Gerrard

[Portland Bill]

He must be the most overhyped over rated player ever. Premier league player yes, international player NO.

[Jordan Tansley]

twice the player lampard is.

[Spud55]

He must be the most overhyped over rated player ever. Premier league player yes, international player NO.

He's been vastly superior to Rooney who has been shown up for what he is. Would look an absolute joke alongside the likes of Messi, Higuain, Ronaldo et all.

[Portland Bill]

Im talking about gerrard, hes the problem. Just what does he provide for England other than running around a lot. When you see the midfield players in other teams you see technique,guile and vision. We have none.

[Bubble]

Bill are you for real?

The one player who can seriously change a game and you question? someone said above twice lampard, i agree! if they both have to play shuve lampard out on the left! jeez our best player over 2 games u cane???

[II Wurzel II]

Whats wrong with Gerrard...he's our leading goalscorer

[fka dagest]

Gerard to me always seems beyond criticism. If he has a bad game which he regualrly does, he's always 'played out of position' or something else. He never seems to be blamed for anything.

I have doubts about his leadership. I don't recall him waving his fist at anyone to spur them on or taking someone aside fro a word.

Having said that, he was far from our worst player last night and at times at least tried to make somehting happen.

[Alex_BCFC]

He had an average game last time yet was probably our best player on the night which says it all. He looked like the only one capable of creating anything but is way past his best and not getting any younger.

Lampard however has been annoymous. Why can't we see him like he plays for Chelski.

[The Casual Connoisseur]

Lampard is awful, goes to show how good the players around him must be for Chelsea really, as he simply can't do it for England.

[simon uk]

It's not a question of Lampard v Gerrard.

It's a question of whether England has genuine world class players - and the answer has to be a resounding NO.

The mark of a true world class player is one who performs on the world stage at the big events, and Rooney, Gerrard and Lampard have never done that and don't look anywhere near doing it this time round. They are Premier League hype, safe and comfortable in that environment - take them out of it and they can't compete with the best. Yes, the friendlies are a laugh and a chance to have a bit of fun, and the qualifiers against Andorra and the like are a chance to have a strut, and the odd good performance against the likes of Croatia adds to the myth.

But the bottom line is that they have no bottle or appetite for the really big stage, the really big games where they have to stand up and be counted - never mind the ineptitude of the manager, they are supposed to be professionals with pride in their own performance. Do they have that ? Do they ****. They are shallow and they don't give a toss - they think they do but they aren't in the real world.

They are nowhere near the technical standard or professionalism of some of the worlds great players - light years away from them in every respect.

agree 100% with all that! I was sat with my mate watching last night, and he is always super positive, which is great, but he was saying things like "the premier league is the best in the world, and we have the best players" I could barely stop laughing! We have no players who would get into the Brazil, Spain, Argentina team, the only solace is that france and probably Italy are even worse than us.

It has got to the state that our multi millionare players have to beat slovenia, and hardly anyone in this country thinks they can do it!

[Portland Bill]

Bill are you for real?

The one player who can seriously change a game and you question? someone said above twice lampard, i agree! if they both have to play shuve lampard out on the left! jeez our best player over 2 games u cane???

100% REAL, please, please, if you get the chance sit down and re watch these 2 games. Turn the sound off so you dont hear the commentator hyping him up and just watch what Gerrard ACTUALLY does when he has the ball. First half last night, touched the ball about 9 times gave it away 7 times, one shot into row z and a left footed cross which went 20 yards past his intented target.

It makes my blood boil how over hyped he is, we have Carrick who plays with Rooney every week and supplies him with chance after chance week after week, but we insist on playing Gerrard who is out of his depth in International football.

Forget the hype, just use your own eyes and you will see what i mean.

[Steve from Wales]

I feel all posts are missing the real issue, that of the managers stance. Psychologically he is destroying each and every member of the squad by his tactic of informing players of selection (or not) at the last moment. It's a little like GJ replacing Basso at one stage the season before last, ruining his and our then second goalkeepers confidence by them both being constantly under threat of last minute replacement and therefore frightened into making errors, (and I did say a little like).

The initial team selection from those in the squad should also be called into question. Heskey should should be confined to the hotel, as we have to accept he is in S. Africa, the hotel remains his best position. Pensioner James selection is just a joke. Ferdinand's injury was a stroke of luck. Why Cole is not playing or was not at least the first replacement last night is beyond belief. As for those fine Chelsea, Liverpool and other Premier League players mentioned in prior posts their class should not need to be questioned. Indeed when allowed to play in the role in which they shine a difference began to come through in the latter stages last night.

