England Vs Germany

[Gazred]

Bull crap, the 3 group games were against crap opposition, The minute we came up against a half tidy side we were shown up for the crap overpaid cowards we actually are, Just thank god we were'nt playing against Argentina it would have been a cricket score, Check my responses about Englands defence, I always thought we looked dodgy at the back from day one.

Exactly.

We were awful at the back the whole tournament, blind luck when Altidore hit the post and crap opposition is why we didn't concede more than 1 goal...

Today we were truly awful against no more than a half decent team...No bottle no pace no wit no wisdom no central defence scared full backs poser midfield and a barely served forward line...

Terry was taken to bits by speed and workrate the guy just looked ****** by the 60th minute Upson is just crap

I'm not sure what some people think but our players were found out to be the over paid over hyped wasters that we expect... England Expects Its Posers to Get Thrashed by a team on a 10th of the wages but with 100x the heart...They were hungry we were not!

Congratulations Germany you made your country proud!!! Good Luck for the rest of the competition

Ok so where do England rank in the world now then...10th, 15th...20th? Over paid? Yes. Overated? Certainly, but they still underperformed, you can be as vicious towards them as you like but in my opinion they were more than capable of walking that group and putting up a better performance against Germany, not saying we would of beat them, just not been embarrased by them the way we were. England dont have shit players, they have players that played shit.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Ok so where do England rank in the world now then...10th, 15th...20th? Over paid? Yes. Overated? Certainly, but they still underperformed, you can be as vicious towards them as you like but in my opinion they were more than capable of walking that group and putting up a better performance against Germany, not saying we would of beat them, just not been embarrased by them the way we were. England dont have shit players, they have players that played shit.

Forget his mistake Green is not international class, Johnson started off ok but as the tournament went on proved he is not good enough, Upson not international class, Defoe is not international class. Lennon is not international class.

SWP is shite, Heskey is shite.

of our so called best players, Terry is not the player he once was in fact a liability at times, Gerrard had one reasonable game and then got worse the longer the tournament went on, Lampard was awful but as Gerrard got worse he slightly improved, So what does that tell us about Gerrard and Lampard um let me think perhaps they can't play together, Rooney was pathetic.

Taking King was a piss poor decision. it was a pathetic disaster and the bull crap now is coming from all the ex pros who call themselves pundits, 'of course the players care, of course their hurting', i'm sorry that dosen't wash with me anymore, The performances tell me a different story.

The truth is the fans and the media were up in arms over Beckanbauers so called slurs about the English teams performances and our kick and rush style he was vilified, Well he was very perceptive and 100% correct, it was kick and rush and it is also true that many of Englands squad of players are carried week in week out by the foreign team mates at club level.

[Gazred]

Forget his mistake Green is not international class, Johnson started off ok but as the tournament went on proved he is not good enough, Upson not international class, Defoe is not international class. Lennon is not international class.

SWP is shite, Heskey is shite.

of our so called best players, Terry is not the player he once was in fact a liability at times, Gerrard had one reasonable game and then got worse the longer the tournament went on, Lampard was awful but as Gerrard got worse he slightly improved, So what does that tell us about Gerrard and Lampard um let me think perhaps they can't play together, Rooney was pathetic.

Taking King was a piss poor decision. it was a pathetic disaster and the bull crap now is coming from all the ex pros who call themselves pundits, 'of course the players care, of course their hurting', i'm sorry that dosen't wash with me anymore, The performances tell me a different story.

The truth is the fans and the media were up in arms over Beckanbauers so called slurs about the English teams performances and our kick and rush style he was vilified, Well he was very perceptive and 100% correct, it was kick and rush and it is also true that many of Englands squad of players are carried week in week out by the foreign team mates at club level.

Oh i agree, we certainly took some players that would have had to have played above and beyond there ability to make an impression at this level, the likes SWP, Heskey, Upson as you mention. King was a massive gamble, but then he wouldn't of even been playing had Ferdinand been fit. I still believe the spine of the team, the likes of Terry, Lampard and Gerrard have massively underachieved in thier England careers. Rooney was probably the most shocking of all, i dont think many would argue that he is international class, but something wasn't right there at all he looked a total shadow of the player we see in the Prem and Champs League.

