He was a fine player and I think I'm correct in saying he was the first player to be transfered under the Bosnan ruling. I remember we never got very much out of the deal with Coventry. He never seemed to make it at Coventry, they signed Gillesbie about the same time, who then went on to Liverpool a few years later.