The players have a look of concern which is normally attributed to those in conflict with their manager, again a little like city last season. I have no confidence in a foreigner managing the national side, we are after England!

These are my opinions to which I am entitled. My last opinion is we can still do it even if the wrong players are in S. Africa and the wrong team is selected, my one remaining concern is that damn foreigner!

CABANGA ENGLAND!

[Portland Bill]

It's not a question of Lampard v Gerrard.

It's a question of whether England has genuine world class players - and the answer has to be a resounding NO.

The mark of a true world class player is one who performs on the world stage at the big events, and Rooney, Gerrard and Lampard have never done that and don't look anywhere near doing it this time round. They are Premier League hype, safe and comfortable in that environment - take them out of it and they can't compete with the best. Yes, the friendlies are a laugh and a chance to have a bit of fun, and the qualifiers against Andorra and the like are a chance to have a strut, and the odd good performance against the likes of Croatia adds to the myth.

But the bottom line is that they have no bottle or appetite for the really big stage, the really big games where they have to stand up and be counted - never mind the ineptitude of the manager, they are supposed to be professionals with pride in their own performance. Do they have that ? Do they ****. They are shallow and they don't give a toss - they think they do but they aren't in the real world.

They are nowhere near the technical standard or professionalism of some of the worlds great players - light years away from them in every respect.

Spot on, take there foreign club team mates away from them who carry them week after week and we now see just how good they arent.

The rest of the world are laughing at us.

£100,0000 a week and they cant even pass and control the ball properly

[Portland Bill]

I feel all posts are missing the real issue, that of the managers stance. Psychologically he is destroying each and every member of the squad by his tactic of informing players of selection (or not) at the last moment. It's a little like GJ replacing Basso at one stage the season before last, ruining his and our then second goalkeepers confidence by them both being constantly under threat of last minute replacement and therefore frightened into making errors, (and I did say a little like).

The initial team selection from those in the squad should also be called into question. Heskey should should be confined to the hotel, as we have to accept he is in S. Africa, the hotel remains his best position. Pensioner James selection is just a joke. Ferdinand's injury was a stroke of luck. Why Cole is not playing or was not at least the first replacement last night is beyond belief. As for those fine Chelsea, Liverpool and other Premier League players mentioned in prior posts their class should not need to be questioned. Indeed when allowed to play in the role in which they shine a difference began to come through in the latter stages last night.

The players have a look of concern which is normally attributed to those in conflict with their manager, again a little like city last season. I have no confidence in a foreigner managing the national side, we are after England!

These are my opinions to which I am entitled. My last opinion is we can still do it even if the wrong players are in S. Africa and the wrong team is selected, my one remaining concern is that damn foreigner!

CABANGA ENGLAND!

Capello is a proven club manager, the difference is that a club manager can sign players, he has to try and get a team out of the few Englishmen who play in the £££ league (the prem). Its not his fault there not very good.

As for you stating Joe Cole should be playing, well he cant even get in his club side, are we getting like Wales and Scotland by having to play players that arent good enough for there clubs?

[Alex_BCFC]

Lampard is awful, goes to show how good the players around him must be for Chelsea really, as he simply can't do it for England.

A player that scores more than 20 goals from midfield every season for about the last 5 seasons clearly isn't awful. Even when Chelsea were not winning titles he was delivering and Mourinho rates him big time which says a lot to me.

This all points to the fact that something is clearly wrong with England not Lampard. No manager seems to be able to get the best out of him (and a lot of our other top players) when they play for England.

[WellRedPhil]

Lampard and Gerrard are both fantastic club players who for whatever reason just cannot do it for England. Lampard has had a superb season, yet you put him in an England shirt and he's like a different player. Poor on the ball, no vision, a lack of confidence. I really thought Capello had solved this problem in the first period of his reign, but even he's lost it. I was worried by our friendly performances and never really thought we had any chance of winning it, but to have performed this badly is a joke.

[The Casual Connoisseur]

Sorry I should have said awful for England, he's brilliant for Chelsea going forward, where he doesn't have to track back and put tackles in etc, unfortunately no one seems to have told him he's playing for England and his role is different, if he's that great a player he should be able to adapt, which he hasn't, not just last night but in his whole England career he has been largely ineffectual, he seems to have exceled in a postion that ChelseA and in particular Mourinho had made for him, that position is obviously a little different to that of his position in the England team.