I think the manager is as much to blame, i always thought your built you teams around your best player, that should be Rooney but it appears to me Capello tried to build a team around his best system not his best players, regardless of being international class or not, its all he had to choose from. For every 30 seconds of decent passing and movement you got another 10 mins of mediocrity and that just doesnt cut it at this level.

Certainly enjoyed watching the likes of Mexico, Ghana and Chile more this world up rather than what that lot just served up.

Anyone heard Waddles rant yet? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/world_cup_2010/8767443.stm

[Riaz]

We we're never going to be the germans.

If you watched both teams group games - It would have been obvious.

[marshy]

Anyone heard Waddles rant yet? http://news.bbc.co.u...010/8767443.stm

That sounded like me after thegame! Apart from the Geordie accent.

The FA should have a plaque on the front door stating 'the buck stops here'. I still find it hard to believe they were so stupid as to enter into contract negotiations with Capello before the tournament began and now it's going to cost a packet to get rid of him, as they surely must.

[Riaz]

That sounded like me after thegame! Apart from the Geordie accent.

The FA should have a plaque on the front door stating 'the buck stops here'. I still find it hard to believe they were so stupid as to enter into contract negotiations with Capello before the tournament began and now it's going to cost a packet to get rid of him, as they surely must.

get rid of one of the best managers in the world?

yeah, cos he's the problem I suppose - not our fantastic players who usually deliver.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

get rid of one of the best managers in the world?

yeah, cos he's the problem I suppose - not our fantastic players who usually deliver.

One of the best managers in the world whose only plan B was Heskey or SWP, Who took those 2 crap players in his squad and took Lennon ahead of Walcott and originally took 4 injured players (one a virtual cripple).

[Riaz]

One of the best managers in the world whose only plan B was Heskey or SWP, Who took those 2 crap players in his squad and took Lennon ahead of Walcott and originally took 4 injured players (one a virtual cripple).

Heskey is one of our best forwards (shows the lack of talent) - and SWP was in better form than Walcott.

Lennon was a must in the squad after his performances for spurs last season.

Capello can only work with the players he's got - and they aint good enough.

[marshy]

get rid of one of the best managers in the world?

yeah, cos he's the problem I suppose - not our fantastic players who usually deliver.

Sorry Riaz, I really can't agree with you on this. Maybe once upon a time he might have been one of the best managers in the world but it is obvious that he has made a considerable number of errors of judgement with regard to squad selection, team selection and tactics, many of which are well argued on several threads. Several of our fantastic players who you rightly and sarcastically deride should not even have been in the squad in my opinion. As Alf Ramsey said to Jack Charlton when big Jack queried his own right to a place in the team-'Jack, I don't always pick the best players'. And while I'm on the subject of '66 I can't help thinking of Nobby Stiles who died recently. How we could have done with a defensive midfielder like him on the pitch instead of us being so open and easy to play through-now who decided that we could take the field against the USA with two attacking midfielders in the centre? and against Germany without a terrier to afford some protection for our dismal back four?

[Riaz]

Sorry Riaz, I really can't agree with you on this. Maybe once upon a time he might have been one of the best managers in the world but it is obvious that he has made a considerable number of errors of judgement with regard to squad selection, team selection and tactics, many of which are well argued on several threads. Several of our fantastic players who you rightly and sarcastically deride should not even have been in the squad in my opinion. As Alf Ramsey said to Jack Charlton when big Jack queried his own right to a place in the team-'Jack, I don't always pick the best players'. And while I'm on the subject of '66 I can't help thinking of Nobby Stiles who died recently. How we could have done with a defensive midfielder like him on the pitch instead of us being so open and easy to play through-now who decided that we could take the field against the USA with two attacking midfielders in the centre? and against Germany without a terrier to afford some protection for our dismal back four?

So England fail at every major tournement - we employ a world class manager - we fail again - but its not players, its the manager (who rarely fails)

ps I dont think Nobby Stiles has died

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Heskey is one of our best forwards (shows the lack of talent) - and SWP was in better form than Walcott.

Lennon was a must in the squad after his performances for spurs last season.

Capello can only work with the players he's got - and they aint good enough.