[redredrobin21]

Lampard and Gerrard are both fantastic club players who for whatever reason just cannot do it for England. Lampard has had a superb season, yet you put him in an England shirt and he's like a different player. Poor on the ball, no vision, a lack of confidence. I really thought Capello had solved this problem in the first period of his reign, but even he's lost it. I was worried by our friendly performances and never really thought we had any chance of winning it, but to have performed this badly is a joke.

Do you remember what had been told about Messi and Ronaldo a few weeks ago? Their supporters had been disappointed by their performance within the national team whereas they are considered as some of the best players in the world.

Even good players have difficulties to perform. 2 matchs are not enough to change top players into average ones

[marshy]

, if he's that great a player he should be able to adapt, which he hasn't, .

So if we ask Rooney to play at CB or A Cole to play up front they should be able to adapt ? The truth of the matter is that Lampard is a tremendous goal-scoring midfielder as his record with the Premier League champions testifies. If we wanted him to play as a tough tackling defensive midfielder then we would have been better off bringing Scott Parker along ( they would both be in my squad by the way). If you select a player on the basis of what they achieve with their clubs then surely that is what you should expect them to for the national team. I am a great admirer of the way that Lampard times his forward runs when playing for Chelsea, the important point being that he can go when he sees fit, he doesn't have to be constantly looking behind him to see if cover is there-he knows it will be. He can play with a greater freedom if you like than he is allowed with England. The posters on this thread saying he is an awful player are wide of the mark as I see it, but we will only get the best from him if he can play in a role that approximates the one he has for his club.

[WellRedPhil]

Do you remember what had been told about Messi and Ronaldo a few weeks ago? Their supporters had been disappointed by their performance within the national team whereas they are considered as some of the best players in the world.

Even good players have difficulties to perform. 2 matchs are not enough to change top players into average ones

Oh yeah you are right Lampard and Gerrard have never underperformed for England before these 2 matches. Are you serious? Lampard has NEVER shown his Chelsea form in an England shirt and he flops at every major tournament. Can you not remember how bad he was in 2006? Likewise Gerrard has never been the same player for England as he was for Liverpool bar the odd game so god knows what you're talking about, or have you only started watching England since the world cup started?

[redredrobin21]

Oh yeah you are right Lampard and Gerrard have never underperformed for England before these 2 matches. Are you serious? Lampard has NEVER shown his Chelsea form in an England shirt and he flops at every major tournament. Can you not remember how bad he was in 2006? Likewise Gerrard has never been the same player for England as he was for Liverpool bar the odd game so god knows what you're talking about, or have you only started watching England since the world cup started?

Even if they are unable to adapt themselves to the national team, it cannot be said that they are bad players. That's what I meant.

They are screwing up this part of their job, are not able to adapt themselves to new plays and team mates, but this problem can be resolved - Some other teams did it. It's just too late for this competition. Anyway, their play is not that bad when they are wearing the national shirt, but of course it's easier to remember bad performances than good plays.

As the author of this World Cup blog article I was hopping that England would have players to lead the team. ok I was wrong.

[WellRedPhil]

Even if they are unable to adapt themselves to the national team, it cannot be said that they are bad players. That's what I meant.

They are screwing up this part of their job, are not able to adapt themselves to new plays and team mates, but this problem can be resolved - Some other teams did it. It's just too late for this competition. Anyway, their play is not that bad when they are wearing the national shirt, but of course it's easier to remember bad performances than good plays.

As the author of this World Cup blog article I was hopping that England would have players to lead the team. ok I was wrong.

I never said they were bad players! Did you even read my post?! I actually complimented Lampard saying he's a fantastic player in the PL however he is just not the same player for England. I'm not saying he is atrocious every game, what I'm saying is that his standard of play for England is rarely as good as it is for Chelsea, and he does always seem to flop big tournaments. Can you remember how bad he was in 2006? I'm pretty sure he broke a record for the most shots at a finals without a goal!

[MATT BCFC]

The media seem to think iif you have a few good games against Hull, Pompey, Bolton, etc then you are a 'world class' player. The truth is none of the England players have ever done anything of note against real quality opposition and when the pressure is really on!

[WellRedPhil]

The media seem to think iif you have a few good games against Hull, Pompey, Bolton, etc then you are a 'world class' player. The truth is none of the England players have ever done anything of note against real quality opposition and when the pressure is really on!

Do you mean for their club or country? Because evidently they have for their club.

[InCider]

He must be the most overhyped over rated player ever. Premier league player yes, international player NO.