OK I give in let's build our team for the euros around Heskey (one of best forwards), SWP (who is in better form than Walcott) and Lennon (cos he's had a few good games for Spurs), My god I bet the Germans are already bricking it.

[Riaz]

OK I give in let's build our team for the euros around Heskey (one of best forwards), SWP (who is in better form than Walcott) and Lennon (cos he's had a few good games for Spurs), My god I bet the Germans are already bricking it.

Heskey & SWP are nowhere near the level required I admit - but are you seriously suggesting that lennon should'nt have made the squad??

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Heskey & SWP are nowhere near the level required I admit - but are you seriously suggesting that lennon should'nt have made the squad??

Absolutely he is lightweight, He is a coward in the tackle and had only just come back from a season long injury, Walcott had at least 2 months fitness over Lennon and would been a far better choice, it was another mistake in a catalogue of mistakes by the coach before and during the competition.

[Riaz]

Absolutely he is lightweight, He is a coward in the tackle and had only just come back from a season long injury, Walcott had at least 2 months fitness over Lennon and would been a far better choice, it was another mistake in a catalogue of mistakes by the coach before and during the competition.

Dont ever get into football management.

Walcott was rightly left out - he was in terrible form.

Lennon has been outstanding for spurs, one of the best wingers in the prem last season and was rightly included in the squad...... Its shocking that you think otherwise.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Dont ever get into football management.

Walcott was rightly left out - he was in terrible form.

Lennon has been outstanding for spurs, one of the best wingers in the prem last season and was rightly included in the squad...... Its shocking that you think otherwise.

i've been involved in football and a coward is a coward, However in this instance he was in good company with other cowards.

[WellRedPhil]

Lennon should've been in the squad, but there's no way in a million years SWP should've been picked over Walcott. There is not one thing he can do better than Walcott and even if Walcott had not been playing particularly well he was still far better than SWP. But that's not the point. I agree with Riaz to the extent that our 'stars' have flopped again. They have bottled it on the biggest stage and have never truly stepped up and showed themselves to be of international class when wearing the English shirt. SSN reported earlier that Rooney has been dispossessed more than any other player this tournament, this from what was supposed to be our talisman, and one of the world's greatest talents.

That being said, Capello showed tactical flaws, there was no Plan B, he relied on 4-4-2 and when that didn't work we just stood around looking clueless. He sent Heskey on when we needed goals and SWP was preferred to Joe Cole, presumably as Capello thought he was the right man to unlock defences. Why?! In the build up to the tournament there were already worrying signs. The re-call of Carragher and what appeared a desperate phone call to Paul Scholes, a veteran who had played no part in our impressive qualification, to come out of retirement. All this from the so-called steely man who would not change his views.

God knows where we can go now. We need an overhaul, we MUST start developing new talent and we MUST introduce our young guns to international football earlier. We have to progress, as right now we are lagging seriously behind other footballing nations, despite having the 'best' and most competitive league in the world.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Can't argue with the Lennon or Walcott over SWP argument to be honest, I would have rather gone one player light than took SWP at all, He is shocking.

[SimplyRed]

...We need an overhaul, we MUST start developing new talent and we MUST introduce our young guns to international football earlier. We have to progress, as right now we are lagging seriously behind other footballing nations, despite having the 'best' and most competitive league in the world...

Perhaps it is because we have the "best and most competivive league in the world" that we find ourselves in this situation nationally? The powers that be are too busy lapping up the money being thrown at the Premier League to be interested or care about the state of the national team.

You're right we need an overhaul, but it needs to be an overhaul of the lumbering giant that is the FA, whose faux pas over the past decade or two have been unforgivable and testament to the state of the British game right now.

I said in another post - we WILL NOT win the World Cup playing the British game - our grassroots and coaching manuals need to emphasise technique and passing, not strength and pace.

[marshy]

ps I dont think Nobby Stiles has died

Thanks for that, the Mrs told me the other day that he'd died. Apparently it was a mild stroke.

Still don't agree with you about Capello though. Mind you I will never accept that we should have anyone but an Englishman in charge of our national team.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Perhaps it is because we have the "best and most competivive league in the world" that we find ourselves in this situation nationally? The powers that be are too busy lapping up the money being thrown at the Premier League to be interested or care about the state of the national team.

You're right we need an overhaul, but it needs to be an overhaul of the lumbering giant that is the FA, whose faux pas over the past decade or two have been unforgivable and testament to the state of the British game right now.

I said in another post - we WILL NOT win the World Cup playing the British game - our grassroots and coaching manuals need to emphasise technique and passing, not strength and pace.

Top post, Look at any FA, GFA, Somerset FA and even FIFA most of the most important posts are held by people who have never played the game and make ridiculous decisions without thinking about them properly and the impact that they have at any level. They are there because of all of the black money floating around, use our ball (1 mill in the swiss account), use our kit (another 1 mill in the swiss account) let us be the official sponser (another 1 mill in the swiss account).

The corruption within the game is there for all to see, A no mark pundit like Robbie Earle get's given 400 tickets and gives them to his ticket tout best mate and then apparently claims he did'nt know what business his best mate was in, The question is if a no mark like Earle can get his hands on 400 tickets, How many more no marks got their hands on these tickets and more than 400 i bet.

With the FA it's the prem and **** the rest of you.

[WellRedPhil]

Perhaps it is because we have the "best and most competivive league in the world" that we find ourselves in this situation nationally? The powers that be are too busy lapping up the money being thrown at the Premier League to be interested or care about the state of the national team.

You're right we need an overhaul, but it needs to be an overhaul of the lumbering giant that is the FA, whose faux pas over the past decade or two have been unforgivable and testament to the state of the British game right now.

I said in another post - we WILL NOT win the World Cup playing the British game - our grassroots and coaching manuals need to emphasise technique and passing, not strength and pace.

Oh I completely agree. What I was trying to say was that despite having this 'superior' league we are lagging behind, because of the reasons that you've stated. Maybe I didn't quite make that clear enough. We have to focus on breeding new talent and it's ridiculous that we do not have a homegrown quota in place. I think this inquest could go on for a very long time, because there's a hell of a lot that needs fixing, and I honestly don't think that that's a knee-jerk reaction.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

The biggest test of a great squad is looking at the quality of the bench and my god our bench looked like the bar scene from Star Wars, it was pathetic and last night when 3-1 down and needing 2 goals quickly what was the best we could summon up, A bloke who could'nt or has'nt scored in an international brothel or a prem brothel probably all year.

Holland take off Van Persie and replace him with Huuntlaar, Says it all really.

and for the record I understand about the argument about the spine of the team Terry, Rooney, But how much longer are we going to have the Gerrard and Lampard cannot play in the same team debate, This is the 3rd world cup and it has failed in all 3, How many more coaches are going to try to make it work?.

[The Batman]

The biggest test of a great squad is looking at the quality of the bench and my god our bench looked like the bar scene from Star Wars, it was pathetic and last night when 3-1 down and needing 2 goals quickly what was the best we could summon up, A bloke who could'nt or has'nt scored in an international brothel or a prem brothel probably all year.

Holland take off Van Persie and replace him with Huuntlaar, Says it all really.

and for the record I understand about the argument about the spine of the team Terry, Rooney, But how much longer are we going to have the Gerrard and Lampard cannot play in the same team debate, This is the 3rd world cup and it has failed in all 3, How many more coaches are going to try to make it work?.

also, they're playing 2 holding midfielders so snejder, van persie, kuyt and robben can destroy the opposition.

heaven forbid we do something like that.

[Gazred]

Greece have won more silverware than England in the last 44 years, its just pathetic...oh wait a min we did win Le Tournoi!

[Esmond Million's Bung]

Come on guys let's be honest here, Why are most of the worlds best players in the prem.

is it the British weather?.

is it the gridlocked road system?.

is it the fear of being robbed in your own home or on night on the town?.

is it our quaint custom of watching teenagers drinking until they vomit?.

is it the hope of picking up spit roasting a blonde scouse wag with your mates, Before marrying her?.

No boys it's none of them it's the M O N E Y, Nothing more and nothing less, How many of these great players will actually live out their days living in the UK???????????, Prem clubs pay more than most other clubs in world football and that's why they are here.