I thought he was outstanding today, despite not playing in his preferred position. I'm not sure what you have against him. He would get into any team in the World. Hell, I've even seen Xavi give the ball away countless times in Barca games last season. No-one's perfect! Why try and make Gerrard a scapegoat, when there are plenty of England players who under-performed in the first couple of games? You could be in danger of becoming the new Robbored, but with criticism of Gerrard rather than Johnson. Are Man U your second team by any chance?

[redredrobin21]

Did you even read my post?!

I did... I was just taking in consideration some other posts I had read earlier.

Finally to talk about the topic, I'd like to see Gerrard in another position during this WC. I'm pretty sure that, in anoter role, with another way to manage the team on the field, he could be really awesome with the national team!

[Portland Bill]

I thought he was outstanding today, despite not playing in his preferred position. I'm not sure what you have against him. He would get into any team in the World. Hell, I've even seen Xavi give the ball away countless times in Barca games last season. No-one's perfect! Why try and make Gerrard a scapegoat, when there are plenty of England players who under-performed in the first couple of games? You could be in danger of becoming the new Robbored, but with criticism of Gerrard rather than Johnson. Are Man U your second team by any chance?

Firstly i dont have a "second" team. , You assume because i dont rate Gerrard i like his rival team:yawn: get real.

Its getting like the Evander Sno situation with Gerrard, people always making excuses for him about playing in the wrong position etc etc, a top class player midfielder would be able to adapt to anywhere in midfield.

My problem with Gerrard is the amount of times he gives the ball away. He did it countless times again yesterday and against better teams they will punish us. If you want to be blinkered and only comment on the times he does well than thats up to you, but i would prefer a someone who gets at least 80% of his passes ok than Gerrard who is on about 50%.

And if you want to call me the new Robbered go ahead, i dont really give a fudge. Its my opinion.

[Riaz]

If Gerrard is an average player, why are real madrid after him portland?

Last season they signed Ronaldo - now Gerrard in one of their main targets - they go after world class players

Steven Gerrard is world class.

[Portland Bill]

If Gerrard is an average player, why are real madrid after him portland?

Last season they signed Ronaldo - now Gerrard in one of their main targets - they go after world class players

Steven Gerrard is world class.

As i said before, Premier League player not international player.

World class is for players who can dictate International games, he cant.

Its paper talk re Real Madrid, the spanish league is about keeping the ball, which Gerrard doesnt do.

Gerrard may be fine on a wet tuesday night against Wigan but that is far far away from playing International football

.

[SimplyRed]

In my opinion, the English game lost ground on its Euorpean neighbours when we were banned from European football for 5 years after Heysel in 1985.

Continental sides have always been more technical than us, but the gap widened after 1985 and we're still playing catchup today.

The Premier League is suited to the British style of football which is all about pace and strength. Top British teams/players always struggle against the technically gifted continental and South American sides - they like to play the game at a slower tempo and use the ball. For me, this is the reason why top British players cannot seem to reproduce their club form internationally.

The most technically gifted British players can't seem to handle the pressure - Best, Marsh, Bowles, George, Hoddle and Gascoigne come immediately to mind - and all received a tough time from the media. The only other one I can think of that didn't fit the mould and thus didnt even feature much internationally was Le Tissier.

The FA must take the blame for this in their coaching methods - technically gifted players are not nurtured as they should be and all coaching is geared to the British style. Believe me, if you want to play for England Schoolboys these days, the prime requirements are that you are barrel-chested, tall and can run fast!

If British teams are to triumph on the world stage they MUST force the pace of the game and not allow the continental teams to dictate - pressure the ball! Problem is, in so many World Cups the temperature is a factor and the British style does not lend itself to running around a lot in the hot sun. However, this time the temperature is more 'British' and there is no excuse for not trying to inject some pace into England's games.

The only way we'll really become a world force again is to play them at their own game and develop players who are comfortable on the ball.

Gerrard, Rooney and co are only wanted by the likes of Real Madrid and Barcelona purely BECAUSE it gives an extra dimension to their style of play - the pace and strength of the British style.

If you remain objective and look closely at the England squad, who is there among them that you can say are truly technically-gifted? Players like Rooney, Gerrard and Lampard are technically gifted from a British viewpoint, but simply not in the same league as players such as Messi, Ronaldo, Kaka, Iniesta, Villa and so on.

Personally, I wouldn't say any English squad member could be mentioned in the same breath as those foreign players I've just mentioned above.

However, I do think we have at least one world class player. Like him or loathe him, I think Ashley Cole is one of the top 3 left backs in the world and would get into my "World squad".