[WellRedPhil]

Come on guys let's be honest here, Why are most of the worlds best players in the prem.

is it the British weather?.

is it the gridlocked road system?.

is it the fear of being robbed in your own home or on night on the town?.

is it our quaint custom of watching teenagers drinking until they vomit?.

is it the hope of picking up spit roasting a blonde scouse wag with your mates, Before marrying her?.

No boys it's none of them it's the M O N E Y, Nothing more and nothing less, How many of these great players will actually live out their days living in the UK???????????, Prem clubs pay more than most other clubs in world football and that's why they are here.

It's not just the wages, we do have the most competitive and highest standard league in the world, although the Spanish La Liga has been of a high quality the last few seasons. However, just because our league is of a good standard the F.A seem to assume this means our national team, will also be of a high standard, and that is of course nonsense.

[Esmond Million's Bung]

It's not just the wages, we do have the most competitive and highest standard league in the world, although the Spanish La Liga has been of a high quality the last few seasons. However, just because our league is of a good standard the F.A seem to assume this means our national team, will also be of a high standard, and that is of course nonsense.

i'm sorry actually I think it is the money, Most of the players could'nt give a toss about the competitive league.

[yardy]

Right,my rant now...

So the "golden generation" have failed again,its hard to know where to start.

The FA have proved yet again what a bunch of incompetent prats they are.Giving crappelo a new contract before the World cup is insane and has alot to do with how poorly we played.I doubt if fabio is losing much sleep knowing that he has atleast 2 years of his contract to go(does he really give a sh** about england?)Seems as if all pundits and press want cappelo to resign but why would he resign and walk away from over £10million!

The players didnt seem to want to play for or even like the manager,its about time we get a british manager that actually knows the english game and knows how to get the best out of our players..hi harry redknapp.

Some of the players that was picked for the squad was a joke but it also shows the lack of talent we have to choose from.

We need to get back to basics like pass and move football played by spain,brazil,holland and barcelona its something we all had drummed into as kids when we was learning to play,how hard can it be to pass the ball 4 or 5 times to your team mates,instead of hoofing the ball down the middle for a big fella to hold up.Could you imagine heskey playing for spain!

It seems we can only play 1 way too (4,4,2) which at this level is a joke,we need to be able to change formations and be comfortable with it.Football has changed so much over the last 20 years that a 4,4,2 system is just to predictable.We need to choose a formation that enables our best players to play to their full potential.I think we should of played a 4,2,3,1 system,2 holding/defensive midfielders which would give the chance for our full backs to attack down the wings,3 in midfield with 1 playing just behind rooney.I would also play gerrard in the defensive midfielder role where he would see alot of the ball and control games from there.Unfortunatly we haven't got another world class striker to play alongside rooney thats why i have 1 up front.

Out of all the squad there isn't many players that are worthy of wearing the england shirt after this,maybe only a.cole,gerrard and rooney!

Also i dont think germany are that good its just we was pathetic!

Roll on the new season for city!!

CTID

[REDOXO]

Ok so where do England rank in the world now then...10th, 15th...20th? Over paid? Yes. Overated? Certainly, but they still underperformed, you can be as vicious towards them as you like but in my opinion they were more than capable of walking that group and putting up a better performance against Germany, not saying we would of beat them, just not been embarrased by them the way we were. England dont have shit players, they have players that played shit.

Vicious mmm. England are the oldest team at the final. The players were not strong enough to cope and the fact is most of them are not that good 'anymore'. (if they ever were)

This is the biggest tournament in the world and yet our players could not get up for it.

Your rational states that "England dont have shit players, they have players that played shit"...Well Sir I would say to that "If you cant get up for the World Cup then you are not good enough for that level" simple.

[Gazred]

Your rational states that "England dont have shit players, they have players that played shit"...Well Sir I would say to that "If you cant get up for the World Cup then you are not good enough for that level" simple.

I kind of agree, if by that you mean thier psychological failings. This last generation (10 years) has clearly underachieved, i dont buy into this whole "golden generation" nonsense but the players have had the ability and not used it in my opinon rather than not had it at all to begin with.

I wonder if somehow this is part of it: Dunning-Kruger effect